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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 1: The time poor parent who just once answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, Hello, This is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of

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Speaker 2: Happy Families dot com dot you is we wind our

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Speaker 2: way into Term one of twenty twenty three. I love

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Speaker 2: a lot of the conversations that I get to have

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Speaker 2: as a result of the podcast. A little while ago,

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Speaker 2: I came across a book by Gabby Stroud. The book

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Speaker 2: is called Dear Teacher, and while confession time, I haven't

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Speaker 2: actually read the whole book, I was so enamored by

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Speaker 2: the excerpt that I saw that I dived into that.

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Speaker 2: And then I looked Gabby up and listened to a

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Speaker 2: podcast or two, and I saw her in an interview

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Speaker 2: or two, and I thought, oh, my goodness, parents and

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Speaker 2: teachers need to know who Gabby Stroud is. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: that more of you know who Gabby is than don't.

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Speaker 2: But Gabby joins me on the Happy Famili's podcast just now.

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Speaker 2: Gabby is a former school teacher, an author who writes

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Speaker 2: just Beautifully, a mum of two kids, and thanks so

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Speaker 2: much for being with me as we kick off Term

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Speaker 2: one of this year.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me what a time it is.

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Speaker 2: So I think we're starting this year normally for the

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Speaker 2: first time in three years. But I'm getting a lot

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Speaker 2: of emails from people, and I'm sure you are too,

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Speaker 2: who are sort of saying, Oh, my kids are nervous

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Speaker 2: about school, or my kids don't want to go to school.

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Speaker 2: I'm dealing with school refusal. You've stood in the shoes

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Speaker 2: of a parent and in the shoes of an educator.

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Speaker 2: What sort of a conversation do we need to be

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Speaker 2: having with our kids, with each other, with teachers as

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Speaker 2: we kick off the year. How would you suggest we

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Speaker 2: approach even this conversation that you and I having right now.

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Speaker 1: Look, you know, it's funny the start of a normal

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Speaker 1: school year, normal in inverted commas. I'm not sure we'll

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Speaker 1: ever be back to what we knew normal to be.

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Speaker 1: We've all been affected by the change in our planet

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Speaker 1: recently and the way we relate to one another and

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Speaker 1: the way we're thinking about the world. You know, the

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Speaker 1: thing I'd be going in for at this point in

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Speaker 1: time if I was talking to anyone parents, teachers, even

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Speaker 1: the kids returning to school. I feel as though we

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Speaker 1: need to get our head in the game. It's about

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Speaker 1: our mindset right now? How are we thinking about things

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Speaker 1: as we go into this new year and into this

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Speaker 1: school year.

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Speaker 2: So let me ask you, then, what do you reckon?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I talk to a lot of parents, but

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Speaker 2: I don't talk to them about this topic specifically. And

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Speaker 2: when you say that, I kind of think what is

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Speaker 2: a parent's mindset as the school year kicks off? It's

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Speaker 2: obviously going to differ developmentally depending on whether your child's

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Speaker 2: going into their first year of big school, or whether

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Speaker 2: they're in grade nine and just dragging their knuckles as

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Speaker 2: they walk out the door, or if they're in year

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Speaker 2: twelve and thinking, oh my goodness, I've got like three

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Speaker 2: terms to go, it's almost finished. So when you talk

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Speaker 2: about getting into the mindset, especially after like a six

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Speaker 2: week break or whatever it's been, what do you mean

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Speaker 2: by that.

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Speaker 1: Well, one of the things I'd love parents to remember

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Speaker 1: as we take our kids back to school is that

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Speaker 1: they're going to meet teachers, they're going to be engaged

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Speaker 1: with the school community, and we see that very much

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Speaker 1: as a learning environment. But it's really important as parents

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Speaker 1: that we remember we are the first and the lifelong

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Speaker 1: educator of our child. So it's not drop the kids

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Speaker 1: back at school set and forget oh, thank goodness, we

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Speaker 1: don't have them home kicking around under our feet for

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Speaker 1: the school holidays anymore. It's very much a continuation of

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Speaker 1: our role as their primary educator. Just by the very

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Speaker 1: nature of that child being birthed from you, that child

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Speaker 1: looks to you as their educator for forever, and so

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Speaker 1: that's really important that we remember that as parents as

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Speaker 1: we drop our kids at the school gate, and I

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Speaker 1: think to it's important for teachers to remember that too.

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Speaker 1: Teachers don't have to carry this whole big load of

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Speaker 1: educating the class in front of them all on their own.

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Speaker 1: It's a partnership. It's teachers and parents working together. And

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Speaker 1: when we think like that, we had better results for

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Speaker 1: everyone who's on that team, that's behind that student that's

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Speaker 1: going through that school experience.

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Speaker 2: So I'm thinking about this idea of parents being the

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Speaker 2: number one educator, the lifelong educator of that child, and

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Speaker 2: two thoughts are coming to my mind, and I want

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Speaker 2: to share them both and see what your reaction is.

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Speaker 2: The First one is this idea that we would outsource

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Speaker 2: education is still a relatively modern invention. I mean, universal

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Speaker 2: education in school across most of the world, except for

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Speaker 2: some particularly privileged people a few centuries ago and even

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Speaker 2: millennia ago. Well, there's always been an encouragement for education.

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Speaker 2: It's only become universal what in the last let's say,

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty years, late eighteen hundreds, even in France,

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Speaker 2: and they were kind of on top of the game,

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Speaker 2: they were in the late seventeen hundreds, early eighteen hundred,

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Speaker 2: so it's a pretty new invention. Until that time really

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Speaker 2: did do all the education. So that's my first, I

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Speaker 2: guess reaction to what you're saying. We've adapted to it

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Speaker 2: really quickly and become very comfortable with just saying, all right, kids,

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Speaker 2: you go to school, the learning happens there. But as parents,

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Speaker 2: we've got this huge task to do that lifelong education.

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Speaker 2: Which leads me to the second reaction that I have

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Speaker 2: to what you've said, and that is, if we are

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Speaker 2: the primary and the lifelong educators of our children, what

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Speaker 2: are we teaching them? Like when I think about what

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Speaker 2: we might do when the kids come home, what are

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Speaker 2: we teaching them? Are we teaching them that life is

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Speaker 2: about hustle and bustle we need to hurry, that life

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Speaker 2: is about filling our agenda, our calendar with heaps to

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Speaker 2: do that life is about taking. And I say this.

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Speaker 2: I say this meaning to be generous. In our best

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Speaker 2: efforts to fill our children's lives with all of the

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Speaker 2: great enrichment activities that we can, we have to take

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Speaker 2: shortcuts in other areas, like getting fast food and eating

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Speaker 2: in the car three nights a week or And I

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Speaker 2: know I'm kind of piling on the guilt. I'm not

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Speaker 2: trying to do that, but I guess my question is,

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Speaker 2: what are we teaching our kids? If we're outsourcing the reading, writing,

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Speaker 2: arithmetic sort of stuff to the schools, what are we

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Speaker 2: teaching We're having conversations about sex, consent and staying safe,

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Speaker 2: or about alcohol and drugs. We talking to them about

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Speaker 2: these things. I don't know what's your reaction to that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, as a parent, we're teaching our kids all

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Speaker 1: the time. Even those teenagers who are acting as though

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Speaker 1: they don't care and they're not interested in us, they

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Speaker 1: are looking at us sideways, you know, the little side

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Speaker 1: glance when they look up from their device. Our kids

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Speaker 1: are absorbing us all the time, like sponges. They're watching us.

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Speaker 1: They're watching the way we speak to the to the

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Speaker 1: kid that drive through that serves us. You know, they're

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Speaker 1: watching the way we manage all that hustle. They're watching

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Speaker 1: the way we plan and organize things. We as the parents,

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Speaker 1: we teach our kids so much about how to do life. Recently,

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Speaker 1: through all that stuff with the pandemic, we taught them

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Speaker 1: how we cope in a crisis. We are teaching our

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Speaker 1: kids how to respond, how to be in the world,

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Speaker 1: how to enact with the circumstances that come up with

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Speaker 1: you know, around us. We teach them how to be

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Speaker 1: in relationship to others. And I think that that's why

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Speaker 1: it's important to think about that as we send our

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Speaker 1: kids back to school, because the way we as parents

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Speaker 1: respond to that return to school or that going to

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Speaker 1: school for the first time, we teach our kids some

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Speaker 1: really particular mindsets about feelings about school. So if we

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Speaker 1: ourselves had a pretty traumatic or a bad experience of school,

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Speaker 1: we can really easily pass that trauma and that anxiety

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Speaker 1: onto our kids.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be me. And I've even said things

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Speaker 2: Gabbie like, oh, yes, school feels like a prison, Like

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Speaker 2: my kids have heard me say that, because that's how

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Speaker 2: it felt to me. And you're right, the modeling, the

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Speaker 2: modeling that we exhibit, the teaching that we do without

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Speaker 2: even realizing it is profound.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, how we talk about teachers, the kind of

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Speaker 1: after school talk that we do around the playground as

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Speaker 1: we let the kids have a last little play before

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Speaker 1: we jump in the car at the end of the

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Speaker 1: day at school pickup. You know, the way we talk

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Speaker 1: about teachers, the way we talk about things that are

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Speaker 1: happening at the school. Our kids pick up on that.

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Speaker 1: They soak that up and that can really imprint strongly

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Speaker 1: on them about their feelings about school and their perception

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Speaker 1: of school as well. So it's really important that as

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Speaker 1: parents we think about the mindset that we have and

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Speaker 1: then what the kids are picking up from us as

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Speaker 1: that kind of educator that we are, even though it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like a sly education that we're giving because

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Speaker 1: they're just watching us, they're listening, and they're picking up

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Speaker 1: our vibe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of like teaching by immersion and by osmosis.

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Speaker 2: It just sort of settles on them. In fact, even

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Speaker 2: when you use that word mindset, my definition of mindset

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Speaker 2: is it's a settled way of viewing or thinking about things.

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Speaker 2: It's just your attitude towards it, and great reminder about

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Speaker 2: what our mindset or our attitude towards our kids and

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Speaker 2: their education might be in order to best facilitate their success.

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Speaker 2: I was speaking with Gabby Stroud. You can find more

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Speaker 2: about Gabby at Gabbystroud dot com. What else do you

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Speaker 2: think parents need to hear Gabby when we're having this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Another big thing, as we know recover from that first

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Speaker 1: week back at school, is to remember that we're all

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Speaker 1: on the same team. So your child's teacher wants the

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Speaker 1: exact same things for your child that you want for them.

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Speaker 1: It's a really funny time for education. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: trying to operate under a business model, and that's not

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Speaker 1: really great. And what that has done is it's sort

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Speaker 1: of positioned parents as though they're consumers and schools as

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Speaker 1: though they're sort of a marketplace that's offering a particular product,

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Speaker 1: and it's not really the best way for education to operate.

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Speaker 1: And it's sort of then positions parents to think that

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Speaker 1: if something goes wrong, you go and have a complaint,

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Speaker 1: You go in and say what went wrong, and you

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Speaker 1: go and see the teacher and you get it all

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Speaker 1: sorted out, and it then positions the teacher as though

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Speaker 1: they're the owner of the shop, and you know, the

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Speaker 1: customer is always right, and we have to make an adjustment.

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Speaker 1: We need to shift that mindset, you know, and we

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Speaker 1: need to remember that the teacher really wants the exact

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Speaker 1: same things that the parent wants. We want those kids

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Speaker 1: to prosper. We want them to grow, we want them

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Speaker 1: to achieve. We want them to fail and to learn

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Speaker 1: from that failure. We want them to learn that achievement

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Speaker 1: comes from effort. We want them to have a goal.

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Speaker 1: We want them to feel safe, we want them to socialize.

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Speaker 1: We all want the exact same things. And so if

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Speaker 1: we can kind of align ourselves with that and recognize

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Speaker 1: that the teacher and the parent, we're all on the

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Speaker 1: same team. We're all cheering for this kid to have success.

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Speaker 1: If we can have that kind of mindset, and if

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Speaker 1: we can have that not even just a mindset, but

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Speaker 1: to truly believe that and to recognize that it's actually

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Speaker 1: going to grow a really lovely, healthy productive relationship between

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Speaker 1: teacher and parent, and that kind of healthy productive relationship

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Speaker 1: is only going to see that student thrive, which is

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Speaker 1: ultimately what we all want. Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 2: I felt like standing up at applauding. That was really

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Speaker 2: really powerful. The impact that not having a positive relationship

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Speaker 2: with the teacher has on everything to do with schooling

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Speaker 2: is profound. We've had that with one of our kids.

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Speaker 2: We've got six kids, one of them. We had that

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Speaker 2: one year and we watched motivation, we watched well being,

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Speaker 2: we watched approach to school just suffer so very much

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Speaker 2: as a result. So really really nice idea. Is there

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Speaker 2: anything else, like if we were if we were to

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Speaker 2: give one more key takeaway for parents as they're settling

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Speaker 2: into the new year and making all this stuff happen.

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Speaker 2: Is there anything else that you think that we should

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Speaker 2: talk about?

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Speaker 1: I think that the I'd sort of like to leave

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Speaker 1: your audience with the question, which is what is school for?

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Speaker 1: You know, why don't we send our kids to school?

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Speaker 1: It can't just be so that we go to work,

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Speaker 1: because that's a pretty ordinary reason, and it can't you

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Speaker 1: know that as an answer means that we just send

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Speaker 1: our kids to school so our economy can keep going.

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Speaker 1: And that's a very frail reason to put our kids through,

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Speaker 1: you know, ten twelve plus years of education.

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Speaker 2: I've got to jump in just for a second. This

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Speaker 2: because I asked this question of a bunch of friends recently.

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Speaker 2: We were standing around having a good catch up, and

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Speaker 2: we were talking about school, and some pretty negative attitudes

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Speaker 2: came out about school is part of the conversation, which

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Speaker 2: often is the case because school is not always positive

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Speaker 2: for every kid. And they were talking about their own

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Speaker 2: experiences and I was sharing mine and they were sharing

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Speaker 2: their kids' experiences, and we were having that conversation and

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Speaker 2: I actually asked that question, what's the purpose of school?

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Speaker 2: And I think there would have been four, maybe five

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Speaker 2: people in addition to me in that conversation, and I

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Speaker 2: was met with blank stares. It's almost like, well, it's

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Speaker 2: just it's just what we do. It's part of the

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Speaker 2: fabric of our society. We don't even we don't even

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Speaker 2: notice it. It's just there and it's it's what we do.

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Speaker 2: And there was there was kind of just this vague

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Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure. Well, we need it because that's

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Speaker 2: how we get into university so that we can go

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Speaker 2: and do what we really want to do with our lives.

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Speaker 2: So that's how we We've just got to do it

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Speaker 2: because the government makes it compulsory and as you've said,

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Speaker 2: there's that there's that economic aspect to it as well.

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Speaker 2: So when you hear that question, what's your answer, what

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Speaker 2: is the purpose of school?

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Speaker 1: Well, I've thought about this question long and hard, and

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Speaker 1: it's the same answer that you get when you don't

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Speaker 1: think about it very much. Like you send kids to

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Speaker 1: school to learn, you know, to learn all the things

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Speaker 1: social skills, reading, writing, and arithmetic, problem solving, cooperation, all

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Speaker 1: those things, all of those things. But then if we

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Speaker 1: send them to school to learn, then what is learning

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Speaker 1: all about? It? Kind of this is a question that

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Speaker 1: leads you down a little rabbit warren of other questions.

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Speaker 1: What is learning about? Why do we learn? You know,

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Speaker 1: we learn because we're human and so inherently we're curious,

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Speaker 1: and we learn because through learning we can grow and

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Speaker 1: we can achieve things, and we can contribute to our

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Speaker 1: society because we live in society, we live in communities. Again,

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Speaker 1: this is just because we're human. So when you really

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Speaker 1: follow this thought along, you discover that learning is actually

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Speaker 1: a really important thing. It's vital for our survival. And

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Speaker 1: then it leads me into questions about so, if learning

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Speaker 1: is so vital and it's important for our survival, and

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Speaker 1: it's inherent with us within us, because we're curious, is

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Speaker 1: learning a competition? And do we send our kids to

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Speaker 1: school to compete with one another? And if that's if

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Speaker 1: that is the case, then how do we determine winners

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Speaker 1: and losers? And what happens to our learning when we

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Speaker 1: feel as though we're the loser. And you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: really opening up a big can of worms for everyone

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Speaker 1: that's listening. But I'd love for parents to think about that,

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Speaker 1: because that is part of what I see as being

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a problem in education at the moment.

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Speaker 1: This business model and this idea of learning being a

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Speaker 1: competition and we're going to pit the kids against one

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Speaker 1: another and say who learned that best and what school's

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Speaker 1: performing best based on these tests. It's something we all

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Speaker 1: need to think carefully about, because really, if learning is

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Speaker 1: that important, then our school should be the healthiest, most

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Speaker 1: sort of most thriving places in our communities, and our

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Speaker 1: teachers should be the happiest people and the people who

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Speaker 1: are so pleased to show up for their jobs every day,

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Speaker 1: and our kids should be singing as they go out

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Speaker 1: the door ready for a school day. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure that always happens, and the only way it's going

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Speaker 1: to change is if we all start thinking, well, what

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Speaker 1: is school for? What is it about? Why do we

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Speaker 1: do it?

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Speaker 2: Gebbie, I want to say the hard thing now, because

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Speaker 2: I'm in love with what you've said, But the hard

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Speaker 2: thing is, for too many of our kids, and for

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Speaker 2: too many of our teachers as well, school is not

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Speaker 2: those things that you've just articulated. School is not fun.

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Speaker 2: School is not a place of learning. School is not engaging.

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Speaker 2: School is not a place where curiosity is fed and

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Speaker 2: that light is lit where we want to continue discovery.

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Speaker 2: School is a place of pain and rote memorization and

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Speaker 2: high levels of demands and feelings of incompetence and social isolation.

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Speaker 2: And I'm just talking about the teachers here, right, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm just kidding, But it's that kind of process for

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Speaker 2: that kind of experience far too many of our kids. Now,

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Speaker 2: we obviously can't solve the education challenges that this country

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Speaker 2: has in a fifteen minute podcast with happy families. But

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Speaker 2: maybe if we as we reflect on your three big

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Speaker 2: ideas that we've just talked about, this idea of getting

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Speaker 2: our mindset right, getting the same team as the teacher

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Speaker 2: and really focusing on the learning and the discovery the

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Speaker 2: development of the child through an education process. Can I

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Speaker 2: ask a tricky question to wrap up, and that is

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Speaker 2: if the answer is no, that's not how it is

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Speaker 2: for my child, If somebody's listening right now, or if

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Speaker 2: there's a teacher who's saying, that's not how it is

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Speaker 2: for half the kids in my classes, that's not how

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Speaker 2: it is for me. What do we do to I guess,

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Speaker 2: provide some hope, to offer a pathway forward for those

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Speaker 2: people who are struggling from an education point of view,

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Speaker 2: whether it's adults or kids.

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Speaker 1: This is the tricky question, and it is the hard one.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing, and it's going to sound simple,

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Speaker 1: but it is complex and this is not researched. This

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Speaker 1: is my instinct answer, and that is that learning is

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Speaker 1: all about relationships. Yes, it is both as simple and

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Speaker 1: as complex as that. And so if there's a teacher

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Speaker 1: or a student out there that's listening and struggling with school,

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Speaker 1: and that parent is feeling that that student's pain, what

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Speaker 1: needs to be remedied are relationships, and so it actually

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Speaker 1: then is going to have to go back to conversations, mindsets,

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Speaker 1: going in and talking to teachers and getting on the

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Speaker 1: same team teachers talking to students and bringing them in

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Speaker 1: on the same team. But also bigger than that, those

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Speaker 1: barbecue backyard conversations, those down the street conversations, those playground

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Speaker 1: conversations where adults are talking with adults, parents with parents.

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Speaker 1: We need to start really talking about what we want

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Speaker 1: our schools to look like. And that's how we make

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Speaker 1: our schools and design our schools so that all kids

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Speaker 1: feel as though they're succeeding and that there's something there

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Speaker 1: for them, and that all teachers feel as though they're thriving.

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Speaker 1: And again, so that comes down to relationships and conversation,

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Speaker 1: and it seems so basic and it seems so simple,

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Speaker 1: but that's that's where it's got to be. That's where

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Speaker 1: it's got to start. This change in education that's so

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Speaker 1: needed is not going to come from a politician, but

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Speaker 1: it's just not. It's going to be a grassroots movement

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Speaker 1: and means it's us.

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Speaker 2: Gabby Stroud, the author of Dear Parents, the author of Teacher.

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Speaker 2: Find her at Gabbystroud dot com. Wish we could talk

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Speaker 2: for ages, Gabby. This has been such a delightful conversation.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: We will link to Gabby's resources in the show notes

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Speaker 2: so that you can find more about her. And if

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Speaker 2: you're an educator, you might like to have Gabby show

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Speaker 2: up at your school and talk with the staff or

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Speaker 2: even the parents. She's just delightful and absolutely wonderful to

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Speaker 2: listen to and engage with. The Happy Families podcast is

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Speaker 2: produced by Justin Ruland for Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is

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Speaker 2: our executive producer. For more information about making your family happier,

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Speaker 2: please visit us at Happy Families dot com dot you. Oh,

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Speaker 2: and in a couple of weeks time, we've got a

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Speaker 2: webinar for you about what to do when school sucks,

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Speaker 2: because the reality is for some kids it does, and

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Speaker 2: we want to make that less of a problem. So

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Speaker 2: please visit us at Happy Families dot com dot IU

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Speaker 2: for that information