WEBVTT - BONUS EP - Change the date with Karla Grant 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.400 Hi guys, and a'll welcome back to a very very 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:25.040 special little bonus episode of Life on Cut. 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.720 I'm Laura and I'm Brittany. And Laura does often say 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:31.040 that we do very special bonus episodes is one of 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.920 her favorite lines. But she's right, this is a very 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.680 special little bonus episode coming to you on your Wednesday. 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:39.839 I mean, to be fair, I actually do think that 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:41.879 all of our bonus episodes are special, but this is 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.640 a particularly special bonus. Fair they are, but this is 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:46.800 like a special special bonus episode. 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:48.519 Well, I mean, you guys are all very aware with 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:50.120 what day it is, and that's why we want to 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.279 do whom you are anyway, I mean, it's a Wednesday, 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:54.800 but also it is Australia Day, a day that is 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:56.760 known for many different names. Now it is known as 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.640 Invasion Day, it is also known as Survival Day. And 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.960 we are seeing increasingly so many conversations around change the dates, 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:06.360 something that Britain and I both are in full support of, 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:08.840 and we wanted to create this episode and give our 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.640 platform to somebody from the Indigenous community to be able 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.039 to have a conversation around Australia Day and around changing 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:17.320 the date. We are so excited to sit down with 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.920 Carla Grant today. Carla Grant has had thirty years in 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.880 the media landscape. She is a proud Indigenous woman from 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.840 Arna Country, and she speaks openly about her own experiences 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.360 and also the reasons that she feels that Australia Day 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:32.240 should change the date. 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.039 The only reason I have gotten to the point of 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.080 saying that I think the date should be changed is 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.280 from having these conversations and from listening to people like 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:43.440 Carla speak and tell her own experiences. It's one thing 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:45.800 to read it, but when you actually have the conversations, 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.560 it really really makes you reconsider your thoughts. 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.880 Well, it's education and awareness, right. We speak about it 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.520 actually in the chat with Carla, this whole idea that 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:55.600 you know, when we were in our early twenties, when 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.400 we were fifteen, we were sitting around during the hottest 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.400 one hundred, and I think over time there has been 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.040 so much more awareness around the conversations and so much 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.919 more awareness around why that is so problematic, this whole 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.720 celebration on a day that actually marginalizes our First Nations people. 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.040 But before we get color on, I just want to 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.560 give you a quick little rundown of who she is. 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.720 Carla has dedicated such a huge part of her career 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.760 to working in Indigenous news and current affairs, witnessing and 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.840 reporting on the shifts in policy towards Aboriginal and Torres 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:28.120 Strait Islanders. Like Laura said, she's been thirty years. 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.520 In the industry. She's an absolute veteran, but eighteen years 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:35.519 of those were presenting and producing a show called Living Black. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.520 Now Living Black is Australia's longest running Indigenous current affairs 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.760 TV program. This just further demonstrates her absolute commitment to 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.480 giving Indigenous people a voice. So we just thought, what 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.560 a great person to join us on Life Uncut today, Cayla, 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.359 Welcome to Life Uncut. Before we get into the episode, 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:55.240 we would love to start with a welcome to country. 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:59.000 Firstly, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.560 land that I'm on. I'm on beautiful Gadigaul Country which 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.640 is part of the Eora Nation, and I'd like to 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:09.359 pay my respects to their elders, past, present and emerging. 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.960 And I'd also like to acknowledge the lands wherever you 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:16.240 are listening to us today as well and pay my 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.840 respects to their elders. Past, present and emerging as well. 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.680 Karla, can you tell us a little bit about your country, 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.200 where you grew up and what your childhood was like. 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.200 Well, basically I was born and raised in Adelaide. So 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.799 my grandparents they are actually from the Northern Territory and 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:37.160 my grandfather's from Adelaide River area, which is sort of 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:42.160 going closer up to Darwin. And my grandmother was from Hermansburg, 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.400 so western aar Into country. When they got together, they 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.080 moved down to South Australia and they had my mum 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:50.840 in Udna Dada, a little town on the way to Adelaide. 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.920 It's somewhere near Kooper Peedee, I think around those parts. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.200 And my mom and my auntie and uncles were raised 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.640 in Adelaide, and so my met my dad in Adelaide, 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.400 a Dutchman in the sixties, and so I was born 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:06.200 in Adelaide. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.640 How did your parents how did your dad a Dutchman 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.480 and your mother here an Australian. How did they meet? 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:13.080 Do they have like what's their story? 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.800 Yeah, Well, it's a really interesting story actually because it 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.480 was in the sixties and of course, you know, interracial 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.880 marriages wasn't really the dune thing during that time. So 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.200 my dad came out to Australia when he was thirteen. 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.880 His mum was a Dutch Jew and of course during 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.560 the Second World War she was sort of hiding underground 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:39.000 with the kids, with my dad and my aunties and uncle. Anyway, 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.480 I get her and her husband decided, you know, we 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.360 need to leave Holland and they came to Australia on 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:49.400 a boat and ended up settling in Adelaide. And yeah, 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.280 so my mum and dad met when they were in 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.400 their twenties. They actually made headlines. They were in the 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:59.279 Adelaide Advertiser and the headline was migrant Mary's Native girl. 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.520 Oh wow, So I've actually got those clippings as well. 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.200 I've managed to find them when I've done some research 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:06.960 on my family. 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.480 That's such an incredible story and was the headline in 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:12.120 the paper. Like, oh my god, I could do a 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.600 whole other podcast on just your dad. Now, the story 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.919 or dad coming over and the dad is not what 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.280 we're interviewing, but we're very interested, but it is. Actually 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.839 it is actually such an incredible story. I mean, even 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.240 your dad being part of that and remembering being in 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.479 hiding and then having to leave flee to Australia and 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.920 then meeting your mum and then making the headluts. But 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:33.400 with the headlines in support of or were they in 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.760 shock of an interracial relationship or what was the tone 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:37.920 behind the headlines? 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.600 It wasn't negative, I mean even though I mean if 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.200 we saw those headlines now, everyone would be like, oh 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.040 my god, you can't say things like that and like 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.840 a migrant marrying a Native girl. But at the time 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.279 it wasn't the done thing. I think it was quite 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.839 supportive of them getting engaged in getting married. 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.080 They would never even make a headline. But it's crazy 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.520 that then the fact that a couple were dating and 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.320 engaging together makes the headlines. It just shows you how 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.440 far we have come in such a little amount of time, 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:07.680 but obviously we still have a very long way to go. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.560 What was the passion for writing and journalism? Where did 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:12.200 that come from it? And what did you want from that? 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:16.040 Yeah? Well, I think growing up in Adelaide, I always 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.240 had a strong sense of social justice because I was 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.760 basically the only Aboriginal kid at my school and I 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:24.760 used to get picked on all the time. There was 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.680 a lot of racism. Be called every name under the sun, 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.080 Abbo Cone boom. You know, I don't go near her. 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.400 The black might rub off all that sort of stuff. 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:37.160 It was really awful. It was very traumatizing actually, and 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:39.640 I didn't want to go to school, but my mum 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.200 forced me, and so did my grandfather. So I didn't 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:43.920 want to go to school, but Grandpa said, you get 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.760 to stay at school, get this good education, and Mum 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.000 would say you to go to school. So, you know, 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.560 I stuck it out. But yeah, it wasn't pleasant experiencing 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.200 that racism at school and also seeing the way my 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.080 uncles were treated. They used to get picked up by 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.360 the cops quite regularly just for walking along the street, 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.039 just because they you know, for the color of their skin, 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.960 just because they're black. They just get picked up, taken 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:12.680 into custody for no reason at all, treated terribly. So 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:14.560 I saw a lot of that, And police used to 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:16.960 come to our house as well, knocking on the door 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.520 looking for them if they might have had a warrant 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:24.920 out just for unpaid fines, just very petty things like that. 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:26.680 I sort of saw a lot of that when I 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.680 was growing up, so I just thought, no, things have 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.280 got to change. Yeah, I knew that I wanted to 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.520 be a part of making change for my family and 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:38.880 for my people and community. So that's what drove me 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.840 to wanting to become a journalist because I thought, if 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:45.080 I can get into journalism, then I can write about 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:50.560 these injustices and change attitudes and change things. So yeah, 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:52.480 I wanted to be a part of change. 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.200 It's just something that we can never fathom because we 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.840 didn't have to experience it. And there's a very large 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.360 portion of Australia that I think we'll never ever be 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.360 able to understand as much as we're trying. But you've 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.840 done your studies. What was your first job coming out 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.480 of university? Like, how did you get to where you 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:11.120 are now? 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.280 Well, it was a long road. It wasn't easy and 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.880 it took some time to get into the industry. So 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.880 I was studying and then I did some work experience 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:24.440 at an organization called the Aboriginal Development Commission. So it 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:28.960 was an indigenous organization to help Aboriginal people get funding 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:32.760 for businesses and housing and things like that. So they 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.640 had a public relations area and I just sort of 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.800 said can I come and do some work experience and 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:39.920 they said yes. I went there for a month and 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.760 wrote a few articles after that. Yeah, I tried for 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.440 some cadet ships as well. I remember I applied with 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.800 the Adelaide Advertiser for a cadet ship there and I 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:54.240 didn't get it, and I wanted to know why. The 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.559 reason they gave was she looks pretty, but would she 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.760 be able to communicate? And I'm Aboriginal. Wow, I thought 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.400 I might be able to communicate properly or speak English 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.920 or something ridiculous. Work at the Aboriginal Development Commission, worked 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:13.040 for Susan Ryan. Then I got into public service, and 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.240 at that time I was also doing a radio program, 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:19.280 an Aboriginal radio program, so it all kind of started 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.160 from there. And yeah, so from there I learned my 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.640 craft really, and then in ninety five I went to 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.679 work for SBS. I went to work on a program 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:33.360 called IICAM, the Indigenous Cultural affairs magazine program. That was 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.400 sort of the start of my career in television really, 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.000 and I've been with them ever since. I think this 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.880 year must be my twenty seventh year at SBS. And 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.480 then I created Living Black, the concept for that, in 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:50.600 two thousand and three, and I've been fronting that and 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:52.000 producing that ever since. 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.560 Color one thing that you mentioned, and something that seems 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.120 to have come up in your early life. And I'm 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.240 wondering whether it's something that you have I've still experienced 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.440 now or whether the flavorite has changed throughout your life. 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:07.600 But you mentioned in school you experienced racism, and then 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.240 when you were trying to get into the workforce that 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:13.080 you experienced racism. What has your experience been throughout the 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:14.080 rest of your life. 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:19.080 I've still experienced racism, so, which is unfortunate. Even a 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.760 couple of years ago. It was about two or three 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.320 years ago, I was in Alice Springs. I was shooting 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:28.240 a documentary there. We'd finished filming for the day and 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.719 so my producer and I. My producer is a non 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:34.560 Indigenous older man, and we were going to have dinner 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.320 after the shoot. So he and I just went to 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.000 the local liquor store to get a bottle of wine, 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:42.360 own a couple of beers and take to the restaurant. 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.679 And soon as I walked in that liquor store, there 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.520 was a police officer. They've got a special name, but 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.200 they stand at the front of the entrance of the 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.800 alcohol the grog shop. They pulled people up and they 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.920 pulled me up straight away and asked for my id 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.360 where I was staying. They wanted to see the hotel 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:04.120 key they wanted to see, and I didn't even have 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:06.280 any ID on me because I left it all in 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:10.599 the hotel room. And straight away I was racially profiled. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.040 And my producer was saying, we're here. We're just getting 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:15.920 a bottle of wine and a couple of beers to 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.840 take to a restaurant where we're having dinner. I was 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.120 harassed basically for wanting to know where I was taking 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.880 that alcohol. They said, do you know that it's illegal 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.480 to take any alcohol to restricted areas? And I said, yes, 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.840 I'm well aware of that. I know what the restrictions 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.640 are here, you know, in certain parts of communities in 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.800 the Northern Territory. And that's a regular thing. It's a 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:41.440 regular occurrence for our people. So I'm still facing racism 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:42.120 to this day. 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.600 It must make you so furious, also annoying that, like 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.320 if you're walking into that situation and being racially profiled, 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.320 like what chance does anybody else have? It must just 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.559 be such obviously you see it all the time, but 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.719 it must just be such a reinforcing eye opener of 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.520 what everybody else in that community is going through and 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.199 what everybody else in that community is subject to. When 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.000 the role was created, when you started being the presenter 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.240 on Living Black, what was the reasoning behind And I 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:11.320 mean I know the reasoning, but I mean, more so, like, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.200 what was the real drive for creating a current affairs 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.560 and news program that's solely focused on Indigenous affairs and 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:18.600 Indigenous issues? 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.360 The main reason for it is to bring Indigenous issues 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:26.040 to the forefront because on commercial television, we don't really 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:29.120 see these issues being covered. If we do see an 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.600 Indigenous story on a news bulletin or on a current 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:37.439 affairs program, it's usually something negative. So all my life 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.920 that's what I've wanted to change. That's been a driving 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.319 sort of thing for me, so we can create more 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.400 awareness and understanding and change attitudes. 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.280 Do you think stereotypes, which are like very long standing 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:56.120 stereotypes are contributing and still contributing to the perception around 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:57.120 Indigenous issues. 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.679 Yeah, I think there are still a lot of stereo 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.560 typical sort of attitudes that people have. I mean, you know, 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.520 things are changing, but we do still have a long 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:08.640 way to go. But I know from when I was 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.240 growing up, there's a lot more education around our history 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.400 and the true history of this country. I mean when 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.960 I went to school, all I was taught was, you know, 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:21.400 Captain Cook discovered Australia. Original people roamed around the countryside. 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.880 We were just savages. We have come a long way, 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:25.959 I think since then, and that is it. 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.839 We have just seen a huge shift in the conversations 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:33.120 people having around equality and Indigenous issues surrounding January twenty sixth, 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.679 Survival Day, Invasion Day, Australia Day. There are many names 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.120 that we have for it. What are your thoughts on 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.160 Australia Day. I guess the name of Australia Day, the 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.640 idea of the date moving because I feel like the 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.079 majority of people now people are wanting to move away 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.559 from the name and from the date. What are your 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:51.120 thoughts on this? 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:56.080 Well, Australia Day. I've never ever celebrated. That was just 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.280 another day for us in my household and my community. 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:01.800 I actually get quite anxious when it comes up to 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.560 Australia Day. I just think about history and I think 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:10.880 about what my ancestors went through because the day represents colonizations, 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.600 the day when the first fleet came and invaded this country. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.640 It's the day that we were dispossessed of our land. 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.000 We were told not to speak our language or practice 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:25.480 our culture. There were massacres. What it represents, it's horrific 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:29.000 and it's traumatizing, and it's quite a very painful day 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.120 for many First Nations people. There has been a lot 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.240 of discussion over the last five years, I guess about 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.240 changing the date. It's gained a lot of momentum and 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.760 I think the feeling is that we do want to 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.960 celebrate on a day, but not that day. There's been 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:46.560 a lot of discussion about moving that date and having 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:50.200 it on another day where everyone can celebrate both First 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:54.680 Nations people, you know, non Indigenous people and Indigenous Australians together. 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.520 When I think back to when I was a teenager, 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:00.880 I'm not proud of it, but the ignor pearance was 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:04.560 beyond Like I think back to celebrating Australi Day as 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:06.600 a teenager and when I was really young. For me 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:08.600 and I think for a lot of people, I didn't 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.920 actually think about what I was celebrating as a teenager. 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.160 I thought, oh, it's a public holiday. I don't go 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.440 to school today or totally, or I don't go to 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.360 work today or there was no education around what we 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.720 were celebrating. It was literally just oh, it's a day 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:22.960 off that we can go and meet our friends. And 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:24.920 again something I'm not proud of, but I think it 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.160 was a lack of education and a lack of understanding 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.000 and a lack of conversations. People just weren't having them. 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.320 But even on top of that, it wasn't just a 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:34.840 lack of understanding, like it happened from top down, Like 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:36.760 you know we had Hottest one hundred, Triple J. It 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.200 was like the media were telling you it's a day 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:41.120 to celebrate, it's a day to have a party. And 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:43.240 I think not only have we seen the shift in 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.160 attitudes in our own social groups, but obviously with Triple 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.120 J changing the day of the Hottest one hundred, that 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.520 was huge for them. When I think that not only 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.480 are those attitudes shifting socially, it's also shifting on a 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:54.400 higher level as well. 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.240 But is there a name or a date that you 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.640 would see fit for the new we sh Australia Day. 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.200 Well, there's been lots of suggestions I think being thrown 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:09.040 around about possibly during NATO in July, where we celebrate 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.360 our nation. It's still being debated and there's a lot 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.640 more discussion that needs to happen. I guess it's up 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.240 to the government as to what happens and if the 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.440 day is actually changed. 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.280 What do you think of like people who have the 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:26.480 mentality around wanting to have a day to celebrate but 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.840 thinking that like Australia Day or wanting to keep the 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.120 day purely to be able to like be like, well, 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:33.960 you know, this is what the country is now, and 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:35.760 we shall just get over it and get on with it. 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.160 What would you want to say in response to that. 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.960 Well, it's pretty hard to sort of get over what 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.880 happened back in seventeen eighty eight to say, you know, 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.040 just to get over it and move on. And people 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.360 were massacred, women and children were rape. What that day 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:56.000 represents is horrific for us. What happened that day has 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.520 now had a flow on effect. And I know that 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.440 you've talked about intergenerational trauma on your program before, and 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:06.320 that's what's happened from colonization on woods has had a 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.280 massive flow on effect to our people today. 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.560 The term invasion day. Can you just describe You just 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.520 touched on it then, but can you just describe to 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.320 people that don't know why it's called invasion Day and 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:19.360 what actually happened. 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.440 For many Indigenous Australians, it's called invasion Day. It's also 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.360 called survival Day as well. We refer to it as 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.080 a couple of different things. But invasion Day basically means 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.800 that that was the day that the first fleet arrived, 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.960 and it was the day the ships came in, they 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:40.200 planted the flag and they invaded this country. They took 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.640 over without even speaking to First Nations people. They called 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.200 it Terranalius, like no man's land. They said, no one 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.640 lived here. But of course Indigenous Australians have been here 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.920 for sixty thousand years and more. It's the oldest living, 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:58.960 surviving culture in the world. Or without even negotiating a treaty, 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.800 we're the only country part of the Commonwealth that doesn't 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.480 have a treaty with its First Nations people. They have 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:09.080 a treaty with New Zealand, Maori's there with First Nations 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:13.120 people in Canada, but no treaty here in Australia. And 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:15.919 we're still fighting for that now and still trying to 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.040 get a treaty or treaties for all our different nations. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.520 What does it mean to have a treaty put in place. 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:24.680 It would mean that we would have a seat at 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.160 the table in terms of determining our own affairs, because 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.400 that's what Aboriginal people want. We want a seat at 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.359 that table to be able to determine what happens in 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.720 our future, to determine our policies and solutions for the 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.040 issues that we face, because that's what we want. We 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.960 want self determination. We don't want welfare. We don't want 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.800 the government telling us what to do. We don't We're 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.240 sick of that top down approach. You know, people in 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.880 Canberra telling us what to do when they don't even 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.880 know what it's like in a remote community. They've never 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.239 been there. How would they know what the people are 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:57.120 facing out there. 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:59.840 As a non Indigenous person coming up to a stra 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.280 Day or it being Australia Day when this podcast is released, 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.880 what can we do to better support the Indigenous community. 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.760 I mean, there's a number of events that are being 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.960 held around the country. Hopefully they're still going to be held, 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.840 depending on we're obviously still going through a pandemic. Go 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.480 along and show your support. There's also ways of logging 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.639 onto things online as well, so that people can educate 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.240 themselves about what this day means and what it represents 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.399 for First Nations people. There's a lot of stuff that 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.639 you can watch on NITV as well, a lot of 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:37.399 documentaries and news and current affairs programs. So it's just 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:39.639 really getting out there and showing your support. 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.360 I do feel that so much of the younger generation 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.560 is far more adopting of the conversation around change the date. 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:48.960 I know that, like our generation, people who are social 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:53.400 media savvy, people who are absorbing current news, have had 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.800 a far more positive reaction to it. I've had some 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.960 interesting conversations in my own family with people who oppose 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.159 the day change. How would you suggest somebody who maybe 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.359 their parents, or they have people in their family or 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.920 older people relatives who are very in opposition to change 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:12.480 the data, or are very in opposition to these conversations, 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:14.800 how would you suggest that they approach that or go 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.960 about starting these conversations in their household to try and 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:19.159 enact some change. 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.520 You can start a conversation with talking about what this 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:27.320 day represents too Indigenous Australians and maybe tune into the 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.919