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Speaker 1: Now you would have heard.

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Speaker 2: A couple of weeks ago, we actually caught up with

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Speaker 2: the Member for Blaine, Mark Turner, and spoke about the

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Speaker 2: concerns following on from the release of the Police Association survey. Now,

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Speaker 2: he had said to us at the time that he

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Speaker 2: questioned whether there was a need for a full independent inquiry,

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Speaker 2: possibly even a Royal commission into the Northern Territory Police Force. Now,

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Speaker 2: I'm pleased to say that joining me in the studio

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Speaker 2: right now is the Member for Blaine, Mark Turner.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Mark, Good morning, Katie and Mark.

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Speaker 2: I know that this is something that you and I

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Speaker 2: have spoken about, or we've certainly spoken about over the

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Speaker 2: last couple of weeks. I understand. Have you now written

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Speaker 2: to the Prime Minister on this topic.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I wrote to the Prime Minister and the Federal

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Speaker 4: Attorney General tuesday night. Yeah, asking them to have a

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Speaker 4: look at what's happening in the Northern Territory. I can

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Speaker 4: see the intent of the motion that's been put forward

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Speaker 4: by the leader of the Opposition, but it's just not

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Speaker 4: going to scratch the surface you think. I don't know

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Speaker 4: how many of your listeners would have have the time

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Speaker 4: to listen to what was said in Parliament yesterday. But

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Speaker 4: when you're turning around saying we can do this in

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Speaker 4: the lunch break, you just can't. The problems are too

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Speaker 4: deeply ingrained. And if we're going to do this, then

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Speaker 4: we owe it to our members to do it properly.

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Speaker 2: Mark, Why do you think there's this resistance to not

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Speaker 2: have a full inquiry, whether it's a royal commission or

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Speaker 2: whether it is a full independent inquiry.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think there's this resistance.

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Speaker 4: The same reason there's the resistance to have the conversations

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Speaker 4: about feet of alcohol syndrome. It's going to open a

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Speaker 4: Pandora's box of problems that need to be dealt with,

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Speaker 4: and it's going to be difficult. It's going to be painful,

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Speaker 4: and there's going to be a lot of questions that

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Speaker 4: need to be answered. It's going to be a messy process,

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Speaker 4: but it needs to be done.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think it's so important that this actually happens.

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Speaker 4: I think for so many different reasons, and this is

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Speaker 4: why I can't see anything but a royal commission that

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Speaker 4: will do it. You know, my five month old son

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Speaker 4: has been to multiple police funerals. That's tragic. By every

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Speaker 4: measure possible. My constituents are ringing triple zero and nobody's answering.

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Speaker 4: They're having to ring me. That's not happening anywhere else

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Speaker 4: in Australia. There is no a select committee you could

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Speaker 4: form to look at a specific issue.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: You could have a select committee into mental health. You

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Speaker 4: could have a select committee into domestic and family of

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Speaker 4: violence possibly, even though that's a bit of a big one,

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Speaker 4: but when it's systemic across so many different issues, it's

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Speaker 4: bigger than Dondale and we needed a Royal commission into that.

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Speaker 2: Mark. I know that the Police Minister joined us on

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Speaker 2: the show yesterday and she'd revealed that there is going

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Speaker 2: to be or that currently there is a financial review

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Speaker 2: into the Northern Territory Police Force. There's also a structural

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Speaker 2: review which is happening. It was the first that I

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Speaker 2: had heard of it yesterday, and she'd also said that

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Speaker 2: there is work being undertaken when it comes to the

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Speaker 2: mental health of officers. There is more targeted work when

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Speaker 2: it comes to anti social behavior and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: But do you think that all of that is going

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Speaker 1: to go far enough?

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Speaker 4: It's all looking at the symptoms and This is why

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Speaker 4: I'm trying to go backwards and say let's look at

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Speaker 4: the cause. The easiest example I can give you, Katie

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Speaker 4: is the Northern Territory Police doesn't have any electronic rostering system.

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Speaker 4: My kids Sunday School has electronic rostering. We know where

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Speaker 4: our volunteers are. Most of the Northern Territories five hundred

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Speaker 4: and ten million dollar budget is in human resources. Have

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Speaker 4: to know where the people are to know how we

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Speaker 4: can roster them effectively.

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Speaker 2: And do you think, like, is that an issue that

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Speaker 2: we've got right now that we've got staff that are.

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Speaker 1: That are not there or not available?

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Speaker 3: What's going on?

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Speaker 4: It's the same I've you listen to Paul mchughe, you

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Speaker 4: listen to Kate Warden. They're telling the truth. There is

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Speaker 4: more police on the books than ever before, there is

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Speaker 4: a higher police budget than ever before. They're not lying

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Speaker 4: and everybody goes where are they and I certainly know

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Speaker 4: they're not at the Palmerston Police station, but nobody can

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Speaker 4: tell you, which scares me.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is, it's it is a worry

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Speaker 2: like it's I've thought the same. You know, we saw

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Speaker 2: the Productivity Commission come out just a couple of weeks

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Speaker 2: ago and say that we yeah, we have got more

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Speaker 2: money invested into the Northern Territory Police Force than ever before.

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Speaker 2: We have got more officers than you know, than what

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Speaker 2: we have in previous years. But that it's been the

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Speaker 2: big question I think that we're starting to hear more

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Speaker 2: loudly from the community as well, is just that where

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Speaker 2: are they? Because we know that the police that are

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Speaker 2: on the ground are doing a marvelous job and are

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Speaker 2: working incredibly hard. But even from that survey, they themselves

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Speaker 2: had said that they didn't feel there was enough of

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Speaker 2: them to be able to do their jobs.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's not enough of them to do what's being

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Speaker 4: asked of them because they're being asked to do absolutely everything,

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Speaker 4: and they're being asked to do everything for everybody.

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Speaker 3: And they can't.

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Speaker 4: So as a community, we've got to have a conversation

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Speaker 4: and go what do we want our police to do?

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Speaker 4: Do we want our police in the community space? Do

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Speaker 4: we want to have school based constables? Personally, I know

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Speaker 4: that the Member for Goider and I here both on

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Speaker 4: the same page with this. We think that the school

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Speaker 4: based constable programs invaluable. I think that community based policing

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Speaker 4: is invaluable. But if we're going to have that, do

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Speaker 4: we need to pull police back from being in spaces

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Speaker 4: where perhaps territory families need to have a twenty four

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Speaker 4: hour response.

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Speaker 3: And again, a Select.

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Speaker 4: Committee meeting in the lunch hour of Parliament can't have

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Speaker 4: the deep dive into these issues.

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Speaker 2: So Mark, you have written to the Prime Minister. You've

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Speaker 2: also written now to the Attorney General on Tuesday you

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Speaker 2: did that, So I'm assuming at this point in time

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Speaker 2: no response back. But what are you hoping What are

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Speaker 2: you hoping for here?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, at the moment, I imagine they're at tad busy

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Speaker 4: and the Member for Blame probably doesn't write too highly

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Speaker 4: on their radar. The hopefully they'll start thinking about it,

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Speaker 4: and I think I know a lot of people at

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Speaker 4: the moment are turning around and going it's just going

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Speaker 4: to make lawyers richer. We already know what the problems

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Speaker 4: are and they're right, But a Royal Commission sets a benchmark,

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Speaker 4: and there are events coming up over the next couple

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Speaker 4: of months which I think are going to strengthen my calls,

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Speaker 4: and I say and think over the next twelve months

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Speaker 4: with sadly, a lot of queued up coronials that are

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Speaker 4: going to start coming out into the light of day.

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Speaker 4: We're going to see more effects of what I think

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Speaker 4: has been the underinvestment in dealing with this problem coming

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Speaker 4: to light.

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Speaker 2: So, Mark, do you think it's going to get worse

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Speaker 2: over recent months before it gets better?

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Speaker 3: I hope I'm wrong, But yes.

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Speaker 1: What are those events that you speak of?

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Speaker 4: I think the coronial into the Yindamoo shooting is going

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Speaker 4: to be very difficult for us all to deal with,

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Speaker 4: and I think there's going to be a lot of

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Speaker 4: soul searching that's going to need to go on with that.

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Speaker 4: There's been coronials that will need to be dealt with

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Speaker 4: after they've the court case is completed in the domestic

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Speaker 4: violence space, which I think are going to show similar

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Speaker 4: results to other ones that have already sitting there. And

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Speaker 4: if any of you listeners are keen, you know the

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Speaker 4: Coroner's office do a fantastic body of work. All the

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Speaker 4: coroner's findings are sitting there on the website, and there's cases.

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Speaker 2: Like the.

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Speaker 3: Kunjai Green.

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Speaker 4: Rose Worn Raggit that have all got lessons in them.

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Speaker 3: That need to be learned.

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Speaker 2: Now, Mark, one of the obvious questions that people will

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Speaker 2: be thinking to themselves this morning is why have you

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Speaker 2: needed to write to the Prime Minister and the Federal

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Speaker 2: Attorney General? Have you raised these issues with the Chief

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Speaker 2: Minister and our own Attorney General.

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Speaker 4: I've been talking about these since before I was a

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Speaker 4: member of Parliament. I was talking about these when I

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Speaker 4: was in the Police Association. The problem is with the

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Speaker 4: Northern Territory legislation. We've got the Inquiries Act of nineteen

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Speaker 4: forty five which hasn't had a lot of work done

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Speaker 4: on it since nineteen forty five. It certainly doesn't have

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Speaker 4: the power of a Royal commission. For your listeners that

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Speaker 4: are particularly keen on it, they'll the Fitzgerald Inquiries in Queensland,

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Speaker 4: which set a benchmark of lessons learned on dealing with

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Speaker 4: issues around police and police related inquiries, and they've trance

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Speaker 4: for that knowledge into role commissions.

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Speaker 3: So unless our Inquiries.

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Speaker 4: Act was beefed up so that we could do things

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Speaker 4: like Summon's Interstate Witnesses or our ICAC Act was beefed

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Speaker 4: up and the KAQ budget was substantially increased rather than cut,

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Speaker 4: then the territory may be able to stand on its own.

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Speaker 4: Two legs, but you're always going to have the problem

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Speaker 4: in the territory that there's only a couple of degrees

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Speaker 4: of separation. Again, if we look at don Dale, this

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Speaker 4: is a bigger problem.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's a big call to say that, but

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Speaker 2: like I tend to agree with you at this point.

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Speaker 2: I think you know we are hearing so loudly and

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Speaker 2: clearly obviously that you know that this is a concern

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Speaker 2: for our Northern territory police. How did you vote yesterday?

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Speaker 2: Did you vote for the select committee to go ahead?

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Speaker 2: Or what do you vote for?

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Speaker 3: No? I didn't.

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Speaker 4: I sat and thought long and hard about it. Firstly,

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Speaker 4: my vote wouldn't have made a difference on the numbers,

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Speaker 4: and then it became an issue, an issue of ethics

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Speaker 4: for me?

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Speaker 1: Is it an issue of ethics?

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Speaker 2: So you know, if you're calling for a Royal commission

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Speaker 2: into this, and if you are really passionate about there

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Speaker 2: being an inquiry, wouldn't that have been the first, like

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Speaker 2: a good first step.

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Speaker 4: That's what went through my head. And this is why

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Speaker 4: I like talking to KT, because you hold me to

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Speaker 4: a camp. If a select committee had got up, and

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Speaker 4: what worried me was when I heard about that lunch blake.

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Speaker 4: The lunch break thing really set alarm bells off in

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Speaker 4: my head that it was just going to be another

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Speaker 4: example of a band aid, a superficial We've done something,

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Speaker 4: let's move on to the next issue.

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Speaker 2: So you reckon, it needs to go further, and much further.

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Speaker 4: I'll give you an example, so it's not just me

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Speaker 4: waffling on because I know what politicians are like. We

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Speaker 4: had the I think it was twenty and eighteen, we

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Speaker 4: had the When Helping Hurtz review that was released at

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Speaker 4: the Pete McCauley Center, excellent report into police mental health

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Speaker 4: released at the new multipurpose center at the Pete McCauley

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Speaker 4: Center that was going to be this new Butte facility

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Speaker 4: for police to use as a mental health facility. As

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Speaker 4: far as i'm a where, it's still never been used

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Speaker 4: as a mental health facility. It's being used as a

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Speaker 4: classroom by the college. But it looked good, it sounded good.

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Speaker 4: Did it achieve anything tangible? I'd say no, So you reckon.

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Speaker 2: That's what's happening is that we're in a situation where

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Speaker 2: we keep sort of doing things as measures to hopefully

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Speaker 2: make a difference, but nothing's actually making a difference at

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Speaker 2: the moment.

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Speaker 4: You've been up here a long time, Katie. How many

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Speaker 4: times have you seen different inquiries, different select committees come up,

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Speaker 4: different recommendations be made, and then nothing happens. You know,

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Speaker 4: if you want one that's happened recently. Remember when I

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Speaker 4: was on the radio, we're talking about the moldy houses.

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Speaker 4: Steve contacted me recently after the press He's heard nothing.

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Speaker 4: And it's the sort of thing where, well.

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Speaker 2: It shouldn't actually have to be journalists in the media

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Speaker 2: holding holding our politicians to account. I mean, you guys

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Speaker 2: are all elected by us to do your jobs and

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Speaker 2: we should be able to count on the fact that

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Speaker 2: people are actually doing those jobs.

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Speaker 3: Keep on holding us to account.

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Speaker 2: I don't worry, I will Mark. We are going to

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Speaker 2: have to leave it there. Appreciate you coming in this morning.

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Speaker 2: I know that you've obviously got to get to Parliament.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for your time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Katie, Thank you