Speaker 1: Hi guys, and a'll welcome back to a very very
Speaker 1: special little bonus episode of Life on Cut.
Speaker 2: I'm Laura and I'm Brittany. And Laura does often say
Speaker 2: that we do very special bonus episodes is one of
Speaker 2: her favorite lines. But she's right, this is a very
Speaker 2: special little bonus episode coming to you on your Wednesday.
Speaker 2: I mean, to be fair, I actually do think that
Speaker 2: all of our bonus episodes are special, but this is
Speaker 2: a particularly special bonus. Fair they are, but this is
Speaker 2: like a special special bonus episode.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you guys are all very aware with
Speaker 1: what day it is, and that's why we want to
Speaker 1: do whom you are anyway, I mean, it's a Wednesday,
Speaker 1: but also it is Australia Day, a day that is
Speaker 1: known for many different names. Now it is known as
Speaker 1: Invasion Day, it is also known as Survival Day. And
Speaker 1: we are seeing increasingly so many conversations around change the dates,
Speaker 1: something that Britain and I both are in full support of,
Speaker 1: and we wanted to create this episode and give our
Speaker 1: platform to somebody from the Indigenous community to be able
Speaker 1: to have a conversation around Australia Day and around changing
Speaker 1: the date. We are so excited to sit down with
Speaker 1: Carla Grant today. Carla Grant has had thirty years in
Speaker 1: the media landscape. She is a proud Indigenous woman from
Speaker 1: Arna Country, and she speaks openly about her own experiences
Speaker 1: and also the reasons that she feels that Australia Day
Speaker 1: should change the date.
Speaker 2: The only reason I have gotten to the point of
Speaker 2: saying that I think the date should be changed is
Speaker 2: from having these conversations and from listening to people like
Speaker 2: Carla speak and tell her own experiences. It's one thing
Speaker 2: to read it, but when you actually have the conversations,
Speaker 2: it really really makes you reconsider your thoughts.
Speaker 1: Well, it's education and awareness, right. We speak about it
Speaker 1: actually in the chat with Carla, this whole idea that
Speaker 1: you know, when we were in our early twenties, when
Speaker 1: we were fifteen, we were sitting around during the hottest
Speaker 1: one hundred, and I think over time there has been
Speaker 1: so much more awareness around the conversations and so much
Speaker 1: more awareness around why that is so problematic, this whole
Speaker 1: celebration on a day that actually marginalizes our First Nations people.
Speaker 1: But before we get color on, I just want to
Speaker 1: give you a quick little rundown of who she is.
Speaker 1: Carla has dedicated such a huge part of her career
Speaker 1: to working in Indigenous news and current affairs, witnessing and
Speaker 1: reporting on the shifts in policy towards Aboriginal and Torres
Speaker 1: Strait Islanders. Like Laura said, she's been thirty years.
Speaker 2: In the industry. She's an absolute veteran, but eighteen years
Speaker 2: of those were presenting and producing a show called Living Black.
Speaker 2: Now Living Black is Australia's longest running Indigenous current affairs
Speaker 2: TV program. This just further demonstrates her absolute commitment to
Speaker 2: giving Indigenous people a voice. So we just thought, what
Speaker 2: a great person to join us on Life Uncut today, Cayla,
Speaker 2: Welcome to Life Uncut. Before we get into the episode,
Speaker 2: we would love to start with a welcome to country.
Speaker 3: Firstly, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the
Speaker 3: land that I'm on. I'm on beautiful Gadigaul Country which
Speaker 3: is part of the Eora Nation, and I'd like to
Speaker 3: pay my respects to their elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 3: And I'd also like to acknowledge the lands wherever you
Speaker 3: are listening to us today as well and pay my
Speaker 3: respects to their elders. Past, present and emerging as well.
Speaker 1: Karla, can you tell us a little bit about your country,
Speaker 1: where you grew up and what your childhood was like.
Speaker 3: Well, basically I was born and raised in Adelaide. So
Speaker 3: my grandparents they are actually from the Northern Territory and
Speaker 3: my grandfather's from Adelaide River area, which is sort of
Speaker 3: going closer up to Darwin. And my grandmother was from Hermansburg,
Speaker 3: so western aar Into country. When they got together, they
Speaker 3: moved down to South Australia and they had my mum
Speaker 3: in Udna Dada, a little town on the way to Adelaide.
Speaker 3: It's somewhere near Kooper Peedee, I think around those parts.
Speaker 3: And my mom and my auntie and uncles were raised
Speaker 3: in Adelaide, and so my met my dad in Adelaide,
Speaker 3: a Dutchman in the sixties, and so I was born
Speaker 3: in Adelaide.
Speaker 2: How did your parents how did your dad a Dutchman
Speaker 2: and your mother here an Australian. How did they meet?
Speaker 2: Do they have like what's their story?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, it's a really interesting story actually because it
Speaker 3: was in the sixties and of course, you know, interracial
Speaker 3: marriages wasn't really the dune thing during that time. So
Speaker 3: my dad came out to Australia when he was thirteen.
Speaker 3: His mum was a Dutch Jew and of course during
Speaker 3: the Second World War she was sort of hiding underground
Speaker 3: with the kids, with my dad and my aunties and uncle. Anyway,
Speaker 3: I get her and her husband decided, you know, we
Speaker 3: need to leave Holland and they came to Australia on
Speaker 3: a boat and ended up settling in Adelaide. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so my mum and dad met when they were in
Speaker 3: their twenties. They actually made headlines. They were in the
Speaker 3: Adelaide Advertiser and the headline was migrant Mary's Native girl.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, So I've actually got those clippings as well.
Speaker 3: I've managed to find them when I've done some research
Speaker 3: on my family.
Speaker 2: That's such an incredible story and was the headline in
Speaker 2: the paper. Like, oh my god, I could do a
Speaker 2: whole other podcast on just your dad. Now, the story
Speaker 2: or dad coming over and the dad is not what
Speaker 2: we're interviewing, but we're very interested, but it is. Actually
Speaker 2: it is actually such an incredible story. I mean, even
Speaker 2: your dad being part of that and remembering being in
Speaker 2: hiding and then having to leave flee to Australia and
Speaker 2: then meeting your mum and then making the headluts. But
Speaker 2: with the headlines in support of or were they in
Speaker 2: shock of an interracial relationship or what was the tone
Speaker 2: behind the headlines?
Speaker 3: It wasn't negative, I mean even though I mean if
Speaker 3: we saw those headlines now, everyone would be like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, you can't say things like that and like
Speaker 3: a migrant marrying a Native girl. But at the time
Speaker 3: it wasn't the done thing. I think it was quite
Speaker 3: supportive of them getting engaged in getting married.
Speaker 2: They would never even make a headline. But it's crazy
Speaker 2: that then the fact that a couple were dating and
Speaker 2: engaging together makes the headlines. It just shows you how
Speaker 2: far we have come in such a little amount of time,
Speaker 2: but obviously we still have a very long way to go.
Speaker 2: What was the passion for writing and journalism? Where did
Speaker 2: that come from it? And what did you want from that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I think growing up in Adelaide, I always
Speaker 3: had a strong sense of social justice because I was
Speaker 3: basically the only Aboriginal kid at my school and I
Speaker 3: used to get picked on all the time. There was
Speaker 3: a lot of racism. Be called every name under the sun,
Speaker 3: Abbo Cone boom. You know, I don't go near her.
Speaker 3: The black might rub off all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3: It was really awful. It was very traumatizing actually, and
Speaker 3: I didn't want to go to school, but my mum
Speaker 3: forced me, and so did my grandfather. So I didn't
Speaker 3: want to go to school, but Grandpa said, you get
Speaker 3: to stay at school, get this good education, and Mum
Speaker 3: would say you to go to school. So, you know,
Speaker 3: I stuck it out. But yeah, it wasn't pleasant experiencing
Speaker 3: that racism at school and also seeing the way my
Speaker 3: uncles were treated. They used to get picked up by
Speaker 3: the cops quite regularly just for walking along the street,
Speaker 3: just because they you know, for the color of their skin,
Speaker 3: just because they're black. They just get picked up, taken
Speaker 3: into custody for no reason at all, treated terribly. So
Speaker 3: I saw a lot of that, And police used to
Speaker 3: come to our house as well, knocking on the door
Speaker 3: looking for them if they might have had a warrant
Speaker 3: out just for unpaid fines, just very petty things like that.
Speaker 3: I sort of saw a lot of that when I
Speaker 3: was growing up, so I just thought, no, things have
Speaker 3: got to change. Yeah, I knew that I wanted to
Speaker 3: be a part of making change for my family and
Speaker 3: for my people and community. So that's what drove me
Speaker 3: to wanting to become a journalist because I thought, if
Speaker 3: I can get into journalism, then I can write about
Speaker 3: these injustices and change attitudes and change things. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I wanted to be a part of change.
Speaker 2: It's just something that we can never fathom because we
Speaker 2: didn't have to experience it. And there's a very large
Speaker 2: portion of Australia that I think we'll never ever be
Speaker 2: able to understand as much as we're trying. But you've
Speaker 2: done your studies. What was your first job coming out
Speaker 2: of university? Like, how did you get to where you
Speaker 2: are now?
Speaker 3: Well, it was a long road. It wasn't easy and
Speaker 3: it took some time to get into the industry. So
Speaker 3: I was studying and then I did some work experience
Speaker 3: at an organization called the Aboriginal Development Commission. So it
Speaker 3: was an indigenous organization to help Aboriginal people get funding
Speaker 3: for businesses and housing and things like that. So they
Speaker 3: had a public relations area and I just sort of
Speaker 3: said can I come and do some work experience and
Speaker 3: they said yes. I went there for a month and
Speaker 3: wrote a few articles after that. Yeah, I tried for
Speaker 3: some cadet ships as well. I remember I applied with
Speaker 3: the Adelaide Advertiser for a cadet ship there and I
Speaker 3: didn't get it, and I wanted to know why. The
Speaker 3: reason they gave was she looks pretty, but would she
Speaker 3: be able to communicate? And I'm Aboriginal. Wow, I thought
Speaker 3: I might be able to communicate properly or speak English
Speaker 3: or something ridiculous. Work at the Aboriginal Development Commission, worked
Speaker 3: for Susan Ryan. Then I got into public service, and
Speaker 3: at that time I was also doing a radio program,
Speaker 3: an Aboriginal radio program, so it all kind of started
Speaker 3: from there. And yeah, so from there I learned my
Speaker 3: craft really, and then in ninety five I went to
Speaker 3: work for SBS. I went to work on a program
Speaker 3: called IICAM, the Indigenous Cultural affairs magazine program. That was
Speaker 3: sort of the start of my career in television really,
Speaker 3: and I've been with them ever since. I think this
Speaker 3: year must be my twenty seventh year at SBS. And
Speaker 3: then I created Living Black, the concept for that, in
Speaker 3: two thousand and three, and I've been fronting that and
Speaker 3: producing that ever since.
Speaker 1: Color one thing that you mentioned, and something that seems
Speaker 1: to have come up in your early life. And I'm
Speaker 1: wondering whether it's something that you have I've still experienced
Speaker 1: now or whether the flavorite has changed throughout your life.
Speaker 1: But you mentioned in school you experienced racism, and then
Speaker 1: when you were trying to get into the workforce that
Speaker 1: you experienced racism. What has your experience been throughout the
Speaker 1: rest of your life.
Speaker 3: I've still experienced racism, so, which is unfortunate. Even a
Speaker 3: couple of years ago. It was about two or three
Speaker 3: years ago, I was in Alice Springs. I was shooting
Speaker 3: a documentary there. We'd finished filming for the day and
Speaker 3: so my producer and I. My producer is a non
Speaker 3: Indigenous older man, and we were going to have dinner
Speaker 3: after the shoot. So he and I just went to
Speaker 3: the local liquor store to get a bottle of wine,
Speaker 3: own a couple of beers and take to the restaurant.
Speaker 3: And soon as I walked in that liquor store, there
Speaker 3: was a police officer. They've got a special name, but
Speaker 3: they stand at the front of the entrance of the
Speaker 3: alcohol the grog shop. They pulled people up and they
Speaker 3: pulled me up straight away and asked for my id
Speaker 3: where I was staying. They wanted to see the hotel
Speaker 3: key they wanted to see, and I didn't even have
Speaker 3: any ID on me because I left it all in
Speaker 3: the hotel room. And straight away I was racially profiled.
Speaker 3: And my producer was saying, we're here. We're just getting
Speaker 3: a bottle of wine and a couple of beers to
Speaker 3: take to a restaurant where we're having dinner. I was
Speaker 3: harassed basically for wanting to know where I was taking
Speaker 3: that alcohol. They said, do you know that it's illegal
Speaker 3: to take any alcohol to restricted areas? And I said, yes,
Speaker 3: I'm well aware of that. I know what the restrictions
Speaker 3: are here, you know, in certain parts of communities in
Speaker 3: the Northern Territory. And that's a regular thing. It's a
Speaker 3: regular occurrence for our people. So I'm still facing racism
Speaker 3: to this day.
Speaker 1: It must make you so furious, also annoying that, like
Speaker 1: if you're walking into that situation and being racially profiled,
Speaker 1: like what chance does anybody else have? It must just
Speaker 1: be such obviously you see it all the time, but
Speaker 1: it must just be such a reinforcing eye opener of
Speaker 1: what everybody else in that community is going through and
Speaker 1: what everybody else in that community is subject to. When
Speaker 1: the role was created, when you started being the presenter
Speaker 1: on Living Black, what was the reasoning behind And I
Speaker 1: mean I know the reasoning, but I mean, more so, like,
Speaker 1: what was the real drive for creating a current affairs
Speaker 1: and news program that's solely focused on Indigenous affairs and
Speaker 1: Indigenous issues?
Speaker 3: The main reason for it is to bring Indigenous issues
Speaker 3: to the forefront because on commercial television, we don't really
Speaker 3: see these issues being covered. If we do see an
Speaker 3: Indigenous story on a news bulletin or on a current
Speaker 3: affairs program, it's usually something negative. So all my life
Speaker 3: that's what I've wanted to change. That's been a driving
Speaker 3: sort of thing for me, so we can create more
Speaker 3: awareness and understanding and change attitudes.
Speaker 1: Do you think stereotypes, which are like very long standing
Speaker 1: stereotypes are contributing and still contributing to the perception around
Speaker 1: Indigenous issues.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there are still a lot of stereo
Speaker 3: typical sort of attitudes that people have. I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: things are changing, but we do still have a long
Speaker 3: way to go. But I know from when I was
Speaker 3: growing up, there's a lot more education around our history
Speaker 3: and the true history of this country. I mean when
Speaker 3: I went to school, all I was taught was, you know,
Speaker 3: Captain Cook discovered Australia. Original people roamed around the countryside.
Speaker 3: We were just savages. We have come a long way,
Speaker 3: I think since then, and that is it.
Speaker 2: We have just seen a huge shift in the conversations
Speaker 2: people having around equality and Indigenous issues surrounding January twenty sixth,
Speaker 2: Survival Day, Invasion Day, Australia Day. There are many names
Speaker 2: that we have for it. What are your thoughts on
Speaker 2: Australia Day. I guess the name of Australia Day, the
Speaker 2: idea of the date moving because I feel like the
Speaker 2: majority of people now people are wanting to move away
Speaker 2: from the name and from the date. What are your
Speaker 2: thoughts on this?
Speaker 3: Well, Australia Day. I've never ever celebrated. That was just
Speaker 3: another day for us in my household and my community.
Speaker 3: I actually get quite anxious when it comes up to
Speaker 3: Australia Day. I just think about history and I think
Speaker 3: about what my ancestors went through because the day represents colonizations,
Speaker 3: the day when the first fleet came and invaded this country.
Speaker 3: It's the day that we were dispossessed of our land.
Speaker 3: We were told not to speak our language or practice
Speaker 3: our culture. There were massacres. What it represents, it's horrific
Speaker 3: and it's traumatizing, and it's quite a very painful day
Speaker 3: for many First Nations people. There has been a lot
Speaker 3: of discussion over the last five years, I guess about
Speaker 3: changing the date. It's gained a lot of momentum and
Speaker 3: I think the feeling is that we do want to
Speaker 3: celebrate on a day, but not that day. There's been
Speaker 3: a lot of discussion about moving that date and having
Speaker 3: it on another day where everyone can celebrate both First
Speaker 3: Nations people, you know, non Indigenous people and Indigenous Australians together.
Speaker 2: When I think back to when I was a teenager,
Speaker 2: I'm not proud of it, but the ignor pearance was
Speaker 2: beyond Like I think back to celebrating Australi Day as
Speaker 2: a teenager and when I was really young. For me
Speaker 2: and I think for a lot of people, I didn't
Speaker 2: actually think about what I was celebrating as a teenager.
Speaker 2: I thought, oh, it's a public holiday. I don't go
Speaker 2: to school today or totally, or I don't go to
Speaker 2: work today or there was no education around what we
Speaker 2: were celebrating. It was literally just oh, it's a day
Speaker 2: off that we can go and meet our friends. And
Speaker 2: again something I'm not proud of, but I think it
Speaker 2: was a lack of education and a lack of understanding
Speaker 2: and a lack of conversations. People just weren't having them.
Speaker 1: But even on top of that, it wasn't just a
Speaker 1: lack of understanding, like it happened from top down, Like
Speaker 1: you know we had Hottest one hundred, Triple J. It
Speaker 1: was like the media were telling you it's a day
Speaker 1: to celebrate, it's a day to have a party. And
Speaker 1: I think not only have we seen the shift in
Speaker 1: attitudes in our own social groups, but obviously with Triple
Speaker 1: J changing the day of the Hottest one hundred, that
Speaker 1: was huge for them. When I think that not only
Speaker 1: are those attitudes shifting socially, it's also shifting on a
Speaker 1: higher level as well.
Speaker 2: But is there a name or a date that you
Speaker 2: would see fit for the new we sh Australia Day.
Speaker 3: Well, there's been lots of suggestions I think being thrown
Speaker 3: around about possibly during NATO in July, where we celebrate
Speaker 3: our nation. It's still being debated and there's a lot
Speaker 3: more discussion that needs to happen. I guess it's up
Speaker 3: to the government as to what happens and if the
Speaker 3: day is actually changed.
Speaker 1: What do you think of like people who have the
Speaker 1: mentality around wanting to have a day to celebrate but
Speaker 1: thinking that like Australia Day or wanting to keep the
Speaker 1: day purely to be able to like be like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, this is what the country is now, and
Speaker 1: we shall just get over it and get on with it.
Speaker 1: What would you want to say in response to that.
Speaker 3: Well, it's pretty hard to sort of get over what
Speaker 3: happened back in seventeen eighty eight to say, you know,
Speaker 3: just to get over it and move on. And people
Speaker 3: were massacred, women and children were rape. What that day
Speaker 3: represents is horrific for us. What happened that day has
Speaker 3: now had a flow on effect. And I know that
Speaker 3: you've talked about intergenerational trauma on your program before, and
Speaker 3: that's what's happened from colonization on woods has had a
Speaker 3: massive flow on effect to our people today.
Speaker 2: The term invasion day. Can you just describe You just
Speaker 2: touched on it then, but can you just describe to
Speaker 2: people that don't know why it's called invasion Day and
Speaker 2: what actually happened.
Speaker 3: For many Indigenous Australians, it's called invasion Day. It's also
Speaker 3: called survival Day as well. We refer to it as
Speaker 3: a couple of different things. But invasion Day basically means
Speaker 3: that that was the day that the first fleet arrived,
Speaker 3: and it was the day the ships came in, they
Speaker 3: planted the flag and they invaded this country. They took
Speaker 3: over without even speaking to First Nations people. They called
Speaker 3: it Terranalius, like no man's land. They said, no one
Speaker 3: lived here. But of course Indigenous Australians have been here
Speaker 3: for sixty thousand years and more. It's the oldest living,
Speaker 3: surviving culture in the world. Or without even negotiating a treaty,
Speaker 3: we're the only country part of the Commonwealth that doesn't
Speaker 3: have a treaty with its First Nations people. They have
Speaker 3: a treaty with New Zealand, Maori's there with First Nations
Speaker 3: people in Canada, but no treaty here in Australia. And
Speaker 3: we're still fighting for that now and still trying to
Speaker 3: get a treaty or treaties for all our different nations.
Speaker 1: What does it mean to have a treaty put in place.
Speaker 3: It would mean that we would have a seat at
Speaker 3: the table in terms of determining our own affairs, because
Speaker 3: that's what Aboriginal people want. We want a seat at
Speaker 3: that table to be able to determine what happens in
Speaker 3: our future, to determine our policies and solutions for the
Speaker 3: issues that we face, because that's what we want. We
Speaker 3: want self determination. We don't want welfare. We don't want
Speaker 3: the government telling us what to do. We don't We're
Speaker 3: sick of that top down approach. You know, people in
Speaker 3: Canberra telling us what to do when they don't even
Speaker 3: know what it's like in a remote community. They've never
Speaker 3: been there. How would they know what the people are
Speaker 3: facing out there.
Speaker 1: As a non Indigenous person coming up to a stra
Speaker 1: Day or it being Australia Day when this podcast is released,
Speaker 1: what can we do to better support the Indigenous community.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a number of events that are being
Speaker 3: held around the country. Hopefully they're still going to be held,
Speaker 3: depending on we're obviously still going through a pandemic. Go
Speaker 3: along and show your support. There's also ways of logging
Speaker 3: onto things online as well, so that people can educate
Speaker 3: themselves about what this day means and what it represents
Speaker 3: for First Nations people. There's a lot of stuff that
Speaker 3: you can watch on NITV as well, a lot of
Speaker 3: documentaries and news and current affairs programs. So it's just
Speaker 3: really getting out there and showing your support.
Speaker 1: I do feel that so much of the younger generation
Speaker 1: is far more adopting of the conversation around change the date.
Speaker 1: I know that, like our generation, people who are social
Speaker 1: media savvy, people who are absorbing current news, have had
Speaker 1: a far more positive reaction to it. I've had some
Speaker 1: interesting conversations in my own family with people who oppose
Speaker 1: the day change. How would you suggest somebody who maybe
Speaker 1: their parents, or they have people in their family or
Speaker 1: older people relatives who are very in opposition to change
Speaker 1: the data, or are very in opposition to these conversations,
Speaker 1: how would you suggest that they approach that or go
Speaker 1: about starting these conversations in their household to try and
Speaker 1: enact some change.
Speaker 3: You can start a conversation with talking about what this
Speaker 3: day represents too Indigenous Australians and maybe tune into the
Speaker 3: Sunrise ceremony which is on NIV. It's at six am,
Speaker 3: but it's also being replayed throughout the day, and there
Speaker 3: you'll hear discussions from not just Indigenous Australians, but non
Speaker 3: Indigenous Australians as well, engaging in that conversation and really
Speaker 3: talking about what this day means, what it represents, and
Speaker 3: how we can move forward as a nation together, because
Speaker 3: we do want that first nations. People do want that,
Speaker 3: we do have a shared history.
Speaker 2: I think it's also I know for me personally, and
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is just how I learned,
Speaker 2: but I think for everybody, I think it's sharing podcasts
Speaker 2: like this or sharing other podcasts that are touching on
Speaker 2: these issues. Because it's one thing to go I'm going
Speaker 2: to learn about this and I'm going to google it
Speaker 2: and I'm going to do some reading, but it's another
Speaker 2: thing to sit here and listen firsthand to someone say
Speaker 2: I physically went through this every day. I'm physically going
Speaker 2: through this every single day. You can't really understand from
Speaker 2: reading on a piece of paper. I don't think you
Speaker 2: get the emotional impact from what people have been through.
Speaker 2: But Carla, thank you. You have just the most incredible story.
Speaker 2: You're an incredible woman and you're doing so many incredible
Speaker 2: things for two decades, I mean thirty years you've been
Speaker 2: with SBS, but for two decades you've been fronting Living Black.
Speaker 2: But where can everybody else find you? If they want to?
Speaker 2: Do you have a social media hand or you want
Speaker 2: to pop out there?
Speaker 3: So you can find me on Instagram. It's Carla g
Speaker 3: twenty eight on Instagram and I'm also on Twitter as well.
Speaker 3: Carla Grant twenty eight. Find out more about what we're
Speaker 3: doing with the program this series. We're back on air
Speaker 3: in April with a brand new series which I'm really
Speaker 3: really looking for too. I've just been traveling around speaking
Speaker 3: with some of our indigenous federal politicians, Lydia Thorpe and
Speaker 3: Jackie Lamby as well. Jackie was a character and so
Speaker 3: is Lydia, but it was great to sort of interview
Speaker 3: them on their own country away from Parliament House. Those
Speaker 3: interviews will be going to air before the federal election. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I hope everyone can tune in Monday nights at eight
Speaker 3: thirty on NTV.
Speaker 1: Cayla, thank you so much for giving us your time today,
Speaker 1: for sharing your stories and for having these conversations around
Speaker 1: Australia Day. We're so grateful to have you on the podcast.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me