Speaker 1: This is Outspoken. The podcast is not afraid to say
Speaker 1: exactly what you're thinking. Our names are Amy Kate and
Speaker 1: Sophie Torba. We're identical triplets, but we often don't have
Speaker 1: identical opinions, so sometimes things can get heated. Outspoken covers
Speaker 1: all things reality TV, influencers, entertainment, and issues facing women.
Speaker 2: That is so fat.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Outspoken Fridays Now. A post by a Stan
Speaker 1: of Anna Paul has got us thinking today because this
Speaker 1: fan shared a tattoo she had of Anna Poul in
Speaker 1: bikinis on her arm. I really wanted to know if
Speaker 1: you guys had to get a tattoo of someone in
Speaker 1: pop culture, an influencer, a celebrity, and so if you
Speaker 1: can't say your dog Archie, who would it be? Well,
Speaker 1: I do remember seeing there was a fan of Money
Speaker 1: Heist who got a big tattoo of Tokyo, one of
Speaker 1: the characters on his leg, and he met her at
Speaker 1: the Red carpet and she just was like, it's such shock.
Speaker 1: I love Money highst. I can't actually imagine getting a
Speaker 1: Money Highest tattoo, though, Well, you got to come up
Speaker 1: with something. Who would you get? Actually also reminds me
Speaker 1: of the time that Saffron Barker tricked her mum that
Speaker 1: she got her mum's face tattooed on a leg. Can
Speaker 1: we for our parents on LG No, at at all.
Speaker 1: It has to be pop culture related. I might even
Speaker 1: make it more specific. If you guys had to get
Speaker 1: an Australian influencer on your arm, who would it be? Oh?
Speaker 1: My god, can I say Bindi Shinny Grumman's dog. Oh,
Speaker 1: she's pretty iconic.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can't think of anybody. I mean, I just I'm
Speaker 1: not a tattoo person. So the thought of having an
Speaker 1: influencer's face on my arm, I just I can't even
Speaker 1: imagine it. Can you imagine in twenty years time coming
Speaker 1: to your kids and they're like, who's that on your arm? Mum?
Speaker 1: And you're like, oh, just an influencer I used to follow. Well,
Speaker 1: you know what, this girl had some pretty cool body art,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't just I mean, if you Sophie just
Speaker 1: got one random tattoo at a peril days he slapped
Speaker 1: my arm, Kate, what about you? Is anyone you'd ever
Speaker 1: consider getting tattooed on your arm in the pop culture space? Well, look, no,
Speaker 1: I would never do it, but if I had to
Speaker 1: pick someone, I'd probably say Taylor Swift. Feel he's not
Speaker 1: an influencer, but she's in the set in the pop
Speaker 1: culture space. Okay, we're gonna put a thread in our
Speaker 1: Facebook community. We'd love to know which influencer or person
Speaker 1: in pop culture you would get tattooed on your arm.
Speaker 2: Entire Channel four News team. I'm Veronica Corningstone.
Speaker 1: And I'm Ron Burgundy.
Speaker 2: Goof yourself, san Diego.
Speaker 1: When Lilah Vocalin turned to a closed women's Facebook group
Speaker 1: to ask for advice, she never imagined her private messages
Speaker 1: would end up in the mainstream media. Lila asked group
Speaker 1: members of the Tea Time Facebook community what she should
Speaker 1: do after she realized her psychologist had liked and messaged
Speaker 1: her on dating app Hinge. Now, Amy, can you explain
Speaker 1: more so, Lilah shared screenshots of messages on Hinge from
Speaker 1: a man who she says is her psychologist. The first
Speaker 1: message from the man read hey with love heart eye emojis.
Speaker 1: He wrote, I feel like we've matched before. Leela responded,
Speaker 1: aren't you my psych to which he replied, oh that's
Speaker 1: why you look familiar. Sorry, I deal with lots of
Speaker 1: clients and it's hard to keep up. How have you
Speaker 1: been so as you can see, Instead of shutting down
Speaker 1: the conversation, it appeared her psychologists tried to keep initiating
Speaker 1: conversation between the pair on the dating app. Now, according
Speaker 1: to APPRA, which is the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency,
Speaker 1: practitioners are expected to act in their patient's best interests
Speaker 1: and not use their position of power and trust to
Speaker 1: exploit patients physically, sexually, emotionally or psychologically. Now, not only
Speaker 1: does Lila say that her post in the private Facebook
Speaker 1: group was leaked to the psychologist, who has since threatened
Speaker 1: to sue her for defamation, which is just disgusting in itself,
Speaker 1: she also woke up to find that numerous online articles
Speaker 1: were written by mainstream media publications about her post. Now,
Speaker 1: according to the Facebook group's rules, this is a privacy breach.
Speaker 1: Wila also says she was never contacted for comment. Now,
Speaker 1: Wila is kindly joining us. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: coming on the show. Firstly, we're just so sorry to
Speaker 1: hear about how all of this has blown up. How
Speaker 1: are you feeling very overwhelmed?
Speaker 2: Anxious?
Speaker 3: Kind of like everything's out of my control, but there's
Speaker 3: not really anything I can do, So I'm kind of
Speaker 3: just sitting back and seeing what happens.
Speaker 1: And how did you feel when you first realized that
Speaker 1: you had matched with your psychologist on hinge?
Speaker 2: It raised a lot of red flags for me.
Speaker 3: I didn't I don't really think that I kind of
Speaker 3: gathered what was happening initially. I just knew it was wrong,
Speaker 3: and I kind of quick Google, like is this okay?
Speaker 3: Like I know, you know, like teacher student relationships, Like
Speaker 3: that's not all right.
Speaker 1: And after you found out that you had matched with
Speaker 1: him on hinge, you then decided to post about your
Speaker 1: experience on a Facebook group called Tea Time. Can you
Speaker 1: tell us what you wrote and also why you felt
Speaker 1: compelled to share that experience on Tea Time.
Speaker 3: I don't like saying that I matched with him because
Speaker 3: I think that he was the one that kind of
Speaker 3: first instigated the compact. Like with the way that hinge
Speaker 3: works is that you can see who liked you first.
Speaker 3: And because it was under a fake name, there were
Speaker 3: two people in the photo. I didn't really realize at
Speaker 3: the time until he sent that message through. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: I posted in tea time. I was talking to my
Speaker 3: housemate about it and kind of said, like, this is
Speaker 3: just what's happened, Like what do you think?
Speaker 2: And she was like, nah, like that's not.
Speaker 3: Okay, but like can she She actually was the one
Speaker 3: who told me about tea time, and she said that
Speaker 3: there's a really good girls group. It's very supportive, like
Speaker 3: very feminist, like they're quick to call things out. Why
Speaker 3: don't you like post in there, have a like, have
Speaker 3: a look at what those girls have to say, and
Speaker 3: then yeah, make a decision from there. So yeah, I
Speaker 3: kind of I was just seeking out women's support and
Speaker 3: advice really.
Speaker 1: And that's why everyone our kind of age does, isn't it.
Speaker 1: These groups have sort of become a safe place for
Speaker 1: women to be able to share this sort of information,
Speaker 1: And it's also good to get other people's opinions maybe
Speaker 1: on what to do and how best to tackle the situation.
Speaker 1: So I definitely think if I was in a similar situation,
Speaker 1: I'd want to reach out to, you know, like minded
Speaker 1: people online and get that sort of support too.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: Yep, And you raised a really good point. You said
Speaker 1: that you didn't actually match with your psychologists. Are you
Speaker 1: able to explain because there's been a bit of misinformation
Speaker 1: going on. I think a lot of people just think
Speaker 1: of Tinder when they think of dating apps, but Hinge
Speaker 1: is obviously a little bit different.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So the way that Hinge works is that there's a
Speaker 3: little icon there that you click on and you can
Speaker 3: see everybody who has like like like you, and you
Speaker 3: can actually send messages without the other person matching with you. Basically. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so I just went into that little icon. I was
Speaker 3: just mindlessly scrolling in a bit of a zombie mode,
Speaker 3: and I pressed the tick and like, because his name
Speaker 3: was a fake name, there were two people in his photo,
Speaker 3: and yes, I.
Speaker 2: Clicked on him.
Speaker 3: This was I think on Tuesday, February fifteenth, and I
Speaker 3: don't even think I saw the message until three or
Speaker 3: four days later when he did send me that message
Speaker 3: like with the hey, with the love hard eyes, haven't
Speaker 3: we matched before? Kind of insinuating that I looked familiar,
Speaker 3: which makes me think that he definitely did know who
Speaker 3: I was when he sent that.
Speaker 1: And you immediately tried to shut this conversation down. You
Speaker 1: were like, aren't you my psychologist?
Speaker 2: Exactly? Yep.
Speaker 1: It's just such a gross breach of power. I just
Speaker 1: can't believe that these sort of things going on, and
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine. Also, how you must have felt
Speaker 1: when you woke up in the morning and saw your
Speaker 1: story plastered all over mainstream media.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a real shock to the system, just
Speaker 3: because I had posted in a closed, private women's Facebook
Speaker 3: group just asking for advice. Turns out that journalist Matilda
Speaker 3: Rudd was in that group. She stole my story, and yeah,
Speaker 3: now it's everywhere. It was on Daily Mail, it was
Speaker 3: on these random US news sites, Channel seven news dot com.
Speaker 2: Now it's very overwhelming, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it must be, especially because in the group it
Speaker 1: clearly states there are rules that there is privacy for
Speaker 1: members and that journalists are not able to take information
Speaker 1: and share it. Were you ever actually contacted by the
Speaker 1: journalists who wrote the story?
Speaker 3: So there's been three journalists who have written stories now,
Speaker 3: so Matilda Rudd was the first one that was for
Speaker 3: Daily Mail. She never contacted me. I actually made an
Speaker 3: attempt to contact her when I first saw that the
Speaker 3: news article had been published.
Speaker 2: I first contacted Daily Mail.
Speaker 3: To issue a complaint asking them to take it down,
Speaker 3: but I never heard back, and then I contacted Matilda
Speaker 3: through her Instagram DMS. I sent her a very polite
Speaker 3: message just saying that I wasn't ready for this to
Speaker 3: be publicized, because you please take it down.
Speaker 2: I never heard back from her either. Part of me
Speaker 2: does want to.
Speaker 3: Have this publicized, because I do want to speak out,
Speaker 3: but I think that I also want to wait until
Speaker 3: just to see what happens with Opera and the hate
Speaker 3: Treple C and to see if I can actually publicize
Speaker 3: his name, because right now I can't say his name
Speaker 3: at all, which I think he deserves to have his
Speaker 3: name out there.
Speaker 1: I mean, definitely, I suppose that's been the issue with
Speaker 1: the reporting. I mean that Sofa and I have witnessed
Speaker 1: so far is that it's all sort of been on you,
Speaker 1: and I feel like, because you are young and you're attractive,
Speaker 1: they've chosen a lot of photos of you, taken stuff
Speaker 1: you've said out of context, and that's obviously led to
Speaker 1: a lot of commentary online as well that hasn't been
Speaker 1: so nice. How have you felt reading some of these
Speaker 1: comments from people who were almost blaming you. I mean,
Speaker 1: we personally think there's a lot of victim blaming going on.
Speaker 2: Oh one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: I've been reading the comments on The comments on the
Speaker 3: news dot com.
Speaker 2: Article on Facebook particularly bad. A lot of old men.
Speaker 3: I think I read one saying, well, she's a basket case.
Speaker 3: She sees a psychologist. He knew what he was getting
Speaker 3: into her, getting in with her, dodged a bullet. There
Speaker 3: a lot of things like that, things like well she's
Speaker 3: wearing a swimsuit, like, what does she expect?
Speaker 2: That was one of them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just really really nasty, misogynistic victim blaming comments.
Speaker 1: Now, you did make a really great point on Instagram
Speaker 1: how when women speak out about male's predatory behavior, they're
Speaker 1: often slap with legal action. What has the fallout been
Speaker 1: from the psychologist.
Speaker 3: I haven't heard from him since he threatened me, so
Speaker 3: basically oft he must have seen the tea time post,
Speaker 3: like the initial one that I posted.
Speaker 2: It got leaked to him somehow, and he sent me.
Speaker 3: A message saying that I should expect to be hearing
Speaker 3: from his lawyer over the next week or so. In
Speaker 3: regards to defamation, that didn't really scare me much because
Speaker 3: I know there's no grounds for defamation there. But I
Speaker 3: think that it's all too common that when a man
Speaker 3: is in a position of power, not even necessarily in
Speaker 3: a position of power, just men. They just want to
Speaker 3: intimidate women, and like they throw around, throw around these
Speaker 3: words like legal action just to try and scare you
Speaker 3: pretty much and try and get you to back down
Speaker 3: and try and.
Speaker 2: Get you off their case. But like in this case,
Speaker 2: it's not going to work.
Speaker 1: I love that, and that is so true, and it's
Speaker 1: quite interesting because I feel like your story has raised
Speaker 1: a lot of questions about just how private these facebooks
Speaker 1: actually are, especially groups like Tea Time, which have so
Speaker 1: many thousands of followers. What would be your advice to
Speaker 1: people who do post on these groups in the future.
Speaker 3: I think with social media, you're always taking a risk
Speaker 3: with what you put out there.
Speaker 2: I had to look at the Tea.
Speaker 3: Time members and it is something like eighty thousand, so
Speaker 3: I didn't realize it was that big, but I guess, yeah,
Speaker 3: I was taking a risk. But it was also a
Speaker 3: closed women's Facebook group, and you know, in our day
Speaker 3: and age, there's so much like going around, like especially
Speaker 3: on social media, about like women's empowerment, women supporting one another,
Speaker 3: and yeah, to have a woman do this to.
Speaker 2: Me is it's a really gross violation.
Speaker 3: So I know, of Tea Time, you can post anonymously
Speaker 3: if you If you private message the admins, they'll post
Speaker 3: for you.
Speaker 2: So I'd say yeah.
Speaker 3: In the future, if there's any girls who think that
Speaker 3: what they what they want to post could be a
Speaker 3: bit risky, did I just posted anonymously?
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for joining us, and congratulations
Speaker 1: on taking a stance against this type of behavior. Because
Speaker 1: your statement that you put up on Instagram was amazing
Speaker 1: and we'll have to link it in our show notes
Speaker 1: everyone can have a read. And also the fact that
Speaker 1: you are twenty one. It blows my mind. You have
Speaker 1: just spoken so articulately and also so bravely, as Amy said,
Speaker 1: especially when this person is obviously sought out to try
Speaker 1: and silence you. So congratulations for the amazing way that
Speaker 1: you have responded to it.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: This week, Brittany Hockley confirmed she has split with tennis
Speaker 1: player boyfriend Jordan Thompson. She made the tiery announcement on
Speaker 1: her Life Uncut podcast after months of rumors. The former
Speaker 1: Bachelor star explained our constant speculation had strained her relationship
Speaker 1: as the pair tried to make a decision about the future,
Speaker 1: and it was really hard not to feel extremely sorry
Speaker 1: for Britt. As she shared the update, she spoke about
Speaker 1: how she couldn't get out of bed and couldn't stop crying,
Speaker 1: all while dealing with the media and fans demanding an update.
Speaker 1: So BRIT's situation got me thinking about how much privacy
Speaker 1: influences and public figures should be afforded when it comes
Speaker 1: to breakups. Do we have the right to know exactly
Speaker 1: when it happens? Shall we get to know the ins
Speaker 1: and outs and the reason for the breakup? And why
Speaker 1: do we think we deserve to know? What do you
Speaker 1: guys think? Well, I've previously discussed on the podcast how
Speaker 1: I do think influencers who monetize their relationships on the
Speaker 1: platform are somewhat indebted to sharing relationship updates. However, BRIT's
Speaker 1: reaction has really made me see another side to it,
Speaker 1: and it kind of makes me reflect on my own
Speaker 1: breakup experiences and I can't imagine how difficult it would be,
Speaker 1: particularly when a lot of the time when you do
Speaker 1: break up with someone, there is that period where you
Speaker 1: get back together. I feel like when an influencer is
Speaker 1: going through that phase of on and off again relationship,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to then inform everyone's what's happening, because
Speaker 1: most of the time you don't really know what's going
Speaker 1: on in your relationship yourself, particularly in their situation where
Speaker 1: it sounds like it was pretty amicable and the only
Speaker 1: reason they really were breaking up was because of the
Speaker 1: long distance nature of their relationship. And I feel like
Speaker 1: brit was quite quick to point out that they're breaking
Speaker 1: up for now, but you never know what is going
Speaker 1: to happen in the future. And personally, I would find
Speaker 1: that really difficult to then jump on a mic and
Speaker 1: dissect that relationship, because, as she said, it would almost
Speaker 1: be easier if you hated that person. I know, when
Speaker 1: I was going through a breakup, I had that little
Speaker 1: glimmer of hope that maybe we were going to get
Speaker 1: back together. And on a lesser scale, it's kind of
Speaker 1: like when you have a bitch to your friends about
Speaker 1: your ex boyfriend and what a dickhead they've been, and
Speaker 1: then suddenly you think it's back on again, and you've
Speaker 1: kind of got to, you know, come crawling back to
Speaker 1: everyone saying how wonderful they are trying to win people over. Gosh.
Speaker 1: I have been there so many times in my first relationship,
Speaker 1: because my first relationship was very toxic. It was very
Speaker 1: off and on, and I remember feeling so embarrassed when
Speaker 1: I have to tell you guys or Mum or any
Speaker 1: of my friends that, hey, actually I've accepted that behavior
Speaker 1: and taken him back. And I'm not saying that is
Speaker 1: at all what's going on with Britt and Jordan. But
Speaker 1: you know, when you reflect back on your relationships and
Speaker 1: the terminals that you've gone through, it's hard not to
Speaker 1: feel sorry for someone in the public eye that then
Speaker 1: has to communicate outwardly to followers and media about their
Speaker 1: relationship and what's happened in those everyday situations. It's really
Speaker 1: awkward for the friend as well who has had the
Speaker 1: person bitch to them, because half the time you end
Speaker 1: up putting your foot in it, agreeing with your friend
Speaker 1: who's been dumbed, And then when that person comes back
Speaker 1: in the picture, it's always very awkward, yeah, because you
Speaker 1: almost need to hold your tongue the first time someone
Speaker 1: says they've broken up with somebody because you say what
Speaker 1: you honestly thought of them, and then next week they're
Speaker 1: back together, but just circling back to Brits so her
Speaker 1: announcing the split to all of the life uncut followers.
Speaker 1: That is the final nail in the coffin of this relationship.
Speaker 1: And as you said, she might have held hope that
Speaker 1: maybe she and Jordan would get back together. Well, it
Speaker 1: seems like that two weeks over Samma was very much
Speaker 1: them seeing what it would be like and maybe having
Speaker 1: those difficult conversations about where is this going. And it
Speaker 1: would be really difficult to have those conversations when there
Speaker 1: is a lot of speculation going on about it online.
Speaker 1: In terms of followers feeling like they deserve to know
Speaker 1: the ins and outs of influencers breakups, I really feel
Speaker 1: like it comes down to parasocial relationships that we build
Speaker 1: with influencers online, And for those who don't know, a
Speaker 1: parasocial relationship is essentially a one way relationship with an influencer, celebrity,
Speaker 1: or brand that feels like a two way relationship. So
Speaker 1: social media has really increased these parasocial relationships we have
Speaker 1: because it provides an intimate and personal look into someone's
Speaker 1: life and it gives us a feeling that we know
Speaker 1: them when we really don't. So I think that we
Speaker 1: believe we're in titled to know what's going on with
Speaker 1: these influencer relationships because we feel like we've gone through
Speaker 1: the experience with the influencer. And I think another aspect
Speaker 1: comes down to Instagram's algorithm, because the platform really rewards
Speaker 1: users for going big with their posts and sometimes monetizing them. So,
Speaker 1: for example, you'll notice that announcements around big life events
Speaker 1: like engagements and pregnancies often garner the most likes for influencers,
Speaker 1: and it's also the case for normal people as well.
Speaker 1: And this then results in influencers curating their feed only
Speaker 1: to show the highlights, and they end up presenting the
Speaker 1: best possible view without the whole story. And this all
Speaker 1: has a trickle down effect to normal Instagram users as well,
Speaker 1: And I feel like due to this highlight sharing, Instagram
Speaker 1: has become a place where people go and see content
Speaker 1: that makes them sometimes feel inadequate or jealous about their
Speaker 1: own lives. And inadequacy is often felt about people's own
Speaker 1: relationships when they compare them to everyday life to the
Speaker 1: highlight reel of influencers. So when influencers do break up
Speaker 1: with their partners, it kind of feels like a car
Speaker 1: crash scenario where you know you should look away, but
Speaker 1: you just can't because you're so curious about what's happened
Speaker 1: and how this perfect relationship failed. I think the other
Speaker 1: thing is just human nature. When you do start dating
Speaker 1: someone and it's the honeymoon stage, you do post more
Speaker 1: about that person because you're really excited to let everyone
Speaker 1: know that you're in a new relationship. And I think
Speaker 1: that's obviously the case for everyday people and influencers, and
Speaker 1: unfortunately for influencers, because we are so interested in their
Speaker 1: lives and comparing how they are to theirs. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of followers pick up when things start to
Speaker 1: slow down. So suddenly, when we don't see that relationship
Speaker 1: online anymore, a bit like with Britt and Jordan, we
Speaker 1: begin to speculate why, and it just kind of builds
Speaker 1: that anticipation and that appetite to know what happened, and
Speaker 1: you know, we also think that there must be way
Speaker 1: more to it than they're so invested. You're so invested
Speaker 1: sometimes in these people you don't know'se relationships than in
Speaker 1: your friends relationships. It's so it's true, so strange, and
Speaker 1: I do feel like some people actually use influencers pitfalls
Speaker 1: as a way to keep their behavior in check as well.
Speaker 1: So if the influencer does something in their relationship that
Speaker 1: doesn't align with your values. When they do break up,
Speaker 1: you kind of see that as a win to yourself, like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have done that, so that means I'm correct
Speaker 1: in my behavior and how I navigate relationships. I also
Speaker 1: think it must be quite difficult for people in the
Speaker 1: public eye to openly speak about relationship breakdowns when they
Speaker 1: feel like their partner might not have a right of reply.
Speaker 1: And in the situation with Britt and Jordan, of course
Speaker 1: he is a public facing person being a tennis player,
Speaker 1: but he's not someone who openly talks about their relationship
Speaker 1: on his Instagram account. And I think that she's also
Speaker 1: taken that very much into consideration. And I think there
Speaker 1: is a slight difference if you are a YouTube or
Speaker 1: Instagram couple and you've built your following around your relationship
Speaker 1: in that situation, you do then owe your audience an
Speaker 1: explanation of what happened and what went down, because a
Speaker 1: lot of these Instagram couples do glamorize their relationship and
Speaker 1: monetize it as well. Yeah, well, that's why I think
Speaker 1: there is such an appetite to find out about breakdowns
Speaker 1: of relationships because influencers in the past have shared so
Speaker 1: much about their relationships. So as you said on YouTube,
Speaker 1: and we have seen so many influencers who have come
Speaker 1: out and done full breakdown debriefs on their channel, and
Speaker 1: then it sets the precedence that everyone wants to know
Speaker 1: more and more and more about different influencers relationships.
Speaker 2: Not a Gelly, you've got in your hair smells quite
Speaker 2: strongly too. Why are you telling this to me now?
Speaker 2: I'm just mentioning it. I can see you've got a
Speaker 2: lot in That's all I don't. I mean, I can't
Speaker 2: wash it now, can I've not got time. God, I
Speaker 2: don't know why you are like this.
Speaker 1: Sometimes, as we approach our joint thirty third birthday next month,
Speaker 1: we've been chatting with some of our friends about the
Speaker 1: immense pressure women face to not only beat the biological clock,
Speaker 1: but also keep a grasp on your social currency. So
Speaker 1: if I know you've been a little bit stressed about
Speaker 1: our birthday coming up, I wouldn't say I've been stressed
Speaker 1: about it. I just feel for women who are entering
Speaker 1: their thirties because I feel like there's so much pressure
Speaker 1: from society on your shoulders, and you suddenly realize when
Speaker 1: you are in your thirties that there's all these boxes
Speaker 1: that you're supposed to have ticked by the time you're
Speaker 1: in that age demographic. And I feel like I've fed
Speaker 1: such a different story in your twenties because you're always told, oh,
Speaker 1: there's plenty of time, you can make mistakes, just have
Speaker 1: fun dating people, don't settle for anyone, and you're really
Speaker 1: on this journey of finding out who you are and
Speaker 1: what you want to be. And I found in my
Speaker 1: twenties I was constantly being told I was too young
Speaker 1: or too inexperience for certain jobs. But then suddenly, out
Speaker 1: of nowhere, when your thirtieth birthday rolls around, You're supposed
Speaker 1: to have this incredible job. You're supposed to have a
Speaker 1: solid income, own a home, you're supposed to be settling down.
Speaker 1: There's all these things, having kids, and I just think
Speaker 1: it's this ridiculous expectation, particularly on women, and I just
Speaker 1: feel like there's this ticking time bomb that we've got going.
Speaker 1: And I've also found from personal experience as someone who
Speaker 1: was forced to look for a new job when I
Speaker 1: was in my thirties, that I thought once I got
Speaker 1: into my thirties that I would be taken more seriously.
Speaker 1: But I've found it's quite a hindrance because people assume
Speaker 1: that you're going to be getting married and having children,
Speaker 1: and they don't necessarily want to employ someone that's going
Speaker 1: to go on a maternity contract, even if that's not
Speaker 1: in your plan. I've just noticed that my Facebook and
Speaker 1: Instagram feed has literally just turned into baby pictures as well,
Speaker 1: and just everyone's getting married, everyone's having babies, and you
Speaker 1: kind of feel a bit left behind if you're not
Speaker 1: doing that, or you feel even weird that you might
Speaker 1: not even want to think about kids at the moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like this fucked up expectation that makes many of
Speaker 1: us feel inadequate or unsuccessful if you haven't done those
Speaker 1: things at the perceived right time, when they may not
Speaker 1: even be things that you even want to be doing then.
Speaker 1: And as thirty approaches, I feel like people suddenly find
Speaker 1: it appropriate to point out to women of that age
Speaker 1: that their biological clock is ticking and that if we
Speaker 1: don't hurry up, will lose the opportunity to have a
Speaker 1: family one day, and one many women don't necessarily want
Speaker 1: to have children or many women may not be able
Speaker 1: to have children. You never know what's going on in
Speaker 1: someone's life, and I feel like it's really unfair for
Speaker 1: people to put these questions and assumptions towards women of
Speaker 1: a certain age. And even just having a podcast that's
Speaker 1: in the influencer space, I've noticed so much agism going
Speaker 1: on on social media. People who are in their thirties.
Speaker 1: They're often spoken about by young influencers as if we're
Speaker 1: almost dead. It's actually quite depressing because I don't feel
Speaker 1: any different to how I felt in by twenties at all,
Speaker 1: and I've just noticed so much shit talk about people
Speaker 1: in their thirties going on, Yeah, that's the thing. Suddenly,
Speaker 1: when you find yourself outside of the twenties demographic that
Speaker 1: you never thought you'd leave, you made to feel as
Speaker 1: though your social currency is waning. And I feel like
Speaker 1: so many of us go through a bit of an
Speaker 1: identity crisis. I know when we were turning thirty, I
Speaker 1: suddenly started to second guess the clothes that I was wearing.
Speaker 1: So usually in summer I just wear denim shorts and
Speaker 1: chuck on a white top, and I even was thinking,
Speaker 1: is this appropriate for a thirty year old to be wearing. God,
Speaker 1: of course it is. And I think that's why we
Speaker 1: saw such a meltdown with skinny jeans and the side part,
Speaker 1: because we've always been the young generation. We've always been
Speaker 1: setting the trends, and suddenly this younger generation was telling
Speaker 1: us that we're the epitome of uncle m. And that's
Speaker 1: the thing. I'm so torn on this because quite often
Speaker 1: I feel myself saying this to other women, because a
Speaker 1: lot of the time, when you say your age, automatically
Speaker 1: women or men will go, don't worry, you don't look
Speaker 1: that old. And I think it's actually quite a harmful
Speaker 1: thing to say to people, because being older shouldn't necessarily
Speaker 1: be a negative thing. I feel like it's this constant
Speaker 1: pursuit to be young, which is actually really damaging and
Speaker 1: really harmful to women. And I personally have to stop
Speaker 1: at myself as I get older. I really do feel
Speaker 1: for women who are also older than ourselves, because I've
Speaker 1: always heard this whisper going around that, you know, people
Speaker 1: in their forties start to feel invisible, and in my thirties,
Speaker 1: I can already see that happening. As we've established, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think many women do start to feel invisible, and
Speaker 1: it's really because society places an overwhelming amount of importance
Speaker 1: on women's appearance and I hate the term, but on
Speaker 1: women's fuck ability. So many of us have grown up
Speaker 1: internalizing this notion that there is only currency in our
Speaker 1: appearance and staying youthful. And I feel like for so
Speaker 1: long in TV shows and movies there's really been an
Speaker 1: absence of women of a certain age, even on television
Speaker 1: news in Australia, and I think that the older women become,
Speaker 1: the less they see themselves, particularly in pop culture, and
Speaker 1: it can become very polarizing if you don't see anyone
Speaker 1: like you out there, and the only women who are
Speaker 1: getting granted these positions are women who look a hell
Speaker 1: of a lot younger than they are and don't actually
Speaker 1: reflect what the average forty fifty, sixty seventy year old
Speaker 1: woman looks like. And at the moment people are seeing
Speaker 1: Sarah Jesca Park has appear pearance as being some sort
Speaker 1: of beacon because she actually looks her age and we
Speaker 1: aren't used to seeing women on TV without filly in
Speaker 1: their face. But I have loved watching just like that.
Speaker 1: And I did hear Mia Friedman talking about how much.
Speaker 1: A lot of people don't think that fifty year old
Speaker 1: lives are actually like that, and it's like young people
Speaker 1: just stick to their own lane and they don't realize
Speaker 1: that you're still the same person, and as you get older,
Speaker 1: you're still gonna have dramas in your life, and things
Speaker 1: still happen after you turn thirty exactly. I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like the criticism of Sarah Jessica Parker's appearance has
Speaker 1: been so unfair. I actually thought she looked incredible, and
Speaker 1: I think the fact that she hadn't had any work
Speaker 1: actually made her appear much more youthful. That's the thing
Speaker 1: I feel like now, especially because we are living in
Speaker 1: a social media era, I feel like as soon as
Speaker 1: you turn thirty, you also start thinking about whether you
Speaker 1: in fact need certain cosmetic procedures done, or whether you
Speaker 1: should start investing in some really expensive skin care. And
Speaker 1: I vividly remember when I was twenty nine going to
Speaker 1: a mark A stall and this woman was selling a
Speaker 1: lot of skincare products and she asked me how old
Speaker 1: I was, and I told her, and she said, and
Speaker 1: this isn't a humble brag, She said, Wow, I thought
Speaker 1: you were a lot younger I thought you were in
Speaker 1: your early twenties, and she said, wow, we really should
Speaker 1: start you on some botox then, and I just thought,
Speaker 1: hold on a second. You've just told me how apparently
Speaker 1: young I look, and now you're telling me in the
Speaker 1: next breath that I need to start cosmetic procedures. And
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's definitely up to
Speaker 1: the individual what they want to do, because I think
Speaker 1: it is something that makes women feel a lot more
Speaker 1: confident in their skin. And if that's what you want
Speaker 1: to do, that's your decision. But I don't think women
Speaker 1: should be told by other people that they it's something
Speaker 1: that they need to do, and I don't think we
Speaker 1: should be scared of getting wrinkles and looking older. Also,
Speaker 1: that woman's talking about it as if it's just a
Speaker 1: obvious step when you hit your thirties that you have
Speaker 1: to then freeze any sort of signs of life on
Speaker 1: your face. And as you said, Sophia, if that's what
Speaker 1: someone wants to do, but people should be okay with
Speaker 1: not choosing that as well, because that is an individual's choice.
Speaker 1: I really hope moving forward that society stops categorizing women
Speaker 1: by their age, because it's not really something that we
Speaker 1: do to men, and I feel like by doing it,
Speaker 1: it just puts an expiration date on women's success or
Speaker 1: what women are and aren't allowed to do. So I
Speaker 1: think that's all we've got time for today. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us for another episode, and if
Speaker 1: you want to join in on the conversation, head over
Speaker 1: to our Facebook community, which is outspoken of the podcast community. Also,
Speaker 1: we'd love it if you could leave us a five
Speaker 1: star review