WEBVTT - Dale Thomas - Ordineroli Speaking 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.320 Ordinarily Speaking, there was a perception that I was happy, 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.440 go lucky and loving my life, when below the surface 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:20.680 there was a lot more going on. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:31.120 Soon time, Hello and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking. My guest 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:35.080 today is former AFL player Dale Thomas, known to many 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.959 as Daisy. Daisy has been one of the most recognizable 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.440 faces of the game this century. He played in a 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.720 Premiership at Collingwood in twenty ten before making a high 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:48.479 profile move to Carlton in twenty thirteen. Known as a 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.600 bit of a lad who loves a beer and a laugh, 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:55.360 things started to turn sour and childhood anguish resurfaced. In 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:59.160 this episode of Ordinarily Speaking, Daisy reveals just what he 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:03.280 has endured throughout his life. It's pretty heavy stuff. If 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:05.960 this chat is a trigger for you, please ask for help. 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.440 Lifeline or Beyond Blue are a couple of places you 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:16.960 can go. I hope you enjoyed the chatter. Well, Daisy, 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.160 thanks for spending some time with me. I really appreciate it. 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:23.399 You've started to open up a little bit about your 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.520 personal life recently in a public sense. Why have you 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:26.920 done that? 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.880 Well, firstly, thanks for having me. Look, I don't think 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.400 it's been by design to necessarily push it out there. 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.520 I think maybe more so, I've got more comfortable in 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.399 the person than I am, and that there's things that 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.600 I've gone through that I don't have to hide from anymore. 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.280 A lot of the stuff that I dealt with was 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.400 obviously there for a long period of my time of 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.800 my life, but I was never really comfortable in talking 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.440 about it. So there's been opportunities. You know, I did 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:57.880 that Jungle Show and I was able to have some 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.400 really good conversations in there, and you know, with no 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.240 intentions of pushing agendas or anything like that, just telling 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:07.240 my story. And I think that the fact that it's 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.560 relatable shows that a lot of people have either gone 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.480 through or going through similar things. 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:13.960 When you say you weren't ready, was that because you 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.640 were in a professional environment and you didn't want it 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:18.960 to be public or were you not ready within yourself? 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.200 Probably a bit of both. I think a lot of 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.560 the stuff that I dealt with or had to deal 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.040 with growing up, I didn't deal with, so that was 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.800 sort of my coping mechanism, which I learned later on 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.960 in life isn't a coping mechanism at all. So to 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.960 have that going on and to almost get away with 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.919 life by suppressing it and hiding from it was you know, 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.239 that was a way that and a technique that was working. 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:44.839 So I just continued on doing that. It probably wasn't 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.000 until life hit the skids and you know, I had 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.960 to dig a little deeper and delve into some of 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.600 those things that I then became aware of what I'd 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.040 been running from or hiding from, and then realized that 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.600 if I actually spoke about these things rather than just 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.200 hiding from them suppressing them, it made me feel a 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.600 lot better about myself. But as I said, the amount 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:07.480 of people who then related to it and were like, 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:09.480 thank you so much for speaking I've been dealing with 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.760 this that again. You know, I know that probably sounds 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:14.520 a bit selfish, but it made me feel better about 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:15.600 my situation as well. 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:18.919 We'll get to where you've ended up and how you 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.000 got help, but let's go back to the beginning. When 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.240 you say you had a bit of a tough childhood. 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.239 Tell me about your childhood. 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:28.320 Well, there was tough in senses at the same time. 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:29.880 You know, I wouldn't change it for the world. I 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.640 lived on a hobby farm, you know, I had mates. 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.760 We'd go ferreting, we'd kick footies, we do all the 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:38.760 things that kids did. It was just at times that 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.280 once you do get older and you look back and 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.080 you go, oh, that isn't actually a normal household. You know. 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:46.640 I had the world's best mum, which I'm lucky for, 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.480 but my old man was a drunk. You know, he 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:54.560 would be abusive at times. So for that to almost 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:58.280 be in normal, he's slightly weird. But you know, in 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.440 saying that, as I said about you know, she hit 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:05.160 us from that as much as she could and allowed 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.920 us to have a really great childhood. It's just that 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.120 some of those things that you probably don't realize what 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.320 you're taking on at the time then come up in 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.279 years later. I didn't see my old man from about 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.279 the age of thirteen until draft day. He then rocked 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:23.120 up unannounced on draft day, so I had zero contact. 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.120 So that's another thing that was I dealt with it 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:29.880 in the best way I could, which was pretend that 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:31.760 everything was fine on draft day. But that's a big 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:33.920 moment in my life that was sort of overshadowed by 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.920 him being there and somehow making about himself. So in 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:43.920 that sense, childhood was at times difficult. But throughout all 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.840 of that, I had my Mum who loved me unconditionally 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:48.960 and just did everything for me. I had my sister 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:50.919 as well my mates, but I also had footy, and 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:53.160 footy was the one thing that no matter what was 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:54.880 happening inside the house, I could go out and keep 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.680 the foot in the paddock. The weekend had come, I'd 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.359 look forward to go to school play footy. So footy 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.320 was definitely the one thing that I used as almost 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.160 a coping mechanism and just put all my efforts into 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.960 being the best I could at that for not only myself, 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.240 but there's almost a way out for Mum and a 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.800 better laugh for all of us, a safe space, yeah, 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.840 for sure. And I genuinely love footy, so I'm sure 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:20.240 we'll get to it at the end. But for that 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.880 to almost go full circle at some point is another 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.159 thing that to conceptualize is really weird. 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.480 When you say abusive, what's your earliest memory of that, 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:32.800 I just like my sister. 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.560 It was Mum, my sister, me and Dad and just 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.240 him just being drunk, carrying on me, get in the way, 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.120 getting shoved out of the way, things like that that 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.920 being a dad now would never do to a child. 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:51.240 So but again that's you know, I know it's not right, 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.440 but in the day of growing up, I'm sure you know, 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.240 we all have parents who talk about getting a clip 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:58.320 over the years or a smack on the barm, so 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.880 you know, it was obviously more than that, but yeah, 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.520 it's what it was. 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:06.880 Was he with your mum as well? 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.359 Yeah, you know, domestic violence in our house was something 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.680 that again wasn't normal, but there was definitely there and 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:16.960 not until growing up that you realize that that isn't 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:18.640 how most families interact. 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.240 What are your memories of that and how did you 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:22.040 cope as a kid. 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.960 See again, most of the memories are somewhat not suppressed, 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:29.760 but you can sort of, you know, you think of 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.880 good memories and everything comes back shiny and really vivid. 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:39.080 These things are obviously a bit darker. Yeah, I don't know. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:40.760 I think it just at times I just remember that 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.039 wanting to get out of the house and I would 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.200 do that, or you know, the odd time where I'd 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:47.960 feel the need to stick up for mum, you know, 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.400 as a small child, and then get your own come 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.200 uppance for that. It's yeah, used to wondering what's this 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.920 all about? I guess, you know, you always wanted dad 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.839 who's your hero, and you know, I guess I didn't 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.000 get that so that sense. But you know, as I said, 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:06.880 I'm thankful that I've got a mum who was not 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.120 only my heroes my mum, but she almosto took the 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.600 role as dad as well. So I didn't really think 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:14.840 that I was taking on a fatherly role or anything 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:16.600 like that. I was just doing what I had to 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.640 do to you know what I thought, I guess was 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:21.880 right at the time, and trying to help mum out. 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:23.920 Do you remember the last time you saw your dad? 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.640 No, not vividly. So he passed away when I was 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.200 about twenty. I think I didn't go to the funeral. 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:35.640 Things like that. I and I don't regret that decision. 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:39.000 It's just something that I literally grew up thinking I 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.080 didn't have a father, and if that's what a father is, 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:41.920 well I didn't want one. 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:44.800 When he walked Do you remember when he walked out? 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.520 And again, not really it was and the memories I 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.200 do have of that, like not vivid, but almost a 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.720 sense of relief, and it's, you know, the problem's gone 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:56.120 away to some extent when. 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.680 You think about it. Now looking back that did you 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.000 realize how big a thing it was at the time, 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.760 Because I sit here listening to you, I can't imagine 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:06.040 going through that experience. 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.040 Again, not really at the time. It's sort of that's 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.400 what it was. So we made the best of it. 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.240 You know, as I keep referencing to Mum, the way 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:18.560 she almost was able to hide us from us, So 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.160 what we saw was probably not the extent of what 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.960 was actually happening. So for her to do such a 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.080 good job and me still look back on childhood and 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.560 say I had a fantastic time for the most part, 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:31.840 you know, he's credit to her, because, no doubt, at 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.319 times it would have been scary for her and having 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.840 two kids in the house that you're trying to raise, 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.520 and you know, we all want the best for our 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:42.199 kids and we want them to have the best time. 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.000 So to still be able to do that in trying 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.040 circumstances is more credit to her than to what was 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:48.760 actually going on. 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:50.319 Tell me about your mum. 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.760 Mom's the best I look, you know, every time I 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:58.360 speak about her, I just think of what she did 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.160 for me and now what I'm doing for Matilda and 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.319 trying to understand how actual hard. It was. She had 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:07.560 two kids. My sister played elite level netball, so she'd 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:11.800 be at the Sports Netball center every weekend. I'd be 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.160 at more Well playing footy, and there was never one 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.400 time where Mum wasn't at one of our games. She would. 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.240 She had the little Masda bubble car and that thing 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:23.440 just punched out kilometers up the freeway and she just 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.560 made it work. We never went without footy boots, we 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:30.800 never went without being able to go to repsides or anything. 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.160 So and looking back, it was, you know, it would 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:35.880 have been so tough for her to do that. She 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.240 was pretty much the only income in the house, being 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.920 a teacher, and again we never went without some incredibly 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:46.640 grateful for what she did for me, but in a sense, 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.240 my footballing career was as much about making her proud 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.080 of me because of what she sacrificed. 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:53.880 She sounds like a bit of a superhuman. 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:58.120 It's incredible that she can do what she did what 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.320 she did and now she's able to enjoy footage. She 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.679 still came along every week of my career. I don't 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:06.480 think she missed a game. She even traveled into state 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:10.000 towards the end. So she's an amazing person, someone I'm 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:15.120 thoroughly thankful and grateful that became my mum and was 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.600 able to steer me through. And now I guess we 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:19.880 can enjoy life. 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:21.880 When you speak about draft days and memories of your 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:22.640 mum as well. 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.560 Yeah, there is, for sure. I think the enjoyment she 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.240 had and the pride that I could see in her 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.440 face when I got read out to pick two, but 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.400 again to have that overshadowed by the old man rocking up, 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:40.319 was it sort of tarnished the day and I knew 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.040 that she would have been worried about what the old 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.560 man was doing there and how that was going to 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.880 play out. Maum only would have wanted the best for me, 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:52.439 and then to be drafted in front of every football 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:54.160 club and then have a dad that you haven't seen 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:59.720 for ten years rocker. It's just a bizarre thing. So luckily, 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:01.320 I think the footy clubs were all aware of it, 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.040 whether I'd told him throughout the draft process and interviews 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.360 or Mum had told them, But for them, yeah, I 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.200 think she would have just been a nervous wreck saying, 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.480 you know what's going to happen and hopefully this just 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.400 goes away. Because she knew that I would have been 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:14.680 hating what was happening as well. 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.040 Did you end up physically seeing him or talking to him? 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.440 Yeah, he was jumping in photos and whatnot. It is like, 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:21.840 this is my son? How good is this? It's just 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:23.640 the most bizarre concept. 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.920 Do you know why? What do you think he's motivational? 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.160 I'm not sure. To be honest, I don't know. To 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.040 be honest, I don't really care. I was able to 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.480 make sure that nothing came of it in terms of 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.280 no photo's got out. There was no mention of him 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.480 being there. It was all about me, mum and my sister. Yeah. 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.520 I I don't know whether he finally thought, you know, 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.360 which's well done, but I think it was probably more 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.439 an angle that jump on the coattails sort of set up. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:53.720 Did you see him again after that? Was there any 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:54.680 more contact? 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.880 I think he crashed a book launch that we did 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:03.520 at Collingwood once, But apart from yeah, like I just 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.120 if I saw him rock up, I'd get super anxious 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.199 and just wanted to go away. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:10.760 How does something like that impact on a. 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:15.200 Person, Well, it probably compounded all my troubles later in life. 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.120 To be completely honest with you, all the stuff that 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.719 eventually came up, you know, after injury and form and 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.040 changing clubs. Probably wasn't even so much to do with that. 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.440 It was more dealing with these things from childhood. So 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.640 you know, the anxiety of not knowing about things or 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:37.640 if people were being unpredictable. That sort of really triggered 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.040 me from my childhood. And at the time I didn't 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:41.679 know that. I just thought I was getting super anxious 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:43.520 for reasons unbeknown to. 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.400 Myself, because he was an alcoholic and would be. 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:48.960 Just someone but you didn't know. You'd come home to 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:50.839 you know, you'd had a great day and you'd come 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.000 home and almost be like, what's going on today? Or 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:54.880 you know, what's going on the next ten minutes? 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:56.640 So were there of a good days? 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:01.960 Again, I can't really remember them. I'm sure we would 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.680 have had some fun along the way, but as I said, 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.480 it's unpredictable, so even if it is good, you're sort 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:09.480 of sitting there with baited breath going when's it going 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.439 to turn to shit? Which is not a great way 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.240 to live. And as I said, that sort of was 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.960 something later in my life had started triggering all these 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:18.160 anxiety issues. 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:24.920 And yeah, so you get drafted, you play at the 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.680 biggest club, you're one of the biggest stars. The bleached hair, 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:32.160 all of that sort of thing. Did the anxiety surface 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.320 in that time or was it all pretty smooth sailing 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:36.320 at that point? 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.120 So footy at that point was all happy days. It 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.280 was you know, Sunchow's lollipops and rainbows. It was as 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:44.400 you said, I was drafted, picked two, like that was 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.360 the childhood dream. I got to play round one again, 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.400 childhood dream. Played Anzac Day four rounds in in front 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:52.800 of ninety thousand, took a hangar, pretty much hit the 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:57.240 match winner, and you know, fast forward five years we'd 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:01.120 won a premiership. It was just a constant onwards and 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:07.040 upwards and even the way you know from under fourteens, fifteen, sixteen, seventeens, eighteens, 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.200 there was sort of the same spiral. I put all 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.400 my effort into footy and everything sort of went perfect. 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:16.120 My under eighteen year of Gibbe Power made the VIC team, 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.280 made all astray and we won the Grand Final. I 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.680 got best on like it was. You talk about people 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.120 having great years in like VC and whatnot, getting ninety 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:28.360 nine point nine. That was literally my footy was my 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:30.000 highlight of schooling. 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:31.960 And that's so you're saying you didn't get ninety nine 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:32.840 point nine days. 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.400 From memory, I got thirty three point six. So to 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:40.360 anyone listening who's an academic, I'm sorry, but my footballing 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:44.520 was the ninety nine point nine perfect score. So that 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.840 was that. So everything was like and again I didn't 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.280 Football was the one thing that I kept going back 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.720 to and it kept providing and out for any troubles 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.240 that I had in my life. So it wasn't really 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:59.040 until I got injured and the football was not there 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.560 or it was taken away, and then coming back to 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:07.720 football then became scrutiny and pressure and the scrutiny I 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.680 speak I've been. That was the time when Twitter was starting, 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.920 so it wasn't just media into me. It was anyone 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.800 who could get their claws in. So that was when 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.400 football became the one thing I'd loved was almost taken 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.280 away and I had no other way of dealing with things. 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.080 And when you say get your claws in. 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:26.920 Yeah, well I don't want to sort of sit here 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.000 and say poor old me. But at the time any 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.920 there was yeah, I don't reckon. I could go a 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.440 day without an article being written on me in a 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.960 paper or someone reporting a story, and that even you know, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:43.720 that continued from once I left Colin Wood, probably more 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.160 so once I left, but then, you know, every year 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.280 it seemed like as soon as before round one start, 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.360 there was one journal in particular who would write an 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.440 article and just like, no matter how good things were going, 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.480 and then everyone would just jump on that. And you know, 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.000 it seemed like I just couldn't escape and that was 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:00.200 just bearing. 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:05.400 Me side, and that's bearing you inside. That's strong, that's strong. 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:07.960 It was because you know, you do a pre season 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.640 of like six months, you give your all. You're like, 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.080 this is it, this is going to be my year. 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.200 And one article, one blog punching out, you know, an 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:20.640 opinion piece purely for clickbait and traction. You know, he's 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:23.040 just like, well here it goes again, sort of set up. 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:24.520 And what about social media? 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.160 Yeah, well that was another one. That was a forum 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.800 that you don't learn about or we weren't versed in really, 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.080 and so then to have people, you know, a pretty 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.320 simple bloke, it's I call it as I see it. 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.200 You know, I wouldn't say to someone a line something 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.360 I wouldn't say to their face, so to then have 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.160 people just slamming me and tell me, you know you 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:47.160 pretty much, you're essentially you're a ship football, you're a 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:51.360 ship person. It's hard not to try and figure out, like, well, 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.160 why are they saying that? You know? And it sounds stupid, 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.960 and but you know when it's just coming and coming 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:58.760 and coming. And at that point I was reading it, 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.960 which is probably the dumbest thing. You sit there and 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.240 go what is this all about? Why am I doing this? 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.320 If this is what it's come to? Why even bother? 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.320 Does it get to a point as well where it's 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:13.399 one of those things that even if you don't believe 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.520 what people were saying, if they say it too often enough, 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.240 you start believing it's true or taking it on board. 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.280 I think so yeah, to some extent, you just it 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.720 was just there constantly like and no matter what I'd like, 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.880 I just couldn't seem to break it hard work, and 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.160 as I said, footy was always something that was able 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.320 to no matter what was going on, I could break it. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.840 The harder I worked, I seem to get injured, I 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:36.680 couldn't get back and play footy, or if I did 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:38.840 get back and play, I was underdone. And then wouldn't 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.800 perform and then they'd keep another load of shit on me. 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:46.240 So for that to get to the levels that it did, 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.000 you know, I genuinely just I didn't want to go outside. 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.439 I didn't want to pick up my phone. I was 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:53.200 just a I was a genuine mess. 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.000 So you just completely bunking down. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.400 Yeah, I hated it, like even the start of when 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.679 I first got drafted to Hollingwood and people recognizing me 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:03.800 in the street like that took so much getting used 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:05.399 to like it. And there was the points where I 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:06.879 hated that, like I didn't want to go out. I 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:08.280 didn't want to go to restaurants. I didn't want to 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.199 leave the house because I just I don't know, I 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:14.200 just got really anxious about people coming up, and which 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.040 is weird. But overcame that and then. 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:17.639 Did even talk at you. When you refer to it, 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.840 now you look anxious that you start feeling. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:24.560 I feel, you know, it almost jolts memories of you know, 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:29.320 the feelings that are attached with the story and to 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.600 have to be all you wanted was to play AFL 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.399 footy and then to get there and do it. You know, 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.600 you dream of kicking goals and people knowing you, I guess. 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.399 And then for that to live the dream and then 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:46.120 almost not appreciate it or really dislike what it actually 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.760 is was such a weird thing to conceptualize because that's 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.680 all I dreamt of. And again this was another lot 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.359 of feelings that I had when you know, changing clubs 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.679 and when I was absolutely copying it. Footy was always 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.520 meant to be the one thing that was rate and enjoyable, 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:06.920 and it was probably became the biggest bearer of shit 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:08.240 in my life. 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.479 So you went from Collingwood to Carlton, so the two 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.760 pretty much two of the biggest clubs in the land. 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.480 Not many people do that, certainly on high profile contracts 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:20.679 like you. And it was a big contract. And if 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:22.680 I remember it correctly, you were injured at the time, 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.160 had the ankle, wasn't it, which was taking some time 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.720 to get over. How much added pressure was there by 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.639 the size of the contract and the size of the move. 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:39.200 See, to me, I probably didn't give it enough not respect, 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.080 because I like, just in terms of how big a 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.320 deal it was in like, how many people actually gave 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.679 a shit from the outside world. I was like, no, 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:49.919 everyone will understand, you know, this is how it was. 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.480