1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Daily This is the 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning, and 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: welcome to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday, the twenty fifth 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: of June. I'm Billy Fitzsimon's I'm Sam Kazlowski. For nearly 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: two weeks now, Iran and Israel have been engaged in 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: a war that has kept the world anxiously waiting to 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: see what happens next. As we have covered this week already, 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: the US effectively entered the war by bombing the three 9 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: nuclear sites in Iran, which Iran responded to by launching 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: missile strikes on US military basis in Qatar. Yesterday on 11 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: the podcast, we asked what you still wanted to know, 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 1: and we were inundated with questions, So today we are 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: answering them. 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: Billy, before we get into the podcast, I think it's 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: important to kind of ground ourselves in when we're recording this. 16 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 2: So we're recording this late on Tuesday. And the only 17 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: reason I'm saying that is just because of how quickly 18 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: the situation can change. In this story, give us a 19 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 2: sense right now of where things are at as you 20 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 2: and I are having this discussion. 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, So just to catch everyone up some very brief 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: contexts to start us off. So, Israel and Iran have 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: been at war for about two weeks now, when Israel 24 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: sent over the first missiles with the aim of destroying 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: Iran's nuclear capabilities. Now, over the past weekend that we 26 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: just had, the US effectively entered the war by bombing 27 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: three nuclear sites in Iran. Like I mentioned earlier, and 28 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: a key bit of context here is that the US 29 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: is Israel's closest ally and so then yesterday morning we 30 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: woke to the news that Iran had retaliated against the 31 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: US with strikes on an American military base in Qatar. 32 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: And that was one of America's well, that was America's 33 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: most important military base in the Middle East. 34 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, America has about forty thousand US troops in the 35 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: Middle East. Yeah, a large presence there. So there was 36 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: an expectation that Iran would retaliate after the US strikes 37 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 2: on the weekend, and sure enough this happened. Of course, 38 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 2: because it's President Trump, we found out via our truth. 39 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: Social yes, his own social media platform. If you want 40 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 1: any more context about what has happened over the past 41 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: two weeks, I recommend going back and listening to some 42 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: of our other podcasts, which we'll give you a bit 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: more context about what has happened. But back to what 44 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: did happen yesterday. So Iran retaliated like we said, and 45 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: Trump called Iran's response week and then hours later Trump 46 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: actually declared that there had been a ceasefire between Israel 47 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: and Iran. Now he said, like we said. Sam on 48 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: his own social media platform, True Social he said, it 49 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: has been fully agreed by and between Israel and Iran 50 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: that there will be a complete and total ceasefire. He added, 51 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: this is a war that could have gone on for 52 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: years and destroyed the entire Middle East, but it didn't 53 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: and it never will. It was a bit of an 54 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: odd way to find out that there had been this ceasefire, 55 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: because it obviously wasn't from either of the two key parties, 56 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: being Iran or Israel. Now, it was quite confusing yesterday 57 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: afternoon here in Sydney trying to figure out whether or 58 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: not there definitely had been this ceasefire agreement. Eventually, after 59 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: a few hours, both Iran and Israel confirmed there had 60 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: been this seasfire. But then literally within minutes or maybe 61 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: just under an hour, we heard from the IDF that 62 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: Iran had launched missiles, and then Israel confirmed that they 63 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: had launched missiles in response to that, so the ceasefire 64 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: had broken effectively. 65 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: Billy, I want to go to some audience questions now, 66 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: and let's start with a really easy one. Essentially, are 67 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: we heading towards World War three? And you and I 68 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: have talked about this quite a bit over the past 69 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: two weeks. There's a couple of ways to tackle this. 70 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: What's your answer, Well, I think this is the one 71 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: that kind of in my friendship circles. Everyone is asking 72 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: this question, and even on Google searches, on Google trends, 73 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: you can see that over the past two weeks, searches 74 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: for whether or not there will be World War three 75 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: have completely spiked. What's hard about this is that there 76 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: is no set definition of. 77 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 2: A world war, and that's so interesting. 78 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: I didn't know this, so I wanted the Daily Ods 79 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: to do a post on this last week because I 80 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: thought it was such an interesting question that so many 81 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: of us were asking. But it was really hard to 82 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: answer because there's no globally accepted definition of what is 83 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: a world war, and so there's nothing to say that 84 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: if X happens, then we're officially in a world war. 85 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: Historians do generally accept that a world war is a 86 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:59,239 Speaker 1: conflict that draws in multiple countries with direct involvement. But again, 87 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: there's no wee exact number of how many countries need 88 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: to get involved for it to officially be declared a 89 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: world war. 90 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 2: I've read some commentary from historians when we were doing 91 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: this sticking that it also can be determined by the 92 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 2: number of continents involved. I mean, there's so many different 93 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: ways to kind of chop this up, but at the 94 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 2: end of the day, it does seem like it's a 95 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: little bit I don't want to make this too crass, 96 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 2: but it does seem like it's a bit of a 97 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: kind of vibe. Yeah, and it's a bit of kind 98 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: of when somebody says it, then that's what it is. 99 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing to note that tda's political journalist Harry 100 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: was discussing last week when we were all talking about 101 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: this in the office, is that after nine to eleven, 102 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: the US of course invaded Afghanistan, and while that conflict 103 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: escalated and brought in multiple countries, including Australia, it wasn't 104 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: considered a world war. And I thought that was a 105 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: really good point that that is a conflict where there 106 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: were many countries involved and it wasn't considered a world war. 107 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: But it's this really interesting question of how do you 108 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,119 Speaker 1: define a world war? 109 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: And I think that you know, so, there might be 110 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 2: points where some leaders do come out and say it 111 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 2: is a world war. And if that's not almost endorsed 112 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: by the international community and adopted as the view, then 113 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,559 Speaker 2: I'm sure you won't have consensus even then about whether 114 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: it's a world war or not. On the other hand, 115 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: I do feel like if there's conflicts that almost unify, 116 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 2: if there's alliances between say Russia, China and Iran, all 117 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: of a sudden, it does feel like one battlefield, and 118 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: that I could imagine the term world war being used. 119 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 2: But I do want to say, just to settle everyone's anxiety, 120 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 2: we're a long way from that. We are a long. 121 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: Way, yes, and yet the answer to it today is 122 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: we're not in World War three and we are not 123 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: close to it at the moment. 124 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: I'm keen to ask you another question, but just quickly, 125 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: let's hear from our sponsor. Well, let's talk a little 126 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: bit more about us, and by us, I mean here 127 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: in Australia, we had a lot of questions from people 128 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: asking about the local impact and how we and how 129 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 2: we would be affected by the growing conflicts in the 130 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 2: Middle East. What's your take on that. 131 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the first thing to say is that 132 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: Australia's Prime Minister, Anthony Alberanezi has been at pains to 133 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: emphasize in all of the press conferences that he has 134 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: done over the past few weeks that Australia is not 135 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: a central player in this conflict at all like the 136 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: US is for example. You know, we're not a key 137 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: ally of Israel or Iran, so in terms of our 138 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: domestic and national security, there's very minimal impact, if at all, 139 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: there in saying that Australia is a key ally of 140 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: the US. And so the Australian government has said that 141 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: it supports what the US did in bombing the nuclear 142 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: sites in Iran, but that's kind of been the extent 143 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: of our involvement in this. One thing it could impact 144 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: though for Australians is travel well, actually it already has 145 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: impacted the travel for many Australians both leaving Australia and 146 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: also many who are trying to come back home to Australia. 147 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: And this is impacting people, even if they're not trying 148 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: to go to the Middle East, which I imagine now 149 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: is very few people for travel. There's not really one 150 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: answer here, I think, just as a general statement, the 151 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: world's airspace has definitely been impacted, and basically at the 152 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: drop of a hat, there have been airspaces, especially over 153 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: the Middle East, that have been completely closed and that 154 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: has impacted certain routes. For example, Dubai, which is one 155 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: of the busiest airports in the world and is a 156 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: stopover for many flights leaving Australia, that has of course 157 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: been impacted. But I'm sure for anyone who has booked 158 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: flights that are coming up in the coming weeks, it's 159 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: something to check in with the airline that you're flying with. 160 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: As we all know all too well, even if there's 161 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: no direct cancelations that affect you, there's always a backlog 162 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: of traffic and there's always systems that are a little 163 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: bit more under stress, be it at airport security or this. 164 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 2: So it will definitely impact anyone traveling internationally, I'd say 165 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: for the next couple of weeks at least. 166 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would check Smart Traveler for wherever you 167 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: are heading, they have a lot of detailed information about 168 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: any security risks about destinations all over the world. 169 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: Another way it could impact Australians though, is not those 170 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 2: traveling but those who remain here, and it could impact 171 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: us at the petrol tank or at the supermarket. 172 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Iran is a major oil producer and with 173 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: this conflict there is of course the chance that their 174 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: oil production facilities could be damaged, or even if they 175 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 1: haven't been damaged, the aspect of the transport getting from 176 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: Iran to other places around the world will inevitably be impacted. 177 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: And so there is the expectation that this is going 178 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: to likely mean that there will be lower global supply 179 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: of oil and that will of course impact petrol prices. 180 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: So there's the expectation that petrol prices will likely go up, 181 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: imagine by quite a lot in the coming weeks. 182 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: Well, there's kind of two ways to think about that. 183 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: You're totally right that it's about whether the supply of 184 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: oil has been damaged by an if the strikes and 185 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 2: some of the logistical challenges of getting oil out of 186 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: a country that's in the middle of kind of a 187 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 2: state of war. The other aspect, though, is that it 188 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 2: could actually be used by Iran as a global response, 189 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 2: so they could actually say we're not sending as much 190 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 2: oil out into the. 191 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: World as in they could gatekeep it. 192 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 2: Exactly, And because it's such a major distributor of oil, 193 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: that could be quite a powerful way to affect the 194 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: economies of those that you're wishing to target. In either 195 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 2: of those cases, You're right, it could be quite quick. 196 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 2: And it's not even necessarily going to rise in price 197 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: because there's not as much oil right here on that day. 198 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: It's more about the price in anxiety and people perhaps 199 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 2: panicking and going to fill up tanks of petrol because 200 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: they think it might get it more expensive later. 201 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: So there's instantly more demand. 202 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 2: Exactly, and that's where kind of panic can take over 203 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: economic markets. And you see that vision, it's almost like COVID, right, 204 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: it's supermarkets. You see vision of empty shelves all. 205 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: Over the place. So likely we're not there yet. 206 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: We're not there yet. I feel like there's a lot 207 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: of well. 208 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: We shouldn't use the word yet, because we don't know 209 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: if we'll get that again. There could be the ceasefire 210 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: and this could be over. 211 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: I'd be pretty comfortable saying that we'll see some impact 212 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: on petrol prices, but I don't think it's going to 213 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 2: be you know, dramatic at this stage. Yeah, Okay, so Billy. 214 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 2: One of the other aspects of this story that's coming 215 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: up a lot in the way that global leaders are 216 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: talking about potential Iranian responses is this idea of terror 217 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 2: attacks being used by Iran, state sponsored terror attacks being 218 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 2: used by Iran as a response against those who attacks them, 219 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 2: being the US and its allies, including Australia. So the 220 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 2: questions that we got were kind of, what are the 221 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 2: chances of a terrorist attack in western countries and have 222 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 2: those chances gone up in the past couple of days. 223 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: Just quickly on that. I think one thing that's also 224 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: perhaps important to note is that there could be the 225 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: state sponsored terrorism attacks, but then also we have seen 226 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: that the tension amongst communities is particularly high at the moment, 227 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: not just from the past two weeks, but over the 228 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: past two years, and so you could also have sole 229 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: actors who emerge from that and conduct terrorist attacks that 230 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: aren't necessarily on behalf of Iran. 231 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 2: And we've heard that from Australia's security leadership that the 232 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 2: temperature is higher exactly at a social level here in 233 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 2: Australia and at an international level. 234 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: As well, and it's actually because of that that the 235 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: temperature amongst the communities is so high at the moment 236 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: that in August of last year, Australia's national terrorism threat 237 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: actually increased to probable. And so what that means is, 238 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: according to Australian security officials, they say, it means that 239 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,599 Speaker 1: there is quote a greater than fifty percent chance of 240 00:12:54,679 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: an onshore attack or attack planning in the next twelve months. Again, 241 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: in terms of why it is at this level, it 242 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: does specifically mention what is happening in the Middle East. 243 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: So it says the rise of individual grievance narratives and 244 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: how they are expressed are impacting society's ability to find 245 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: common ground. It goes on a little bit more, but 246 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: then it says global events such as the conflict in 247 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: the Middle East have resonated in Australia and will continue 248 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: to do so. So that's more talking about those isolated incidents. 249 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: Prime Minister Anthony Alberanezi was asked this week if there 250 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: is an increased threat of terrorism in Australia now after 251 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: what we have seen over the past two weeks, and 252 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 1: he said that ASIO, the National Security Agency here in Australia, 253 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: is constantly monitoring, but he said there has been no 254 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: change in any of the advice that has been issued. 255 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 2: And if you look at the way that that's being 256 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 2: framed in the US, it's a little different, and I'd 257 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: say that's because the US is a much more direct 258 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 2: actor in this. So the US Department of Homeland SEC, 259 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 2: for example, it's said in the statement that there is 260 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 2: a heightened threat environment in the US and that the 261 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: conflicts could contribute to US based individuals plotting additional attacks. 262 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 2: But I think it's a little different in Australia. We 263 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 2: haven't got that direct involvement and we haven't had the 264 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: same language being used by our leaders. Billy, I've got 265 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: one more question, and it's a bit of a different 266 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 2: type of question. It's more a question about, as our 267 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 2: editor in chief, how you kind of run our newsroom here. 268 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 2: And the question that we get a lot is about 269 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: how we use our comments section and more specifically, why 270 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: we turn it off on posts that are related to 271 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: what's been happening in the past two weeks. Talk us 272 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: through the decisions being made behind the scenes and what 273 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: goes into a decision like that. 274 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I guess we're talking about it now in 275 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: light of the past two weeks, but we've been having 276 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: conversations about this over the past two years, especially in 277 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: light of what has been happening with the Israel jamaswa 278 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: in Gaza, because of course, we receive so many different 279 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: messages from our audience to know why exactly we do 280 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: have to turn our comment section off, and the answer 281 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: is because of hate speech. You know, whenever we have 282 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: left the comments on, it has spiraled into hate speech, 283 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: into racist comments. Sometimes it is between audience members to 284 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: other audience members. Sometimes it's from audience members to members 285 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: of the TDA staff room. And we obviously have an 286 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: obligation to protect employees at TDA. I mean, to be 287 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: completely honest, we are a small team, and to moderate 288 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: that kind of conversation when it has spiraled into thousands 289 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: of comments of hate speech, we can't moderate that. It's impossible. 290 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 2: And just to add to that, there's this whole other 291 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: aspect of this that's important that I spend a lot 292 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 2: of time thinking about, and that's our legal obligations and 293 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: our kind of obligations to the profession of journalism. So 294 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: there's the MEAA code, which is the Media Ethics Alliance. 295 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: They have a code about how responsible publishers should be 296 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: moderating hate speech. The United Nations has a code for 297 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: media on how hate speech should be moderated. There's also 298 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 2: always risk of defamation lawsuits, you know, causing damage to somebody, 299 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 2: mental damage to somebody by allowing comments to be there. 300 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 2: And if we had a bigger team, and if we 301 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: were a more well resourced newsroom and not you know, 302 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 2: under twenty people all age thirty and below, who are 303 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: giving this whole media thing a crack, then we would 304 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 2: do stuff like have full time moderators and perhaps you 305 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: would see more open comments sections, but ones that are 306 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 2: tightly moderated minute to minute. But it is interesting, as 307 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 2: you said, that even the biggest media organizations in the world, 308 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 2: those with almost unlimited resources, even those guys aren't keeping 309 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: up with minute to minute moderation. And everybody is really 310 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: feeling like in the best interests of their readers and 311 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 2: their staff that limiting comments on social media when you 312 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 2: can see evidence that it's descending into a bit of chaos, 313 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 2: seems to be the responsible move there. 314 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: I was going to say, in the ABC, who has 315 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: thousands of employees and does have full time moderators, they 316 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: are still turning off their comments on pretty much all 317 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: posts when it comes to the Middle East. 318 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: And I think it's a real shame because there are 319 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 2: in all of those posts really interesting conversations that are 320 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: happening between good natured people who are curious about the 321 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 2: world around them and how this affects the changing nature 322 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: of their worlds. I think there's a lot of good 323 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: stuff in there, but as you've just said, we can't 324 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 2: really expose ourselves or our people, or our listeners and 325 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 2: readers to that sort of risk, and it's going to 326 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: be a challenging next couple of months. I think. I 327 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 2: think this is not going to get any karma just yet, 328 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 2: or certainly not going to get less complex. Yeah, and 329 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 2: so I think we've got the responsibility to our listeners 330 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: to keep them in the loop with how we're making 331 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 2: these sorts of decisions and hopefully doing the best job 332 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 2: at explaining what's going on as we possibly can. 333 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: One other thing that I just want to add is 334 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: that I hope no one listened to that thought that 335 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: it's because the Daily ODS doesn't believe that we should 336 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 1: be criticized at times. You know, criticism of media outlets 337 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: around the world is an important part of any democracy, 338 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: and it's got nothing to do with that. It's when 339 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: the comments cross the line of being personal, racist or 340 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: being hate speech that we have to draw a line 341 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: and protect people. But it's not because we believe that 342 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: TDA shouldn't be criticized. 343 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 2: No, it's one of the best bits of a modern 344 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 2: democracy is free and fair press. We're always going to 345 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 2: do our best to try and protect that. Definitely, Billy, 346 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 2: thank you for a really difficult but a really interesting conversation. 347 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: They're a fast moving one as well. I would encourage 348 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 2: people to keep an eye on our Instagram throughout the 349 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 2: day if they want to keep up to speed with 350 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 2: some of the developments that happen throughout the day. It's 351 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 2: always good to come back to the podcast have a 352 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: listen to kind of get a sense of the big picture. 353 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 2: But if you wanted more of those up to speed 354 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 2: updates will always be over there on social media. Up Billy, 355 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 2: thank you so much, Thank you, and thank you for 356 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 2: listening to the Daily Ods this morning. Going to be 357 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: back with some headlines later this afternoon until then have 358 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 2: a great day. 359 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: Bye. 360 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 2: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 361 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 2: Bungelung Calcoton woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 362 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 363 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 2: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 364 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: Strait Island and nations. 365 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 366 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: both past and present.