Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Yarning Up, a podcast that showcases stories of
Speaker 2: First Nations excellence to help us learn and unlearn Australia's
Speaker 2: history to work tillwards a better future. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Proud Barbara woman and founder of Black Wattle Coaching and Consulting,
Speaker 2: Caroline col This podcast was taped on the sacred, stolen
Speaker 2: and unseeded Aboriginal lands of the Runjuri people of the
Speaker 2: Coolan Nation. I pay my deepest respects to them, my elders,
Speaker 2: your elders, and all owners of country, of this beautiful
Speaker 2: place that we call home.
Speaker 1: Well, I am.
Speaker 2: So appreciative and I guess humbled to speak to my
Speaker 2: next guests. I think, out of all the people that
Speaker 2: I've spoken with, my uncle Jerry is someone who is
Speaker 2: a huge mentor of mine because he's just doing so
Speaker 2: many deadly things for mob community and our family back home.
Speaker 2: So I'm so grateful to sit down with you unk
Speaker 2: and yeah, really excited to connect in this way. So
Speaker 2: thank you for being with me today, Uncle Jerry.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for the invitation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that this week and have the last
Speaker 2: few weeks, you've been really busy out on country and
Speaker 2: it's so beautiful. We're down south, but we get to
Speaker 2: follow along all the work that you're doing, and it
Speaker 2: really fills me with Yeah, so much pride and so
Speaker 2: much power to see all the knowledge and the love
Speaker 2: and the care that's going back to country there, and
Speaker 2: I know that you and many others there are doing
Speaker 2: so much work. So yeah, thank you, thanks for well.
Speaker 2: I guess what we usually do on this show is
Speaker 2: we ask people you know, who are ya, where's your mob,
Speaker 2: and where you're from. But yeah, for the people who
Speaker 2: you know aren't related to you, like me, I wonder if, yeah,
Speaker 2: you could tell us a little bit about you and
Speaker 2: your story.
Speaker 3: Okay, my name is Jerry Turban from the athen Tablelands.
Speaker 3: I was born in Athens and grew up there and
Speaker 3: spent first part of my life, you know, growing up
Speaker 3: being stage school they're tolda then we shifted down to
Speaker 3: Victoria when I was about eight and finished off my
Speaker 3: schooling in the town of Shepton. And then we come
Speaker 3: back home. And so when I say home, back to
Speaker 3: the Athon table Lands in Barbarum in them Barbean tribe,
Speaker 3: and that's west of the Athenon table land. That's my
Speaker 3: grandma's tribe clan group area, so I mostly work in
Speaker 3: that area because my mum was involved as well. Also
Speaker 3: connected to waden EDINGI on my father's side that's tables
Speaker 3: around and Tolga also imagine on there which is what's
Speaker 3: up to watt Dingy and also cook a type and
Speaker 3: where another granddad comes from. It near the Moorhead River.
Speaker 2: Wow, I didn't know that you spent some time down
Speaker 2: here in shepperd And for school and yeah.
Speaker 1: That's that's deadly to hear because I think.
Speaker 2: Correct me if I'm wrong, But I think the way
Speaker 2: that we're connected is my nan Irene Reenie Wallace nee Walker,
Speaker 2: is your mum's sister.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's older sister, older sister. Yeah, yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm lucky enough to know. And yeah, so we've always
Speaker 3: known and she's given down and then she's been in
Speaker 3: contact with us. So yeah, that's a family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it, I think, because yeah, mum was you know,
Speaker 2: obviously taken, she was actually taken from I'm told she
Speaker 2: was born in INNISFL. But you know, it's been always
Speaker 2: this process of us making sure that we know who
Speaker 2: we are and where we come from. And yeah, always
Speaker 2: learning and connecting all of the dots. Say, well, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm really excited to chat with you because this week
Speaker 2: is NATOC Week and the theme is for our Elders.
Speaker 2: And you know, as I've said, I'm just in awe
Speaker 2: of what you're doing. But I wanted to ask you
Speaker 2: ONNK you know, what does NATOC week mean to you?
Speaker 2: And I guess you know, particularly thinking about yeah, this
Speaker 2: year's theme for our elders. Yeah, I wonder if you
Speaker 2: could share what NADOC you know, means for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so you know it's for me, it's remembering
Speaker 3: the elders and what they've done for us in the past.
Speaker 3: Particularly you know, first of you know, would be my
Speaker 3: parents and the closest elders that I had. We'll have
Speaker 3: and either one you know, go I just real life
Speaker 3: and teacher all sorts of stuff, you know, so they
Speaker 3: don't get into trouble and things like that. And then
Speaker 3: you know aunties and uncles. We've always been around and
Speaker 3: closely connected to them, and they've all got different things
Speaker 3: to share with you. And teacher. So you know, my dad,
Speaker 3: he had seventeen in the family, so you can imagine
Speaker 3: how big that family and mama sides, what's about thirteen
Speaker 3: forty something like that. So you've got all these aunties
Speaker 3: and uncles you know that yeah, connect with and then
Speaker 3: you know, you go out with them, bullshit with different
Speaker 3: ones and they teach you different things. But we grew
Speaker 3: up at a time where that come out of a
Speaker 3: like a mission or reserve, and they weren't allowed to
Speaker 3: talk about the cultural past. So they were forbidden to
Speaker 3: speak the language or you know, even talk about culture
Speaker 3: and things like that. So we kind of missed out
Speaker 3: on that part of life. Growing up. We were always
Speaker 3: taken out into the bush camping and fishing and just
Speaker 3: visiting places. And then later on when the elders started
Speaker 3: to open up, well, then we realized that these places
Speaker 3: they're actually cultural sites and sacred places. So while they
Speaker 3: went allowed to talk about it, they kept us connected
Speaker 3: to those places. And then you know, it sort of
Speaker 3: made sense then as where we got old and we
Speaker 3: sort of understood how things were. So yeah, and then
Speaker 3: that's when the cultural side of things start to happen
Speaker 3: for us. Sot of talking about that even language and
Speaker 3: taught us a better language and other things about our
Speaker 3: culture and country. And we're still in that process of
Speaker 3: learning about a language, culture and country.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder you know when you say when you
Speaker 2: were going out bush, I mean, do you have any
Speaker 2: like sort of moments when you went out bush that
Speaker 2: really stand out for you when you were a young
Speaker 2: fellow and like how old you were and where you
Speaker 2: went and yeah, what that sort of felt like it
Speaker 2: looked like for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, you know, it was always camping in different
Speaker 3: places and fishing and then wished to use spear guns
Speaker 3: and spears to spear their fish, you know, with a
Speaker 3: gold to go in the water and what we're trying
Speaker 3: to just copy our elders. You know, my dad and
Speaker 3: all these cousins they did the same thing, so you know,
Speaker 3: we wanted to do the same thing just using spears
Speaker 3: and began to catch your fish work in the bush
Speaker 3: and especially bush tucker as well. So you know we
Speaker 3: were impossible in Gangaroo as well. But on our side,
Speaker 3: we have Malay heritage. We grew up with eating a
Speaker 3: bush tracker with Asian spices. It was very good. And
Speaker 3: traditional foods were the freshwater turbine freshwater and what we
Speaker 3: call it jewfish or you'll tell catfish and they are
Speaker 3: not only food but their medicines as well for us.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2: When I was up on Country, I think it was
Speaker 2: maybe last year now, I was actually young with Arnie
Speaker 2: Cherry Turpin, and she said that she was trying to
Speaker 2: organize or she had organized a Turpen reunion and there
Speaker 2: was like five hundred plus people that were going to
Speaker 2: be invited and just talking about like the biggest mob there.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's really cool to hear that you were
Speaker 2: able to go out and learn about bush medicine and
Speaker 2: to fish. And I guess it's probably maybe no surprise
Speaker 2: about what led you onto your path then in becoming
Speaker 2: an etho bottom As I understand, ethnobotanists or ethnobotanists is
Speaker 2: the study between people and plants. And yeah, I'm wondering, Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you could share a little bit about what led
Speaker 2: to you on that path to become you know, a
Speaker 2: scientist and to learn about that.
Speaker 1: So it's so fascinating to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I had no idea myself what I was
Speaker 3: going to do after skill, because I wasn't the brightest
Speaker 3: bar out there and I left skill, you know, my
Speaker 3: first year was picking potatoes and the local paddicts and farms,
Speaker 3: and that's all I ever thought to do was picking
Speaker 3: fruit and working on farms and laboring jobs. There's never
Speaker 3: any sort of ambition to go any further than that.
Speaker 3: But it was I used to travel around, travel around
Speaker 3: Australia doing farm work and fruit picking, and it was
Speaker 3: on one of those level that I stopped in at
Speaker 3: Brisbane and just wanted to settle down a bit and
Speaker 3: I just stopped for a while and I got a
Speaker 3: job through the Employment Agency. It's a traineeship for a
Speaker 3: scientific assistant. I had no idea what that meant. I said,
Speaker 3: I'll give it a shot, and it turned out that
Speaker 3: it was for the Queensland and Barrion and it was
Speaker 3: under the Department of Primary Industries at the time. So
Speaker 3: it's changed names several times in the past, mainly due
Speaker 3: to elections. And then that's where it's all started, just
Speaker 3: as signific assistant and my job was to mount specimens,
Speaker 3: meaning you put press plans onto a piece of cardboard
Speaker 3: and you gleuw that down and put in folders and
Speaker 3: then it goes into the herb bearing so it's like
Speaker 3: a plant. Low Brarier offered a scholarship through the department,
Speaker 3: So I just gave it a shot and a bit
Speaker 3: of a shock to the system to go back to
Speaker 3: learning in a in a learning institution, but you know,
Speaker 3: I got through it and they gave it a go,
Speaker 3: and surprisingly, you know, at the end of it was
Speaker 3: I was doing pretty good. And it was there that
Speaker 3: I was pushed towards ethno botany through a lecture of
Speaker 3: my doctor, Susan Ane Smith. So yeah, that sort of
Speaker 3: started me on this journey. And then when I finished
Speaker 3: my degree, so I majored in botany, I was back
Speaker 3: at the herbarium and employed as a botanist, did some
Speaker 3: vegetation surveys and originally ecosystem mapping all over Queensland until
Speaker 3: I transferred up to Keynes to the Australian Tropical Ibarium
Speaker 3: where we started the Tropical Indigenous Ethnobotany Center. And and
Speaker 3: then that started through connecting the locals, just asking them
Speaker 3: what they would like terms of an ethnobotany center, and
Speaker 3: they were very supportive of it, and you know, they
Speaker 3: just wanted a place where they could come and store
Speaker 3: their knowledge or learn about plants. And since then we've
Speaker 3: had many range of hips this comes through and have a. Look,
Speaker 3: you mentioned the word ethnobotany. I still have to explain that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's still not a widely known feel but and I'll
Speaker 3: explained it this way. Is that ethlete ethno people in
Speaker 3: culture and botany the study of plants. So it's how
Speaker 3: we you know, as Abridgin people use the plants for
Speaker 3: our medicines, for food, tools, any structure or housing calendars,
Speaker 3: you know, like the calendar plants. So and so I
Speaker 3: go around promoting what ethno botany is to different people
Speaker 3: and to promote indigenous by our cultural knowledge and that
Speaker 3: there's a hidden resource in that ibuk and that it
Speaker 3: can work with Western science to provide solutions for the
Speaker 3: problems that we have today.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, what a journey from research assistem all the way
Speaker 2: up to your career now. And I guess hearing that
Speaker 2: it was sort of rooted in botany, which is just
Speaker 2: the plants. But then maybe what as you went through
Speaker 2: the process of learning, you realize, well, what, maybe it's
Speaker 2: more than just this. It's the relationship with the people,
Speaker 2: the culture and how they've used these plants for food
Speaker 2: and medicine. What an incredible journey, how amazing?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and I find. You know, it's not
Speaker 3: just about the plants. Yeah, the indigen's knowledge is holistic,
Speaker 3: so everything is connected to something else. So, you know, plans,
Speaker 3: it's not just about the food plants. You know, it
Speaker 3: could be taboo or some plants of family, all these sacreds,
Speaker 3: you know, all these different connections that are involved with
Speaker 3: their plants on country.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it feels like Western science is really only
Speaker 2: kind of catching up in a way with some of
Speaker 2: this knowledge. I know that you did a Deadly Ted talk.
Speaker 2: You were on the Ted X stage talking about the
Speaker 2: work that you're doing, and yeah, it's just really cool
Speaker 2: to see this blending of knowledges coming together because you're right,
Speaker 2: it is. It's that interconnectedness and that knowing of yeah,
Speaker 2: what was before. And I think because the world is
Speaker 2: in this like global crisis with climate change, and I
Speaker 2: think that first nation's knowledge is really critical to help
Speaker 2: offset some of these bigger social ills that we're seeing.
Speaker 2: So so cool that you're yeah leading the chart, especially
Speaker 2: for our family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2: Deadly I just get yeah, really I feel really yeah,
Speaker 2: a sense of pride because yeah, it's just incredible.
Speaker 1: I guess, speaking of which, you know.
Speaker 2: I know that you know, your family and our families
Speaker 2: have been really instrumental in getting land back back home.
Speaker 2: You know, I understand that it was like a fifteen
Speaker 2: year long process or something, you know, where many, many
Speaker 2: of you want.
Speaker 1: Mob fought really hard to.
Speaker 2: Be recognized and to have land provided back. And when
Speaker 2: I was up there last year, it was nice to
Speaker 2: see like family returning home and you know, Grandma Jean
Speaker 2: was there and was her surprise party, and Annie Sandra's there,
Speaker 2: and Annie Cherry's there, and I understand you're there and
Speaker 2: Pj's there, and.
Speaker 1: It's really really cool.
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if you could talk little bit about, yeah,
Speaker 2: what you mob have done, you know, in getting that
Speaker 2: land back, and what you follows have been doing since
Speaker 2: having that land back. I know that your mob have
Speaker 2: been doing so much work to preserve and give it
Speaker 2: back to the young ones too. So yeah, I'm wondering
Speaker 2: if you can share a bit about the whole process,
Speaker 2: if you can.
Speaker 3: The first lot of native title came in two thousand
Speaker 3: and one and I wasn't around at the time. I
Speaker 3: was still in Brisbane, but it was my mother, you know,
Speaker 3: Rita Turbin and Annie Jean Roses uncle Tom and John
Speaker 3: Mayson and a few of the other ot of state
Speaker 3: sort of work together to get that native title happening.
Speaker 3: You know, Mum and ai Jan from our clan group
Speaker 3: area the watching the area. They attended every meeting and
Speaker 3: we're heavily involved even before I came in Anti Gene.
Speaker 3: You know, she just recently had a birthday again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, she's eighty seven maybe, yeah, I think she's
Speaker 2: eighty seven now, and.
Speaker 3: She still attends meetings and she still travels, say, you know,
Speaker 3: and I always point to her, you know, as an
Speaker 3: example for the younger people that you know, sometimes it's
Speaker 3: not always about money, but it's about pride in country
Speaker 3: and things like that. So yeah, since then, we've sort
Speaker 3: of moved move forward, and then we got the second
Speaker 3: lot of native title, which I was involved in. Then
Speaker 3: prior to that, you know, when I came back where
Speaker 3: we held events on countries, mainly young trush Landers on country.
Speaker 3: So it was a mix of culture and science and
Speaker 3: just getting young people out on country to learn more
Speaker 3: of their culture, but also to learn about the science
Speaker 3: aspects of country as well. To see a lot of
Speaker 3: the eldest told me that while they have their knowledge
Speaker 3: and stories about how things were created and happened on
Speaker 3: the country. Things are happening so fast now that you know,
Speaker 3: environmental changes and things like that, that they said, oh,
Speaker 3: you've got to you know, you've got to work with
Speaker 3: Western science as well together. So that's how we've come
Speaker 3: about having this known tois NaNs on country and we've
Speaker 3: had several events on country and the kids just love
Speaker 3: it out, Their love learning both knowledges, and it's usually
Speaker 3: a big family event as well, and our visitors like
Speaker 3: to come along. A couple of years ago, we had
Speaker 3: our first cultural fire camp and we called it bringing
Speaker 3: back the Good Fire because through there, you know, we
Speaker 3: had these wild forest fires that just burnt everything to cinder.
Speaker 3: But ours was about bringing cultural fire back in a
Speaker 3: gentle way and teaching the young people that how to
Speaker 3: do that as well. So yeah, that was very good.
Speaker 3: We've got some other projects happening on country, the Bushtucker
Speaker 3: project and looking at novel root vegetables. We also got
Speaker 3: their medicinal plants projects as well, So yeah, communities involved
Speaker 3: and pretty excited about all that and learning more as
Speaker 3: we go along.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, wow, what a journey.
Speaker 2: Yeah I was, I was yearning with a cousin, Tash
Speaker 2: tush Roses, and she was talking about having done that
Speaker 2: fire burning course and what it meant for her to
Speaker 2: just go back and learn all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing.
Speaker 2: It's like, when we get these opportunities to have access
Speaker 2: to country, it provides so much for families and the
Speaker 2: wider community to come back and learn and you know,
Speaker 2: have have have that shared sense of pride.
Speaker 1: I wonder when you were.
Speaker 2: Talking about the bush tuckers and the medicines, I mean,
Speaker 2: I wonder if you could share a little bit of
Speaker 2: what type of bush tucker and medicines we would find
Speaker 2: up on country there for people who haven't been up
Speaker 2: to What's and Ville and haven't you know, stood foot
Speaker 2: on that beautiful place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what sort of stuff are you seeing?
Speaker 2: And are you seeing since you mob have had it
Speaker 2: back and all the cool burning and the fire burning,
Speaker 2: that things have been regenerated and restored.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've only had that one burn on country, but
Speaker 3: even with that, you know, we saw wallabies and another
Speaker 3: different animals, the turner, and so you know it made
Speaker 3: a difference. Already bushfoods, you know, you get your g bone.
Speaker 3: There's a small shrub tree, keep the fruits of that,
Speaker 3: and then they're made of arrow root and made of
Speaker 3: marshmallows so that they all come back after fire and
Speaker 3: raine different dams that come as well, So we're all
Speaker 3: trying those. The thing we have to think about is
Speaker 3: wild harvesting. So there's something that you can do wild
Speaker 3: harvesting and be sustainable. But then there's others that you know,
Speaker 3: you have to think about. Well, you know, if I
Speaker 3: continue to keep taking these out of the books, they
Speaker 3: might disappear. So we'll look at ways how it can
Speaker 3: grow them, hold a cultural setting and still maintain the nutrients,
Speaker 3: the same nutrients and the benefits from that particular plant.
Speaker 3: So those are things that we think about also with
Speaker 3: our medicinal plants, just getting back to using them in
Speaker 3: like the blood would resin high in any bacterial property,
Speaker 3: so we use those on saws and even I use
Speaker 3: it at a mouthws. Sometimes with these projects, you know,
Speaker 3: you're uncovering that hidden knowledge and bringing it back into
Speaker 3: the community, and the community has taking that on the
Speaker 3: board and using it, so you know, in fact, reinstall
Speaker 3: restoring culture, and that's what means of getting back land,
Speaker 3: even through Native title it's not perfect, but at least
Speaker 3: you have access to some country in land with culture.
Speaker 3: Language is very important, intertwined separation of even just one
Speaker 3: sort of you know things, there's something missn't so getting
Speaker 3: back on country and then we're relearning the language in
Speaker 3: culture as well and just moving forward with that.
Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't, I didn't.
Speaker 2: That's so cool to hear that there's a process of
Speaker 2: trying to uncover language, because as I understand through mum
Speaker 2: and stuff, that all of our language is basically lost.
Speaker 2: But when I was up on country last year, Grandma
Speaker 2: Jean kind of welcomed us in language and I was like,
Speaker 2: I didn't know that we had any of it left.
Speaker 2: But so there's a process of being happening now to
Speaker 2: sort of uncover more about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there were three hundred we've only got about
Speaker 3: three hundred words, but we were that's where things are. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: we're due to have another language workshop. So the elders
Speaker 3: used to say, you know, when you go on country,
Speaker 3: the country teaches you. So just being on country you
Speaker 3: start to learn things. And just for an example, I
Speaker 3: know now that the flowering of a certain model is
Speaker 3: the time to go fishing for Blackburn. The first full
Speaker 3: moon is that's when the fish have eggs, so you
Speaker 3: don't go fishing. So you know, there's little thing that
Speaker 3: you learn by just being on country. When you add language,
Speaker 3: there's hidden knowledge in that language. Once you learn the language,
Speaker 3: you sort of open up that knowledge and that sort
Speaker 3: of comes out and combined with the knowledge of country
Speaker 3: and then your culture as well, so knowledge and all
Speaker 3: those things and then combined together it starts to build
Speaker 3: up your culture again. On country.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're so right, Like country really is our single
Speaker 2: greatest teacher. And it's interesting to hear say that, Like
Speaker 2: when you see a particular wattle, you'd know that that's
Speaker 2: a time for fishing or hunting. But it's like because
Speaker 2: our mob had that ability to sort of be present
Speaker 2: and observe and watch, and it's like the older science,
Speaker 2: isn't it, Because you could watch something and predict a
Speaker 2: future event based off just what you can see, which
Speaker 2: is just yeah, so so cool. I know when I
Speaker 2: started my business, I was, you know, really wanting to
Speaker 2: honor mum and Nan and language and couldn't find any
Speaker 2: any language. But I know that there was a particular wattle.
Speaker 2: I think it's the sca perpotilia. It's the cupid's wattle
Speaker 2: that you sent me, and it blossoms around Herban when
Speaker 2: Nan was born, and it blossoms around Mother's Day, and
Speaker 2: so I thought that that would be a really nice
Speaker 2: way to honor Mum without having the words to describe it.
Speaker 2: And so that's why I named the company Black Wattle
Speaker 2: after that particular waddle, because I wanted to talk a
Speaker 2: little bit about country and Mum, but couldn't find the language,
Speaker 2: as you say, And also too, you know, with language,
Speaker 2: we're using words today that none of our old ones
Speaker 2: used to use, and so how can you describe feelings
Speaker 2: and thoughts and processes if we're not using our native tongue.
Speaker 2: So it's so cool to hear that you followers are
Speaker 2: doing more work to revive that language. And yeah, it
Speaker 2: feels like you followers have been very busy, very busy
Speaker 2: in a most beautiful way.
Speaker 1: So yeah, thank you for all of that. I wonder,
Speaker 1: in all of your.
Speaker 2: Years of working with plants and working with people, is
Speaker 2: there any plant that really stands out as being the.
Speaker 1: Most useful and versatile for our people?
Speaker 2: Like, is there any plant that just surprised you when
Speaker 2: you uncovered what it meant like in the traditional way.
Speaker 3: The peanut tree, which is always my favorite, and I
Speaker 3: did a little project on that while I was at Uni.
Speaker 3: So the peanut tree. And sometimes people say, oh, I
Speaker 3: didn't know peanuts grew on trees.
Speaker 1: I had no idea, but.
Speaker 3: This is a native peanut and yeah, and it does
Speaker 3: grow on trees. And in a pod. It's the same
Speaker 3: fame as a carriage on. So you know what para
Speaker 3: gong is and you know how the pod looks looks
Speaker 3: like it's similar to that. But inside those pods is
Speaker 3: an edible nut and some people say it tastes exactly
Speaker 3: like peanuts or similar say very nutritious as well. So
Speaker 3: you got the edible pods or the nuts in the pods.
Speaker 3: Then you got the leaves in the bark, which is medicinal,
Speaker 3: so you need news as eye wash another anti bacterial
Speaker 3: things that are happening. Then the inner bar you can
Speaker 3: make into strips, and up on the cape they made
Speaker 3: into ceremonial dresses or skirts which both women and men
Speaker 3: wear when they're doing the ceremonial dancers. And you know,
Speaker 3: if you go to the Laura Dance Festival, that's where
Speaker 3: you'll see a lot of those ceremonial dresses and things
Speaker 3: and people dancing. If anybody hasn't been, you know, that's
Speaker 3: the place to go. I may be buyers, but I
Speaker 3: consider that. You know, you will see the best dancers
Speaker 3: in Australia there, and that includes the Islanders as well
Speaker 3: if they're pretty spectacular event. But yeah, so that's my
Speaker 3: favorite tree and it's always been. We in fact just
Speaker 3: clicked some last week. It's in fruit.
Speaker 2: Wow, so it's both a food and a menace and wow,
Speaker 2: how fascinating.
Speaker 3: That's similar to a lot of plants. They have multiple uses,
Speaker 3: food and medicine. And I say that, well, yeah, your
Speaker 3: food is your medicine, except when it comes to KFC.
Speaker 1: With how mold do you love?
Speaker 2: Well, my family does laugh down here in good ways,
Speaker 2: but you're right, like the things we put into our
Speaker 2: body is what fuels are, so it's so important they.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I try to encourage people just having some
Speaker 3: some of that in their backyard. You know, some are
Speaker 3: really simple plans to grow and doesn't need to be
Speaker 3: managed much. Lemon myrtle and aniseed myrtle, native mulberries. Some
Speaker 3: people even have got the even though it grows into
Speaker 3: a large tree native peanut peanut?
Speaker 1: Is it the bunyard? Is that the bun Yeah?
Speaker 3: No, no, the bunya very different to the peanut tree. Yeah,
Speaker 3: bre these big mess of husks and very tall is
Speaker 3: like poetry. But yeah, you know, even a bunya if
Speaker 3: you know where to access it grabs. And we just
Speaker 3: had a camp out on country where we and we're
Speaker 3: done when previous as well, where we went foraging and
Speaker 3: collected bushtucker and I had this time, I had two chefs.
Speaker 3: So we're mixing bushtucker and modern culinary and technique. And
Speaker 3: we did that and we invited the community around honey
Speaker 3: gencome and you think like water seed damper at rosello
Speaker 3: source over kangaroo meat and very tasty in it. And
Speaker 3: that so like a teaching experience for people as well,
Speaker 3: where how they can use their bushtucker products in a
Speaker 3: modern way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, how deadly.
Speaker 2: That is amazing. And I know that you're a bit
Speaker 2: of a hulinary extraordinary you you know, pretty good with
Speaker 2: your cooking and your curries and making up things. Do
Speaker 2: you do you integrate bushtucka into your foods as well?
Speaker 3: Or yeah? Yeah, so I use those spices lemon, maniseed myrtle,
Speaker 3: and we have native pepper as well, native mince. So
Speaker 3: I use all those. But this last week we dug
Speaker 3: up our year just cooked better. So in two different ways.
Speaker 3: So kind of copied off the Islander torrest Rate Islander
Speaker 3: method of sopsalt, coconut milk and cassava and sweet preta
Speaker 3: or tara how they do it. So I just used
Speaker 3: with coconut milk and put in the aniseed myrtle as
Speaker 3: a flavor, and then also cut up one two chip
Speaker 3: sized use lemon, mertal salt and native pepper and fried
Speaker 3: it up like chips suple easy ways that you know,
Speaker 3: you can deal with things, that's the thing.
Speaker 2: I guess you can't get it wrong. If you just
Speaker 2: want to experiment with some things. Hey, just getting your
Speaker 2: hands on it. I know. I down here, I make
Speaker 2: up some lemon myrtle damper and some Johnny cakes and
Speaker 2: just try to get my hands on whatever we can
Speaker 2: down south.
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 2: Even in March, I got diagnosed with an autoimmune condition
Speaker 2: called loopus and it kind of sort of attacks my
Speaker 2: hands and my feet. I get really bad arthritic pains
Speaker 2: and some days I have like a flare up and
Speaker 2: I can't do many things. And I was working with
Speaker 2: an indigenous healer from Woka Woka Country. She's a counselor
Speaker 2: as well, but she introduces neutropathy and stuff into her
Speaker 2: practice because there's not many I guess there's not many
Speaker 2: people like you that I can who have traditional knowledge
Speaker 2: and Western knowledge combined. It's such a small industry. But
Speaker 2: she's got me onto gumby gumby teas and I take
Speaker 2: like I take a tea, but I take a drop
Speaker 2: in my mouth three times a day and I just
Speaker 2: leave it on my tongue just to sort of sort
Speaker 2: of like if you were to chew her plan back
Speaker 2: in the day, you try to mimic the same thing.
Speaker 2: And I've been on that for about I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe about a month and a bit. Now, two months now,
Speaker 2: I notice that my pain has subsided. I know they're
Speaker 2: doing some test around it because apparently it's like an
Speaker 2: anti inflammatory.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it just goes to show that, yeah, we
Speaker 1: had ways to stay well and to look after ourselves
Speaker 1: long before taking panadoles and all of those sort of
Speaker 1: other you.
Speaker 2: Know, opioids or benzos or whatever, and so it's just Yeah,
Speaker 2: when she gave me this stuff to put on my tongue,
Speaker 2: I was just like, Oh, it's just nice to know
Speaker 2: that there is some sort of medicine that I can
Speaker 2: take that feels like it's in my cultural shape, even
Speaker 2: though it's not from my country.
Speaker 1: But yeah, do you think with that ank that.
Speaker 2: Western science is taking Indigenous knowledge and medicine and food seriously? Like,
Speaker 2: is there a shift in how people understand the knowledge
Speaker 2: and and that you know, you're seeing a blending of
Speaker 2: knowledges coming together now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, more so I think there's I think they understand
Speaker 3: that the Aboriginal people have knowledge now that because the
Speaker 3: pharmaceutical companies are after new medicines because a lot of
Speaker 3: the elements are becoming resistance to build anybodys becoming resistant
Speaker 3: to those bacterias and things like that, so they're looking
Speaker 3: to indigenous medicine. They cut to the chase because if
Speaker 3: Indigenous people are using these plants or obviously it's working
Speaker 3: for them. So that's one of the reasons that the
Speaker 3: pharmaceutical companies are coming after indigenous plans. And they've been
Speaker 3: doing that since colonial time, so you know, they don't
Speaker 3: know if you heard of the pitchery plant from southwest
Speaker 3: Queensland and South Australia ran that central area. So that
Speaker 3: was like a drug which old men used for their
Speaker 3: ceremonies and long distance trap. But also they worked out
Speaker 3: two different classes, the strong one for the men and
Speaker 3: then the one that was so strong for the women
Speaker 3: and kids for their men that say, you know, I
Speaker 3: call them the first scientists. And so they studied that
Speaker 3: and out of that become a medicine for well I
Speaker 3: So when you have igery, they diload the pupils, so
Speaker 3: that medicine will diloat the pupils and that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: Also during the war, when the soldiers went in those
Speaker 3: open boats sailed the seas over to another country, they
Speaker 3: were all sea sick. So they used in indigenous medicines
Speaker 3: for that, you know, a pharmaceutical type. But one of
Speaker 3: our bush tomatoes yields a drug for sea sickness and
Speaker 3: women pregnancy when they get sick. So they've been using
Speaker 3: and then obviously the most more common ones are the
Speaker 3: eucalypt oils and malanouke oils. That's all abraginal medicine that
Speaker 3: they've been using. It's medicine that they've taken with the
Speaker 3: permission from Aboriginal people. The old people know our answers,
Speaker 3: we're sharing people, so they shared that knowing, but they
Speaker 3: didn't know that it was going to be used in
Speaker 3: a different way to make money for the benefit of
Speaker 3: pharmaceutical company. So Aberiginal people are well away now, so
Speaker 3: especially in Queensland where we have the Biodiscovery Act that's
Speaker 3: about research on biological material with its plants or animals.
Speaker 3: That was Queensland. Queensland were the first one to have
Speaker 3: that act in two thousand and four. The Queensland government
Speaker 3: got a group of Indigenous people like myself and others
Speaker 3: have involved in this area and we've reviewed and updoded
Speaker 3: the Queensland by Discovery Act to make it a better
Speaker 3: protection for Averisal people and that to make sure that
Speaker 3: every people are included in that research. And now any
Speaker 3: research on that any research and biological material has to
Speaker 3: have the permission of the traditional owners and they also
Speaker 3: have to be included and share the benefits as they
Speaker 3: should have been you know, see knowledge, so they should benefit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're right, Like I think a lot of
Speaker 2: our mob is so generous. Even in the earlier contact
Speaker 2: with frontier walls. As I understand, it was about yeah,
Speaker 2: sharing and giving and even today in modern modern times,
Speaker 2: I think we talk a lot about intergenerational trauma and stuff,
Speaker 2: but I think MOB are the most intergenerational, generous.
Speaker 1: And loving and kind and funny and all of those things.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of it's interesting to hear that, yeah,
Speaker 2: MOB would have provided that knowledge, but not fully understanding
Speaker 2: how it was going to be used and reproduced for
Speaker 2: financial gain. But that, yeah, that you MOB have done
Speaker 2: some work in the Biodiscovery Act to sort of protect
Speaker 2: that because it's a huge industry. Hey, like it, it's
Speaker 2: going to it could totally it could totally revolutionalize how
Speaker 2: MOB get access to things. So it's really does need
Speaker 2: to be protected and not being exploited.
Speaker 3: Hey yeah, and one other thing you know to say
Speaker 3: that that the Aboriginal people know that their medicine works. Obviously,
Speaker 3: that's why they use it. And you've experienced that Western
Speaker 3: society they they need scientific validation, that's what it is,
Speaker 3: that that going through the lab process of toxicity and
Speaker 3: finding out what's in it. So it's more for Western
Speaker 3: society to that they feel more comfortable in taking that
Speaker 3: medicine Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: One of those things whether two like ideologies just clash,
Speaker 2: isn't it Like Western science is all about proving and
Speaker 2: discovery and you know, getting the stamp of approval and
Speaker 2: then reproving it and testing it again, whereas you know,
Speaker 2: Indigenous knowledge is just about like annoing because they've observed,
Speaker 2: they understand the landscape. They observed it for so long
Speaker 2: that they were able to predict a future the algorithm.
Speaker 2: It's like these two ideologies combining. But it sounds like
Speaker 2: there's a lot of work being done to sort of
Speaker 2: bridge this, and yeah, I think maybe modern science is
Speaker 2: just kind of catching up in a way.
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, yeah, hopefully you know that the work
Speaker 3: continues together. Society is like the Ecological Society of Australia.
Speaker 3: They've embraced what this term few a knowledge and that's
Speaker 3: a term from over the West. So it's about, you know,
Speaker 3: the two knowledges working together. They've embraced Abriiginal people and
Speaker 3: the knowledge forever more than ten years now so as
Speaker 3: a Director of Indigenous Engagement on the board of the ESA,
Speaker 3: and they've made some good progress in including average people.
Speaker 3: They've got their own lots imposing where Aboriginal people just
Speaker 3: come and talk about, you know, not in a scientific
Speaker 3: presentation a way, but just yearning basic in on country,
Speaker 3: what they're doing to protect certain species, in partnerships with
Speaker 3: research researchers and research institutions, and they just talk, you know,
Speaker 3: you get the ladies from the Central Desert just come
Speaker 3: and talk about what they're doing in country, and it's
Speaker 3: really great and it's always packed out. So the gradual
Speaker 3: society is leading the way, but others are taking a
Speaker 3: suit now and even Queensland government is looking at ways
Speaker 3: how to improve relationships and working with Aboriginal people, and
Speaker 3: I guess that's probably happening in other states as well,
Speaker 3: So you know, slowly but sure, things are happening in
Speaker 3: that relationship building arena.
Speaker 1: Oh that's deadly to hear that.
Speaker 2: God, I'd love to be a fly on the world
Speaker 2: to listen to some of you mob just yarning up
Speaker 2: about what you all know.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's amazing. Wow, I'm learning so much.
Speaker 2: I knew that I would come into this conversation walking
Speaker 2: away with even more knowledge and yeah, and even more understanding.
Speaker 2: There's a question that we pose to all of our
Speaker 2: listeners on this show, which I want to ask you
Speaker 2: because I know that you Yeah, I'm keen to understand.
Speaker 1: But we like to ask people what person or practice
Speaker 1: do they do to stay well?
Speaker 2: We know that like with all our work and family
Speaker 2: and community, you know, many of us are juggling a
Speaker 2: lot of things and not everyone like you and others
Speaker 2: have access to country. I guess to heal, but yeah,
Speaker 2: what do you do when you're not out on country
Speaker 2: or yeah, what do you do to stay well and
Speaker 2: to yeah, look after yourself.
Speaker 3: I do try to get out on the country. That's
Speaker 3: one of the main things that I try to do.
Speaker 3: But if I can't, you know, there's there's always a
Speaker 3: bit of forest around that we can access or go
Speaker 3: for a walk in and and I find that very relaxing.
Speaker 3: And it's even scientifically proven that just you know, just
Speaker 3: half an hour walking in the forest sort of refreshes
Speaker 3: your mentality and spirit and things things like that. So
Speaker 3: that's what I mainly try to do. I also like
Speaker 3: playing the guitar, just a bedroom guitars too, ironically playing
Speaker 3: the blues, which kind of makes me happy.
Speaker 2: It's funny, the blues and country tend to make us
Speaker 2: a lot happier. They like the saddest genres.
Speaker 3: And then the other thing is just drawing out new recipes,
Speaker 3: cooking for something you know. Hm, But it's great if
Speaker 3: you can do all those three things to get on
Speaker 3: country with family and friends. Yeah, yeah, that's the best.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so beautiful, combining music and singing and laughing
Speaker 2: and cooking and just yeah, sitting around with family on countries.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Truly something special, isn't it. Oh that's a beautiful self
Speaker 2: care list. And you're right, you don't always have to
Speaker 2: be on country per se to access the benefits of it.
Speaker 2: You can go for a walk in any forest, in
Speaker 2: any park and just take a moment for yourself at
Speaker 2: any time. Well, all right, I've got one final question
Speaker 2: for your unc and I guess it's you know, in
Speaker 2: thinking about this year's theme for our elders, I think
Speaker 2: you know, so many of us young ones, we owe
Speaker 2: great thanks to you, mob and the people of the
Speaker 2: NaNs and Grandma Jeans and you know, Bessie Walk and
Speaker 2: all of the you know, the people that have come
Speaker 2: before us. And I know that a lot of us
Speaker 2: young ones are you know, struggling to find our place
Speaker 2: in this world at the moment. So I want to
Speaker 2: know if you could give any of our young listeners
Speaker 2: any advice right now? Yeah, what would you say to
Speaker 2: sort of ge them up as we navigate this well
Speaker 2: we find ourselves in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the things I learned from the elders
Speaker 3: was resilience. Now, sometimes I talk about the bad stories,
Speaker 3: but you know, they carry on and they're still very
Speaker 3: welcoming and very hospitable in my country and accept into
Speaker 3: their family. So you know, I guess resilience and being
Speaker 3: able to carry on through all that, you know, the pars,
Speaker 3: things like that, and you know they can still have
Speaker 3: these relationships with all different people. So yeah, I think
Speaker 3: that's the main thing that I've learned.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just to keep going, I think, Yeah, just to
Speaker 2: keep keep going and keep holding your head high and yeah,
Speaker 2: never forgetting where we've come from, but also being grateful
Speaker 2: for the future and what we've got in store.
Speaker 1: Yeah. They are a resilient bunch, aren't they.
Speaker 3: I'm just from my own experience and mentioned it first
Speaker 3: job as a Plato picker. If any opportunities cannot take it,
Speaker 3: education is important, so it gives you more options, but
Speaker 3: you just have a go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, just say yes. And you never know
Speaker 2: what could happen where it could lead to you. By
Speaker 2: the sounds of it. Oh well, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for connecting with me in this way. It feels, you know,
Speaker 2: interesting to connect with family on podcasts. But yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: just so grateful for you and your time and and
Speaker 2: everything you're doing. And yeah, I can't wait to get
Speaker 2: back up there and see what's happening on country when
Speaker 2: I'm When i'm there next, I'm sure there'll be so
Speaker 2: much that's happened in that time.
Speaker 1: So yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you again for the invitation. Happy to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Thank you so much for listening you mob.
Speaker 2: If you are vibing this season of Yarning up, then
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Speaker 2: by visiting www. Dot Caroline Coow dot com dot au