WEBVTT - The Debt 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:16.200 This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother teacher 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:21.320 friend missing for twenty six years. 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.040 You know, no sign that she was going to vanish. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:25.479 That's for sure. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:30.120 The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance, I'm. 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.240 Not sure if it was intentional or if there's something 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:34.120 more foul afoot. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.080 If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from say 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.400 little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:40.080 Marian Barter. 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:45.800 What I say, whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive, 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:50.559 I honestly believe somebody has that key piece of information. 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:54.760 And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum. 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.440 Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave. 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.920 I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:05.080 that somebody knows something. 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:21.080 The lady vanishes, episode fifty two. I'm Alison Sandy and 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:26.160 I'm Brian Seymour. Evelyn and the Spotlight crew are at 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:28.840 the Park to Brussels, right in the heart of the 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:35.360 capital city. Flemish folk tunes crafted by campanologists or bell 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:42.720 ringers flood the regally Landscape square every hour. The old 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:47.000 fashioned park is lined with classical statues, trees and fountains, 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.080 and provides views of the Royal Palace and Palais Delaination, 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:57.880 also known as the Belgian Federal Parliament. Unusual, taking pride 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:00.800 of place at the front is an imposing statue of 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:05.040 King Albert, who reigned in Belgium from nineteen oh nine 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.720 to nineteen thirty four, when his country was occupied by 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:14.600 German soldiers during World War I, before overseeing Belgium's postwar recovery. 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:21.160 His achieved hero status after rejecting a German ultimatum demanding 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:25.639 free passage of their troops to access French borders. Belgium 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:32.120 was invaded two days later. The former monarch credited with 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:36.440 introducing universal male suffrage, giving all men the equal right 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:40.440 to vote, regardless of wealth or station. Though Belgium was 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.519 one of the last European countries to give women equal 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:48.520 voting rights in nineteen forty eight, Belgium remains a very 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:52.920 patriarchal society. They elected their first female prime minister in 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:57.480 twenty nineteen. In spite of this, or perhaps because of it, 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:01.359 Belgium women are a formidable and strong force in their 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:09.560 families and society. Case in point, Gulaye Ganois, whose daughter 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.800 in law Alexandra offered us the use of her Brussels 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:16.600 inner city home to interview her with Glaine is Laurent 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:24.840 or Larry. Dressed in smart dark slacks, a patterned black 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.760 and white shirt and red blazer, the fourth right octogenarian 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:31.959 tells us exactly what she's prepared to do in this interview. 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:41.000 You you call another as a mattress. 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.080 All right, So Gilaine, thank you, thank you so much 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.760 for doing this with pleasure. It's lovely to be able 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.120 to talk to you, even through Larry, and just to 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.760 have you here. So we we appreciate it very much. 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:04.200 You know why, because I will help the person who 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:09.080 lose the mother that I is my reason. 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.000 Sally and the other one yes, yes, yes, the name. 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:17.200 So let's go back to the beginning. Okay, when you 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:22.440 first met Rick Blom what was his name to you? 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:23.640 Frederic? 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.760 He used Frederic the A A Y. 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:29.000 Yes, but he. 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:35.440 Don't say that immediately the first time he signed Frederic. 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.720 And did he introduce himself to you as Frederic? Yes? 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.800 So the whole time you knew him, you knew him 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:43.320 as Frederick. 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:44.080 Yes? 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.520 How did you come to meet him? 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.960 Basic game me? 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.960 I had placed an ad in a very popular newspaper 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:59.200 in Belgium. And he answered, and he wrote a letter 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:02.920 to me, was written in perfect French, a very nice letter. 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:09.520 At you placed the ad in the paper? Why because 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:11.039 you were lonely? 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.320 No, because persic. 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:19.039 At the time, I got very depressed. I had spent 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:24.080 some time in France helping a friend who had lost everything. 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:29.080 The house had burned down, the car had burned. I 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:30.760 spent a lot of time. I stayed a lot of 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:35.039 time in France helping that person for paperwork, getting the 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:39.200 idea again, and all kinds of official papers. But I 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:44.080 got tired of that situation. But I couldn't at the time, 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.240 I wasn't able to tell my kids because they would 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.440 have told me that it was stupid to spend my 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:50.760 time and energy doing that. 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:57.920 We should dear me Cete and mephis. 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.400 That person was actually not a friend. That person was 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.479 one of my sons. My other sons would have thought 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:06.880 that I was doing too much for that one son. 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:13.960 It's impossible. I must do that for my children. They 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:19.720 lose their father, then I stay alone to help all 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:29.280 the children. And this one was over head thirty times. 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.760 You were just at that stage of your life where 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:40.240 you needed someone for you well exactly, and when he 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.559 presented to you, you say, he wrote a beautiful letter. 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.120 What about when you met him, what did he tell 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:52.200 you about himself? What did he tell you? He did nothing? 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:58.480 Nothing, It don't speak from him. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:04.200 So he kept the information very close to his chest. Yes, yes, 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:10.600 so you were in effect giving him all of your 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:15.520 information and looking back, he was he was not giving 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:20.760 you anything cool exactly, very clever. Yes. But when you 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.600 spent some time with him, Galaan, what did he tell 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.480 you that he did back in Australia? Did he say 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:29.080 he was a professional man or what did he say 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:29.520 he did? 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:34.280 Ah? I never asked that. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:44.200 But now because you ask me that thing, I understand 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:50.200 that he has to say something to me. But I 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:56.880 did not ask him, Adelie Jean. 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:02.200 Yeah, he was so intelligent and so and he would 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:07.240 say nothing, probably because he understood that I was not 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:08.440 going to ask anything. 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.400 He causes more, Delia. 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:15.400 Did he give you the impression that he was a 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:21.000 successful man, a wealthy man? What did you think? 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:28.119 I believe? Stupidly? I believe or what he said? 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:29.680 So you believed his story? 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:30.119 Yes? 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:37.360 Always always, and after that, when I think about that, 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.200 I can understand. 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:41.080 Because I am not like that. 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:51.480 For instance, in France, I am no approximatively fifty years 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:58.720 in sounds of France, I know. Let me say fifteen persons, 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.360 no more, no more, and don't give my. 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:06.160 Something from me. 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.960 But you have been a successful woman. You have been 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:10.760 a business woman. 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:12.559 Yes, yes it was. 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.000 And you are you. You are very competent, and you've 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:16.840 been very smart. 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:22.240 I have more than five hundred. 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:26.080 Clients, five hundred insurance clients. Yes, so even now you 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:30.880 are you are essentially you are beating yourself up as 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.120 to why was I so stupid? Why couldn't I see 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.079 his lives? That's that's why, Yes, you are? You are 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:37.920 so torn by this? 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:44.400 Of course, yes, I'm beating myself up. Yes, there's a 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:51.319 reason why I was late today, because it's been twenty 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:58.079 years she passed. I think about this every day, basically. 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:06.200 Particularly during night, because first I am alone, the second 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:07.560 I can't. 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:09.400 Sleep even after all this time. 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:15.959 Yes, yes, because it took all my money. So every 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:21.400 day I have to tell my money because he asked 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:26.000 my money, but for a reason for my. 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:31.480 Children, Gilein, can I ask you, yes, how much has 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.320 this cost? How many dollars. 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:41.200 Dollars I can say. I can't just say roughly roughly yes. 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:50.760 In let me say if I sell all it's more No, No, 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:56.520 because I move, you know, I'm moving soon self house 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.840 because I sell my home in Bend. 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:04.040 So I had to to follow. 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:05.640 And did he get that money? 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.280 No, he does not have that money. 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:15.679 No, because at the moment he understood that we did 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:20.520 not give it, because I gathered it to buy a 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:27.120 home in France, because the sin had help before. 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:28.840 He needed that. 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:35.080 And when Frederic understood that he was away. 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.360 Ah, So when he realized that he could not get 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.800 that last bit of money from you, that's when he left. 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:43.360 Yes. 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.199 Absolutely, do you. 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.400 Not want to give the figure? I mean, can you say? 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.880 Are we talking a lot of money? 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:54.200 Do you fit? 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:00.160 On top of the money he took me had to 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:05.680 move and then I bought that house in France, and 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.440 on top of the price of the house, I had 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.960 to put money to renovate that house, and altogether it 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:17.720 went to two hundred or three hundred thousand euros a seasons. 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.680 On top of everything else. Then I had to find 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.920 me a place to stay when I visit my family 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:28.120 in Belgium. But I didn't have enough money anymore to 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:33.200 buy to buy an apartment directly. So I bought per 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:39.080 life annuity and I'm still paying today after all these years. Nowadays, 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.720 I paid nine hundred and eighteen euros every month for 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.000 a place where I cannot stay. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:50.800 So what he has done has had a domino effect. 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.839 Exact more exact, more exactly. 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.839 But fair as I it has cost you around at 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.280 least three hundred thousand euros. 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:06.280 It may it may be more, maybe more, because well 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:10.160 it took the money to. 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:12.760 Nuvoirs. 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.000 He also left with the bunny that he's he said 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.520 he would he would put in a bank for when 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:24.200 my kids would visit, and that's around seventy thousand euros Pluse. 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.640 He went away with two trunks of full of objects 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:33.359 and things that I wanted for me in Australia, do Maloni. 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.880 So he took valuables from you as well, and you've 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.640 never seen them again never. Plus he took advantage of 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:46.360 the legacy that you had for your sons. Well, you know, 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:51.960 that's an awful lot of money. I mean, that's that's 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.800 a lot of money. No wonder that you it's to 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.760 keeps you awake. After seventeen years, I needed that moning. No, 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.440 I understand this. 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:11.520 I perceived from one of my friends. This also the 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.360 shoes I buy myself. 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:21.880 This also this a gift from your friends, A gift. Yes, 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:27.160 it's still very nice you look. Thank you, Jelene. Apart 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:31.720 from the financial cost, as significant as the money is, 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:36.240 what about the other cost, the emotional cost? How has 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.680 this changed your life? 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:43.720 At the time, I was financially at ease, had that 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.480 little pension. I got that little pension because my husband 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.640 had died. He died young, he was actually older than me, 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.800 and then I was making money from my own business. 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.400 I used to work from seven am the morning until midnight. 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:04.360 But in any case, I have always preferred to be 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:11.720 around older people because I enjoyed a conversation, the mindsets, 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:16.880 and I didn't quite appreciate younger people. And all of 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.000 this led to the situation afterwards. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:24.560 When you met him, when you knew him, did he 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:29.400 ever tell you that he was married back in Australia? No, No, 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.000 were you shocked when you found that out? 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.360 I don't know pardicular. 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.360 He never told me he was buried. Later, when you 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.640 were told, what did you think? 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.560 Well, hard to believe. I understood that he had lied. 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.160 So what was the plan? What did he tell you? 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:53.880 The plan was, uh, married in Bali. 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:55.080 Married in Bali. 0:15:55.480 --> 0:16:01.320 Yes, he asked me, do you know what is his O? Yes? 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.200 I know, don't. 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:06.920 It? 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:13.400 Don't do Balier it careers? 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:19.560 Okay, so leave here, sell up, go to Australia via Bali, 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.840 get married in Bali, and then get back to Australia 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:27.640 and settle in Australia as husband and wife. Yes. Well 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:29.720 that would have been difficult, wouldn't it because he was 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:34.880 already married back in Australia. But I didn't know that. 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.240 Incredible so so obviously everything he was telling you was 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:39.720 a lie. 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:47.240 Yes, at that moment when I understood what it happened, really, 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:54.400 I understood immediately that he was lying for whole thing. 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:55.480 To the whole thing. 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:57.960 Yes, he does not love me. 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:04.920 No, s to not because at the moment I say 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:13.840 that I lose my first boy with an accident, yes, 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.320 it don't do what it was necessary? 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.280 And at that moment I think. 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.639 You thought there's something funny there, there's something strange, Yes, yes, 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:28.400 because there's no emotional connection. 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.920 Well exactly, it. 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.600 Must be very embarrassing for you to tell this story. 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.359 Why are you doing it as brave and courageous as 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:44.520 you are. Why are you doing it? What's the reason why? 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:52.240 Maybe too well to receive help. I think because for me, 0:17:53.480 --> 0:18:01.359 the loose of that child, it was clearly the same 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:08.159 face or figure lam la figure of us. 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:10.720 The same face, there's the same face. 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:18.760 It was exactly the same face, like my husband exactly. 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.040 Juliane is referring to the trauma of losing her two 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.400 year old son in an accident in the early nineteen sixties. 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.360 It's something that haunts her still. She has three surviving 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:32.280 sons and a daughter she adopted. 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:40.560 So still now it's more than fifty years that it happened. 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:41.720 That thing. 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:49.520 Each day I think about that two or three times 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.600 a day, and the night. 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:55.480 You can imagine it. 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.960 Juliane says when she told Bloom about the he seemed disinterested. 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.879 It was then she knew he did not care for 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:05.840 her at all. 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.080 Deposit plant a la police a fire the complaint to 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:11.720 the police. 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.400 He was so smart when I went to the. 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:20.800 Police, fire the complaint because I wanted to prevent him 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:26.560 from harming other people. And actually a few well sometime 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:28.800 before he left, he called me on the phone and 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.400 he said, if I ever hear from you again, you'll 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:34.040 see what happened. 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:39.680 What will happen, Sissa. So he threatened you, and at 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:41.560 that moment I replied. 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.520 Oh, well, to Sutrich. 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.320 Give me back everything you took from me, and he 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.240 said I did not take anything. 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:50.520 Did that threat scare you? 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:51.359 No? 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:53.359 No, because I can't be scared. 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.000 I'm not the kind of woman that can be scared 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.640 by this kind of threat coming from a swindler. 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.800 Was he trying to intimidate you too? 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:07.400 He even said that he would tell everything to one 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:11.920 of my daughters in law. He said he had recorded everything. 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.719 But of course I could not be scared of anything 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.560 like that. But he went to the police, yes, and 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.400 filed a report. And what did they do? Did they 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:26.600 do anything? The first time I went to the police 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:32.119 to file a report, I went there because I was 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:36.000 afraid that something had happened to him. I was scared 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:39.000 that he would have been attacked, because he said that 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.119 he was running a risk of being attacked because well, 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:46.320 first of all, he was over there with my money. 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:53.119 But then the police told me that he was okay, 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:56.480 that there was nothing to worry about because he had 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.920 been cited at the customs between I Guesst, Belgium and Hull, 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:04.520 and he was he was leaving to you know, to 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.960 catch a plane. But then then, of course I understood 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.320 at that moment that he was actually leaving me. 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.800 So so in essence, the police could do nothing. 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:16.040 No. 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:19.320 No. When he was with you, did he ever talk 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:30.280 about poison? He wanted you to have an examination in hospital, 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:36.880 an examination of what of your liver? Yes, but Glaine, 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:40.080 what was wrong with your liver? Nothing? 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:40.840 Nothing? 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:42.840 But did you say to him I've got a problem 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.200 with my liver. No, no, no, but he just he 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.719 brought that up. Yes, he actually told me to go 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:53.399 to hospital for a test, to test my liver. 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.120 So I went. I went to the hospital. They gave 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.560 me an ultrasound for my liver and there was no problem. 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:05.720 And the second because there's a new do some agency, 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:07.440 but it soundly. 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:09.639 A problem that I actually had is that I was 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:13.919 suffering from apnia. And then he was referring to some 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.399 kind of pillow that you know, he was he would 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:25.280 use in order to suffocate people. He's it's difficult to 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.800 be very clear about it, but he made me feel 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:34.840 that he would not want people to believe that he 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:39.199 would have suffocated me with a pillow, and so it 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:41.720 was kind of relieved that I was suffering from opnia, 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:42.600 if you see what I mean. 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:47.360 But he mentioned he talked about suffocation, Yes, and then 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:50.399 getting you to go to the hospital for a test 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:55.440 for something that you all day night. That's very strange behavior. 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:59.800 And he said that he would came with me. 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:05.480 During the night. He stayed in my home. 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:07.040 Very strange. 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:12.480 Yes, And then I find it it's. 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:17.040 Something danger that it's not normal. 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:23.400 But it is not normal that at that moment that 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:30.879 I find that it is not normal, Why does does 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:33.359 it put him out my home? 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:36.560 I can understand. I cannot understand. 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:40.920 What do you make of him as a man? How 0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:42.320 do you describe him? 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:42.919 Bizarre? 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:49.120 Bizarre, bizarre persic It was, it was bizarre. 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:54.919 We would have breakfast together, but then he would be 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:59.880 away for lunch away in the afternoon, and then we 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:06.040 would gather again in the evening. He was very interested 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:11.359 in old coins, and one one day we went together 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:16.160 to a cafe in Russells and in the back room 0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:22.040 there was an event there and some people were selling 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:26.960 old coins, and he took to one of the vendors there, 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:31.600 and that man, the vendor found it very difficult to 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:35.919 say that the name the heder vari And then some 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:40.600 minutes later he told me that, yes, that he let 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:44.160 that man speak and he said stupid things, but he 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:48.800 didn't want to contradict him. And then following that event 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:54.400 we went to Actually there was another event. One day 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:59.760 he came back with an old rusted coin and he 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:02.560 with that coin on the side of the pillow. And 0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:07.760 then another occasion we were we were somewhere and then 0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:13.640 in front of a shop selling old coins, and he 0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:17.200 insisted that I would go inside a shop to buy 0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:19.880 a catalog. I said, well, why don't you go yourself? 0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:23.760 He said, no, please do it for me. But you know, Gilin, 0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:28.160 when you look at it now, when you look back, clearly, 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:33.560 at one stage you thought you loved him. But now 0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:36.200 today what do you think of him? 0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:37.119 Huh? 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:43.880 Plan to show a lot of negative words from the beginning. 0:25:44.080 --> 0:25:48.000 His one and only idea was to take as much 0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:49.760 money as possible from me. 0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:55.119 But of course he never loved me, that's clear, Jammy, never, Jammy. 0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:00.680 It's a difficult story, and it's very difficult to explain. 0:26:01.000 --> 0:26:06.280 I had a friend and her husband was a very 0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:10.359 successful collector. He had a lot of money. He was 0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:14.480 a very important person. He was the director of a 0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:20.040 university institution in Rome. I don't really remember which one. 0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:25.480 But actually Frederick really insisted that he wanted to meet 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:29.480 that friend. But at the same time that friend, that 0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:34.720 the woman my friend. I knew that she loved men 0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:38.720 a lot, and I didn't want her to meet him. 0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:42.440 And also I didn't want Frederick to be in contact 0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:45.720 because it would have been risky that Frederick would take 0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:47.360 contact with such a man. 0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:50.679 We can agree, I think that he's been very cruel, 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:56.000 But do you think he could be dangerous? Oh? 0:26:56.080 --> 0:27:06.720 You certainly, certainly, because at once during the nine. 0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:13.119 Camp, I had a cramp in my leg and he 0:27:13.240 --> 0:27:18.560 wanted to take care of me, just something, but also 0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:28.480 I felt danger and I said no, forget. 0:27:29.200 --> 0:27:35.680 I refused elast but then he insisted it was just something. 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:44.159 But I was kid, we just something. I was feeling danger. 0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:47.520 You felt you felt it was a dangerous way situation. 0:27:48.320 --> 0:27:51.399 And once again I don't understand why I didn't simply 0:27:51.480 --> 0:27:52.080 kick him out. 0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:58.000 Then I don't understand should it's a good question, why 0:27:58.000 --> 0:28:00.600 didn't you just get rid of it? 0:28:01.200 --> 0:28:03.439 Because that's not me. I'm not that kind of person. 0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:04.800 It's not my personality. 0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:06.879 Should three pack them up? 0:28:08.240 --> 0:28:15.920 You know there are and you know this now because 0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:21.240 people have given you the information. There are many women 0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:28.200 who are now telling us the same story, the same 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:32.240 sort of story that you're telling us your story. Does 0:28:32.280 --> 0:28:35.000 that make you feel better or worse? 0:28:38.120 --> 0:28:42.959 My complaint to the police, because I should like to 0:28:43.480 --> 0:28:46.640 never hell something like that. 0:28:46.960 --> 0:28:52.160