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Speaker 1: Just taking a look actually at the Australian Institute of

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Speaker 1: Petroleum right now in terms of those terminal gate prices,

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Speaker 1: and in Darwin today we are sitting at a dollar

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Speaker 1: fifty seven point two. Now in some of the other

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Speaker 1: locations it's down a little bit about five cents cheaper

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Speaker 1: probably is what you're looking at in some of the

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Speaker 1: other locations. But from the aaant on the line with

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Speaker 1: me right now, Simon Matthias, Good morning, Simon.

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Speaker 2: Good to have you on.

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Speaker 1: The show now, Simon, it's a trend that you and

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Speaker 1: your team had begun to notice as well, haven't you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So what we've noticed is we're not necessarily paying

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Speaker 2: more at the bowser at the moment than, say, than

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Speaker 2: what we were six months ago. But what we're seeing

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Speaker 2: is the margins increasing. So the terminal gate price, which

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Speaker 2: is the price that the retailers pay for the fuel,

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Speaker 2: has actually dropped over the past six months, which means

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Speaker 2: the margins that they're making is increasing. Six months ago,

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Speaker 2: the terminal gate price was around a dollar seventy. Now

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Speaker 2: it's around a dollar fifty seven. So the margins theel

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Speaker 2: the retailers are making has doubled from about twelve cents

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Speaker 2: a leter to about twenty five cents a lead. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: and we think that's a bit too high.

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Speaker 1: Well, I certainly agree with you when I'm there filling

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Speaker 1: up my car with petrol. But so basically what we're

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Speaker 1: seeing is that terminal gate price is going down, but

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Speaker 1: the retailer isn't necessarily passing that on to us the motorist.

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Speaker 2: Correct, and it's probably exacerbated here or it's more noticeable

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Speaker 2: here in Darwen than it is in other parts of

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Speaker 2: the country. So to give you an idea on where

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Speaker 2: we sit nationally, in twenty twenty twenty three, we had

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Speaker 2: the third cheapest fuel in the country, behind Adelaide and Perth.

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Speaker 2: Twenty twenty four we had the second cheapest, where we

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Speaker 2: sat only behind Perth, but in the last six months

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Speaker 2: we've dropped to six, so we've only got Me and

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Speaker 2: Brisbane being more expensive. So it certainly effected our standing

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Speaker 2: in terms of national fuel prices, and it's something that

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Speaker 2: we can directify it because I don't think there's any

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Speaker 2: obvious reason why it's happened.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, why is it I guess you've sort

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Speaker 1: of half answered this, but why is it that we're

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Speaker 1: usually the last to see a drop or not even

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Speaker 1: at all. I mean, is it that issue of not

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Speaker 1: having enough competition?

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Speaker 2: I think it is. So we're a small market with

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Speaker 2: a relatively small number of operators, and there's some unique

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Speaker 2: arrangements up here as well. So you've got fuel buying

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Speaker 2: arrangements in place up here between companies who are ordinarily

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Speaker 2: competitors in other parts of the country. So an example

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Speaker 2: of that is Viva. So Viva owned Shell and on

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Speaker 2: the run they've got a fuel buying arrangement with Chevron,

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Speaker 2: who owned Cultechs. So you'll notice here in Darlin that

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Speaker 2: on the runs brand call Techs, whereas in other places,

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Speaker 2: predominance South Australia, they're branded Shell. So you've got a

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Speaker 2: commercial arrangement in place between two companies being Chevron and Shell,

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Speaker 2: who in most other parts of the world are fierce competitors. So,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not suggesting there's anything untoward with that arrangement.

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Speaker 2: There's probably some good reasons why it exists. But what

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Speaker 2: it does do is it lessens the level of competition,

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Speaker 2: and from a consumer viewpoint, you know, you'd rather see

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Speaker 2: competitors competing rather than having arrangements in place and so

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Speaker 2: the downward pressure that you get through competition is largely removed.

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Speaker 1: So what can we as consumers do do you think?

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously talking about it and highlighting it does

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Speaker 1: make a big difference, but what.

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Speaker 2: Can we do well, it's a really difficult one, Katie,

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Speaker 2: because you know, Northern Territory government and I've had pretty

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Speaker 2: long conversations we've build your own about this. They don't

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Speaker 2: have any levers that they can pull because you know

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Speaker 2: things around taxation, and the two main areas of taxation

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Speaker 2: are the is the fuel excise levy and also GST.

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Speaker 2: Now the fuel excise levy, the revenue that's been created

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Speaker 2: from that is actually going down because of the increased

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Speaker 2: popularity of evs. So you're not going to see any

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Speaker 2: relief with fuel excise and GST is GST, you know

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Speaker 2: that that's not going to change. So from a consumer viewpoint,

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Speaker 2: there's only in my opinion, there's only two real things

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Speaker 2: that can be done. You can obviously look at your

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Speaker 2: own driving habits just to ensure you're using less fuel.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing you know you can do is,

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Speaker 2: if you're in a position to do so, start looking

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Speaker 2: at evs because they are coming down in price. There

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Speaker 2: are plenty now coming on to the second hand market,

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Speaker 2: most of the arguments coming from the anti EV, but

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Speaker 2: it can be quickly counted if there's FBT exemptions in place,

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Speaker 2: which brings the payments down, if you're in a position

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Speaker 2: to acquire one through an ovated leaf. There's more and

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Speaker 2: more charging stations, so that range anxiety, I think is

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Speaker 2: becoming less of a problem. And if you ask people

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Speaker 2: of our own evs, they'll say it's no problem. And

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Speaker 2: if you're worried about towing a caravan or pulling a boat,

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Speaker 2: which is a legitimate concern, especially up here in the NT,

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Speaker 2: then you can always look at that plug in hybrid

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Speaker 2: option which allows you to drive during the day in

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Speaker 2: the V mode and then switch to fuel for longer

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Speaker 2: trips on when you're towing, so you know, and look.

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Speaker 1: I'm definitely not trying to push people away from an EV,

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Speaker 1: but in terms of like do you reckon, we're going

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Speaker 1: to see as well as more people do you know,

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Speaker 1: move that way, the price of petrol is going to

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Speaker 1: go up further because those fuel stations are going to

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Speaker 1: be trying to, you know, to keep the profits that

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Speaker 1: they've always had.

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Speaker 2: I think so. I think, as they said, they when

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Speaker 2: they start selling less fuel and we're already starting to

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Speaker 2: see that, then then they want to protect their profits.

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Speaker 2: So the only way they can do that is to

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Speaker 2: increase the margin. So I don't I don't think the

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Speaker 2: rise of bvs is going to you know, I don't

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Speaker 2: think it's good news for petrol owners because I don't

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Speaker 2: think the long term price of fuel is going to

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Speaker 2: drop by by any great amount.

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Speaker 1: So trading the cruiser and get a press or something

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Speaker 1: simon going for something. Well, there's so many more options now,

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Speaker 1: isn't there.

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Speaker 2: Well, there are, and there's more and more coming onto

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Speaker 2: the market. I think this notion around that there's so

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Speaker 2: many Chinese av's coming onto the market, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of people had that have the view that, you know,

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Speaker 2: cheap Chinese crap or whatever, but the quality is actually

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Speaker 2: pretty good. And I think the views that we hold

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Speaker 2: around Chinese cars are similar to the views that we

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Speaker 2: held around Japanese cars probably twenty or thirty years ago,

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Speaker 2: and those views have changed. So I think it's something

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Speaker 2: that it's going to become harder and harder to ignore.

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Speaker 2: So but again, I know that there are people who

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Speaker 2: love petrol vehicles, and I'm one of them, and most

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Speaker 2: of our members you know, love the petrol vehicles. So

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Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting that people, you know, get rid of

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Speaker 2: them tomorrow. But if you genuinely concerned about affordability, and

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Speaker 2: you know we've got to at announce yesterday around interest

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Speaker 2: rates or sorry, around inflation, you know, then maybe it's

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Speaker 2: something that people need increasingly need to start looking at.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll be something that people do look at interesting

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Speaker 1: as well though, just you know, as a bit of

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Speaker 1: a side path there. I saw over the last couple

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Speaker 1: of months, you know, the most popular cars being purchased

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Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory as well. And it's still the

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Speaker 1: old Highluks, the land Cruiser, all the all the tough

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Speaker 1: territory vehicles.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it correct? And the distance, the gap between those

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Speaker 2: vehicles and the next is quite significant. But increasingly, you know,

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Speaker 2: you've seen plug in hybrid options for these vehicles coming

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Speaker 2: onto the market, and they're a pretty good option for

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Speaker 2: up here because, as I said earlier, Katie, you can

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Speaker 2: do your day to day driving. Our trips are for

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Speaker 2: people that live in Darwin. Of our trips are around town,

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Speaker 2: so you can do your day to day trips in

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Speaker 2: ev mode, and when you need to do your longer

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Speaker 2: trips or tow the boat or drag the caravan, then

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Speaker 2: you can you can switch to petro mode, which gives

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Speaker 2: you that that range. So you know, and the quality

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Speaker 2: of these egles is pretty good. But again you know,

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Speaker 2: they're not cheap.

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Speaker 1: Yees, so it's always it's a bit of a juggle

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Speaker 1: for people. Now, simon, before I let you go, I mean,

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Speaker 1: just going back to the petrol prices, is it still

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Speaker 1: worthwhile for territorians to still shop around, to still try

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Speaker 1: and find the cheapest price that they can to fill up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, because we've still got this situation where fuel

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Speaker 2: prices around the city and Parap, you know, are consistently

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Speaker 2: cheaper than other parts of Balwin. So at the moment,

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Speaker 2: fuel at per Rap I think is around a dollar

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Speaker 2: seventy two and a half and in the city and

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Speaker 2: it's about a dollar seventy five I sidle in the

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Speaker 2: northern suburbs and then getting up to around dollar eighty

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Speaker 2: out at Parmesan. Even the dollar eighty four I think

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Speaker 2: at Parmesan at the moment, So yes, for some reason,

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Speaker 2: well I know the reason it's because of localized competition.

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Speaker 2: Prices are cheaper around Darwin and Pratty than they are Palmerston.

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Speaker 1: Just a quick question from one of our listeners saying, Katie,

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Speaker 1: thank you for getting the AA and T to come on.

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Speaker 1: Really keen to find out though, They're saying the question

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Speaker 1: answered as to why the fuel is cheaper in Catherine

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Speaker 1: then around Palmerston and surrounding areas, wondering if you've got

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Speaker 1: any info on why that is the case.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that, Katie. Yeah, so I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting though, isn't it like how they could be

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Speaker 1: selling it cheaper in Catherine then around Palmerston when you

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Speaker 1: would think we've got more competition around like Palmerston and

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Speaker 1: surrounds it is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And when you throw in the cost of phrase

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Speaker 2: as well, generally you'd have a high price at Katherine.

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Speaker 2: I don't know the answers to that. It could be

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Speaker 2: due to some local competition. You might have some operators

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Speaker 2: working in close proximity to each other. Who are you

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Speaker 2: going against each other? Has the effect of being everyone's

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Speaker 2: prices down.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, I hope I'm just going to keep talking

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Speaker 1: about it now, So I'm going to hope that it

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Speaker 1: makes people, you know, have a bit of a go at,

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Speaker 1: making it a bit cheaper so that people go there. So,

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Speaker 1: anyone listening this morning, if you've seen your petrol somewhere

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Speaker 1: a little bit cheaper, give us a call, send us

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Speaker 1: a message. I'll give them a shout out. Simon, we

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Speaker 1: better leave it there. It's always great to catch up

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Speaker 1: with you. I really appreciate your time this morning. Thanks Katie,

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much,