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Speaker 1: It's a special women Woody podcast Mini Woodrow.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday, you and I had two wonderful women on, Emily

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Speaker 2: and Lucy from the undone podcast So Mum and mea

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Speaker 2: podcast which is a cracking podcast. Two twenty five year

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Speaker 2: old women living together in the city. They talk sex,

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Speaker 2: they talk life, they talk it and it's all very transparent,

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Speaker 2: very honest.

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Speaker 1: They described it as the inside of a female's WhatsApp threat.

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Speaker 2: We had Emily and Lucy on yesterday and we got

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Speaker 2: into an area where we were talking about the things

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Speaker 2: that you know, you would have done if not for COVID,

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Speaker 2: and we brought up something that Emily had said she

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Speaker 2: would have done, and the conversation that ensued, I mean

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Speaker 2: you and I immediately got very awkward.

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Speaker 3: Around a few words. I mean, there's a couple of

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Speaker 3: guys on the radio.

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Speaker 2: Naturally, this is the sort of stuff that we get

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Speaker 2: told to steer clear of, largely because A were not women,

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Speaker 2: but B we don't want to make it crass are offensive.

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Speaker 3: So this is what happened. What is your what is

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Speaker 3: your vaginist miss if you don't mind me, okay.

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Speaker 4: Evaginismus is a condition that a lot of people don't

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Speaker 4: know about. It's a condition where your kind of vagina

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Speaker 4: vagina of course, Saidie, it kind of tightens up and

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Speaker 4: it makes penetrative sex extremely difficult.

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Speaker 3: Gee whiz.

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Speaker 2: So naturally you and I moved on from this, and

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Speaker 2: I sort of said we can't delve any further into that,

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Speaker 2: that's too much. And then my girlfriend messaged me last

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Speaker 2: night and she was like, Hey, I don't know why

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Speaker 2: you you quashed that conversation with Emily. She was like,

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Speaker 2: there's a real thing. Lots of women suffer and it's

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Speaker 2: actually really painful. So we've got Emily back on the

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Speaker 2: show today.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back.

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Speaker 5: M Hello, don't get me in trouble.

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Speaker 3: No, no, there's no trouble here.

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Speaker 1: We you apologize really the way that we reacted because

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Speaker 1: this vaginismus. As Will said, we've had a lot of

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Speaker 1: women reach out to us who have also struggled with vaginismus.

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Speaker 1: And you know, to all the women that are listening

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Speaker 1: to us right now that may have struggled with symptoms

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Speaker 1: related to vaginismus, I think this conversation is really important.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So for you, M, when did ginismus? When when did

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Speaker 1: it become a thing for you personally?

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Speaker 5: For me, I've had it my whole life. I also

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Speaker 5: have a condition called policistic ovarian syndrome, which contributes to it.

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Speaker 5: And I think I mentioned you guys are there that

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Speaker 5: I just went my whole life just thinking that women

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Speaker 5: in general find sex excruciating painful. It was only when

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Speaker 5: I actually started working at MoMA Mia that one of

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Speaker 5: my friends who's in the writing team wrote about iaginousness

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Speaker 5: and I was like, oh my god, I have that.

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Speaker 5: I got diagnosed with it, and yeah, now I'm currently

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Speaker 5: working through.

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Speaker 1: That, right and sorry, what does And we are going

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Speaker 1: to be speaking to, by the way, a professional in

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Speaker 1: this area, very very shortly. But for you, Emily, what

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Speaker 1: was working through it?

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Speaker 5: Oh, it's just like a lot of physiotherapy mental therapy.

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Speaker 5: It's a combination of both, like a mental blockage and

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Speaker 5: the physical blockage.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, that is fascinating.

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Speaker 5: Usually induced. So mine was came on very suddenly experience

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Speaker 5: of traumatic experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, and then it's.

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Speaker 5: Kind of like my body saying anything that happens to

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Speaker 5: me is kind of in danger, so it's kind of

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Speaker 5: trying to protect me, even though it had been very consensual.

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Speaker 3: Wow, fascinating.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's so different for so many women. I

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Speaker 5: have a friend who can have penetrative sex, but you

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Speaker 5: can't have gynecological exams like that's when it happened for.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, okay, because for for whatever reason, her body

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Speaker 1: is responding to that as danger. Yeah, that wows really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I'm so glad you came back on to

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Speaker 2: clarify that for us.

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Speaker 6: Mate.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, that's im and I also really sorry that we

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Speaker 2: were just like laughing and sort of moving it on

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Speaker 2: because you came on the show.

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Speaker 3: We spoke about it.

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Speaker 2: I read it and I was like, jeez, what this

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Speaker 2: is interesting, and then I felt like we got into

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Speaker 2: an area where I was like, I've got to move

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Speaker 2: things on. And then I got home and I felt awful.

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Speaker 2: So sorry if we made you feel awkward about that,

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Speaker 2: and no you didn't.

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Speaker 5: When you guys had that tone of laughter, I'm like,

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Speaker 5: oh god, they have no idea.

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Speaker 1: What we didn't know, dear, but now we do and

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Speaker 1: I think that's the key. And a lot of people

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Speaker 1: listening right now would know about it as well.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us. Em really appreciate it, Mate.

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Speaker 5: We're going so much. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: So what we're going to do right next, we to

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Speaker 2: have Shan Morrison, who is the owner director of Women's

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Speaker 2: and Men's Health Physiotherapy. She's going to join us right

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Speaker 2: up next to actually get right into psychologically how this works.

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Speaker 2: It might be you that has it, might be your

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Speaker 2: partner that's got it. Yeah, and I'm sure this is

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Speaker 2: something that's probably affected a whole lot more people. So

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Speaker 2: let's do it's right up next to I'm with a middy.

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Speaker 3: It's well and what I hope you're having a wonderful

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Speaker 3: drive home.

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Speaker 2: Brought to you by Mountain Goat this Friday Afternoon Woods.

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Speaker 2: We had Emily and Lucy from the Undone podcast on

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Speaker 2: the show yesterday and Emily brought up something really quite sensitive.

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Speaker 2: You and I got very icky, tried to laugh about it.

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Speaker 2: Here here it is if you missed it.

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Speaker 3: What is your what is your vaginismus?

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Speaker 4: If you don't mind me, OKAYAGS is a condition that

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Speaker 4: a lot of people don't know about, condition where you're

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Speaker 4: kind of vagina vagina of course, said aside, it kind

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Speaker 4: of tightens up and it makes penetrative sex extremely difficult.

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Speaker 2: Gee whiz, So you and I heard that naturally, two

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Speaker 2: guys on the radio, you know, we steer away from

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Speaker 2: you know, all that sort of gear.

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Speaker 3: And but then online because we posted this video on.

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Speaker 2: Our Instagram last night on Willan Woodie, a whole bunch

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Speaker 2: of people saying, guys, you know you shouldn't have moved

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Speaker 2: on from that.

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Speaker 3: This is a real thing. If you missed that.

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Speaker 2: We just had Emily on the show to clear it

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Speaker 2: all up. She's totally cool that she were just glad

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Speaker 2: that we were talking about it. So we thought we'd

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Speaker 2: just as we like to do on this show, just

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Speaker 2: really tear the curtain down and get our hands dirty

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Speaker 2: and actually talk about this thing. So we've got Sean

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Speaker 2: Morrison who joins. She's the owner director of Women's and

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Speaker 2: Men's Health Physiotherapy.

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Speaker 3: Welcome Sean, Hi, really Woody, how are you.

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Speaker 1: Really really good? Thank you Shan. My first question is

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Speaker 1: just how common is vaginismus.

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Speaker 6: It's actually so much more common than we think. So

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Speaker 6: we know at least one in five women very in

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Speaker 6: pain with sex, but I'd say pretty much all of

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Speaker 6: them are you know, suffering silence and too embarrassed to

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Speaker 6: talk about it. So I was so proud of Emily, like,

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Speaker 6: how yeah, she actually you know, speaking about it, she's

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Speaker 6: so impressive.

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Speaker 1: It's awesome.

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Speaker 3: She was it was.

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Speaker 1: It was scary to hear though that she Emily I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about before she was diagnosed or before she investigated it,

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Speaker 1: just thought that sex that was painful.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and that is so true, like every woman that

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Speaker 6: we would treated our practice would think exactly the same way.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing that Emily brought up here, which

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Speaker 2: you know, we're just learning more and more about this now,

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Speaker 2: is that the reason that it started for her was

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Speaker 2: because of it was a reaction to some sort of

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Speaker 2: psychological trauma that she experienced, which you know, I thought

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Speaker 2: it was I had no idea that that was the case.

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Speaker 2: Actually her body physiologically protecting her. Can you talk a

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Speaker 2: little bit more about the mental side of the condition.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, sure. So we see a lot of people who

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Speaker 6: had some past this trauma or either a physical or

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Speaker 6: an emotional sort of psychological trauma. And as you guys

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Speaker 6: said before, the mind and the body are completely connected

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Speaker 6: like we can't we can't separate them. And so once

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Speaker 6: you start having negative emotions and thoughts around this, then

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Speaker 6: that then the body will protect you from that threat

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Speaker 6: or that danger.

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Speaker 1: So is it something that is curable or is it

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Speaker 1: just something that people have to regularly take care of

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Speaker 1: or you know, try and control over a long period

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Speaker 1: of time.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a great question. It's not something that can

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Speaker 6: be improved really quickly. But the vast majority of women

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Speaker 6: that we see you've definitely experienced significant improvement.

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Speaker 3: Well that's good.

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Speaker 2: Good and because it obviously it's just like a huge

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Speaker 2: part of somebody's confidence. Like, you know, if you're physically

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Speaker 2: incapable of you know, connecting with someone you like, particularly

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Speaker 2: with your like your partner, I imagine, or you know, if

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Speaker 2: you are single, if you've see if that would probably

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Speaker 2: be worse, wouldn't it. You're not if you're seeing someone

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Speaker 2: for the first time and you know, you really do

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Speaker 2: want to have sex with them, be intimate with them,

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Speaker 2: but you physically can't.

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Speaker 3: I know, like if I if I put my man

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Speaker 3: I don't know, to put a man hat on.

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Speaker 2: I already am a man, but that's always on man

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Speaker 2: it's a permanent hat. But if I put myself in

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Speaker 2: the shoes of a guy who's just about to sleep

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Speaker 2: with a girl and she says to me, I can't

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Speaker 2: have sex with you because of X Y and Z. Naturally,

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Speaker 2: my first reaction there is just like I've done something wrong,

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Speaker 2: and you know, you're so insecure in that space anyway,

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Speaker 2: you're trying to make yourself vulnerable, and then they tell

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Speaker 2: you they can't do it, you naturally think that it

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Speaker 2: was something that you were doing. What's the role of

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Speaker 2: the partner or the the other person in a sexual

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Speaker 2: relationship with someone if they have got vaginismus, like, how

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Speaker 2: do you you know?

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Speaker 3: Bridge that?

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Speaker 6: So many of the women that we see will say that,

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Speaker 6: you know, I feel like I'm not normal and or

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Speaker 6: I'm not going to I'm not a good partner. I'm

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Speaker 6: ever going to have a partner. Where can you invite

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Speaker 6: partners to come into the consultation if they want to,

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Speaker 6: and it's fantastic when they do, all right, And I

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Speaker 6: think there's actually really interesting research that was done that

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Speaker 6: looked at different partner types and they found the perfect

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Speaker 6: type or the best type of partner. What's the one

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Speaker 6: that was supportive patients encouraged open communication about it was

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Speaker 6: obviously you know understanding, you know, certainly we don't want

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Speaker 6: partners to blame themselves, but that is often a natural reactor.

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Speaker 6: Working through it together and just like every other aspect

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Speaker 6: of your relationship should be involving open communication and understanding

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Speaker 6: and being supportive, so they're the best type of partners.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, vaginismas or not, I think patients and open communication

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Speaker 1: is absolutely the way through any issue, really challenge.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been an amazingly helpful chat with you.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there are loads of people listening to this

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Speaker 2: who immediately, just like Emily, are thinking of themselves.

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Speaker 3: Gee whiz, this is probably what's been going on with

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Speaker 3: me for a really long time. So Sean.

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Speaker 2: Sean Morrison is the only director of Women's and Men's

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Speaker 2: Health Physiotherapy.

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Speaker 3: Where can we find you online?

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Speaker 6: Chant www dot WMHP dot com dot au juj.

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Speaker 2: There you go w m HP dot com if you

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Speaker 2: want to go and check out shan Chan. Thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for joining us. Pleasure, absolutely pleasure.

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Speaker 6: Hear more of your boys on the full Show podcast.

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Speaker 6: You know you want to