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Speaker 1: Joining me in the studio right now is the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Good morning, commissioner.

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Speaker 1: Good to have you back on the show for twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one, and no doubt it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: busy year, it always is.

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Speaker 2: Can we cover the issue which has really.

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Speaker 1: Got people concerned at the moment, that is the issue

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Speaker 1: of youth crime in Alice Springs. The message that we're

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Speaker 1: hearing loudly and clearly is the police are doing the

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Speaker 1: best they can under very difficult circumstances. How are things

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Speaker 1: going in Alice from a police perspective, Look.

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Speaker 3: It's definitely an upward trend down there at the moment,

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Speaker 3: there's no denying that. And the latest stats that I've

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Speaker 3: had a look at are indicating an increase in property

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Speaker 3: crime of about fifty percent of unlawful entries. Now we

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Speaker 3: know that's been heavily skewed by that day of twenty

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Speaker 3: five breaks. We know that there was two eight year

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Speaker 3: olds with no prior real history exposed that just did

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Speaker 3: multiple businesses. These businesses were a mix of retail businesses,

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Speaker 3: indigenous art galleries, legal services, community services, not for profits.

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Speaker 3: So there was no real organization in any of this approach.

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Speaker 3: We believe there was about six youth ultimately responsible for that,

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Speaker 3: including those two year olds. It was a significant aberration

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Speaker 3: to how things were traveling. But then what's promulgated that

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Speaker 3: is the broader activity, certainly in the social media space,

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Speaker 3: is showing what that continuation has been. We've made a

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Speaker 3: significant step forward. We've put further police back into them

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Speaker 3: all consistently. So whilst we've seen now a reduction in CBD,

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Speaker 3: unlawful entries and property crime, we've seen a little bit

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Speaker 3: still starting to occur in our suburbs and our viper

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Speaker 3: team are working across evenings and night shifts. Our drone

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Speaker 3: team are out and about, so we've been very very

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Speaker 3: proactive as well as also we're working with the multi

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Speaker 3: agencies and back to school this week is something that

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Speaker 3: we're very much pushing.

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Speaker 2: For two eight year olds, but six in total.

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Speaker 1: Is a suggestion that the older kids were potentially grooming

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Speaker 1: the younger ones.

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Speaker 3: Intact, this was two indiscriminate groups. As I understand it,

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Speaker 3: it's just these two young eight year olds side by

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Speaker 3: side and just you know, unfortunately part of it is

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Speaker 3: they see all this imagery. Unfortunately, are exposed to social media.

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Speaker 3: They do have a level of sophistication around understanding social media.

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Speaker 3: They see this type of image and they believe it's

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Speaker 3: something that you do, and this is part of what

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Speaker 3: we've got to contend with as well.

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Speaker 1: So you reckon that the social media side of things

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Speaker 1: is encouraging them to commit christ I.

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Speaker 3: Think the social media is trying to play a very

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Speaker 3: important part of public awareness and messaging, but we've got

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Speaker 3: to balance that about causing genuine fear and apprehension in

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Speaker 3: the community. There is no doubt that Alice Springs community

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Speaker 3: residents feel vulnerable, they feel under siege. We've got a

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Speaker 3: step forward, as we've continually done. We are not going

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Speaker 3: to leave the residents of Alice Springs to the own devices.

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Speaker 3: We are there to help, will continually be there to help.

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Speaker 3: We're working twenty four to seven to try and make

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Speaker 3: sure that we can get in front of this. We

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Speaker 3: know when we get the recidivius defenders under control that

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Speaker 3: we can balance this out. With school holidays now coming back,

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Speaker 3: we're very hopeful that a lot of those younger kids

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Speaker 3: in particular will be engaged during the day, so education

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Speaker 3: are already on the front foot trying to do the

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Speaker 3: level of re engagement, as are our people.

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Speaker 2: How are your officers going in Alla Springs.

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt that it would have to have an impact,

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Speaker 1: you know, battling the same issues each and every day.

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Speaker 2: I understand that they're incredibly professional.

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Speaker 1: This is exactly what they're trained for, but I would

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Speaker 1: still suspect that it has an impact on morale.

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Speaker 3: Look it does. I mean, this is occurring in their home.

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Speaker 3: They live there. This town is their home, their families,

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Speaker 3: their friends all live there. So it's hard not to

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Speaker 3: take it personal. You want to make a difference, but

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Speaker 3: what we're seeing in Alice Springs is an aberration to

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Speaker 3: a degree of what's occurring elsewhere. So we have the

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Speaker 3: same laws and legislation in place across the whole of

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Speaker 3: the Northern Territory. But we're trending at about sixty percent

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Speaker 3: reduction and unlawful entries in Casirina, about thirty percent reduction

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Speaker 3: in Parmesan, and in Darwin. Catherine's had a fairly good reduction,

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Speaker 3: but Tenant Creek and Alice Springs have both had a

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Speaker 3: significant rise. We've seen an increase in endimestic violence reporting

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Speaker 3: as well, and we know that the extra money was

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Speaker 3: out there. Unfortunately large proportion of it went into alcohol,

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Speaker 3: which is insidious to the functionality of Aboriginal communities. And

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Speaker 3: that's where we're seeing this unfortunately, our recidivist offenders and

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Speaker 3: the offenders we're identifying, even with no history Aboriginal kids,

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Speaker 3: and there's a causation about that, and we've got to

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Speaker 3: understand that so we can tackle that problem.

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Speaker 1: The discussions has turned to youth's bail laws. Yet again,

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Speaker 1: it does seem to go this way very often. I'll

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Speaker 1: ask you the same question that the Queensland Police Commissioner

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Speaker 1: was asked on the weekend, and for her it was

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Speaker 1: following on from the tragic situation which unfolded their last week.

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Speaker 1: Do we need to relook at these bail laws for

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Speaker 1: reoffending youth?

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Speaker 3: So I think the question that the Police commission and

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Speaker 3: Queen's Alum was asked was about the length of time

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Speaker 3: that someone should stay in custody, and of course what

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Speaker 3: we do know is that a person who's in custody

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Speaker 3: can't reoffend, certainly as it relates to property out and

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Speaker 3: about in a community. So her answer is quite quite accurate.

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Speaker 3: In that regard, we do know if you keep people

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Speaker 3: on remand or incarcerated, then they can't affec. But there's

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Speaker 3: a broader issue here because, as I say, in Casarina,

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Speaker 3: in Palmerston and dah And, we're seeing and enjoying a

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Speaker 3: reduction in crime. Now that's property crime specific, but we're

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Speaker 3: seeing also an increase in those areas though in again

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Speaker 3: and domestic disturbances and a bit of an upwood on

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Speaker 3: anty social behavior. So each area is moving around. What

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Speaker 3: we continue to do though, is we will go and

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Speaker 3: always interdict and arrest those that we believe are responsible

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Speaker 3: for crime, and then we follow the relevant pathway. The

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Speaker 3: jails are full, so I have to restate that the

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Speaker 3: jails are full. The police are the ones who put

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Speaker 3: people in jail ultimately via the arrest mechanisms and proving

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Speaker 3: it through the court that those people are guilty. So

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Speaker 3: there's a strong element here that still links to social

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Speaker 3: dysfunction and why we're seeing so many Aboriginal people incarcerated.

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Speaker 1: Now, just on that note of the jails being full,

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Speaker 1: have you had to have prisoners out at the watchhouse.

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Speaker 3: At time to time? We always provide that contingency for

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Speaker 3: them to enable them sufficient time to be able to

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Speaker 3: move their chess pieces around to be able to make

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Speaker 3: adequate accommodation of arlable. Believe that's occurred again in recent times,

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Speaker 3: but that's not the cases I understand it today.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just back on those bail laws, does the presumption

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Speaker 1: of bail for offenders need to be changed?

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Speaker 3: Well, we have a provision through the barl ACKed already

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Speaker 3: that we can seek a review of a decision if

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Speaker 3: we believe that a person should be remanded in custody

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Speaker 3: and a judge makes a determination that they still want

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Speaker 3: to release them on bail. So we do utilize that

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Speaker 3: the issue of bail and the issue of arrest is

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Speaker 3: an action of last resort, particularly around trying to prevent

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Speaker 3: the continuation of offenses. And I think it's fairly clear

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Speaker 3: our arrest rates remain very very high. So we're very

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Speaker 3: adept at that again putting people on bail. We're continuing

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Speaker 3: to work on bail monitoring to see how that's going. Indeed,

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Speaker 3: we focus actively on bail monitoring. I've asked each of

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Speaker 3: the teams to, particularly in Alice Springs, what else can

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Speaker 3: we ultimately try and do so that we can potentially

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Speaker 3: put forwards some suggestions as to what we can do

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Speaker 3: to treat this specific rise. But I go back to it,

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Speaker 3: this is specific to location. The same laws and legislation

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Speaker 3: in place across the whole of the territory, but we're

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Speaker 3: not seeing the extent of those spikes in the top

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Speaker 3: end as we are in the central Desert.

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Speaker 1: But so in Central Australia, you do feel that maybe

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Speaker 1: we do need to look at doing things differently when

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Speaker 1: it comes to.

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Speaker 3: Bail well, I think there's a broader conversation around why

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Speaker 3: is Alice Springs and Tenant Creek so predominantly impacted by

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Speaker 3: property crime in particular, particularly where we know they're going

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Speaker 3: for commodities such as food for cash and those types

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Speaker 3: of things. Unfortunately, there's also that element of just indiscriminate damage,

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Speaker 3: the smashing of windows. But both of those places in

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Speaker 3: particular are dominant service community service towns for their community,

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Speaker 3: so highly transient. We know that alcohol is a draw

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Speaker 3: and that's where we see the public drinking really come

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Speaker 3: to the issue and their centralized so through the CBD.

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Speaker 3: As I say, since we've had the Moll patrol back

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Speaker 3: in place, we've had a diminishing of the actual crime

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Speaker 3: occurring in the CBD, but there's now some further activity

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Speaker 3: into the suburbs and we're moving to try and mitigate

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Speaker 3: that as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, it is such a complex issue. I

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Speaker 1: think we all understand that. But certainly the public at

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Speaker 1: the moment really seem quite worried about the bail laws.

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Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's because it's become such a

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Speaker 1: political argument. One of the things that has also been

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Speaker 1: asked by our listeners is did the police ask the

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Speaker 1: government to change the bail laws so that there was

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Speaker 1: not a presumption against.

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Speaker 3: Bail not, to the best of my knowledge, No, what do.

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Speaker 2: You reckon we need to do here?

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Speaker 1: I know that this is so difficult, and I know that,

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Speaker 1: as you've pointed out, you're obviously dealing with very different

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Speaker 1: issues in each and every region and there's no sort

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Speaker 1: of quick fix.

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Speaker 2: We all understand that. But at the.

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Speaker 1: Moment, the government seems to have plans in place for

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Speaker 1: what they can do long term with young people to

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Speaker 1: try and set them on the right path. The police

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Speaker 1: seem to be doing everything that they can to try

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Speaker 1: and stop crime and to try to help territorians when

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Speaker 1: a crime is committed some where things are still breaking

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Speaker 1: down at the moment at various locations.

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Speaker 3: That's certainly the case, and I go back to it.

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Speaker 3: If we step back and look at it, the history

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Speaker 3: of our information tells us there's more Aboriginal people incarcerated

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Speaker 3: in the Northern Territory percentage wise than any other jurisdiction

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Speaker 3: by a country mile. Now that's a causation issue that's

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Speaker 3: been present with us for a very long long period

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Speaker 3: of time. The alcoholism issues that we've seen as that's

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Speaker 3: impacted on any social behavior you growing up in the territory.

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Speaker 3: I remember driving through Catherine seeing fights in the middle

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Speaker 3: of the street, windows being smashed, alice springs. When I

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Speaker 3: first started there in nineteen ninety five, all of those

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Speaker 3: retail shops and the mall already had shutters. There was

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Speaker 3: already GROWFEEDI all those types of things. So this has

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Speaker 3: been present for us for quite a period of time.

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Speaker 3: We're now fast tracked to where we've been over the

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Speaker 3: last five years or so. We've had royal commissions, we've

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Speaker 3: got high presence of fas D, we've got broader issues

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Speaker 3: of mental illness, we've got continuing growth in family and

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Speaker 3: domestic violence, and yet again, we've now seen significant investment

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Speaker 3: going into the welfare system where that money translates to

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Speaker 3: instead of buying lots of cartons of beer, they start

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Speaker 3: and buy lots of bottles of Bundy rum and the like.

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Speaker 3: That violence then has a kick on effect, and unfortunately

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Speaker 3: it's been amplified in Alice Springs and Tenant Creek and

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Speaker 3: that scene. The youth certainly become more engaged in criminal

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Speaker 3: activity and that not unreasonably has got the town highly concerned.

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Speaker 3: But to reassure the town, Alice Springs remained very, very

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Speaker 3: central to all of our focus and discussion. We continue

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Speaker 3: to send resources down there to make sure that they're supported,

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Speaker 3: and we're continuing to work with all of the other

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Speaker 3: government agencies. And now that we've got school back, we're

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Speaker 3: hoping to make a really significant drive in partnership with

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Speaker 3: everybody to get these kids back to school so we

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Speaker 3: can start understanding what is the social issues that's confronting

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Speaker 3: each and every one of these children.

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Speaker 2: Let's move along.

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Speaker 1: Over the Christmas break, there was reports that more police

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Speaker 1: had left the force. Paul McKee from the Police Association

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Speaker 1: confirming with this on Friday. Ten per month are leaving

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Speaker 1: five in the last fortnight. This must be a concern

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 3: It's not a concern in so much as this was

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Speaker 3: forle and Paul is aware of that. I was in

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Speaker 3: discussions with the NTPA throughout the course of last year.

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Speaker 3: If you recall, we sought additional and gained approval for

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Speaker 3: a sixty six additional police plus the thirty Aboriginal liaison

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Speaker 3: officers and other public sector employees. There was always going

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Speaker 3: to be a draw, particularly as I started seeing the

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Speaker 3: likes in New South Wales and Victoria Police with over

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Speaker 3: eighteen thousand police each having to call on the Australian

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Speaker 3: Defense Force to bolster their resources because they were running

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Speaker 3: out of resources to do their policing. We're a minnow

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Speaker 3: in that comparison. We're a touchover twelve hundred sworn constables

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Speaker 3: and above. So I ramped up the recruiting. We've graduated

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Speaker 3: eighty two in the last fourteen months. There's one hundred

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Speaker 3: and forty constables currently in the college. Some graduate, another

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Speaker 3: twenty eight graduate next month, another thirty graduate the month

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Speaker 3: after that. By the time we probably hit October this year,

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Speaker 3: we would have graduated. Since I returned in November of

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Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, two hundred and twenty two councils of Police

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Speaker 3: and ninety nine police auxiliaries thirty alas were really pumping

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Speaker 3: the pipe up to make sure that all these agencies

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Speaker 3: into state are going on mass recruiting drives. They've had

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Speaker 3: increases to their police establishment and they're seeking non the

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Speaker 3: territory police officers. And the reason why is because our

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Speaker 3: people are highly sought after, their valuable, they're well experienced.

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Speaker 3: But this is not new. This has occurred for us

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Speaker 3: repeatedly and continuously. And because I foresaw that this COVID

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Speaker 3: issue and the pandemic was making a placement on people

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Speaker 3: who couldn't get access to their families, that draw was

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Speaker 3: foreseeable and we had plans in place.

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Speaker 2: So are there exit interviews?

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Speaker 1: Are you sort of discussing with people when they leave

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Speaker 1: why they're leaving.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so we do an exit interview process. Interestingly, I

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Speaker 3: was speaking with Paul this morning. Now, unfortunately Paul tells

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Speaker 3: me that he then gets an email after what we

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Speaker 3: get told, and he gets told a different version. We

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Speaker 3: can't do much about that if people who are departing

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Speaker 3: don't want to let us know exactly what their legitimate

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Speaker 3: reasons are, then we can't do much about it. But

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Speaker 3: what we do know is because we know who's going,

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Speaker 3: we know where we've recruited them from, a large number

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Speaker 3: of them are going back to their home jurisdiction. A

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Speaker 3: large number of them are going back to police forces

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Speaker 3: that they've either always aspired to go to or that

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Speaker 3: they've previously worked in. And that's what we're seeing.

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Speaker 1: Now where we with the borders. Do we still have

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Speaker 1: police on our border points? And has that drain I

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Speaker 1: guess you'd say lifted to some degree.

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Speaker 3: Look, we've been the only agency NonStop since March operating

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Speaker 3: twenty four to seven. As it relates to COVID, those

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Speaker 3: borders have been up in place since that period of time,

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Speaker 3: and look at where the territory is. So our agency

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Speaker 3: deserves a significant amount of attention for what it's done.

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Speaker 3: They have worked tirelessly. People have sacrificed leave. We know

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Speaker 3: that equally. We've tried to manage leave. We've tried to

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Speaker 3: work with twelve hour rosters. We've now rescinded the twelve

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Speaker 3: hour rosters. We're back doing eight, nine and ten hour rosters.

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Speaker 3: We're planning by the recruiting we've been doing that as

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Speaker 3: people come out, we can start increasing our leave caps

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Speaker 3: for people. They are very much of the forefront of

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Speaker 3: our considerations as it relates to our border checkpoints. Now

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Speaker 3: that WA's will Perth specifically is the sole hotspot that remains.

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Speaker 3: I was in touch with the Essay Police Commissioner on

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Speaker 3: Sunday confirmed that they're going to have a hard border

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Speaker 3: in place with WA from South Australia. That's given me

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Speaker 3: the ability to then stand down the Colgra border checkpoint

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Speaker 3: and also the came A Will border checkpoint. The only

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Speaker 3: one that we'll start will remain physically staffed is the

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Speaker 3: Victoria Highway just for that entrance from Kunnenara and the like.

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Speaker 3: And we've got our automatic number plate recognition in place

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Speaker 3: for the Tanamai and the Buntain Highway.

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Speaker 1: Is that going to make things a little bit easier

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Speaker 1: for you when it comes to resourcing and having patrols

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Speaker 1: on the road.

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Speaker 3: Certainly, so obviously bringing them back into the places that

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Speaker 3: they're normally assigned to is going to be a greater

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Speaker 3: means for us to deploy more people. But across the

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Speaker 3: board we still have to do our compliance element to it.

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Speaker 3: The further balance here is if COVID does permeate into

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Speaker 3: the Northern territory when we go into full lockdown, then

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Speaker 3: our policing is going to be under pressure yet again

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Speaker 3: and we are going to have to call on assistance

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Speaker 3: again from the AFP and the ADF in the event

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Speaker 3: that occurs. But we're doing all we can to make

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Speaker 3: sure that doesn't occur.

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Speaker 1: Just very quickly, back on police leaving the force, are

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Speaker 1: you concerned about the experience that you're losing?

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Speaker 3: Again, well drilled in respects of this. This is a

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Speaker 3: constant tune for us. Of note the people who have

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Speaker 3: been in the agency, you'll recall there was no real

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Speaker 3: graduations for a twelve month period before our return. We

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Speaker 3: graduated fifty eight. As I say, we're upwards of eighty

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Speaker 3: two have been graduated. So those people now have got

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Speaker 3: a year or so under their belt. But before that,

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Speaker 3: we've got a significant cardra now that are upwards of

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Speaker 3: three four years in the job who are now starting

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Speaker 3: to become senior constables. We've turned the promotion pathway back on,

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Speaker 3: so we've got promotions for senior sergeants for sergeants, we've

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Speaker 3: turned professional development back on through the course of last

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Speaker 3: year to make sure that more investigators are getting trained.

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Speaker 3: We've put through a detective training course, so we're opening

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Speaker 3: all these opportunities for our people to make sure they're

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Speaker 3: being trained. Our Bush Police know that they're getting well supported,

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Speaker 3: that we're making significant moves to make sure that they've

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Speaker 3: got the appropriate resourcing to be able to deal with

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Speaker 3: their challenges and issues as well. And as we get

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Speaker 3: these resources coming back from the COVID presence back into

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Speaker 3: our major centers, we expect to see a high police

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Speaker 3: presence Commissioner.

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Speaker 1: Just finally this morning on the weekend, sadly, a ninety

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Speaker 1: two year old man was allegedly assaulted by a sixteen

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Speaker 1: year old. That teenager was apprehended and was due to

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Speaker 1: a peer in court yesterday. We spoke to a witness

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Speaker 1: yesterday who said police did a great job. He said

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Speaker 1: he didn't want to criticize police, but it had taken

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Speaker 1: over thirty minutes for the police to.

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Speaker 2: Get to that assault. Is that time frame acceptable to you?

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Speaker 3: Our preference would always be able to try and get

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Speaker 3: there as soon as we reasonably can. What I would

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Speaker 3: have a level of confidence about is that they would

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Speaker 3: have got there as soon as they reasonably could. What

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Speaker 3: occurs generally on a weekend particularly is a changeover from

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Speaker 3: the night shift to the day shift. Is the day

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Speaker 3: shifts briefed on what offenders may already be in custody.

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Speaker 3: So there may have already been others that were in

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Speaker 3: custody from the previous night. Day shift crew had to

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Speaker 3: do some follow up work with and that's why they

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Speaker 3: might not have been able to respond immediately. But be

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Speaker 3: very comforted now. Join Emergency Services Communications Center prioritizes and

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Speaker 3: coordinates this and on pleas that we affected and arrest

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Speaker 3: because that particular offense was not something that meets the

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Speaker 3: community standard.

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Speaker 2: No, it was disgraceful.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, Police Commissioner for the Northern Territory, Jamie Chalker. We

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Speaker 1: better leave it there. We've got the mayor waiting outside.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie,