WEBVTT - Unlikely Allies 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:03.560 My name's Noon. I'm a storyteller on Fine and Tell. 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.840 I'm Australian born Korean and I'm currently living on Gadigle Country. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.800 I'd like to recognize the traditional custodians of this continent 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.720 whose land was stolen nearly two hundred and fifty years ago, 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:19.079 in particular the Camaragle and Wornderi people whose land this 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.239 podcast was recorded on, and we extended our respect to 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:26.320 all Aboriginal and Torres Right Islander peoples. The rich storytelling 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:28.479 history of the world's oldest living culture is what we 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:31.160 pay homage to when we tell stories on Fine and Tell. 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.760 Hello and welcome back to Find and Tell the search 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:42.960 for the next generation of Australian storytellers. I'm Jamilla Risby 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:47.720 and after a nation wide search, we found four budding storytellers. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.639 We've taught them the ropes of podcasting and set them 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:52.000 loose to find and. 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:52.960 Tell some stories. 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.520 Each episode, two of our storytellers go head to head 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.520 and share a story they've created based on a theme, 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.600 and just like you, I'm hearing them for the first 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.080 time before I gather my thoughts and decide the episode's winner. 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.440 No pressure, right, every win puts our storytellers closer to 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.679 being crowned our Find and Tell champion and winning a 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.839 whole bunch of goodies from our friends at Rhode. Last episode, 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.520 it was Ben who took home the points, and now 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:23.319 we're about to hear from two new storytellers who will 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.640 battle it out over today's theme. Unlikely Allies, All right, 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:29.720 let's unearth our next storyteller. 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.960 Hi. My name is Mark Mariano. I am a queer 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.920 Filipino writer, model, and comedian from Blacktown in Western Sydney 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.319 on dark Land. I love capop, I love thrifting. I 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.080 love having a good bookie and telling a good story. 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:47.280 I'm currently a freelance writer. I'm a bit of a 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.480 jack of all trades. I've done stuff in TV, social media, 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.000 spoken word, Melatus gig was a food writing one, but 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.120 there were more stories outside of the food world that 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:58.480 I wanted to tell. So my friend sent me this 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.680 incredible call out for Find and Tell and it sounded 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.880 like exactly what I wanted to do. I'm so glad 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:07.520 that I did because the stories that we've put together 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.959 are just so heartwarming, so wholesome, and I can't wait 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:12.679 for you to hear them. 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.000 Hi, Mark, welcome to find and tell Hi. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:17.919 Hello, how are you? 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.440 It is so lovely to see you, and I'm very 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.520 excited to hear all about the story that you've created 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.520 and your very first story of the show. 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:28.600 Oh my goodness, I'm so excited. 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:33.000 So this week's theme is unlikely Allies. Tell me when 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:37.480 you first heard that theme, excited, stressed, tense. 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:39.600 I was like, am I going to have to fight someone? 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:39.960 Am I? 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:40.840 Yeah? 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.120 Who will my allies be? Who will my unlikely allies be? 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.639 My mind went in so many different directions, and then 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.320 it wasn't until I spoke to one of my producers 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.040 where it was like, why don't we do something a 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.839 little bit more personal? Like why don't we do something 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.679 that's a bit close to home? And so it's a 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:59.480 little scary. I'm a little scared to have it out 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.520 in but at the same time, I'm I think this 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.359 is a really important story to tell, So I'm excited. 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:07.440 What kind of stories do you like to hear? 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:09.960 So put yourself in the shoes of the audience as 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:11.359 opposed to the podcaster. 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:12.840 What do you like to listen to? 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:17.680 Well, I'm a bit trashy. I is good because I 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:22.160 feel like podcasts are such an intimate form, and so 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:24.720 when I listen to podcasts, that's where I often go 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.160 when I want to hear about what a celebrity feels 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.679 like or what a celebrity is going through. I feel 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:32.760 like there's a lot of time and a lot of 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.800 a lot of room on podcasts to really dig deep 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:41.240 and really sort of be vulnerable. I'm very like person driven, 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.000 and so when I search my podcast I'm like, who 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.000 is who is someone that I want to know more about? 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.800 Who is someone with complex traumas who presents a different 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:54.119 way but what we want to trauma exactly? 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:54.840 Mark? 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:59.120 Without giving too much away, what led you to today's story? 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.840 Well, you know, I have a really complicated relationship with 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:08.040 spirituality and religion, and you know, as someone who's proudly queer, 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.960 I think this is something that has been on my 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:12.640 mind on a lot, and I thought I was alone 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.360 in this experience, but you know, after, you know, speaking 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.640 to others who are in a similar space, you know 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.080 I'm not alone, and I wanted to sort of dig 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.159 a little bit deeper. What does it actually mean to 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:28.640 be a queer person who has ties to a religion 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.000 or who was born and raised in a religion like myself. 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:34.440 So I'm hoping the episode turned out okay, and then 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.440 I'm not slandering any you know, religious figures. I'm sorry, 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:40.760 so hopefully no blessed with me today, but we'll tell 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:41.880 a good story in the meantime. 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.240 Oh, you've definitely piqued my interest, Mark, so let's get started. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.960 Let's hear you'll find and tell first story, which is 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:49.800 all about unlikely allies. 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.239 My last day as a member of the Mormon Church 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.159 was just like any other Sunday. I wore a tie 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.640 that strangled my double chin and a hand me down 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:08.839 button up shirt that desperately needed an iron. I hugged 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.719 my friends goodbye and ignored the weird looks from the 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.640 tough boys in my scripture class that made fun of 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.880 my high pitched voice. My normally heavy red Bible holder 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.039 felt lighter as I swayed out of those holy whole ways. 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.520 I settled in my mom's white Toyota echo Beyonce's halo 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.080 blasting on the radio, and as we drove home, the 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.960 church got smaller and smaller in my mother's rear view. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:41.440 But I never looked back once. Mormonism is one of 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.479 the more illusive Christian religions, and not many people know 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.719 about it. The Book of Mormon musical really helped bring 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.039 it into the zeitgeist. But I'm sure I made the 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.720 faith look a little silly and confusing as well. I 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.120 was born into the church, and while I left it 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.000 as a young teenager, I know enough to answer some 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:05.120 frequently asked question. Gens, Can Mormons drink coffee? So under 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.560 the faith's Word of Wisdom doctrine they actually can't. Something 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.599 about not being able to have hot drinks. Mormons in 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.279 general tend to avoid caffeine, and yes, that also means 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:21.000 a crisp glass of Coca cola. Can Mormons get divorced? Yes, 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.320 but with a lot of steps and counseling and red tape. 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:28.880 As my parents found during theirs. What is Mormon soaking? 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.200 It's weirdly not what you think. It's probably worse. So 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.160 it's a bit of a premarital sex loophole, a way 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.080 of getting it on without actually doing the physical act. 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:41.839 It went viral on TikTok in case you want to 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:45.440 go down that Internet rabbit hole, but please google at 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:54.279 your own risk. Can Mormons be queer? Hmm? This question 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:58.240 has been on my mind, my whole life. Can sexuality 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:09.479 and spirituality coexist? From an official standpoint? The Human Rights 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:12.920 Campaign reported from the church website that the experience of 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:16.320 same sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.080 The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:24.200 it is. The Church actually considers Mormons who act on 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.840 feelings of same sex attraction to have disobeyed church teachings 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:33.360 on morality and thus are subject to discipline. Brad Harker 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.080 is the founder of the Peacock Mormons, who are working 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.040 to challenge the current policies and systems in place. 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:43.360 Peacock Mormons started in twenty eighteen. We were just a 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.480 group of eighty of us. Most of us were Mormons. 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.640 Some of them were friends and were allies that wanted 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.800 to support us in the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:57.840 and we marched in the Mormon missionary attire, which you 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.760 know is the white shirt and the badge and the tie. 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:06.240 The badge said Elder Equality on it. We mass for equality. 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:09.280 So I actually saw the Peacock Mormons march in the 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:13.200 twenty twenty three Sydney Gain Lesbian Martigars parade. They were 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.480 dressed in glittery gold in homage to the Golden Angel 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.920 Moroneye statue at the peak of every Mormon church building. 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.720 Moroneye was a warrior and a catalyst for the Mormon Church, 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:28.320 a shining beacon, guiding people, even the founder, Joseph Smith 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.040 to the faith. If I'm going to be honest, I 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:36.800 was a little taken aback. First. I was angry that 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:41.520 the church, in a presumably official capacity, was marching, like 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:46.079 how dare they? After a few deep breaths, the anger 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.800 subsided and a larger truth came over that other gay 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.480 Mormons existed and that I wasn't alone. 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.160 It was like a statement, a beautiful statement. And every 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.120 time we march, we do reach out to the Mormon 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.760 prophet and we write a letter and we ask him 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.040 to change some of the policies. 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.480 The prophet is like the Beyonce of the Mormon Church. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.040 He is a conduit to our heavenly Father and often 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.800 dictates where the church stands on modern social issues. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.400 So we've made some headway. Once upon a time they 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.280 had an awful rule that said, you can't baptize people 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.640 if your parents are in the same sex relationship, you 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:24.000 cannot be baptized. Which was really awful and quite an 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.679 ugly rule, and they changed it two years after we 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.600 marched in twenty eighteen. We weren't the only ones that 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.400 asked them to change the policy. There were other people 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.680 in the world that joined us as well. It was 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.200 a comradeship effort. 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.240 The stakes were extremely high for Brad. He's a sixth 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:45.920 generation Mormon with pioneer lineage, but with a clear sense 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:46.319 of self. 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:50.080 He came out and they were shocked and Mum said, no, 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.319 please like girls, Brad, please like girls. I unfortunately had 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.360 to let it down and say, look, I'm dating guys now, 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.520 and this is different from what you've been used to. 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:03.240 They still deeply go to church every week they attend 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.840 and they receive teachings from the church that gay is 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.800 not okay. This is very difficult for them. My father 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.800 has the most problems with it. MO Mum is an advocate, 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.640 she's embraced she had turned around it and she voted 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:22.360 yes for marriage equality. But my dad, my dad voted no. 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:23.679 He voted against it. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.520 When it came to Brad's local congregation, his branch, the 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:33.760 reaction was a little different. Homophobia ran rampant in all 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.360 levels of that church, So this isn't a surprise to 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.200 me at all. The loving community we build as members 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.800 from birth all but falls apart when our queerness comes 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:44.360 into play. 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.840 The bishop called me up and wanted to excommunicate me, 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.360 and this was an awful thing to have happened because 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.840 I was gay. He said, I've heard the rumors from 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.200 your wife and we want to excommunicate you. 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.480 The wife in question was from Brad's second marriage. 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:03.880 We fell out of love. My wife didn't want to 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.600 be with me anymore, and so I was going through divorce. 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.120 And this made me feel like I should be true 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:14.720 to everyone about my sexuality. So as I've got the 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.920 people that have turned on me and have asked me 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.640 off communications, and then I've got the other side of 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:25.199 people that have continued the communications with me and are 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.760 still positive and they go to church, but they still 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:33.720 engage with me in a positive way. 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.720 While my bishop never tried to excommunicate me, at least 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:41.800 that I know of, my experience was somewhat similar to Brad's. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.240 When I hit puberty and actualized my gayiness, I consciously 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:52.040 uncoupled from the church. People started treating me different. There 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.520 were those tough boys again, who tease that I walked 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.000 to girly. There were others who did it behind my back, 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:03.359 exchanging sinful theories, hushed conversations. I thought it was impossible 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:07.400 for spirituality and sexuality to coexist, and I've carried that 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:19.200 confusion and internal conflict since testing one, two three, testing 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:24.040 huh speak Hello, Hello, oh Hello. It's like we're sitting 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:27.520 next to each other. We are seven years away. How 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.720 crazy is that? With this question heavy on my mind, 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.000 I caught up with my friend Lama, a fellow queer Mormon. 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.120 We met as adults, but as kids we were part 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.959 of neighboring branches that would have crossed paths at some point. 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.800 He left two, but he soon found his way back. 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.760 I feel like I'm one of the very lucky cases 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.600 where whether it's my family or the people within the 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.200 church who have just like really embraced me for the 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.040 person that I am to my face at least, like 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.280 I always chuck it up to. These people have every 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.120 single thing and they're asking to be like, I hate you, 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:05.880 I don't want anything to do with you, but I 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:11.040 have been met with nothing but love from my friends. 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.720 Leaders A bit of a different story, but you know what, 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:19.920 people aren't perfect, so can the two actually coexist? 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:22.839 I was never quite sure, but Brad is. 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.920 This is a misconception, a huge misconception in the gay 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:31.560 community and LGBTQIA plus a lot of people believe that 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:36.000 you cannot have faith and still be gay that I 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.000 don't believe those two things can coexist. And this is 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.400 so wrong. It's so wrong. There are so many gay 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.360 people out there that have faith in a God, or 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.680 spirituality or a being, and. 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:53.040 Brad's words give me comfort. Maybe spirituality and sexuality aren't 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.600 two completely different things after all. The way I see 0:13:56.640 --> 0:14:00.640 it at both their cores is a fundamental truth. Love 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:01.920 conquers all. 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:19.040 And has given me home with peer, with kind and. 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:26.440 Leave me God me, saide. 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.280 Me, he me fine. 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.280 As much as I've drawn the line with the church, 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:36.560 I guess there are some things about it that I 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.240 hope to never shake, parts of the faith that have 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:46.280 made me who I am now. And them thinks so too, Ingrat, 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:48.280 that's faith in your head. 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:54.200 That is like, you know what, even though like you've 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.480 distanced yourself from the church from a very young age, 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.120 it's still so present in you. Is this so crazy? 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.320 Is it? It is? You're always like, is the anything I 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:04.520 can do? Do you want me to do this? Do 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.400 you want me to hold Like it's whether that is 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.440 something that is ingrained in us as being members, or 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.480 if that's just who you are, but like you know, 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.320 it's just so present, it's still active in your mind. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.320 Leaving the church, I had to let go of so 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:31.960 many things, the camaraderie, the community, the friendships. But they're 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:36.920 not gone, not really, They're still here, just not in 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.760 the confines of a chalky white hallway. 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.400 Oh Mark, congratulations, Oh thank you. 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.680 What a beautiful pace of work. And also I learned 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:57.280 so much. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.440 You know, what really struck me was the use of 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:05.600 music and how you used not just the voices of 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:10.320 church choirs, but quite different church choirs to build tension, 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.760 to sort of calm me back down again, and then 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.320 to hear you singing at the end there. 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.760 It was really elegantly done. When you went into this process. 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.120 Was music something you were thinking about from the beginning 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:22.960 or did that come in at a later stage. 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:25.320 Music individually is such a big part of who I am. 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.520 I love singing, not that well as we just heard. 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:30.880 Actually some of those hymns are my own recording. I 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.840 went to the church. I visited sacrament for the first time, 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.800 I would say in like upwards of ten years more. 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:39.480 Even more so, this is the first time I went 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.520 with my sister and my mum, who are still active 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.960 in the church. I recorded it and it was just 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.440 like calming presents. Hymns have always been so calming for me, 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.200 so I knew I definitely wanted to include that in 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:50.120 the episode. 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.640 Tell me about the two interviews with Brad and with Lamart. 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.120 Why did you choose those two to speak to What 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.280 did you want them to teach the audience through you? 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:06.119 Lama, We've had so many conversations about this. It's just 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:08.240 it's so funny. And I mentioned this in the episode. 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.320 We would have seen each other at some point. We 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:12.679 went to the same large events, we went to the 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.119 same big congregations, but it was only until after we 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.640 had both left the church that we had met and connected. 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.800 And I think that there's an element of fate there. 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.400 I think, you know, I needed to encounter someone who 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:28.840 like me, grew up in a really similar environment. I 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.680 guess I wanted to sort of know that I wasn't alone, 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.240 that someone else struggled with this, that someone else had 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.719 a really difficult time YEA. In terms of Brad, I 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:44.440 think he brought a really logistical, pragmatic approach. He took 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:49.880 some direct action, like he addressed the prophet and the presidents, 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.800 some pretty high up people to make change and enact 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.399 change and advocate for the queer community within the church, 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.080 which to me was so shocking to hear because I'd 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:00.840 never heard of that before. I never heard that. I 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:02.800 knew that there were other queer people within the church, 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.320 but I didn't know that there was people actively trying 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.359 to make change and it was healing. It was healing. 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.520 I was like, Oh my goodness, here's someone else who 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.520 has figured things out in their own stage of their 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.520 life and has used that empowerment to then do that 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.080 for other people within the church, which is something that 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.760 I'm hoping this episode does. I don't know if I'm 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:23.920 ever going to ring up the profit. I don't know 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.080 if I'm ever going to do that, but to know 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.960 that there are people like Brad who are is such 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:30.880 a healing thing for me, and I'm hoping for other 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:32.080 people who listen to this too. 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.000 You haven't eased yourself into this process in any way, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.479 have you. You've started with a combination of topics of 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:42.119 sexuality and spirituality. You didn't like pick an easy theme 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.920 to kick off. Why did you want to tell this story? 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.760 I think there are just there are people who inherently 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.280 struggle with those two things within them. And it was 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.800 a journey that, like I said, was something that I'd 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.280 been through, but so so so many other people have 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.119 as well, and there are still people on this and 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:04.600 he's struggling with that finding this perfect balance between oh 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:06.320 my goodness, am I going to go to hell? Oh 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:08.960 my goodness, can I love who I love freely? Or 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:11.560 am I going to be exiled for this? Am I 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.679 going to be punished for this? And that's been on 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.000 my mind, I would say, since I was a little kid, 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.840 and even up until now. And that is such a 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.280 sad thing for a young person to go through, don't 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.760 you think There's so many other things you need to 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.240 be figuring out in this world, and then to then 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:29.359 have to deal with that too must be such an 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:30.119 intense burden. 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.160 I suspect that there are a whole bunch of younger 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.760 versions of yourself listening right now who are also going 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:37.960 to benefit enormously from having heard that work. 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.280 Well done. Congratulations Matt, thank you, thank you. 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.359 That was such a powerful way to kick off Unlikely Allies. 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.920 In just a moment, you will meet our final storyteller. 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.800 This is fine and tell where this week our storytellers 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.920 are exploring the theme Unlikely Allies. We just heard from Mark. 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.080 Let's meet our next and final storyteller. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:11.960 Hello. 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:16.120 My name is Nan. I am from Stratfield in Sydney 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.639 and I work as a news journalist. I like telling 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:25.800 stories with really interesting and strong characters. With normal news reporting, 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:30.480 there's certain styles and durations that really restrict the way 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:32.960 you can tell a story. And there were so many 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.280 stories that we were missing out on because a lot 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:38.040 of it ends up on the cutting room floor. And 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.240 I felt this way of storytelling would be a perfect 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:46.080 opportunity to dig a little deeper and talk to people 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.879 and explore topics that Australia might never be able to 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:50.199 hear of. 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:55.840 Naan, welcome to find and tell. 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:57.800 Hello, thanks for having me. 0:20:58.680 --> 0:20:58.880 Now. 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:03.080 Your background is in news journalism. What did it feel 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.440 like moving into a space of telling stories that don't 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.480 necessarily have that strong current affairs driver. 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.520 It was like learning another language. To be honest, I 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:18.200 thought everything I knew about storytelling just went out the window, 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:21.480 because with news reporting, it's a lot of reacting to 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:25.280 events or things that people have said. But in this case, 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:30.080 you're actually proactively looking for a conflict or some sort 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.560 of new fresh angles. So having to unearth that from 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:35.920 nothing was a bit of a challenge in the beginning, 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.120 but I think I got there in the end, I hope. 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:41.840 So without giving it all away, what led you to 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:43.400 the story we're about to hear? 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:48.960 Growing up Asian in Australia, I've always been interested in 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:54.240 other marginalized communities in society, especially in Australia and the world. 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:59.280 And yeah, whenever there's misconceptions about a certain group of people, 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.840 I tend to into that and see if there's a 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:05.920 reason behind that, or some truth behind that, or yeah, 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.440 why it's become that way. So that is what led 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:11.880 me down this rabbit hole. 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:14.240 All right, let's go down the rabbit hole with you. 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:17.520 This is your first contribution to find and tell on 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:19.360 the theme of unlikely allies. 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.240 There's a dangerous threat spreading across the country right now, 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:26.040 and I'm talking about of course. 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:31.560 Karen's maybe you know a Karen. 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:33.760 Does it bring up some weird things for you When 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:36.280 I say Karen, Yeah, it's taken on a whole new 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:38.720 and somewhat negative life on social media. 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:43.600 Or maybe you are a Karen. There's no denying the 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:47.560 name has come a long way from its Scandinavian origin, Catherine, 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:52.400 meaning pure Karen is now synonymous with a demanding, entitled 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:55.280 woman with a compulsive tendency to ask for the manager. 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.840 She's usually middle aged, white and has a bobcut too. 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.280 My definition of Karen would probably be a lady that 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.480