1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: Now, the long awaited findings and recommendations following an almost 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 1: three year inquiry into the twenty nineteen police shooting of 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: Kumenjai Walker were handed down by the Northern Territory Coroner yesterday. 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: Nineteen year old Walker was fatally shot by then NT 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: Police Constable Zachary Rolf during an attempt at arrest in 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: the remote community. Now, because mister Walker died in custody, 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: his death was subject to a mandatory coronial inquest under 8 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: NT law. The inquiry, conducted by the NT Coroner, Elizabeth Armitage, 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: heard from more than seventy witnesses over sixty six sitting 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: days across almost three years. Now joining me on the 11 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: line to talk more about this situation is well the 12 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: journalist who's been covering it right from the start. ABC 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: journalist Melissa McKay. 14 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, mel Good morning, Katie. 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 3: Great to have you on the show. It's been a 16 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 3: busy time. I'm for you, mel teller. 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: Yesterday, when the coroner handed down her findings, what did 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: she have to say about Komenjai Walker. 19 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: She had a lot to say in those findings and recommendations, Katie. 20 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 2: She spoke for about an hour and that was just 21 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: a summary of her six hundred and thirty eight page report. 22 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 2: In relation to Kumenjai Walker specifically, the coroner made a 23 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 2: number of findings in relation to Hugh's upbringing and his 24 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: early years, finding that he was a vulnerable teenager, that 25 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 2: his life had sort of been plagued by poverty and 26 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 2: health issues, that he'd struggled to cope at school because 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: of his disabilities. He was deaf in one ear and 28 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: likely born with foodo alcoholspex from disorder. She found that 29 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: between the age of thirteen and eighteen, Kumunjai Walker had 30 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: spent on average more than half of each year under 31 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: some form of restraints in relation to the justice system. 32 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 2: He was in and out of youth detention and had 33 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: was either under bail or a court order or in 34 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: prison for much of his young, sort of teenage years, 35 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: and that you know, she was looking at how to 36 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 2: sort of really prevent young people in un degree from 37 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: ending up on that path in the first place. 38 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: Well, I'll get to some of those findings shortly, But 39 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: what did she have to say about former Constable Zachary 40 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: Rolf and his attitude? 41 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 2: The coroner was pretty scathing of former Constable Zachary Rolf. 42 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: She made findings in relation to his attitude. She found 43 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 2: that he was a racist, that he made flawed decisions, 44 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: he had little regard for safety and thought policing. Theron 45 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 2: found specifically in relation to the night that Puman die 46 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: Walker was shot, that it was a case of officer 47 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 2: induced jeopardy, that mister Rolph had made flawed decisions in 48 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:16,399 Speaker 2: the lead up to that incident, which sort of contributed 49 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 2: to the to the scuffle that they that mister Rolf 50 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 2: and Pullman Guy Walker were in during that attempt at arrest, 51 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: which obviously ended in mister Rolph firing his block three times. 52 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: She also made some findings in relation to his earlier 53 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: behavior as a police officer. She said that he was 54 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: a very junior officer, he'd only been on the force 55 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: for a little under four years, and that he had 56 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: used unnecessary force on at least five occasions on earlier arrests, 57 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: the coroner found, and she also sort of laid blame 58 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: on the police force as a whole for not raining. 59 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: Rules, he said, and there were allegations, of course, of 60 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: racist awards made during the inquest. What did the coroner 61 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: find in relation to racism. 62 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: The coroner found that there was evidence of systemic institutional 63 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 2: racism within the Northern Territory Police Force and particularly within 64 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: the Alice Springs Police Station at the time that Zachary 65 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 2: Rolf was working there. You would remember, Katie, there was 66 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: a lot of evidence around text messages being shared between 67 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: police officers, including very senior police using using racial slurs 68 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 2: and making comments sort of degrading Aboriginal people. In relation 69 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 2: to those awards that you specify, the coroner said that 70 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: they were a grotesque example of the racism that she 71 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: found existed within the Northern Territory Police Force, and she 72 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 2: found that the fact that nobody reported those awards as 73 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: they were being handed out, she said, was clear evidence 74 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: of entrenched, systemic and structural racism within the Northern Territory 75 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 2: Police Force. I will add though, she did also make 76 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: it quite clear that many of the police officers that 77 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 2: did give evidence to this very long running inquiry impressed her. 78 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: She said that she found that many of them were 79 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: curious and culturally sensitive officers who had dedicated their lives 80 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: to serving largely Aboriginal communities within the NT. 81 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 3: Well. 82 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: Looking at those recommendations, there were thirty two of them, 83 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: what were the ones that relate to the Northern Territory. 84 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:44,239 Speaker 2: Police specifically for the Northern Territory Police Force. The Coroner 85 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: has made a number of recommendations I can't remember these 86 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 2: that figure related to the Anti Police, but she has 87 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 2: broadly urged for change in relation to their recruitment and training, 88 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 2: particularly when it comes to the recruitment of police officers 89 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 2: from the ADF. We know that Zachary Rolf was among 90 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 2: those officers who had joined the Anti Police force from 91 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 2: the military. She's also asked that the racism strategy, which 92 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: we know the Anti Police says it's working on. She's 93 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: asked that the made public and another interesting finding of 94 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: recommendation in relation to the police that she's made is 95 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 2: around guns in communities. We've been hearing from Kumenjay Walker's 96 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: family and community over the last few years that they 97 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: want to see police not carrying weapons in the community. 98 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 2: The Coroner didn't go so far as to recommend that 99 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: police not carry guns at all in the community. She 100 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: recognized the need for them, but she has encouraged conversations 101 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: between leaders in Yundamu and the police force around whether 102 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 2: there are times that it is appropriate for police to 103 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: be carrying their guns intommunity and mel I. 104 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: Know the Northern Territory Police have responded. Has the Police 105 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: Commissioner come out and spoken yet or is it just 106 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:12,679 Speaker 1: a statement that has been issued. 107 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: It's just this statement that has been issued by the 108 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: Northern Territory Police Force saying obviously you know that they 109 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: need some time to take in these recommendations and that 110 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: of course there has been changes made within the police 111 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 2: force over the last six years. But we haven't yet 112 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: heard personally from the Acting Commissioner, Martin Dole. 113 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: Now I understand I thought the coroner was due to 114 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: also speak again today, but is that the case. 115 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: No, No, it's not. I think there has been some 116 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 2: confusion around that. But no, the coroner is not expected 117 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: to continue speaking at all today. She came in yesterday, 118 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: delivered her findings and left pretty swiftly. She didn't sit 119 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 2: around to chat with anyone. And my understanding is that, yeah, 120 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 2: she was heading straight back to Alice Springs and I 121 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: presume back to Darwin. 122 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 3: Well, what were some of the other key takeaways. 123 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: I know that there had been certainly some recommendations for 124 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: INNT health as well. 125 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, they have around n TEA health. The coroner has 126 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: recommended that they improved their screening processes for young people 127 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: in remote communities around disability and trying to pick up 128 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: some of those issues that Kumenji Walker has as a 129 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: young person, so she's made recommendations around that. She's also 130 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: made some recommendations around the processes for anti health when 131 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: nurses evacuate remote communities. We know in this case, the 132 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: nurses had evacuatedous hours before Kumaji Walker was shot because 133 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 2: their houses had been broken into and they were scared, 134 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 2: and the coroner recognized that in her finding. She didn't 135 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: make any criticisms of the nurses and of the health 136 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 2: departments for with gloring those nurses for their safety, but 137 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: that she's recommended that there be some better conversations around 138 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 2: when that happened so that the community is more aware 139 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 2: of when and why that's happening. 140 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: If you have just joined us, we are speaking to 141 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: Melissa McKay, ABC reporter who has certainly been covering this 142 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: situation well. 143 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 3: For a number of years now. 144 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: What was the reaction from the family in you and 145 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: demou yesterday, Katie. 146 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 2: It was a really strange feeling. When the coroner finished 147 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: speaking yesterday here in Judmu. There was quite a huge 148 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: gathering in the community when the coroner spoke, and there 149 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 2: was members of the DMO community, but also a large 150 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: contingent of police, lawyers, government staff and of course media 151 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: as well. It was really quiet when the coroner sort 152 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: of finished speaking. It was almost as if everyone sort 153 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: of didn't really know how to respond, didn't really know 154 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: what to do, and the family was very quiet and 155 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 2: and sort of reserve taking all of this in. We 156 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 2: spoke briefly with senior Elder Ned Jampans of the hard 157 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 2: Graves yesterday afternoon. They didn't have much to say around 158 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 2: the findings and recommendations yet no one really at that 159 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: point had had a real chance to actually read through 160 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: them and take them in. So we're hoping that we 161 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: will hear the more today. Mister Hargraves did, however, also 162 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: raise some issues with the acting police Commissioners and said 163 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 2: that he wanted to speak with him after the findings 164 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 2: had been handed down, but the commissioner left pretty swiftly 165 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 2: after these findings were handed down as well. He said 166 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 2: he wanted to, you know, let the community have their 167 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 2: space to take in this report, and. 168 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 3: I think that's fair enough for everybody. 169 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot of there is a lot 170 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: to sort of you know, to get through a lot 171 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: of information there for everybody to take in. Well, are 172 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: there time frames for any of those recommendations. 173 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: No, The thing with with coronial recommendations, Katie, is that 174 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 2: they're not they're not legally binding. So it'll it'll be 175 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 2: up to the Northern Territory government and the police force 176 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: as well, I suppose to decide how they how they 177 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 2: take on these findings and recommendations, whether they choose to 178 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: enact any of them is so, how many and in 179 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 2: what time frame they do that. We haven't really heard 180 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: sort of any commitments from from any party yet around 181 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 2: which which recommendations they except we've just heard from the 182 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 2: CLP government they just sense for a statement saying that 183 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 2: they welcome the conclusion of this process but that they 184 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 2: will now take the time to consider the findings and 185 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: recommendations and noting that much has changed over the last 186 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 2: six years since Kumanjai Walker died. 187 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: Well, Melissa McKay from the ABC, it is always good 188 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: to catch up with you, g You've been busy mate, 189 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: It's been a. 190 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 3: Busy time for you. Several years of being busy. 191 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 2: Absolutely has Yeah, this has been a very long time 192 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: coming for a lot of people involved. 193 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: To ye yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, we appreciate your time 194 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: this morning. You know you've done a lot of hard 195 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: work in this space. Really appreciate you taking the time 196 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: to have a chat with us and to our listeners 197 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: this morning. 198 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 3: Thank you mate, Thank you