Speaker 1: Ordinarily Speaking, there was a perception that I was happy,
Speaker 1: go lucky and loving my life, when below the surface
Speaker 1: there was a lot more going on.
Speaker 2: Soon time, Hello and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking. My guest
Speaker 2: today is former AFL player Dale Thomas, known to many
Speaker 2: as Daisy. Daisy has been one of the most recognizable
Speaker 2: faces of the game this century. He played in a
Speaker 2: Premiership at Collingwood in twenty ten before making a high
Speaker 2: profile move to Carlton in twenty thirteen. Known as a
Speaker 2: bit of a lad who loves a beer and a laugh,
Speaker 2: things started to turn sour and childhood anguish resurfaced. In
Speaker 2: this episode of Ordinarily Speaking, Daisy reveals just what he
Speaker 2: has endured throughout his life. It's pretty heavy stuff. If
Speaker 2: this chat is a trigger for you, please ask for help.
Speaker 2: Lifeline or Beyond Blue are a couple of places you
Speaker 2: can go. I hope you enjoyed the chatter. Well, Daisy,
Speaker 2: thanks for spending some time with me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: You've started to open up a little bit about your
Speaker 2: personal life recently in a public sense. Why have you
Speaker 2: done that?
Speaker 1: Well, firstly, thanks for having me. Look, I don't think
Speaker 1: it's been by design to necessarily push it out there.
Speaker 1: I think maybe more so, I've got more comfortable in
Speaker 1: the person than I am, and that there's things that
Speaker 1: I've gone through that I don't have to hide from anymore.
Speaker 1: A lot of the stuff that I dealt with was
Speaker 1: obviously there for a long period of my time of
Speaker 1: my life, but I was never really comfortable in talking
Speaker 1: about it. So there's been opportunities. You know, I did
Speaker 1: that Jungle Show and I was able to have some
Speaker 1: really good conversations in there, and you know, with no
Speaker 1: intentions of pushing agendas or anything like that, just telling
Speaker 1: my story. And I think that the fact that it's
Speaker 1: relatable shows that a lot of people have either gone
Speaker 1: through or going through similar things.
Speaker 2: When you say you weren't ready, was that because you
Speaker 2: were in a professional environment and you didn't want it
Speaker 2: to be public or were you not ready within yourself?
Speaker 1: Probably a bit of both. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: the stuff that I dealt with or had to deal
Speaker 1: with growing up, I didn't deal with, so that was
Speaker 1: sort of my coping mechanism, which I learned later on
Speaker 1: in life isn't a coping mechanism at all. So to
Speaker 1: have that going on and to almost get away with
Speaker 1: life by suppressing it and hiding from it was you know,
Speaker 1: that was a way that and a technique that was working.
Speaker 1: So I just continued on doing that. It probably wasn't
Speaker 1: until life hit the skids and you know, I had
Speaker 1: to dig a little deeper and delve into some of
Speaker 1: those things that I then became aware of what I'd
Speaker 1: been running from or hiding from, and then realized that
Speaker 1: if I actually spoke about these things rather than just
Speaker 1: hiding from them suppressing them, it made me feel a
Speaker 1: lot better about myself. But as I said, the amount
Speaker 1: of people who then related to it and were like,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for speaking I've been dealing with
Speaker 1: this that again. You know, I know that probably sounds
Speaker 1: a bit selfish, but it made me feel better about
Speaker 1: my situation as well.
Speaker 2: We'll get to where you've ended up and how you
Speaker 2: got help, but let's go back to the beginning. When
Speaker 2: you say you had a bit of a tough childhood.
Speaker 2: Tell me about your childhood.
Speaker 1: Well, there was tough in senses at the same time.
Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't change it for the world. I
Speaker 1: lived on a hobby farm, you know, I had mates.
Speaker 1: We'd go ferreting, we'd kick footies, we do all the
Speaker 1: things that kids did. It was just at times that
Speaker 1: once you do get older and you look back and
Speaker 1: you go, oh, that isn't actually a normal household. You know.
Speaker 1: I had the world's best mum, which I'm lucky for,
Speaker 1: but my old man was a drunk. You know, he
Speaker 1: would be abusive at times. So for that to almost
Speaker 1: be in normal, he's slightly weird. But you know, in
Speaker 1: saying that, as I said about you know, she hit
Speaker 1: us from that as much as she could and allowed
Speaker 1: us to have a really great childhood. It's just that
Speaker 1: some of those things that you probably don't realize what
Speaker 1: you're taking on at the time then come up in
Speaker 1: years later. I didn't see my old man from about
Speaker 1: the age of thirteen until draft day. He then rocked
Speaker 1: up unannounced on draft day, so I had zero contact.
Speaker 1: So that's another thing that was I dealt with it
Speaker 1: in the best way I could, which was pretend that
Speaker 1: everything was fine on draft day. But that's a big
Speaker 1: moment in my life that was sort of overshadowed by
Speaker 1: him being there and somehow making about himself. So in
Speaker 1: that sense, childhood was at times difficult. But throughout all
Speaker 1: of that, I had my Mum who loved me unconditionally
Speaker 1: and just did everything for me. I had my sister
Speaker 1: as well my mates, but I also had footy, and
Speaker 1: footy was the one thing that no matter what was
Speaker 1: happening inside the house, I could go out and keep
Speaker 1: the foot in the paddock. The weekend had come, I'd
Speaker 1: look forward to go to school play footy. So footy
Speaker 1: was definitely the one thing that I used as almost
Speaker 1: a coping mechanism and just put all my efforts into
Speaker 1: being the best I could at that for not only myself,
Speaker 1: but there's almost a way out for Mum and a
Speaker 1: better laugh for all of us, a safe space, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. And I genuinely love footy, so I'm sure
Speaker 1: we'll get to it at the end. But for that
Speaker 1: to almost go full circle at some point is another
Speaker 1: thing that to conceptualize is really weird.
Speaker 2: When you say abusive, what's your earliest memory of that,
Speaker 2: I just like my sister.
Speaker 1: It was Mum, my sister, me and Dad and just
Speaker 1: him just being drunk, carrying on me, get in the way,
Speaker 1: getting shoved out of the way, things like that that
Speaker 1: being a dad now would never do to a child.
Speaker 1: So but again that's you know, I know it's not right,
Speaker 1: but in the day of growing up, I'm sure you know,
Speaker 1: we all have parents who talk about getting a clip
Speaker 1: over the years or a smack on the barm, so
Speaker 1: you know, it was obviously more than that, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's what it was.
Speaker 2: Was he with your mum as well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, domestic violence in our house was something
Speaker 1: that again wasn't normal, but there was definitely there and
Speaker 1: not until growing up that you realize that that isn't
Speaker 1: how most families interact.
Speaker 2: What are your memories of that and how did you
Speaker 2: cope as a kid.
Speaker 1: See again, most of the memories are somewhat not suppressed,
Speaker 1: but you can sort of, you know, you think of
Speaker 1: good memories and everything comes back shiny and really vivid.
Speaker 1: These things are obviously a bit darker. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it just at times I just remember that
Speaker 1: wanting to get out of the house and I would
Speaker 1: do that, or you know, the odd time where I'd
Speaker 1: feel the need to stick up for mum, you know,
Speaker 1: as a small child, and then get your own come
Speaker 1: uppance for that. It's yeah, used to wondering what's this
Speaker 1: all about? I guess, you know, you always wanted dad
Speaker 1: who's your hero, and you know, I guess I didn't
Speaker 1: get that so that sense. But you know, as I said,
Speaker 1: I'm thankful that I've got a mum who was not
Speaker 1: only my heroes my mum, but she almosto took the
Speaker 1: role as dad as well. So I didn't really think
Speaker 1: that I was taking on a fatherly role or anything
Speaker 1: like that. I was just doing what I had to
Speaker 1: do to you know what I thought, I guess was
Speaker 1: right at the time, and trying to help mum out.
Speaker 2: Do you remember the last time you saw your dad?
Speaker 1: No, not vividly. So he passed away when I was
Speaker 1: about twenty. I think I didn't go to the funeral.
Speaker 1: Things like that. I and I don't regret that decision.
Speaker 1: It's just something that I literally grew up thinking I
Speaker 1: didn't have a father, and if that's what a father is,
Speaker 1: well I didn't want one.
Speaker 2: When he walked Do you remember when he walked out?
Speaker 1: And again, not really it was and the memories I
Speaker 1: do have of that, like not vivid, but almost a
Speaker 1: sense of relief, and it's, you know, the problem's gone
Speaker 1: away to some extent when.
Speaker 2: You think about it. Now looking back that did you
Speaker 2: realize how big a thing it was at the time,
Speaker 2: Because I sit here listening to you, I can't imagine
Speaker 2: going through that experience.
Speaker 1: Again, not really at the time. It's sort of that's
Speaker 1: what it was. So we made the best of it.
Speaker 1: You know, as I keep referencing to Mum, the way
Speaker 1: she almost was able to hide us from us, So
Speaker 1: what we saw was probably not the extent of what
Speaker 1: was actually happening. So for her to do such a
Speaker 1: good job and me still look back on childhood and
Speaker 1: say I had a fantastic time for the most part,
Speaker 1: you know, he's credit to her, because, no doubt, at
Speaker 1: times it would have been scary for her and having
Speaker 1: two kids in the house that you're trying to raise,
Speaker 1: and you know, we all want the best for our
Speaker 1: kids and we want them to have the best time.
Speaker 1: So to still be able to do that in trying
Speaker 1: circumstances is more credit to her than to what was
Speaker 1: actually going on.
Speaker 2: Tell me about your mum.
Speaker 1: Mom's the best I look, you know, every time I
Speaker 1: speak about her, I just think of what she did
Speaker 1: for me and now what I'm doing for Matilda and
Speaker 1: trying to understand how actual hard. It was. She had
Speaker 1: two kids. My sister played elite level netball, so she'd
Speaker 1: be at the Sports Netball center every weekend. I'd be
Speaker 1: at more Well playing footy, and there was never one
Speaker 1: time where Mum wasn't at one of our games. She would.
Speaker 1: She had the little Masda bubble car and that thing
Speaker 1: just punched out kilometers up the freeway and she just
Speaker 1: made it work. We never went without footy boots, we
Speaker 1: never went without being able to go to repsides or anything.
Speaker 1: So and looking back, it was, you know, it would
Speaker 1: have been so tough for her to do that. She
Speaker 1: was pretty much the only income in the house, being
Speaker 1: a teacher, and again we never went without some incredibly
Speaker 1: grateful for what she did for me, but in a sense,
Speaker 1: my footballing career was as much about making her proud
Speaker 1: of me because of what she sacrificed.
Speaker 2: She sounds like a bit of a superhuman.
Speaker 1: It's incredible that she can do what she did what
Speaker 1: she did and now she's able to enjoy footage. She
Speaker 1: still came along every week of my career. I don't
Speaker 1: think she missed a game. She even traveled into state
Speaker 1: towards the end. So she's an amazing person, someone I'm
Speaker 1: thoroughly thankful and grateful that became my mum and was
Speaker 1: able to steer me through. And now I guess we
Speaker 1: can enjoy life.
Speaker 2: When you speak about draft days and memories of your
Speaker 2: mum as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is, for sure. I think the enjoyment she
Speaker 1: had and the pride that I could see in her
Speaker 1: face when I got read out to pick two, but
Speaker 1: again to have that overshadowed by the old man rocking up,
Speaker 1: was it sort of tarnished the day and I knew
Speaker 1: that she would have been worried about what the old
Speaker 1: man was doing there and how that was going to
Speaker 1: play out. Maum only would have wanted the best for me,
Speaker 1: and then to be drafted in front of every football
Speaker 1: club and then have a dad that you haven't seen
Speaker 1: for ten years rocker. It's just a bizarre thing. So luckily,
Speaker 1: I think the footy clubs were all aware of it,
Speaker 1: whether I'd told him throughout the draft process and interviews
Speaker 1: or Mum had told them, But for them, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think she would have just been a nervous wreck saying,
Speaker 1: you know what's going to happen and hopefully this just
Speaker 1: goes away. Because she knew that I would have been
Speaker 1: hating what was happening as well.
Speaker 2: Did you end up physically seeing him or talking to him?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was jumping in photos and whatnot. It is like,
Speaker 1: this is my son? How good is this? It's just
Speaker 1: the most bizarre concept.
Speaker 2: Do you know why? What do you think he's motivational?
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. To be honest, I don't know. To
Speaker 1: be honest, I don't really care. I was able to
Speaker 1: make sure that nothing came of it in terms of
Speaker 1: no photo's got out. There was no mention of him
Speaker 1: being there. It was all about me, mum and my sister. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I I don't know whether he finally thought, you know,
Speaker 1: which's well done, but I think it was probably more
Speaker 1: an angle that jump on the coattails sort of set up.
Speaker 2: Did you see him again after that? Was there any
Speaker 2: more contact?
Speaker 1: I think he crashed a book launch that we did
Speaker 1: at Collingwood once, But apart from yeah, like I just
Speaker 1: if I saw him rock up, I'd get super anxious
Speaker 1: and just wanted to go away.
Speaker 2: How does something like that impact on a.
Speaker 1: Person, Well, it probably compounded all my troubles later in life.
Speaker 1: To be completely honest with you, all the stuff that
Speaker 1: eventually came up, you know, after injury and form and
Speaker 1: changing clubs. Probably wasn't even so much to do with that.
Speaker 1: It was more dealing with these things from childhood. So
Speaker 1: you know, the anxiety of not knowing about things or
Speaker 1: if people were being unpredictable. That sort of really triggered
Speaker 1: me from my childhood. And at the time I didn't
Speaker 1: know that. I just thought I was getting super anxious
Speaker 1: for reasons unbeknown to.
Speaker 2: Myself, because he was an alcoholic and would be.
Speaker 1: Just someone but you didn't know. You'd come home to
Speaker 1: you know, you'd had a great day and you'd come
Speaker 1: home and almost be like, what's going on today? Or
Speaker 1: you know, what's going on the next ten minutes?
Speaker 2: So were there of a good days?
Speaker 1: Again, I can't really remember them. I'm sure we would
Speaker 1: have had some fun along the way, but as I said,
Speaker 1: it's unpredictable, so even if it is good, you're sort
Speaker 1: of sitting there with baited breath going when's it going
Speaker 1: to turn to shit? Which is not a great way
Speaker 1: to live. And as I said, that sort of was
Speaker 1: something later in my life had started triggering all these
Speaker 1: anxiety issues.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so you get drafted, you play at the
Speaker 2: biggest club, you're one of the biggest stars. The bleached hair,
Speaker 2: all of that sort of thing. Did the anxiety surface
Speaker 2: in that time or was it all pretty smooth sailing
Speaker 2: at that point?
Speaker 1: So footy at that point was all happy days. It
Speaker 1: was you know, Sunchow's lollipops and rainbows. It was as
Speaker 1: you said, I was drafted, picked two, like that was
Speaker 1: the childhood dream. I got to play round one again,
Speaker 1: childhood dream. Played Anzac Day four rounds in in front
Speaker 1: of ninety thousand, took a hangar, pretty much hit the
Speaker 1: match winner, and you know, fast forward five years we'd
Speaker 1: won a premiership. It was just a constant onwards and
Speaker 1: upwards and even the way you know from under fourteens, fifteen, sixteen, seventeens, eighteens,
Speaker 1: there was sort of the same spiral. I put all
Speaker 1: my effort into footy and everything sort of went perfect.
Speaker 1: My under eighteen year of Gibbe Power made the VIC team,
Speaker 1: made all astray and we won the Grand Final. I
Speaker 1: got best on like it was. You talk about people
Speaker 1: having great years in like VC and whatnot, getting ninety
Speaker 1: nine point nine. That was literally my footy was my
Speaker 1: highlight of schooling.
Speaker 2: And that's so you're saying you didn't get ninety nine
Speaker 2: point nine days.
Speaker 1: From memory, I got thirty three point six. So to
Speaker 1: anyone listening who's an academic, I'm sorry, but my footballing
Speaker 1: was the ninety nine point nine perfect score. So that
Speaker 1: was that. So everything was like and again I didn't
Speaker 1: Football was the one thing that I kept going back
Speaker 1: to and it kept providing and out for any troubles
Speaker 1: that I had in my life. So it wasn't really
Speaker 1: until I got injured and the football was not there
Speaker 1: or it was taken away, and then coming back to
Speaker 1: football then became scrutiny and pressure and the scrutiny I
Speaker 1: speak I've been. That was the time when Twitter was starting,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't just media into me. It was anyone
Speaker 1: who could get their claws in. So that was when
Speaker 1: football became the one thing I'd loved was almost taken
Speaker 1: away and I had no other way of dealing with things.
Speaker 2: And when you say get your claws in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I don't want to sort of sit here
Speaker 1: and say poor old me. But at the time any
Speaker 1: there was yeah, I don't reckon. I could go a
Speaker 1: day without an article being written on me in a
Speaker 1: paper or someone reporting a story, and that even you know,
Speaker 1: that continued from once I left Colin Wood, probably more
Speaker 1: so once I left, but then, you know, every year
Speaker 1: it seemed like as soon as before round one start,
Speaker 1: there was one journal in particular who would write an
Speaker 1: article and just like, no matter how good things were going,
Speaker 1: and then everyone would just jump on that. And you know,
Speaker 1: it seemed like I just couldn't escape and that was
Speaker 1: just bearing.
Speaker 2: Me side, and that's bearing you inside. That's strong, that's strong.
Speaker 1: It was because you know, you do a pre season
Speaker 1: of like six months, you give your all. You're like,
Speaker 1: this is it, this is going to be my year.
Speaker 1: And one article, one blog punching out, you know, an
Speaker 1: opinion piece purely for clickbait and traction. You know, he's
Speaker 1: just like, well here it goes again, sort of set up.
Speaker 2: And what about social media?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that was another one. That was a forum
Speaker 1: that you don't learn about or we weren't versed in really,
Speaker 1: and so then to have people, you know, a pretty
Speaker 1: simple bloke, it's I call it as I see it.
Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't say to someone a line something
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say to their face, so to then have
Speaker 1: people just slamming me and tell me, you know you
Speaker 1: pretty much, you're essentially you're a ship football, you're a
Speaker 1: ship person. It's hard not to try and figure out, like, well,
Speaker 1: why are they saying that? You know? And it sounds stupid,
Speaker 1: and but you know when it's just coming and coming
Speaker 1: and coming. And at that point I was reading it,
Speaker 1: which is probably the dumbest thing. You sit there and
Speaker 1: go what is this all about? Why am I doing this?
Speaker 1: If this is what it's come to? Why even bother?
Speaker 2: Does it get to a point as well where it's
Speaker 2: one of those things that even if you don't believe
Speaker 2: what people were saying, if they say it too often enough,
Speaker 2: you start believing it's true or taking it on board.
Speaker 1: I think so yeah, to some extent, you just it
Speaker 1: was just there constantly like and no matter what I'd like,
Speaker 1: I just couldn't seem to break it hard work, and
Speaker 1: as I said, footy was always something that was able
Speaker 1: to no matter what was going on, I could break it.
Speaker 1: The harder I worked, I seem to get injured, I
Speaker 1: couldn't get back and play footy, or if I did
Speaker 1: get back and play, I was underdone. And then wouldn't
Speaker 1: perform and then they'd keep another load of shit on me.
Speaker 1: So for that to get to the levels that it did,
Speaker 1: you know, I genuinely just I didn't want to go outside.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to pick up my phone. I was
Speaker 1: just a I was a genuine mess.
Speaker 2: So you just completely bunking down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hated it, like even the start of when
Speaker 1: I first got drafted to Hollingwood and people recognizing me
Speaker 1: in the street like that took so much getting used
Speaker 1: to like it. And there was the points where I
Speaker 1: hated that, like I didn't want to go out. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to go to restaurants. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: leave the house because I just I don't know, I
Speaker 1: just got really anxious about people coming up, and which
Speaker 1: is weird. But overcame that and then.
Speaker 2: Did even talk at you. When you refer to it,
Speaker 2: now you look anxious that you start feeling.
Speaker 1: I feel, you know, it almost jolts memories of you know,
Speaker 1: the feelings that are attached with the story and to
Speaker 1: have to be all you wanted was to play AFL
Speaker 1: footy and then to get there and do it. You know,
Speaker 1: you dream of kicking goals and people knowing you, I guess.
Speaker 1: And then for that to live the dream and then
Speaker 1: almost not appreciate it or really dislike what it actually
Speaker 1: is was such a weird thing to conceptualize because that's
Speaker 1: all I dreamt of. And again this was another lot
Speaker 1: of feelings that I had when you know, changing clubs
Speaker 1: and when I was absolutely copying it. Footy was always
Speaker 1: meant to be the one thing that was rate and enjoyable,
Speaker 1: and it was probably became the biggest bearer of shit
Speaker 1: in my life.
Speaker 2: So you went from Collingwood to Carlton, so the two
Speaker 2: pretty much two of the biggest clubs in the land.
Speaker 2: Not many people do that, certainly on high profile contracts
Speaker 2: like you. And it was a big contract. And if
Speaker 2: I remember it correctly, you were injured at the time,
Speaker 2: had the ankle, wasn't it, which was taking some time
Speaker 2: to get over. How much added pressure was there by
Speaker 2: the size of the contract and the size of the move.
Speaker 1: See, to me, I probably didn't give it enough not respect,
Speaker 1: because I like, just in terms of how big a
Speaker 1: deal it was in like, how many people actually gave
Speaker 1: a shit from the outside world. I was like, no,
Speaker 1: everyone will understand, you know, this is how it was.
Speaker 1: I'd given my all for that footy club. Towards the
Speaker 1: end it wasn't working out. Everyone could see that, you know,
Speaker 1: let's go for a fresh start. Well, you know, I
Speaker 1: couldn't have been all wrong. Everyone was just like you're
Speaker 1: a sell out, this, that and the other, and behind
Speaker 1: the scenes there was a lot more going on that
Speaker 1: you know, I still won't speak about to this day.
Speaker 1: But to then again almost fall on my sword and
Speaker 1: then cop it from everyone get to the blues underdone,
Speaker 1: but still expectation that if you can play, you should,
Speaker 1: knowing that I wasn't it at one hundred percent or
Speaker 1: even close to it, And then that sort of made
Speaker 1: things worse again. So you know, in hindsight, I would
Speaker 1: have taken a bit longer to get myself out on
Speaker 1: the park. But I could play, just not at the
Speaker 1: level one I knew I could or was expected to.
Speaker 1: And that again just meant that everything and everyone could
Speaker 1: then have an opinion and throw some more crap.
Speaker 2: At me, because I imagine in that sense most of
Speaker 2: it is external. But also you start there, you know,
Speaker 2: questioning your own decision making and all that sort of
Speaker 2: stuff as well, were you're starting to also put pressure
Speaker 2: on yourself at that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just everything you know, I want to
Speaker 1: I always thought that I could work. The harder I worked,
Speaker 1: I could get myself through it. And then that sort
Speaker 1: of wasn't happening. So I was like, that was the
Speaker 1: only way of dealing with things. And when that wasn't working,
Speaker 1: I was, I will, how do I fix this? And
Speaker 1: I had no answers, And at that point I wasn't
Speaker 1: willing or able to almost admit defeat. I'd sort of
Speaker 1: put up the barriers and arm right, you know, stuff them,
Speaker 1: I'll stick it up and I'll be able to show them.
Speaker 1: And I guess, deep down, I truly believe that was it.
Speaker 1: I sort of thought that, you know, one good game
Speaker 1: would lead to two good games, three good games. It
Speaker 1: seemed that I'd play one good game and then it'd
Speaker 1: go away, and then if the next week was bad,
Speaker 1: someone would fire up the chat again and then bang,
Speaker 1: it was just on. So it was. It was just
Speaker 1: a big shit show really that I couldn't escape.
Speaker 2: So how did you cope with it or how did
Speaker 2: you handle that at the time?
Speaker 1: Well, at the time I handled it horrifically. I pretended
Speaker 1: that everything was fine, which it wasn't. And that was exhausting,
Speaker 1: that process of going into footy, and at that time
Speaker 1: there was cameras nearly every day just waiting to speak
Speaker 1: to me and get a clip like it must have been.
Speaker 1: You know, I felt as bad for my teammates, like
Speaker 1: there were so many good things, players playing good footy
Speaker 1: and the only thing that seemed to be cared about
Speaker 1: was me and my ankle or why couldn't get a kick?
Speaker 1: So there was that, and then just not dealing with
Speaker 1: it was you know, go in, pretend everything's fine, come
Speaker 1: home and sleep, drive to training, ball my eyes out
Speaker 1: and get out, like put yourself together, go in there,
Speaker 1: pretend everything's fine again, joke, laugh, train the best you could,
Speaker 1: and then come home and repeat. It's just an exhausting process.
Speaker 2: So you just sit and cry in your car and
Speaker 2: the way to training, just overwhelmed by it all.
Speaker 1: Well, I just knew what was coming, So it's you know,
Speaker 1: you're almost driving to you almost blame yourself. It's like,
Speaker 1: well why am I driving to go face it again.
Speaker 2: It's really tough to hear you talk about it because
Speaker 2: you are such a you're an extrovert of a personality.
Speaker 2: You love having a laugh, you love having a joke.
Speaker 2: How hard was that aspect of it to be that
Speaker 2: type of personality when inside you felt the opposite.
Speaker 1: That was probably the toughest bit. And to try and
Speaker 1: figure that out myself, you know, as I said, I
Speaker 1: am as people probably figure out now, there is more
Speaker 1: to me, a bit more of a deep thinker than
Speaker 1: the jovial idiot that comes out most times I'm in
Speaker 1: front of a camera or they see me on tally
Speaker 1: because that's you know, it's either the footy playing of
Speaker 1: the footy, or it was the little clips on the
Speaker 1: media from whatnot. But to want to be the happy person,
Speaker 1: and you know, as I said, there was so much
Speaker 1: good going on. You know, I was essentially living out
Speaker 1: my dream, and for whatever reason, I'd drive to training
Speaker 1: and hate every minute of it, and then come home
Speaker 1: and hate every minute of that because there'd be news stories,
Speaker 1: or to try figure that out was that was doing
Speaker 1: my head in as much as everything else, because I knew,
Speaker 1: I guess deep down that something wasn't right and the
Speaker 1: way I was feeling was more than just being sad
Speaker 1: or feeling a bit sorry for myself or you've had
Speaker 1: a cup tough couple of weeks or you know, there's
Speaker 1: a bad article. Everyone goes through that, Everyone cops the
Speaker 1: shit at some time, and for the most part of
Speaker 1: my career I was able to deal with that and going,
Speaker 1: you know what, this is just normal. But it got
Speaker 1: to the point where I was like, this cycle has
Speaker 1: to end of one me feeling bad for myself. You know,
Speaker 1: I just yeah, the life I was living was you know,
Speaker 1: you think of an AFL footballers, all glitz and glamour.
Speaker 1: I'd go to training, hate it. I'd play, I'd hate it.
Speaker 1: I'd come home and hate it. It's like, how are
Speaker 1: you meant to exist when that's all that's happening.
Speaker 2: You're listening to. Ordinarily speaking with Dale Thomas, when was
Speaker 2: it at its worst?
Speaker 1: Probably in the off seasons when the food you got
Speaker 1: taken away and you could you know, you almost had
Speaker 1: a carte blunche of and drink piece until you couldn't
Speaker 1: stand up anymore. Because one it was almost not acceptable.
Speaker 1: But you know, for the mad Monday week you get
Speaker 1: to have a good time and I could just anything
Speaker 1: that it was built up. I could almost go and
Speaker 1: try and suppress it through drinking and having a good
Speaker 1: time and a party. And don't get me wrong, I
Speaker 1: still like a good time and a party, but when
Speaker 1: it's sort of destructive behavior and drinking for a purpose
Speaker 1: of just to almost forget, that's when, you know, I
Speaker 1: realized and yeah, it was like, well, this again isn't
Speaker 1: something that I want to do. And to be almost
Speaker 1: heading down the path of the old man and sort
Speaker 1: of being able to think about that at times, go
Speaker 1: Gee's you know, this is a slippery slot. Again. That
Speaker 1: was something that I'd start beating myself up over. And
Speaker 1: it's yeah, I've used the word shit shot a few times,
Speaker 1: but my life was a genuine shit scholl at times.
Speaker 2: When was that when.
Speaker 1: A few years in a cart I reckon it was
Speaker 1: so and.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, only I don't know the exact dates, but towards
Speaker 1: the end of that off season, I then it was
Speaker 1: almost forced to go and see someone, which was the
Speaker 1: best thing ever. Who forced you Well, at the time,
Speaker 1: I mentioned it to the club and then lil and
Speaker 1: Craig Miller, liul I Sullivan Craig Miller were like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, let's facilitate something to come along, and they
Speaker 1: literally came along with me, walked me and Mail two
Speaker 1: of course mel Oberhoffer, my manager. They all came along
Speaker 1: with me. They sat in the waiting room while I
Speaker 1: went and cried my eyes out in front of a
Speaker 1: sixty year old lady who turned out to be And
Speaker 1: again life works in funny ways. Going to see this person.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm allowed to say a name,
Speaker 1: but it was something that genuinely changed the course of
Speaker 1: my life and how I see it playing out from here.
Speaker 2: When you went into see the club, what did you say.
Speaker 1: To them, Well, this was another thing you talk about
Speaker 1: anxiety around and what you're hiding from your teammates, your family.
Speaker 1: To go and confront your coach when at this point
Speaker 1: I was pretty much playing for my career as well.
Speaker 1: It's the start of pre season and to pretty much
Speaker 1: front up and say, mate, I'm not in any shape
Speaker 1: to participate in football or what you want. And to
Speaker 1: almost get to the point of going, well, you know,
Speaker 1: if you do sack me, I don't really care because
Speaker 1: I need help. That's you know. To get to that
Speaker 1: point was a big deal. So to have that conversation
Speaker 1: was scary. But again, the way you think it plays
Speaker 1: out to how it actually does was completely different. You know,
Speaker 1: I thought it would be what have you done? You're
Speaker 1: an idiot? But everyone was good enough to wrap their
Speaker 1: arms around me.
Speaker 2: Was there something that prompted that going and asking because
Speaker 2: you're saying you're sort of drinking continuously in an off
Speaker 2: season and feeling really bad. Was there one moment that
Speaker 2: you went, I can't do this any longer?
Speaker 1: Well, there was probably a few along the way. I think,
Speaker 1: just understanding that I couldn't go on like pretending that
Speaker 1: everything was fine because I knew that it wasn't. So
Speaker 1: I just had to I guess, man up and say,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not right. The way I'm thinking, the
Speaker 1: way I'm feeling this isn't normal.
Speaker 2: And being a dad as well, was that a big
Speaker 2: driver in it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? For sure, you know, but I was. I still
Speaker 1: think at that time I was being an okay dad,
Speaker 1: So you know, my energies were a good dad even
Speaker 1: you know, my energy is to be around Matilda and
Speaker 1: to what that looked like. I was always so conscious
Speaker 1: of not being that bad dad, but then to be
Speaker 1: almost living a lie to her, to the footy club,
Speaker 1: to my mates. Again, it just you do you end
Speaker 1: up doing your own head in so I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I can't continue this way.
Speaker 2: So you felt like you were living two lives in
Speaker 2: a way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well there was the big fraud and the big
Speaker 1: front of you know, this is what people think you are.
Speaker 1: And you know, if anyone knew of how bad I
Speaker 1: was thinking, they would have been like, well, why wouldn't
Speaker 1: you say anything? And looking back now, obviously that's easy
Speaker 1: to say, but at the time you're like, jeez, this
Speaker 1: is who they think I am. So I've just got
Speaker 1: to keep living it.
Speaker 2: Had you ever saw any because there's club psychologists around
Speaker 2: most sporting organizations these days. Had you ever gone and
Speaker 2: seen one?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I went to I had to chat with
Speaker 1: one at the footy club, and I guess I didn't
Speaker 1: really get the answers I was looking for, or I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say the support, but just you know what I
Speaker 1: thought of was saying and reached out to and how
Speaker 1: bad I knew it was. Maybe I didn't portray that
Speaker 1: well enough and it was sort of somewhat dismissed. I
Speaker 1: went and saw another counselor through the PA at one point,
Speaker 1: and again it was you know, I almost got told
Speaker 1: what I wanted to hear in terms of you'll be right,
Speaker 1: it's not the end of the world, YadA YadA. Again,
Speaker 1: maybe I didn't convey how bad it was, so it
Speaker 1: didn't really help, and I was When that happens, you
Speaker 1: sort of go, well, is this the answer. It's a
Speaker 1: big deal to reach out and put your hand up,
Speaker 1: so I'm struggling and that to then sort of feel like,
Speaker 1: well that didn't work. You're almost back to square one.
Speaker 2: So you eventually did find somebody that helped you. What
Speaker 2: was it that helped you? Do? You think.
Speaker 1: Just the understanding that one there's a way out of it,
Speaker 1: like you don't have to keep living like this. There's
Speaker 1: there's reasons that you're feeling like this, you know, within
Speaker 1: me telling my story and at that point of going
Speaker 1: and opening up and talking about my old man. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't even know if my mum. I would have
Speaker 1: spoken to mum about it. I certainly wouldn't have spoken
Speaker 1: to my best mates and you know, anyone else about it.
Speaker 1: So there would have been maybe one or two people
Speaker 1: maybe that knew, and that's only because they lived it,
Speaker 1: like my mum and my sister. And again we never
Speaker 1: discussed it. It was just one of those things that
Speaker 1: sort of I never bought up.
Speaker 2: Have you discussed it with your mom now?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we had a really good chat. You know.
Speaker 1: In terms of that, it was almost like me saying, please,
Speaker 1: don't ever blame yourself for you know, it could have
Speaker 1: been a lot worse if it wasn't if you went there.
Speaker 1: So to have someone and someone you're speaking to you
Speaker 1: feel like not only do they understand it, they're providing
Speaker 1: solutions and giving you hope that there's a better way
Speaker 1: to be living when that's all you need was something
Speaker 1: that I really related.
Speaker 2: To a bit of validation as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just that you're not the person that you've
Speaker 1: convinced yourself you are. You know, there's so many even
Speaker 1: when reaching out to people and explaining you know, when
Speaker 1: I started seeing the cancer and having to put my
Speaker 1: hand up saying, look, I'm really struggling. This is what's happening.
Speaker 1: You know, if you could just keep an eye out
Speaker 1: for me or you know, you know, this is what
Speaker 1: it is to have people then be like, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about? You know, we love hanging out with you.
Speaker 1: You're a rippen person, you know, Stop being yourself up
Speaker 1: or you know, we're here to help. To know that
Speaker 1: you've got a support network and people that genuinely care
Speaker 1: was as much validation, I guess as I needed until
Speaker 1: I could see that, you know, I wasn't the shitkicker
Speaker 1: that everyone was right about.
Speaker 2: As as I said, lots of people, you know, elite
Speaker 2: athletes have access to this, Lots of people in the
Speaker 2: real world don't. Necessarily they have to go out and
Speaker 2: seek it themselves. For those people, did it get worse
Speaker 2: for you before it got better after you, because a
Speaker 2: lot of people say when they go on see a psychologist,
Speaker 2: it actually it's almost worse at the start because you're
Speaker 2: dealing with stuff that you've just suppressed for so long.
Speaker 1: For sure, the first few sessions, and I was sort
Speaker 1: of going twice a week and trying to smash it
Speaker 1: because again I was doing pre season in between it,
Speaker 1: so I didn't really it wasn't like I could just
Speaker 1: cruise through it and solve the problem as they came.
Speaker 1: So the first couple of sessions, I would come home
Speaker 1: and be absolutely exhausted, like the mental drain, talking about
Speaker 1: things that I hadn't spoken to with anyone for thirty years.
Speaker 1: And then bringing them up, and then not only bring
Speaker 1: them up, but also like almost delving into the emotion
Speaker 1: the images that are attached with that. It was such
Speaker 1: a confronting experience, but you know, the hour or two
Speaker 1: posts that, the relief that then you failed off your
Speaker 1: shoulders was amazing, and it was almost like, I want
Speaker 1: to go back and you know, let's do some more.
Speaker 1: Let's try and fix some more of this shit that
Speaker 1: I've been keeping in.
Speaker 2: So you're trying to save your career at the same time.
Speaker 1: Because this is going on, yeah, just keeping it nice
Speaker 1: and simple. I was.
Speaker 2: Because you end up playing some pretty decentty. So you've
Speaker 2: had a couple of years where you're overcoming injury, you're
Speaker 2: in and out of the twos.
Speaker 1: I was in there once. It took twice after drinking.
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm not going to I'm not going
Speaker 2: to say mullets. And then and then you get to
Speaker 2: a point where you you decide there's a clause in
Speaker 2: your contract which basically says you've played enough footy that
Speaker 2: we're going to keep paying your pretty good money to
Speaker 2: keep going. You trigger that clause, you decide that you
Speaker 2: didn't want to basically enact that at the club that
Speaker 2: you were going to take a cut. Can you tell
Speaker 2: us a bit more about that decision, because it sounds
Speaker 2: to me like you were working a lot behind the
Speaker 2: scenes on who you are and the person that you
Speaker 2: wanted to be as well. Was that part of that
Speaker 2: decision making process?
Speaker 1: Deep down? I just think that decision was for me.
Speaker 1: Everyone's like, oh, it must have been so hard. It
Speaker 1: was easy. I wasn't. I never went across for the money.
Speaker 1: You know, you go across before opportunity. You get paid
Speaker 1: what you're paid because you're a good player. You know.
Speaker 1: It's not as if I wrote the contract and said
Speaker 1: this is what I want. There's people in place, which
Speaker 1: is amazing in the AFI world that people forget that.
Speaker 1: You know. It wasn't like me and Mick came up
Speaker 1: with a price and we were the only two to
Speaker 1: sign off on it. You know, it touches many hands
Speaker 1: before you get signed off on it. So when you
Speaker 1: sign a big contract, you're getting paid what people think
Speaker 1: you deserve to then have a clause that I reach
Speaker 1: and literally limp to to think. You know, I knew
Speaker 1: deep down I wasn't worth the money they were going
Speaker 1: to have to pay me. We were losing. There was
Speaker 1: stupid politics going on around sort of that clause and
Speaker 1: if I could get to it and swinging through the
Speaker 1: twos for a week to maybe not get to it.
Speaker 1: So I was like, you know, I said to Paul manager,
Speaker 1: I was like, if this is what it is, like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this. I'll back myself in
Speaker 1: to play good enough footy, you know, and if they
Speaker 1: want me at the end of the year, they want me,
Speaker 1: and I'll play for what I deserve and what I'm worth.
Speaker 1: We need if I give them them being the footy club,
Speaker 1: you know, if that money's freed up, we may be
Speaker 1: able to get another player, We may be able to
Speaker 1: keep some players. Because I didn't play for myself. I
Speaker 1: played my whole career from wanting to be successful and
Speaker 1: to win, so to lose every week to me was
Speaker 1: the worst thing in the world. Like if I could do,
Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form, be a part of
Speaker 1: changing that, I would. So it was just an easy decision.
Speaker 1: It was the right thing to do. I wasn't worth
Speaker 1: what the contract said. We signed it at a time
Speaker 1: where I was and circumstances had changed, so why not
Speaker 1: change that too. What was the difference cash wise, Oh please,
Speaker 1: I was playing for minimum chips and a can of
Speaker 1: coke verse well, and now on that point the total
Speaker 1: player payments had increased too, so that was part of
Speaker 1: the clause. So it's a pretty hefty figure. I don't
Speaker 1: think we'd be sitting on a couch here. We won't
Speaker 1: be on a yacht somewhere discussing this now. It wasn't
Speaker 1: that big. But in terms of as I said, I
Speaker 1: didn't come. I didn't play for money, you know, as
Speaker 1: much as that is part of it, and at times
Speaker 1: just backed into a corner to almost feel like you
Speaker 1: have to and you know there's a negotiation all the
Speaker 1: byproducts of that. That was just the right decision and
Speaker 1: one that sat more comfortably with me making than if
Speaker 1: I had been like, nah, i've hit the trigger. You know,
Speaker 1: that just would have been a disaster.
Speaker 2: Last year, you looked back to really loving footy, and
Speaker 2: I remember interviewing you a couple of times throughout at Carlton.
Speaker 2: You were playing pretty good footy and then they decided
Speaker 2: not to offer you another contract. You handled that publicly,
Speaker 2: I thought, really really well. So when I lost my job,
Speaker 2: I looked at you, thinking the way that you handled
Speaker 2: that was pretty inspiring and it can be challenging behind
Speaker 2: the scenes. How challenging was that decision to hear?
Speaker 1: Oh I got told at the day of a funeral
Speaker 1: and believe it or not, which obviously isn't great, But
Speaker 1: that was because I, you know, they had a list
Speaker 1: management meeting and I said, well, as soon as you know,
Speaker 1: let me know. To be honest, it was hard to
Speaker 1: hear knowing that, and the emotions I guess came a
Speaker 1: few weeks after, when I knew I was getting close
Speaker 1: to playing my last game and not being able to
Speaker 1: ever run out in front of the crowds and whatnot.
Speaker 1: Being told the decision itself sat relatively well with me.
Speaker 1: I think I knew I'd given my all in terms
Speaker 1: of mental capacity over the however many years I was
Speaker 1: six years I was a Carlton. To then get back
Speaker 1: and play the footy I was playing, you know, and
Speaker 1: actually providing something on the field was again something that
Speaker 1: all I wanted to do. I felt like I was
Speaker 1: earning the respect of the Carlton faithful. I was trying
Speaker 1: my guts out, like whether we were ten goals down
Speaker 1: the game was closed, I was every ball. You know,
Speaker 1: I was playing like it was my last, and there
Speaker 1: was times in the lead up the year or two
Speaker 1: before where I thought it may have been my last.
Speaker 1: So to get to a point where it's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, every year was almost a bonus year, so
Speaker 1: you may as well enjoy it rather than worrying, oh jeez,
Speaker 1: you know I've got a play. Well, I sort of
Speaker 1: went the opposite way and said, well, you know, if
Speaker 1: this is the end, let's enjoy it. Let's have as
Speaker 1: much fun as we can. Let's embrace every opportunity that
Speaker 1: comes with it, Embrace every moment. Because I was always
Speaker 1: aware that at some point my football career would end.
Speaker 1: And yeah, to be playing good footy, I guess almost
Speaker 1: sits better with me because now the legend grows.
Speaker 2: Are you content with your footy career?
Speaker 1: I am. Yeah. I wouldn't change anything throughout my whole life.
Speaker 1: You know, we've spoken about some pretty darkish and grim
Speaker 1: subjects and topics, but I wouldn't change a thing. You know,
Speaker 1: everything I believe happens for a reason and shapes you
Speaker 1: or changes you as a person and makes you who
Speaker 1: you are. That's, you know, a slightly more complex individual
Speaker 1: than most people would have thought. But everything that I've
Speaker 1: learned along the way will help me from this point on.
Speaker 1: You know, footy is a small part of your life.
Speaker 1: It's a fourteen year blog if you do it well,
Speaker 1: which I was able to. There's so much more to
Speaker 1: life and football. I think I've always you know, that's
Speaker 1: the one great thing about the rat Pack was that
Speaker 1: they always and not in terms of just partying, but
Speaker 1: family friends. You know, your friends and your family will
Speaker 1: always be their Football is a part of your life,
Speaker 1: not the entirety of it, and that's not what defines you.
Speaker 1: So to finally get to a point where when I
Speaker 1: understood that, and then to get to the end and
Speaker 1: go okay, you know amazing. You tell the eight en
Speaker 1: year old kid from drawing that you can have played
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty eight games, win a flag, you know,
Speaker 1: be all restrained at one time, being a conversation that
Speaker 1: you could have been the best player in the camp.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't change it. Nothing I look back on with regret.
Speaker 2: How's the transition going into post footy life?
Speaker 1: Madam A bloody what are those celebrity you freaking get
Speaker 1: me out of his reality tvst No to be honest,
Speaker 1: it's been good. I've as I said, you know the
Speaker 1: fact that the decision sat well with me. If it
Speaker 1: hadn't have if I had of and you know, you
Speaker 1: say how I handled it publicly, Yeah, behind closed doors
Speaker 1: at times I was a bit like I could have
Speaker 1: played it's a bit stiff YadA YadA. But I never
Speaker 1: sort of got into the yeah. I never really got
Speaker 1: into the bitterness or feeling sorry for myself. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: well this is what it is. There's no he's sulking.
Speaker 1: And again, maybe you know, four or five years ago
Speaker 1: it would have been a trigger to go out and
Speaker 1: be a lunatic. But to yeah, to know and be
Speaker 1: excited about what's coming now is something that I really
Speaker 1: look forward to a new chapter. Footy was a part
Speaker 1: of my life. It was a big part, but as
Speaker 1: I've just said, there's so much more to living. I'm
Speaker 1: thirty two years old. I'm still pretty young.
Speaker 2: Is it scary at all? Yeah?
Speaker 1: To some extent, because well, when you're playing well, you're
Speaker 1: locking away four year contracts or three year deals, and
Speaker 1: you've got constant security in that. I guess, whereas now
Speaker 1: I'm sort of off to my find my own path again.
Speaker 1: But like I've done with everything, I'll back myself in
Speaker 1: to be whatever I do, to be determined enough to
Speaker 1: be good at it and to make it work. And
Speaker 1: I think the fact that that's my mindset gives me
Speaker 1: great confidence to go out and just be the best
Speaker 1: I can be and hope that again, that it all
Speaker 1: works out for me.
Speaker 2: You touched on it a little bit earlier, but how
Speaker 2: did your relationship with your dad and the kind of
Speaker 2: bloke that he was shape the way that you wanted
Speaker 2: to be as a dad to Tilly?
Speaker 1: Oh well, I'm perfect in a sense. It worked out
Speaker 1: well because I've got the complete blueprint of what not
Speaker 1: to do. So it's just, you know, flip that upside
Speaker 1: down and you've gone from having the world's worst dad,
Speaker 1: so you flip it upside down, you can be the
Speaker 1: world's best dad. So look mantilit to and you know,
Speaker 1: even some of the moments we got to share over
Speaker 1: the past couple of years on the footy field as well,
Speaker 1: and her understanding what that was, Yeah, those things are
Speaker 1: memory she'll have forever her and obviously to be a
Speaker 1: part of that is great. But just little things like
Speaker 1: I don't care if I'm running around in a frozen
Speaker 1: dress on a Saturday afternoon, I'm more than happy to
Speaker 1: do it, you know, to see her having fun. If
Speaker 1: I'm dancing like an idiot, if we're skateboarding downhills, if
Speaker 1: we're chasing ducks at the park. You know, just pretty
Speaker 1: much like what my mom did. Anything to make me
Speaker 1: enjoy what I'm doing whilst trying to instill values in
Speaker 1: a very complex world and navigate all of that is
Speaker 1: you know, I love being a dad, and I think
Speaker 1: that she's become a really nice, respectable and respectful young girl,
Speaker 1: even if she's only four.
Speaker 2: What's your mom's relationship like with.
Speaker 1: The amazing every time, you know, every time anyone speaks
Speaker 1: of mum, because what she's done and what she continues
Speaker 1: to do, like at times, you know, I get Matilda
Speaker 1: every second weekend, and there's times where I have to
Speaker 1: go and commentate footy or I'm not around, and for
Speaker 1: to still be picking up the pieces and been there
Speaker 1: to help me out is amazing. So and Tilly loves
Speaker 1: her mum and my sister. They all moved down to Talkie.
Speaker 1: So my sister's got two kids, one's Olie's till his age,
Speaker 1: and they get along like a house on fire. So
Speaker 1: to have that and for Tilly to have someone you know,
Speaker 1: and to bring that family aspect as well. You know,
Speaker 1: we go down there because till he loves seeing Oli,
Speaker 1: but then I also get to see the family as well.
Speaker 1: It's a really nice dynamic.
Speaker 2: Finally, for people who are listening who maybe relate to
Speaker 2: something of what you're saying, do you think it took
Speaker 2: you to that moment to ask for help or do
Speaker 2: you wish she did it earlier.
Speaker 1: I certainly wish I did it earlier. But you know,
Speaker 1: until you sort of hit the bottom, you don't really
Speaker 1: know how far down you can go. So and so
Speaker 1: to anyone who is listening or does feel like they're
Speaker 1: not in a good spot, I'd certainly encourage them to
Speaker 1: reach out because if I, if I had done that,
Speaker 1: things may I've played out differently. I could have played
Speaker 1: better footy for longer. I could have been happier for
Speaker 1: longer as a person, which at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: that's the main thing, is enjoying life. There's so much
Speaker 1: good happening and so many good things to look forward
Speaker 1: to that to be walking around like a sad sack
Speaker 1: isn't ideal. So if I could have reached out earlier,
Speaker 1: I would have. But again I wouldn't change it because
Speaker 1: where I'm at now to where I was three or
Speaker 1: four years ago is chalk and cheese.
Speaker 2: And will you still continue to get help? Will you
Speaker 2: still monitor that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? For sure? I think it's. As I said, there's
Speaker 1: a lot going on and the world is a rather
Speaker 1: confusing place and life just keeps throwing curveballs and challenges
Speaker 1: that are so to almost want to get better, And
Speaker 1: I almost look at it like a training mechanism. You know.
Speaker 1: If you want to get better at running, you keep running.
Speaker 1: If you want to live a happier, healthier life, keep
Speaker 1: going to it seeks and speak to someone. And for me
Speaker 1: at work, so for everyone that may not be the case,
Speaker 1: but it certainly works for me.
Speaker 2: Daisy. It's really nice to see you happy and healthy.
Speaker 2: All the best in the next adventure of your life,
Speaker 2: and thanks for spending some time with you, no drama's nice,
Speaker 2: Thank you time. Please remember there is help out there,
Speaker 2: places like Beyond Blue and Lifeline. If you enjoyed this
Speaker 2: episode of Ordinarily Speaking, you might want to go back
Speaker 2: and listen to episode one featuring Collingwood's Adam Trelaw. A
Speaker 2: new episode drops on Wednesday, so please hit subscribe and
Speaker 2: follow the podcast on Instagram at ordinarily Underscore speaking. Thanks again, Jesus,
Speaker 2: show
Speaker 1: Me that you want of me though,