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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the

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Speaker 1: hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm

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Speaker 1: Amy Torb and coming up on today's show, Shameless Media's

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Speaker 1: podcast Woes, as their fashion podcast hosts.

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Speaker 2: Are labeled mean Girls.

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Speaker 1: The first outrageous built over on TikTok after influencers Sam

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Speaker 1: Guggenheimer shared a video of her bestie Bill Barker, referring

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Speaker 1: to a future housemate as a fatty.

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Speaker 2: Jen z it girl.

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Speaker 1: Sofa Dofa was also dragged into the drama, with many

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Speaker 1: wondering if they were taking a potshot at their former friend. Now, So,

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Speaker 1: if you'll believe it, it was actually Sam who willingly

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Speaker 1: shared this video to her socials. Yeah. So, this controversy

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Speaker 1: erupted when Sam shared a rather candid conversation between her

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Speaker 1: and fellow influencer Bill Barker. So the video was actually

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Speaker 1: shared to the model's secondary TikTok account, which is called

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Speaker 1: Tall Dreams Short Girl. So that account has over eighty

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Speaker 1: thousand followers. And this is a pretty common thing for

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Speaker 1: gen Z influencers to have these secondary accounts where they

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Speaker 1: share more casual sorts of content, which is generally less

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Speaker 1: filtered now. In the video, which has since been deleted,

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Speaker 1: Sam was getting ready to move out of the rental

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Speaker 1: that she shares with her friend Lily Sutcliffe, whose side

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Speaker 1: note works at Kukai. She's pretty high up there now.

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Speaker 1: She told her followers to apply for her room if

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Speaker 1: anyone was looking for a rental, and this is where

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Speaker 1: Bill jumped in and said that there would be some

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Speaker 1: prerequisites for those who apply. Let's have a listen to

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Speaker 1: what went down.

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Speaker 3: You can even have a picture of me on the wall.

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Speaker 1: Girl that.

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Speaker 4: No, you can have drawers.

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Speaker 5: Covered.

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Speaker 2: Bill, What the fuck? That is so true? No one

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Speaker 2: is not.

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Speaker 3: Bill anyway. He's absolutely been online. We recorded a podcast

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Speaker 3: today and it was honestly diabolic. I'm keeping it in.

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Speaker 3: I'm keeping it in. I am, I am. I'm not

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Speaker 3: editing it out.

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Speaker 2: I'm editing that one out.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, that's the update.

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Speaker 3: Shruggling out here.

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Speaker 1: For those who haven't seen this video, Sam is looking

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Speaker 1: almost faux shocked by Bill's comments, but she also looks

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Speaker 1: as though she's smirking and sort of laughing.

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Speaker 2: I think the fact that Sam didn't flag this during

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Speaker 2: the editing process and willingly uploaded it herself maybe a

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Speaker 2: bit of a reflection of the conversations that go on

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Speaker 2: behind closed doors that they perhaps don't even blink an

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Speaker 2: eyare to.

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Speaker 1: But that's the thing that's so confusing about this is

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Speaker 1: in the clip, she says, I'm going to expose you.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna put this out there. I'm not editing this

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Speaker 1: out because Bill was like, please don't upload this. But

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Speaker 1: she has actually edited the clip because she bleeped out

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Speaker 1: her former friends so for Dopah's name in this, so

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Speaker 1: she did have some time to edit it. It's not

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Speaker 1: like she just threw it up online without thinking. I'm

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Speaker 1: not looking an excuse, but we need to point out

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Speaker 1: that these influences are in their early twenties, but they

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Speaker 1: have been on social media for such a long time

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Speaker 1: that that's what's most surprising that they would think that

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Speaker 1: this was.

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Speaker 2: Appropriate to share.

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Speaker 1: I think the thing that is a little bit awkward

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Speaker 1: to is that I know we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about mean girls and this tag of mean girls in

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Speaker 1: this episode. But Sam has been followed by this mean

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Speaker 1: girl persona that people have. I don't know whether they've

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Speaker 1: you could say, they've created it of her online or

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Speaker 1: whether she's had a few comments which have made people

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Speaker 1: think that way about her. It also doesn't help that

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Speaker 1: Sam's roommate Lily, who has been dragged into this drama,

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Speaker 1: works at Kokai, and I think that there's always been

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Speaker 1: a bit of a stereotype about the type of people

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Speaker 1: that work in those stores. They're always very thin. Kokaie

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Speaker 1: is a shop that's not very inclusive. Sammy also worked

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Speaker 1: there herself, and I think in the last twelve months

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Speaker 1: there have been a lot of skits on TikTok about

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Speaker 1: cook on. I think this conversation was very revealing. You

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Speaker 1: almost get the feeling that these sort of phobic conversations

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Speaker 1: are regular occurrence potentially in this friendship group for their

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Speaker 1: not to be much thought about just chucking this up online.

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Speaker 1: I just want to also point out that this wasn't alive,

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Speaker 1: so this wasn't a live that was chucked up on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: Sam actually chose to post this video, and it's just

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Speaker 1: super confusing because I wonder where this leaves their friendship,

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Speaker 1: because if I was Bill, I'd be feeling pretty pissed

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Speaker 1: off that she just really nearly uploaded this.

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Speaker 2: This kind of reminds me of the situation with Anna

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Speaker 2: Paul early last year when Mikayla Tester came out and

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Speaker 2: accused her of calling a fan fat and sweaty, and

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Speaker 2: she also apparently made comments about influencers having close set eyes.

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Speaker 2: I think people really love when influencers get called out

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Speaker 2: for being the type of people that you perhaps think

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Speaker 2: that they may be behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: It's also very reminiscent of that YouTube video that Michael

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Speaker 1: Finch put up. Remember he and Sky Wheatley were in

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Speaker 1: the car and Skuy said a few offensive things about OnlyFans,

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Speaker 1: and she was furious at Michael for leaving the content

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Speaker 1: in because she said, well, I just assumed he would

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Speaker 1: edit it out, and that seemed to have caused a

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Speaker 1: few between those two as well.

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Speaker 2: I need to know where Sofi Dofa actually fits into

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Speaker 2: this fat shaming comment, because Sam referenced the fact that

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Speaker 2: she and Bill had just recorded a podcast about Sofa Dopha. Now,

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Speaker 2: Sofa Dopher and Sam I haven't been seeing eye to

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Speaker 2: eye recently because Sofa Doper is publicly friends again with

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Speaker 2: Izzy Armitage, who is of course Sam's ex best friend,

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Speaker 2: ex podcast host. What is going on with all of that?

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Speaker 1: The reason that Sofi Dofa has been dragged into this

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Speaker 1: is because of the timing. So Bill made the derogatory

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Speaker 1: comments about the potential flatmate, and then he suddenly started

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Speaker 1: talking about Sofa Dopher and comments that Sam potentially made

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Speaker 1: about her on a podcast that they recorded. So people

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Speaker 1: were putting two and two together and thinking, well, are

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Speaker 1: they making these awful comments about Sofa Dopo or is

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Speaker 1: this all connected in some way?

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Speaker 2: I thought that was a bit of a stretch, because

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Speaker 2: when I watched the video, at no point did I

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Speaker 2: think that they were calling Sofa Dofa fat, because I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's just a ridiculous comment anyway, because she clearly isn't.

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Speaker 2: She is a straight sized woman who has an incredible physique.

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Speaker 2: So I'd never put two and two together.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon? This was some weird way to drum

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Speaker 1: up downloads for Bill's podcast that Sam was appearing on.

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Speaker 1: I just don't understand why anyone would put this out.

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Speaker 1: I think it was just them being careless. As you

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Speaker 1: would imagine, the backlash was very swift. There were a

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Speaker 1: lot of followers who were outraged by Bill's comments and

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Speaker 1: the fact that Sam thought it was acceptable to post

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Speaker 1: the video. Now, Sam and Bill decided to address the

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Speaker 1: outrage during a live on TikTok and surprisingly doubled down.

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Speaker 1: They essentially said it was their audience's fault for not

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Speaker 1: being able to take a joke. Let's take a listen

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Speaker 1: to what they said.

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Speaker 3: But on the Internet a joke, so we make silly

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Speaker 3: things all the time and sometimes it's not appropriate to

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Speaker 3: put it on the Internet. And I will admit Bill

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Speaker 3: asked me tojoy it.

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Speaker 2: I still thought it was funny.

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Speaker 3: I didn't think it'd get taken out of the context.

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Speaker 2: But again, I forget.

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Speaker 3: That the Internet doesn't know how to take a joke sometimes,

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Speaker 3: and it was purely an inside joke.

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Speaker 2: If James Charles he blocked me down, Fatty, then I

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Speaker 2: can Yeah, it was just like a Jesus. I love everybody.

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Speaker 6: I was fat One's too.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to know the context and for them to

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Speaker 2: explain how this comment was funny. I mean, that just

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Speaker 2: makes the whole situation ten times worse. What an absolute

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Speaker 2: echo chamber. This group of friends is currently living in

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Speaker 2: the fact that they thought it was okay to then

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Speaker 2: put this information out after receiving the backlash as well.

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Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say that Sam and Bill

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Speaker 1: don't work with a PR team because this response. I

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Speaker 1: just you'd be mad to tell anyone to put this out.

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Speaker 1: I love that he has used James Charles's actions as

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Speaker 1: an excuse for his own comments. I mean James Charles's

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Speaker 1: comment didn't fly then as well, He's been highly canceled

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Speaker 1: for a number of bills that he's done.

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Speaker 2: Also, how do you feel as their audience being blamed?

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's not. It's not our fault for saying this

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Speaker 1: offensive comment. It's your fault for having apparently a sense

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Speaker 1: of humor. Well, followers were outraged by this clip, and

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Speaker 1: they didn't believe that Sam or Bill were sorry at all.

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Speaker 1: I would love to ask what is the punchline of

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Speaker 1: this joke? Because I am rather confused. I saw that

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Speaker 1: people were so confused by this live that they thought

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Speaker 1: potentially it might have been AI. I think Influence updates

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Speaker 1: AU posted and said we haven't confirmed if it's actually them,

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Speaker 1: because it's like, why the hell would they ever put

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Speaker 1: this out there?

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Speaker 2: Willingly Well.

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Speaker 1: A few days later, Bill addressed the controversy by sharing

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Speaker 1: a black and white tile to his Instagram story as

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Speaker 1: they all do, and in it he said he wanted

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Speaker 1: to address the clip going around, but instead of actually

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Speaker 1: apologizing for what he said, he again apologized for how

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Speaker 1: it came across. He wrote, I completely understand how it

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Speaker 1: can be taken the way it has, and regardless of

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Speaker 1: how it was meant, I want to apologize for context.

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Speaker 1: I was rage baiting Sam in that video with sarcastic

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Speaker 1: comments about someone replacing her Melbourne room. He continued, saying

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Speaker 1: it was meant to be banned between friends and he

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Speaker 1: was trying to wind Sam up, which is a common

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Speaker 1: dynamic in their friendship group. He also clarified that his

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Speaker 1: comment wasn't directed at any specific person and that it

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Speaker 1: doesn't reflect his views or how he feels about people's bodies.

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Speaker 1: He also confirmed that his comments were not about Sofa

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Speaker 1: Dofa and he was not body shaming her in any way,

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Speaker 1: and that his sarcastic comments were completely separate from his

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Speaker 1: comments about Sofa Dofa and the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Now, since this sort of non apology, Bill Barker has

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Speaker 2: now put another apology on his TikTok where he goes

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Speaker 2: into great detail. He sounds a little bit more sincere,

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Speaker 2: but it's like hang on when you're on your third attempt,

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Speaker 2: any authenticity is taken away. You're only putting this apology

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Speaker 2: out now to try and redeem yourself to the masses.

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Speaker 2: Well over the weekend, Sam also apologized, so she wrote,

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Speaker 2: a few days ago, I shared a video that included

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Speaker 2: a conversation which should have never happened and absolutely should

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Speaker 2: never have been posted online. The language used in that

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Speaker 2: moment was inappropriate and unacceptable. I want to make it

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Speaker 2: clear that the comments made were not directed at any

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Speaker 2: specific person or influencer. However, I understand that, regardless of intent,

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Speaker 2: what was said was offensive and hurtful. I take full

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Speaker 2: responsibility for posting the video without properly reviewing it beforehand.

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Speaker 2: That was a mistake, and it does not excuse what

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Speaker 2: was said. I should have exercised better judgment. I am

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Speaker 2: genuinely sorry to anyone who was hurt by my actions.

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Speaker 2: I take accountability for this and will ensure I learn

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Speaker 2: from it and do better going forward. So they really

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Speaker 2: have changed their tunes since this live It feels like

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Speaker 2: Sam's manager wrote that because it was quite well put together. Well,

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Speaker 2: to be fair, it was a much better apology than

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Speaker 2: the second go by Bill Barker. But again, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: seem genuine when it's the second apology that they've had

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Speaker 2: to put out there. Sam also ended up sharing more

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Speaker 2: about the incident on her Snapchat story, so she revealed

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Speaker 2: she hadn't left the house that day. She was actually

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Speaker 2: meant to attend the Formula one, but she said she

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Speaker 2: didn't feel like she deserved to go to something so

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Speaker 2: amazing after upsetting so many people on the internet. It's

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Speaker 2: interesting because Sofa Dofa was there very loud and proud

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Speaker 2: at the event with Jackie Alexander. They actually made a

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Speaker 2: few videos taking potshots at Bill and Sam Well.

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Speaker 1: Sam also said that she was so annoyed by her

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Speaker 1: behavior and for betraying and exposing her best friend and

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Speaker 1: caught her actions immature and stupid. She then said this

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Speaker 1: about Sofa Dopa.

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Speaker 3: The only thing I really want to get across is

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Speaker 3: that I was never talking about sof Spotty or he

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Speaker 3: was never implying anything about so it was completely different

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Speaker 3: and I just need to like think more and I'm

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Speaker 3: not excusing my actions.

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Speaker 1: Sam also went on to say that she's not trying

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Speaker 1: to excuse her actions, but a big part of her

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Speaker 1: ADHD is not thinking and feeling like she's in a

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Speaker 1: rush to post content, and she said that she's not

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Speaker 1: going to be on social media for a few days

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Speaker 1: because she needs to learn, and she may not even

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Speaker 1: return to social media because she's clearly I'm not a

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Speaker 1: good person. She also said that as someone who has

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Speaker 1: suffered from an eating disorder before, that she needs to

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Speaker 1: grow up and not contribute to that sentiment online. I

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Speaker 1: understand that her first time around was not an apology

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Speaker 1: at all, but it seems like she has actually thought

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Speaker 1: about the way that this content has come across action.

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Speaker 1: It appears that she's really taken on board some of

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Speaker 1: the comments that have been left to her, because you've

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Speaker 1: got to remember what they These guys have been copying

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Speaker 1: it a lot from their followers.

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Speaker 2: What I don't get is why share that on Snapchat?

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Speaker 2: Why not put that on your main feed on TikTok.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm guessing it's because you can't comment on

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Speaker 2: a Snapchat story, but I think it would have been

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Speaker 2: beneficial for her to share that on her TikTok.

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Speaker 1: Also, for Dofah hit back in a recent YouTube blog.

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Speaker 1: Let's have a listen to what she said.

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Speaker 4: Always bacon you don't like bacon.

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Speaker 7: Of the bacon, we obviously do, just like in current times.

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Speaker 1: I would never call someone on that, so.

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Speaker 2: Ok, obviously we're not psychopaths. I quite enjoyed this. I

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Speaker 2: like it when influencers kind of have a bit of

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Speaker 2: a jab, but it's not so ultra diirect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Bill Barker ended up commenting underneath this video

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Speaker 1: and he wrote using a word like that is crazy work,

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Speaker 1: as if Sofa has never made a mistake before, Like, sorry,

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Speaker 1: but I would never make fun of Steve Erwin's passing

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Speaker 1: and to not even keep up the apology. Sorry, but

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Speaker 1: we've all made mistakes and a learning now. For those

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Speaker 1: who don't remember that incident, sofadoph dressed up as the

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Speaker 1: stingray that killed Steve Irwin for Halloween one year, and

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Speaker 1: she obviously copped it for that. I think it's important

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Speaker 1: to point out that sofidopha was nineteen at the time

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Speaker 1: and apologized over the incident. I mean, this is the

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Speaker 1: issue with being online at such a young age. These

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Speaker 1: things follow you around. But I mean, it doesn't sound

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Speaker 1: like Bill Barker is genuinely sorry if he's throwing up

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Speaker 1: things that happened like six years ago. Yeah, Steve Irwin

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Speaker 1: died in two thousand and six, so I think it

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Speaker 1: was around the time that sofer Doofa was born, which

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Speaker 1: is pretty well. It wasn't the best costume to dress

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Speaker 1: have it. I can see why everyone was so offended.

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Speaker 1: But as you pointed out, Kate, I think this shows

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Speaker 1: just how young these influences are and they are going

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Speaker 1: to continue to make mistakes. They just actually have to

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Speaker 1: own up to their shit.

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Speaker 2: 'll get a PR manager on board to help them

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Speaker 2: make an apology that actually sounds genuine. Now, in terms

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Speaker 2: of Sam Guggenheimer's social media hiatus, it only lasted a

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Speaker 2: couple of days. She returned to social media on Wednesday

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Speaker 2: with a video documenting her move to Sydney. She didn't

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Speaker 2: actually have any audio in the video. Instead, she wrote

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Speaker 2: a long caption about how the time offline had made

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Speaker 2: her reflect on the fact that she'd lost her purpose

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Speaker 2: and that she was trying to rebuild and regroup. People

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Speaker 2: weren't buying it, though there was a lot of negative

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Speaker 2: commentary on her video. I think it's going to take

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Speaker 2: a while for her and she just can't come back

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Speaker 2: after a couple of days.

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Speaker 4: Oh fuck, and how this was pretentious.

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Speaker 1: Shameless Media has come under fire for a segment that

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Speaker 1: air on their fashion podcast Stylish. The hosts have been

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Speaker 1: labeled aggressive and mean girls after they disagreed with content

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Speaker 1: creator tams And Wong's think piece on personal style and

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Speaker 1: taste Kate. The drama was all over my for you page.

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Speaker 1: Can you bring us up to speed with who the

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Speaker 1: main players are?

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Speaker 2: Let's start with Stylish So. It is an Australian fashion

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Speaker 2: podcast produced by Shameless Media Now. Many listeners will be

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Speaker 2: familiar with Shameless Media as it is the media company

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Speaker 2: behind one of Australia's biggest podcasts, Shameless So Shameless is

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Speaker 2: a pop culture podcast hosted by Michelle Andrews and Zara McDonald.

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Speaker 2: Since it launched in twenty eighteen, it has racked up

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Speaker 2: over one hundred million downloads now. Off the back of

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Speaker 2: Shameless's massive success, the network has expanded to include new

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Speaker 2: shows like Everybody Has a Secret, Inherited and of course

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Speaker 2: Stylish Now.

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Speaker 1: The difference between these new shows on the Shameless Media

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Speaker 1: network is they aren't hosted by Michelle and Zaras So.

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Speaker 1: Stylish has three hosts, Madison Sullivan, Thought, Joanna Fleming and

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Speaker 1: Anika Joshi Smith.

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Speaker 2: So Madison is.

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Speaker 1: The former senior brand marketing manager at Mecca, so she

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Speaker 1: now runs her own marketing consultancy company. She also creates

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Speaker 1: content under the handle Sales Ferry where she analyzes fashion

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Speaker 1: sales tactics, marketing campaigns, and also brand strategy. So then

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Speaker 1: there's Joanna, who is the only host who has previous

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Speaker 1: podcasting experience, so she used to be the host of

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Speaker 1: the Adore Beauty podcast. Interestingly, her experience isn't in fashion

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Speaker 1: but actually in beauty, so she is a dermal therapist

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Speaker 1: and skincare expert. As for Anaka, she is the founder

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Speaker 1: of a consultancy company that helps fashion brands expand into

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Speaker 1: global markets, so she's positioned as the host who has

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Speaker 1: insider knowledge in the fashion industry. Now, on the other

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Speaker 1: side of this debate is tams and Wong So. Tamson

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Speaker 1: is a London based fashion content creator. She originally worked

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Speaker 1: in finance before becoming a full time content creator. However,

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Speaker 1: she is not your typical fashion influence so she's not

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Speaker 1: the type of creator who shares clothing halls or get

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Speaker 1: Ready with Me style videos. Instead, she's known for posting

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Speaker 1: longer think peace style videos about taste, wealth, and fashion culture.

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Speaker 1: She's incredibly well respected and influential in the fashion space,

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Speaker 1: so much so that she has attracted over six hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty thousand followers on TikTok. She also has a

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Speaker 1: secondary account, which she refers to as a Burner account,

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Speaker 1: with around thirty thousand followers, which is a crucial element

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Speaker 1: to this story. She has the most amazing accent. I

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Speaker 1: love it. I could listen to her all day now.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the drama, it all started when tams

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Speaker 1: And shared a think piece to her Burner TikTok account

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Speaker 1: about how style and taste are developed. So she spoke

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Speaker 1: in her usual analytical manner and essentially made the point

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Speaker 1: that good taste develops over time through curiosity, experience, and

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Speaker 1: individual exploration rather than simply copying online trends. Let's take

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Speaker 1: a listen to some more of what she said.

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Speaker 8: You need to stop listening to strangers on the internet

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Speaker 8: telling you what is chic and what is good and

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Speaker 8: what is stylish because they can put together a nice

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Speaker 8: looking mood board or a sixty second video where they've

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Speaker 8: taken a load of images from Pinterest and been like,

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Speaker 8: this is it, guys, that I think good taste requires curiosity,

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Speaker 8: It requires friction, it requires longevity and practice. Whether you

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Speaker 8: love me or hate me, both my supporters and my

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Speaker 8: haters arelike will never say that I have bad taste.

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Speaker 8: And when I did a video about taste on my

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Speaker 8: main account, I saw a comment from somebody who was

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Speaker 8: gen Z or Gens, who had expressed the fact that

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Speaker 8: because their generation in particular have been told what to wear,

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Speaker 8: what the trends are, how to dress, and it's all

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Speaker 8: been dictated to they haven't had any chance to actually

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Speaker 8: curate their own sense of self.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she makes a good point. To be fair,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sick of saying everyone wearing the same thing

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Speaker 1: on TikTok. I mean, we've all seen that viral dish shirt,

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Speaker 1: the blue one that's oversized from all last.

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Speaker 2: Year, one that you own.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I own it again. I'm not saying that I

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Speaker 1: don't copy trends, but I'm saying she has a very

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Speaker 1: good point. No one wants to be different or unique

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Speaker 1: these days.

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Speaker 2: Well, this specific clip ended up featuring in a segment

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Speaker 2: on The Stylish Podcast where the host discussed sourcing styling

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Speaker 2: inspiration outside of algorithms. Now, despite seemingly sharing some of

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Speaker 2: Tamson's viewpoints. Bizarrely, the stylish host launched a four minute

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Speaker 2: attack directed at Tamsan, so it appeared that they'd taken

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Speaker 2: personal offense to Tamson's thoughts. As straight away, Anakas said

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Speaker 2: she felt attacked because she's in her pinterest era. Let's

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Speaker 2: take her. Listen to a snippet of what else was said.

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Speaker 2: How do you feel about it, Joe?

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Speaker 4: Oh fucking hell, this was pretentious. That video I watched

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Speaker 4: and I was just like.

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Speaker 7: This is the biggest first world problem I've ever heard

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Speaker 7: in my life.

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Speaker 4: She was in this video, She's.

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Speaker 7: Like, to have taste, you have to go and see

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Speaker 7: the art and see the brushstrokes in person.

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Speaker 4: Most of us are trying to get to work on time.

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Speaker 7: Okay, I love it so much when you get passed,

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Speaker 7: like when Joe gets passed off, guys as like savage

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Speaker 7: Sally comes out and I love it.

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Speaker 5: Give you the step to get on high horse and

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Speaker 5: I get on there. I'll help excuse me, use me

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Speaker 5: as the step lad. I'll get on all fours so

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Speaker 5: you can step on me to get up there.

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Speaker 7: It was just one of those things that I watched

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Speaker 7: and I was just like, oh, go touch some grass.

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Speaker 4: Honestly, you want to use interest to take your shoes off,

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Speaker 4: sweetie and go sound in nature. Yeah that's my take. Anyway,

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Speaker 4: go on, I love it.

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Speaker 2: Look, I'm inclined to gray.

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Speaker 5: And you know what, no one will ever accuse you

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Speaker 5: of not doubling down and saying what you feel with

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Speaker 5: your chest.

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Speaker 1: Wow. I mean I'm a bit taken back by that.

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Speaker 1: It didn't stop there. Following this outburst, Madison shared her

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Speaker 1: thoughts on the topic, Let's have a listen.

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Speaker 7: What I didn't like about this take was you're not

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Speaker 7: stylish or you don't have taste if you don't source

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Speaker 7: your taste outside of the internet.

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Speaker 4: And it has to have friction, Like we're allowed to

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Speaker 4: get our inspiration from anywhere.

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Speaker 7: At the moment, I'm getting inspiration from walking through other

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Speaker 7: people's houses hoping that I can potentially buy it.

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Speaker 5: Well, do you know what I was going to say,

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Speaker 5: I've got more than enough friction. I'm a thirty nearly

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Speaker 5: one year old woman who is single with a big

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Speaker 5: fat gold Retriever, running my own business, working like a dog.

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Speaker 5: There is more than enough fucking friction in my life.

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Speaker 5: So you know what, you back the fuck off and

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Speaker 5: if I want to find a jacket on a served

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Speaker 5: ad on TikTok, you leave me the fuck alone, tells

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Speaker 5: me to buy the blush on Instagram. Guess what if

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Speaker 5: it looks good and she's got the same complexion, I'm

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Speaker 5: going to fucking buy it.

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Speaker 7: I've got fucking chaste.

439
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 3: She like deceased right now, because I'm like, have we

440
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 3: ever been more personal?

441
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: Clearly these women were having a bad day. Did we

442
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 1: listen to the same original video of Tamson?

443
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 2: She didn't even say.

444
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 1: Anything offensive, like what trick it look? I mean sometimes

445
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 1: on this podcast, even when I haven't been riled up

446
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 1: about something, sometimes you guys say to me, oh, your

447
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 1: tone sounds off. I wonder if this was a case

448
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: where maybe they were trying to be funny, but their

449
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 1: tone was just off. It was just weird. Why it

450
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 1: sort of gives this insight maybe into what is said

451
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 1: when the microphones are turned off. That's what it sounded like.

452
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 1: We'd somehow been a fly on the wall of an

453
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 1: off my conversation. Well, there was a comment made that

454
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: they aim to make it feel like a conversation between

455
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,719
Speaker 1: girlfriends at a wine bar, that you're getting an insight

456
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,400
Speaker 1: into but I mean, I was just taken aback by

457
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 1: the swearing, the aggressive nature, the back the fuck off

458
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: like it was like they had taken it so personal.

459
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: I also can't get over the fact that as the

460
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: discussion went on, the Stylish hosts inadvertently agreed with Tamson's posts.

461
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 1: They admitted that they were bored of their social media

462
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: feeds and have been looking for other places for inspiration,

463
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: like people watching in Paris.

464
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 2: This was precisely Tamson's whole point.

465
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 1: But what I didn't understand was and their first rant

466
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: about her, they were acting as if she was so

467
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 1: pretentious to even be, you know, focusing so much on

468
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: fashion when they have a fashion podcast when the whole

469
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: life is fashion. Yeah, isn't this what your whole podcast

470
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 1: is about?

471
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 4: Different?

472
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 1: For instance, you were on a pop culture podcast or something,

473
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: or a podcast about crime or something. I was like,

474
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 1: Oh my god, how ridiculous is this this woman who's

475
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 1: so invested in fashion.

476
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: Well that's the interesting thing because since this all has

477
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 2: blown up, a lot of stylish listeners have come out

478
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 2: and said, look, I actually really enjoyed the podcast to

479
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 2: begin with. It's been running for nearly two years now, However,

480
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 2: they said that it's not really a fashion podcast anymore.

481
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: It's just three women dissecting different stories that are sort

482
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: of loosely linked to fashion. It was interesting though, because

483
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 2: for the research for this topic, I listened to the

484
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: full episode, and it's not a podcast that it really

485
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 2: interests me. I'm not really that into fashion. But the

486
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: aggressive tone actually was throughout the whole episode, because there

487
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 2: was a segment they did earlier in the show where

488
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: they were talking about this content creator who's come out

489
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 2: and said that as soon as they find out another

490
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 2: content creator is either in their bridal era or has

491
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: a baby, they unfollow that person and they went to

492
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 2: town on them as well. I also want to point out,

493
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 2: in terms of you were saying before, like, oh did

494
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 2: they all have a bad week? Anakarus thirty nine weeks

495
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: pregnant and this was the.

496
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: Last podcast that she recorded before going on atturning leave.

497
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: So I feel like if anyone's getting a free pass,

498
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: it should be her because I had pregnancy rage.

499
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 2: I mean, she was probably the least offensive one on there.

500
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: That's the thing, Like, I don't want to be hypocritical,

501
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: because I know sometimes we jump on and have a

502
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: bit of a rand like that. I think it's just

503
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: surprising because generally under the Shameless banner, everything is very

504
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: thought out, there's not too much controversy. What I'm surprised

505
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: about is anytime we have a rant, it might have

506
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 1: been something personal that's happened to us, or we've had

507
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 1: a run with an influencer and we've gone on a

508
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: subs episode and had a bit of a rant about it.

509
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: But this seemed really like this wasn't premeditated. They have

510
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: very triggering for them, maybe to see are so into fashion.

511
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 1: They were very triggered by her comments. Now. It was

512
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: at this point that Tamsen entered the chat, so rather

513
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 1: than calling out the podcast on her main channel, she

514
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: kept the conversation on her burner account. So she admitted

515
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: that she had never heard of the Stylish or Shameless

516
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: podcast before, and only because aware of this segment after

517
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 1: her followers sent her the clips stylesh had posted on

518
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: TikTok Now. She said she initially planned to laugh off

519
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: the commentary because she thought it was a small indie podcast.

520
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: Is that a bit of a burn there? However, since

521
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: learning how big the podcast was and listening to this segment,

522
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: she felt compelled to address it now, She described the

523
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: segment as weird as hell and unnecessarily aggressive. She then

524
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: said this.

525
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 6: But I do believe if you're going to have a

526
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 6: whole podcast and business structured around fashion, lifestyle and taste,

527
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 6: and you're going to call out somebody aggressively for their

528
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 6: opinion on fashion, lifestyle and taste, you should be able

529
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 6: to then engage with not only your audience, but the

530
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 6: perspective of somebody giving you a new leans on fashion

531
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 6: lifestyle taste. I did not choose to be on that podcast.

532
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 6: You chose to talk about me, and unfortunately for them,

533
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 6: I happen to have a far bigger audience than maybe

534
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 6: they anticipated, which is why they've just deleted videos or

535
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 6: their deleting comments. We're not just two random women fighting

536
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 6: on the internet with stitch videos like this.

537
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 2: This is the bread and butter of what the three

538
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: of you girls do. Now. I want to point out

539
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 2: this comment is in reference to the fact that tams

540
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 2: And posted her original video on her burner TikTok it's

541
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: pretty interesting.

542
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: Despite her addressing the podcast drama again in this burner account,

543
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: the video has been viewed over the five hundred and

544
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: sixty thousand times at the time of recording. She ended

545
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: up finishing this video by imploring the podcast host to

546
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: tag her in the video next time, rather than trying

547
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: to hide it from her, which I thought was an

548
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: interesting take because it's not something we do at Outspoken,

549
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: Like we often talk about influencers post the videos on

550
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,239
Speaker 1: social media and then don't tag them.

551
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: But I found that feedback interesting.

552
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: Well from our perspective, it's because you don't really want

553
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: to wave a bit of a red flag to a bull,

554
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: do you know Ianna be like, hey, look over here,

555
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: we're talking about you. I think that the stylish host thought, oh,

556
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 1: this is pretty game on. Let's have a bit of

557
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: a crack about this. We'll have a bit of a

558
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: laugh at this pretentious content that she's put out there.

559
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: Because she's only got thirty thousand followers, she's never going

560
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: to hear this, and her followers are going to have

561
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: a go back at us. I don't think that they

562
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: ever would have done it if they realized that she

563
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: had over half a million followers. I think the reason

564
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: why this story has had such a huge response is

565
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: because this is very unlike shameless media. They are known

566
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: for inviting a lot of influences on their show. Zara

567
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: and Michelle themselves are friends with a lot of key

568
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: influencers in Melbourne. They actually changed up the whole format

569
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: of their show Shameless. Initially, I really loved their show

570
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: because they spoke well, they really critiqued influencer culture, which

571
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: obviously I was interested in. Then when they befriended a

572
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: lot of the influencers that they had on their show,

573
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: and I think also once they copped some criticism themselves,

574
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: well they became more influential themselves, so they understood what

575
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: it was like to be critique, so they switched up.

576
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I think part of their.

577
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: Strategy to switch up was also to reach a larger

578
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: audience because they started talking about US pop culture as

579
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: well as ukp croature. The topics very successful for them.

580
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: But I think that's why it's so weird, because you think, oh,

581
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: they probably would invite someone with half a million followers

582
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: on their show to be interviewed on stylish as opposed

583
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: to critique. Well, you can never imagine Zara and Michelle

584
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: having this conversation. I think that's what it comes down.

585
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: I think for a number of years now, Zara and

586
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 2: Michelle in particular, have shied away from controversial conversations, which

587
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 2: is why this has completely blown up at something that

588
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 2: we didn't expect from Shameless Media now. Following Tamson's response,

589
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: the upset that was bubbling online turned into a complete uproar.

590
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: So it wasn't just Tamson's followers who were unhappy about

591
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: the Stylish host commentary. Listeners of the Stylish podcast joined

592
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: the comments section to share their disappointment, and it got

593
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: to the point where people started coming out of the

594
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: woodwork saying that they've never liked Stylish, they have issues

595
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: with Shameless Media Now. The backlash was so great that

596
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: Stylish ended up dropping an episode on Sunday night addressing

597
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: the drama.

598
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 2: Now.

599
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: The episode was entitled Unpacking Your Feedback, and interestingly, Shameless's

600
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: co founders, Michelle and Zara with the first to speak

601
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: on the episode, and I felt like this was their

602
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: way of saying, we're taking this seriously.

603
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: They even reference that they were recording it on the weekend.

604
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 2: They've clearly been in crisis talks the whole weekend over

605
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: this issue.

606
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: I do appreciate them, as the founders of Shameless Media,

607
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: actually taking the time to appear on the podcast and

608
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: take things seriously.

609
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: I don't know.

610
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: I thought it was a bit odd. It was almost

611
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: like they had to bring in Mum and Dad to

612
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: apologize for them, or it's almost like they weren't trusted

613
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: to issue the apology. Today. This is Zara and Michelle's

614
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: media company, which is reflecting badly because of their action.

615
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: But it's a separate podcast. Yeah, but the reason Zara

616
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: and Michelle have to address this is because it is

617
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: their business at the end of the day, and they

618
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,239
Speaker 1: sign off on these podcasts going out. We've heard them

619
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: speaking numerous times about how they listen back to everything

620
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: numerous times before its air, So obviously they gave this

621
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: a ticke of approval. But can you imagine Mum and Mia.

622
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: They've got so many different podcasts on their network. Can

623
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: you imagine if Mia Friedman came on every one of

624
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: if some issue like this happened.

625
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, guys, just wanted to say sorry.

626
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: It just seemed odd to me. It seemed like it

627
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: almost made it more of a big deal, and it

628
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: almost seemed like they were trying to use the fact

629
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: that Michelle and Zara are so well liked to sort

630
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: of gloss over it.

631
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: It's not so much that they were on the podcast.

632
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: I actually think that was a good thing. It's the

633
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 2: way the podcast was recorded. Because they very clunkily made

634
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 2: this joke about how they were sitting close to each

635
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: other because they had to share a microphone. It was

636
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: like they were trying to soften the whole situation, and

637
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: it took so long for them to actually get into

638
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: the apology. It should have been acknowledged straight away. It also,

639
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: as you said, Amy, felt like the stylish hosts had

640
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 2: sort of been dragged into the principal's office and were

641
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: being reprimanded. Like it was just rather awkward. I did

642
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 2: like how Michelle and Zara acknowledged the fact that they

643
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: had a responsibility to unpack the backlash of negative commentary

644
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: directed at the segment. So they explained that they had

645
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: decided to release this discussion as a podcast episode rather

646
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: than a social media post because it would have been

647
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: a possible to capture what they wanted to say in

648
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: a sound bitey social media post. Now there's been a

649
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: lot said about this decision. Some people feel like it

650
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: should have been addressed on social media as well, seeing

651
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: that was a platform where this discussion blew up. Others

652
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: have accued Shameless for trying to profit off the drama

653
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: by getting people to listen to the apology on the podcast.

654
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: To be fair, I do need to point out that

655
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 2: the episode didn't feature ads. It did rank rather highly

656
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: on the podcast charts, though.

657
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: I think that it was the right decision though, because

658
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: a podcast is a format where you can actually go

659
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,719
Speaker 1: into detail about your reasonings behind things and actually apologize properly.

660
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the time these apology tiles

661
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: get taken out of context, and you could be accused

662
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: of trying to profit off that as well, because you're

663
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: going your Instagram account by it being directly sat on.

664
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: And let's be real, they probably didn't want to post

665
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: on social media because the comments would have been terrible.

666
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: I actually think they should have posted something on social

667
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: media acknowledging it as well turn the comments off if

668
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: that is the issue. Now, after Zara and Michelle said

669
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: their piece, all three hosts discussed their part in the drama.

670
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: So the first to speak was Madison, who admitted the

671
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: tone was off and that she came across as more

672
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: aggressive than she would have liked, but she still said

673
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: she stood by her comment. I felt like it was

674
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: almost as if she was centering herself as the.

675
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: Victim a little bit. She didn't seem very apologetic. She

676
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: was one of the only hosts who didn't actually apologize

677
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: to Tamsen.

678
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: I mean, to Joe and Anaka's credit, they both said

679
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: that they were sorry during the sixty minute episode, and

680
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: Joanna labeled her comments as flippant and unnecessarily aggressive. She

681
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: also admitted that she didn't do her due diligence when

682
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: looking at the broader context of Tamsan's content. At one point, though,

683
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: it felt like she was trying to shift the blame

684
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: to the producers and shirk responsibility. Let's take a listen

685
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: to what she said.

686
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 7: And in our whip, I remember kind of being like, oh,

687
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 7: I don't really have anything else to add to this conversation,

688
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 7: to be honest, because it just kind of feels like

689
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 7: a bit above me. I don't feel like I'm a tastemaker.

690
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 7: I don't feel like I'm super.

691
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 2: Tasteful.

692
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 4: I guess that's not how I would position myself.

693
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 7: So this kind of felt like a bit beyond me,

694
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 7: and I think I projected a bit of that onto

695
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 7: times in and I absolutely think that my language and

696
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 7: the way I came into it a bit aggressively towards

697
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 7: times and was completely uncalled for, and I apologized her

698
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 7: for that.

699
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 4: I think that was just unwarranted.

700
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: As for Anaka, she made a bizarre comment about not

701
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: understanding her own influence. Let's take a listen.

702
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,719
Speaker 7: I agree, and I think as well as woman like

703
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 7: I don't think we've even realized just yet how powerful

704
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 7: our influencers and how powerful our platform is.

705
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 4: On the Stylish podcast.

706
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: I don't know how I feel about that comment. I mean,

707
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: Stylish is on one of Australia's largest podcast networks. They

708
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: obviously received a hell of a lot of downloads. I

709
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: think that they were probably shocked by the reaction that

710
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: they received because I feel like maybe they felt a

711
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: bit protected being one of Shameless's podcasts because the you know,

712
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: Zara and Michelle are so well liked. Maybe they thought

713
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: they could get away just saying whatever.

714
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree now in terms of this apology, she

715
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: once the hosts had their say, Zara and Michelle then

716
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: addressed their role in the situation, so, like Madison, they

717
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: didn't apologize directly to Tamsen. Instead, Michelle said that the

718
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: tone probably missed the mark, but then went on to

719
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: defend the messaging in the segment, saying it was probably

720
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 2: something a lot of people related to. Now, this was

721
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: just one example of passive language that was used throughout

722
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 2: this apology. They really tried to soften what happened by

723
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 2: saying probably and a bit, which really took away any accountability.

724
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 2: I thought.

725
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: What I found really interesting was the discussion around the

726
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: Shameless media team. So Michelle essentially plays blame on the

727
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: production team, saying it was the producer's job to pick

728
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: up that the tone was off, as it would have

729
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: been tricky for the host.

730
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: To do so. I found that really strange, considering that

731
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 2: one of the hosts, Anaka, literally commented during the segment

732
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 2: saying that she'd never seen her co host more pissed off.

733
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: Like it was.

734
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 2: Clear that the conversation had escalated to a point where

735
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 2: they were all revd up.

736
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: I just don't know how it made the air. I mean,

737
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: they have a team of twenty at Shameless. They have

738
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 1: spoken about how they have this big production team. How

739
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,919
Speaker 1: did it get past so many years to the fact

740
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: that it went live.

741
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: It just doesn't make any sense to me.

742
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: I'd be annoyed. If I was one of the producers,

743
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: I'd be like, wait a second, yeah, they said this,

744
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: The hostol said this with microphones in front of their faces.

745
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 2: When you work in media, you really need to.

746
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: Understand that anytime a microphone is live, your comments could

747
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: get aired.

748
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: It was interesting because Michelle and Zara also made this

749
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 2: big point about the fact that the Stylish hosts are

750
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 2: actually contractors and not employees of the company. It was

751
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 2: kind of like, in a way, they were trying to

752
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: let them off the hook, because there's been a big

753
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 2: discussion about the fact that Stylish deleted the offending TikTok clip.

754
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 2: But that's sort of what sparked a lot of the

755
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: drama because people were like, well, they're trying to moderate

756
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 2: the comments, they're trying to hide it and sweep it

757
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 2: under the rug. Now Michelle touched on this. She said

758
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 2: that the cutdown of the segment they chose didn't reflect

759
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: the tone and the segment. She then went on to

760
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: complain that condensing and nuanced conversation into a ninety second

761
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: clip is difficult. Now, I don't disagree with that. That

762
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: is something that we really struggle without. Outspoken as Well, however,

763
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 2: I think in this case, the clip really correctly reflects

764
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: the tone the whole segment was aggressive. It's not like

765
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: it was taken out of context. And as your production

766
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: team that have clipped it up, I agree.

767
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,439
Speaker 1: I also feel like Michelle's comment about the stylish host

768
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: being contractors, it was almost like she was trying to

769
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: distance the hosts from the Shameless brand, like, no, guys,

770
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: they're just contractors. They're not employees of us.

771
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, their opinions don't reflect the Shameless media brand.

772
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: Michelle and Zara also touched on why the clip was deleted,

773
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: so they said it was the production team's decision to

774
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: take it down, not the hosts, and as contractors, the

775
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: host don't have anything to do with the social media

776
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: side of things, again pointing out that they're contractors.

777
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 2: They did say that the reason they made that decision,

778
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: which was a decision they said that they regretted. They said,

779
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: in hindsight, they shouldn't have delete the clip, but apparently

780
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 2: they said it was to protect anaker who, as I

781
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, is thirty nine weeks pregnant.

782
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: Well, Tamsen responded to the apology episode on TikTok and

783
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: she revealed she received a message from Michelle and Zara

784
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 1: prior to the episode going out. The DM read high Lovely,

785
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: It's mission Zara here, we're the co founders of Shameless

786
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: Media and therefore Stylish. We've watched your video and want

787
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: you to know that we've been chatting to the team

788
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: internally all weekend. The Stylish hosts will be working on

789
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: a thoughtful response to your feedback today. Thank you for

790
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 1: laying it out. We also want to be self aware

791
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: that the optics of three women on a podcast unpacking

792
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: one woman's video can feel and look heavy handed, and

793
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: we will take that on board into all of our

794
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: content decisions going forward. Miss and Zara, Kiss, Kiss Kiss.

795
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: I found this comment about the optics looking bad a

796
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 2: bit of a like Freudian slip. It's not like we're

797
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 2: actually sorry for what happened and how it made you feel.

798
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: We're sorry that the optics of it have looked bad

799
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,439
Speaker 1: on us, like it's reflected bad on our media team.

800
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 2: And I also didn't think it was appropriate to address

801
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 2: Tams and as Lovely with all the kisses and stuff.

802
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a professional situation. You are the

803
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: co founders of a media company, and you have really

804
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: offended this creator.

805
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: I want to hit back though. Okay, in fashion, that

806
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: is how people talk, though they do lots of kisses.

807
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: They say hey, lovely, hey babe. As someone who has

808
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: worked in fashion pr before, slightly, that.

809
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 2: Is how people talk.

810
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: But it's also strategic because it's really humanizing them. Yeah,

811
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: say be friendly. We're just two women who also own

812
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 1: this media. Can't be kind regards Zarah and Michelle.

813
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: I think it was good of them to do it.

814
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 2: I personally think it came across as a little bit inauthentic.

815
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: Now keen to not reopen a can of worms. Tamsen

816
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 2: then said this, So, in short, I am grateful they

817
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 2: took the time to respond.

818
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 6: I'm not going to dig into the response.

819
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 2: It's my firm.

820
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 6: Belief that it's completely up to their audience and their

821
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 6: listeners and anybody who was very upset or disappointed by

822
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 6: the whole segment. It's completely up to you to decide

823
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 6: how you feel about their response and whether you want

824
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 6: to keep supporting them and listening to them.

825
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 3: That's not for me to.

826
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 2: Tell you now. Interestingly, Tamsen went on to say she

827
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 2: doesn't condone being nasty to the podcast hopes because it's

828
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 2: not constructive to anybody, and it doesn't help further the

829
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: discussion or help people take accountability. Thought that was a

830
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 2: little bit of a potshot. All in all, though, I

831
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: thought her response was a real masterclass in grace and integrity.

832
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 2: I think a big positive to come from this whole

833
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: ordeal is the fact that it's directed a lot more

834
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 2: eyeballs to her content.

835
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 5: Yeah.

836
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 1: The overall feedback on Tamsan's video was that people were

837
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 1: not happy with Shameless Media's apology. Social media commentator Kate

838
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: Forster wrote it was a non apology, it was deflection,

839
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: and that comment got over three point four thousand likes.

840
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: Another person wrote, I find it greedy that they addressed

841
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: their apology only in their podcast. I don't think I

842
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: should be giving them downloads and streams to hear them

843
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: be decent about this. I guess I'll never know what

844
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: they said. Tamson responded, writing I will say it is

845
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: rather bizarre to have to go and find a response

846
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: by going to their podcast, which obviously drives views slash listens.

847
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 2: What really stands out to me after listening to their

848
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 2: apology is it seems like the team at Shameless Media

849
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 2: still don't quite understand what Tamson said in her video.

850
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 2: There is a complete misunderstanding going on because they kept saying, oh,

851
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 2: we stand by our point, but then when they went

852
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 2: on to explain what their point was, it was Tamson's

853
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 2: point all along. Like it just didn't make sense to me.

854
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: I mean, it was clear that this topic wasn't well researched.

855
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: It felt tacked on at the end of the segment,

856
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: and I think a big learning they're going to take

857
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: away is do better research. I mean, they have so

858
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 2: many staff working for them. That's what I don't understand

859
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: if this was just an independent podcast. I mean, I'm

860
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: the first to put our hand up. We are under

861
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: the pump here. We are a staff of three and

862
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 2: we produce four podcasts a week. There are times when

863
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: we definitely get it wrong. I'm sure in the future

864
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 2: that we will have to put out an apology at

865
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 2: some stage as well. But I was pretty shocked by

866
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 2: this apology that Shameless Media released, particularly because Michelle and

867
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 2: Zara positioned themselves on their podcast as PR experts. They

868
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 2: often critique apologies, and I was just surprised that this

869
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: is what they decided to put out there. That being said,

870
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 2: I do feel for the three hosts involved to a

871
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: certain extent because there has been a massive pile on

872
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 2: that we've seen, and again, they all are pretty new

873
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 2: to podcasting, apart from Joe, who's obviously done a bit

874
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: here and there. I think that they trusted the higher

875
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: powers at Shameless Media with the production team to not

876
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 2: give the green light for something that would be deemed unacceptable.

877
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: One thing that took me by surprise was how quickly

878
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 2: people started coming out of the woodwork to slam Shameless

879
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: Media as a whole. There was this rhetoric online that

880
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: the office has a mean girl energy, and I think

881
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: that is a result of listeners almost feeling like they've

882
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: been hoodwinked, because I mean, we touched on it earlier

883
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: many years ago. Shameless made this strategic move to steer

884
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 2: clear of controversial conversations, and I personally was disappointed when

885
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: this shift happened because I really enjoyed hearing their hot

886
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 2: takes on different topics, and over the years, I think

887
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 2: it's fair to say that the Shameless brand has turned

888
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 2: into one that's very likable. All of the women that

889
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: work there seem very relatable, I think.

890
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: It's a goal to work at Shameless Media, and I

891
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: think they very much want to be liked, which is

892
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: very normal, so much so that it often feels like

893
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: when they share opinions, they share an opinion that they

894
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 1: think their listeners want to hear. Well, they've actually said

895
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: that themselves, because they received a lot of criticism when they,

896
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: I suppose, said what they really think and put it

897
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: out there. That then they started to try and play

898
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: it safe and say things that they think that the

899
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: majority of their audience would agree with.

900
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And my guess is during this planning meeting for

901
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 2: the Stylish episode that the production team were trying to

902
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 2: make the host relatable because there's been a bit of

903
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 2: backlash saying oh, all they do is promote expensive fashion

904
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: that no one else can afford. So I think that

905
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 2: they thought, oh, will be relatable and say, oh, this

906
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 2: is a bit of a wank faest listen to this.

907
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: We all don't have time to do all of this.

908
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: We just are happy to check out our algorithm and

909
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 2: buy from there now. Unfortunately for Shameless Media, this is

910
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 2: completely backfired, and instead it came across as mean girly.

911
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: I actually hate the term mean girl, because we've had

912
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: this throne at our podcast a number of times. I'm

913
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 1: sure if there were three men on a podcast, maybe

914
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 1: talking about footy or whatever it may be, and they

915
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: had a bit of a rogue take, they wouldn't be

916
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: called mean boys. So I personally don't like that term myself,

917
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: and I'm actually surprised to hear that people have an

918
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: opinion of the Shameless podcast off as being mean girl energy.

919
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: If anything, I think it's the place where a lot

920
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: of women, a lot of young women want to work,

921
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: and it has sort of good vibes about it.

922
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: Well, I think why that rhetoric came out is because

923
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: mean girls does not match up with the nice girl

924
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: persona that Shameless Media have put out there. That's what

925
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 2: they've been pushing for you. So think when this stylish

926
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: episode dropped, the audience suddenly felt betrayed. And when you

927
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 2: feel betrayed, you lash out and say, oh this is

928
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 2: me and girl, you guys are all mean, which I

929
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: don't think is a fair reflection on Shameless media at all.

930
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: Do we reckon? There's also a bit of tall poppy

931
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: syndrome going on. I know we say this a lot

932
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: of the time, but recently. I mean it would have

933
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: been last year. Late last year, Shameless put out how

934
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: much money that they were earning. And I think that

935
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: any time in particular that women do this and we

936
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: see how much they're succeeding and how much money is

937
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: being turned by a business, suddenly people get their backs

938
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: up and think, oh ho. In a second, I thought

939
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: these people were my friends. But they're making a ton

940
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 1: of money off this. I'm going to be extra critical

941
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: of the next It's almost like people were hanging out

942
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: for them to do something that they could have a

943
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:43,720
Speaker 1: goal with them about.

944
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: I definitely think there is internalized misogyny at play to

945
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 2: a part, particularly because we hold female podcasters up to

946
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 2: such a high standard, and when they put a toe

947
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: out of place, we go, oh, well, they're a privileged

948
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 2: they're nasty because their entire bread is often the opposite

949
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: of that.

950
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: I would love to know where our listeners stand on

951
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: this topic. We will put up a thread in our

952
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: Facebook community which is outspoken the podcast community. On that note,

953
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: that is all we have time for today. Thank you

954
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: so much for joining us for this marathon of a podcast.

955
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: I feel like this is a long twile we've done

956
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: for a while, but I feel like we owed it

957
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: to our listeners because Monday was a public holiday, which

958
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: meant we didn't record a fresh episode for Tuesday.

959
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 2: So we hope you have enjoyed it.

960
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: If you do want to hear more content from us,

961
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 1: we drop a bonus episode every Thursday on Outspoken Plus

962
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: if you want to subscribe to that. All the details

963
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 1: are in the show notes.

964
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 2: This podcast was recorded on the traditional land of the

965
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 2: Ghana people of the Adelaide Planes. We pay respect to

966
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: elders past and present,