WEBVTT - OCD isn't what you think it is 🧼 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:08.000 Get everybody. It's been a it's been school holidays, so 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.040 I absolutely love school holidays, but it is kind of 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.440 crazy because I'm trying to feel like I'm trying to 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.119 live two lives at once because work doesn't necessarily stop. 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.520 And we had a beautiful week away up in Queensland 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.720 with the family, some wonderful time with Snares and the girls, 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:28.840 and back into the swing of things this week, and 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.360 got a really, really wonderful guest in the studio today 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:34.920 who is someone that I've never had the pleasure of meeting. 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.800 Can't wait to meet her, but her reputation is nothing 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:41.760 short of stella, and she is an expert in a 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.320 really interesting topic something we've never spoken about on this 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:46.960 show and perhaps doesn't get spoken about anywhere near as 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:50.240 enough in general, and that is OCD. That's something I 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:54.640 definitely don't know that much about. Perhaps some of my 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.640 perceptions are wrong, and I'm hoping to sort of shift 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.600 those perceptions learn as much as I can. It's a 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:03.840 wonderful Penny Moody. And then we're going to talk about 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.360 training at night, as I'm getting lots of questions around 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.080 training later at night now that it's getting lighter longer. 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:28.800 That's all coming up in this episode of The Woodlife. 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.840 So we're having the studio with us today the absolutely 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:38.640 lovely Penny Moody, who has just written her first book. 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:43.119 Penny is an OCD advocate, social work student, wonderful mum 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.039 of three. She's previously worked as a communication especially since 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.840 mental health not for profits and in the general health sector. 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:53.320 She's created a website even called soocd dot com dot 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.280 au to help people navigate the world of OCD and 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.639 the book that I was referring to has been wonderfully received. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.360 Probably heard about it. It is called The Joy Thief, 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:04.360 which is just a beautiful name. Penny, Welcome to the 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.920 Woodlife and thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me, 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.520 I mean, I mean, it's really wonderful to have you. 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:11.919 It's also Penny's birthdays. And that's embarrassed. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:18.120 A little text from from a little Birdie giving me 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:18.799 the heads up. 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.400 But I'm glad. I'm glad I was told because it 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.560 would have been embarrassing if I'd found that out. No, 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:26.360 I know, you wouldn't have been I probably would have 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:31.120 found out. Now I feel rude. We just started to 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.760 have a tiny little chat before coming on air, which 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.120 is probably not good podcasting. That was about O c D. 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.720 And I feel there's someone really really close to me 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:45.359 in my life that has it, and I probably haven't 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:50.200 been very patient. I haven't had a very good understanding 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:54.800 of it. I still don't. But how how did you 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.400 find out that you had O c D? And what's 0:02:58.480 --> 0:02:59.200 your story? 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:02.160 Yeah, it was. It's a really long journey for me. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:08.240 I looking back, I would have started to experience obsessions 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.000 and develop compulsions when I was about six or seven, 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.640 so really little, really young. I didn't know at the 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.240 time what was going on, but. 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.080 You have memories even from that age. 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.760 Yes, I do have very strong memories. The first one 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.200 being I was so worried that my mum and dad 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.200 would get into a car accident, and that's a really 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:32.200 normal fear for a young kid to have. But to 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.520 alleviate the anxiety that that thought would bring up in me, 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.320 I would start to develop these compulsions in these rituals, 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:42.160 which in my mind would keep them safe. So that's 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.760 actually kind of known as magical thinking OCD. So it's 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:49.120 two things that have no logical connection. But every night 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:50.720 before I went to bed, I would do these certain 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.160 rituals and tap on wood a certain amount of times 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.720 and say a combination of words in a certain way, 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.200 and in my mind that would keep them safe. Was 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.720 my responsibility to keep them safe, which sounds so illogical, 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.000 It is so illogical, but that's just what started to happen. 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:12.080 So already your description is starting to shift my perception 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:14.880 of OCD, Like I think of I don't know, Jack 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.400 Nicholson turning the lights which is ten times, or cleaning 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.279 people that. Yeah, you know, I can't stop mopping the 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.320 floor over then the floor is perfectly clean, you know, 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:27.000 like that. It's so stereotypical. I know, but that's kind 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.160 of where my head goes, and probably many others go. 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.719 But there are so clearly already just unpeeling the onion 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:38.200 a tiny bit, so many different forms of OCD. Is 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.000 there a definition that you typically go by, just to 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:42.279 go back before we go forward? 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.919 Yeah, I mean OCD generally it's like the presence of obsessions, 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.839 which can be you know, unwanted thoughts or feelings or 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:54.080 urges or sensations which provoke a certain amount of anxiety, 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.839 and you then start developing compulsions, so they're repetitive behaviors 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.920 which to alleviate the anxiety. So generally that's what OCD is. 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.240 And the compulsions aren't always very overt, like it could 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.839 be just ruminating about something over and over and over again, 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.120 So it doesn't have to be really physical, you know, 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:14.880 like the one that people go to often it's like 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.520 hand washing. That's how I saw it depicted as a 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:19.440 young kid. I also saw it depicted as you know 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.040 Jack Nicholson in As Good as It Gets and what's 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.320 his name? In match Stick Men? It was so Nicolay. Yeah, 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.760 it was always the same sort of thing, and it 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:30.640 can play out like that, but it can also be 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:35.440 totally different. And I think in those examples they never 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.840 really showed the like the real distress that it costs. 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:40.680 Like you always saw the behaviors, but you never saw 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.400 the distress that the obsessions provoked in people. 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.640 So you're sat at six or seven? Did it get worse? Right? 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.120 So as the years went on, it got worse and 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:54.240 worse and impacted you more and more. Was he getting 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.920 older and probably more conscious of it and started one 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.000 more curious about it? What was the gap from seven 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:03.960 to actual diagnosis? 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:08.440 Yeah? It was so it generally would flare up during 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:13.240 times of upheaval, which is really common. So when I 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.320 was about eight, we moved overseas for a couple of years, 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.960 and then the obsessions started to change. So I started 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.760 worrying that I had AIDS at eight years old. And 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.159 my dad was working in that area for U and AIDS, 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:29.760 so that's why it was something in my consciousness. But 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.760 I started worrying that I had AIDS and that I 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.159 might die of it, but also that I would maybe 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:40.359 give it to other people, and that really dominated my 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:45.120 thoughts for a couple of years. And to deal with 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.400 those obsessions, I would do different things. I would do 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.640 those sort of things like I would wash my hands 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.280 a thousand times, which I again wouldn't stop you from 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.120 getting AIDS. But the main thing I would do was 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.240 go to my mum for reassurance and I'd ask her 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.920 multiple times day if certain things I had done could 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:05.680 lead to me getting AIDS. And this happened for years, 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:07.960 and yeah, it was really tiring. 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:13.400 And did she or did think anything of it? Or 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.920 was it our kids, you know, like their little quirks 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.840 that they have that makes them almost so endearing. Was 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:21.440 it that attitude or was it. 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.120 There wasn't much around OCD at the time, so it 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:28.240 didn't they didn't think o CD. I think they thought, gosh, 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:32.240 this child is quite anxious and is worried about a 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.480 lot of different things. But the thing was I was 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.680 it was so important to me from such a young 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:42.480 age to present like a very competent front, like I 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.560 was doing well at school, I had lots of friends, 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.840 I was still functioning. But this was all happening kind 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:53.280 of below the surface. And yeah, it was later on 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.080 that they realized, okay, something we you know, she needs 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.120 to get help. But during that time I was still 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.120 functioning quite well. So I think they just thought I 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:02.560 was quite overly anxious. 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:06.920 Yeah. Yeah, and I guess I'm asking one through the 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:09.880 story of your history. And two, I guess with three 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.520 little kids of my own, four girls, i'd love. And 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.080 I'm sure there are many parents out there wanting to 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:20.320 be able to identify cues and signs that perhaps there 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.120 are things that they need to be looking out for 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.400 that maybe they're thinking they see it as something else, 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.880 or you know, they sweeping on the carpital, they just go, 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:29.600 it's just how kids are. 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.480 I do get asked a lot, you know, how do 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:34.560 I know if my kid has OCD? And it's a 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.080 really hard question because there are a lot of behaviors 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:40.360 that kids can be doing which can overlap with different 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:44.600 diagnoses as well, or can just be normal developmental behavior. 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.840 But what I was told by a child's psych was 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.720 it's kind of all about distress and disability. So if 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.680 it's causing great distress and it's also kind of really 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:01.480 impacting their functioning or your functioning as a family, that's 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:03.520 when you start to note. But again that can be 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:05.560 hard because a lot of the time they'll try to 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.920 hide that, so they might still look like they're functioning, 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.319 but they're actually having a lot of trouble. But if 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.160 you think that it's starting to really cause a lot 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:19.520 of distress these sort of thoughts or behaviors that they're doing, 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.400 then it's certainly worth getting a second opinion. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.560 To even just talking to you for seven minutes. And 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.480 I don't feel comfortable admitting this because I feel quite 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.920 guilty about it, but I've been very dismissive I think 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:40.559 of the severity of OCD to not to the point 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.920 where I've taken the mickey out of friends, but to 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.400 the fact that I have perhaps thought they've been making 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.280 a manner out of them Aleho a little bit, or 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:54.000 making it out to be more debilitating than I've ever 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:59.080 really grasped. It can really be a debilitating disease, can it? 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.599 It is? It really is debilitating, But you wouldn't be 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.560 alone there, Sam, Like so many people have this kind 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.720 of surface level idea of what it is, and you're right, like, 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:13.400 not many people feel comfortable talking about it openly and 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.200 honestly because it's there can be really taboo topics involved. 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:21.360 You can feel a lot of shame around it, and 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:25.320 sometimes you can start gaslighting yourself thinking, well, like, you know, 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.160 I was never like an organized person, or you know, 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.200 so I would I would worry if I told someone 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.840 I had OCD. That'd be like, no, well you definitely 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.240 don't have OCD, and then I'd start to question it. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.680 But what it is is so different to how it's 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.839 perceived in popular culture or in general society, Like it 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.160 is actually like living in your worst nightmare every day. 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:45.400 That's how I describe it. 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:50.360 So we've spoken very briefly about identifying it in your children, 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.520 what about it identifying it out like for all our 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.320 adult listeners out there, what should they be looking for. 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.360 And then I guess, most importantly, if you are feeling 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:03.400 that's the case, what's the best source of getting help. 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:07.760 Yeah, So the way I ended up getting a diagnosis 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.480 was I pretty much self diagnosed. So after so long, 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.520 I one day picked up a magazine I think it 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.480 was The Good Weekend and it had someone's really honest 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.360 story about OCD and it was anonymous because maybe because 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:24.440 it was so painfully honest, and I recognized myself in 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.040 it and I was like, Oh, that's me. I've got OCD. 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:31.080 I never realized like it was such a huge moment 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.240 for me, and it was like a huge weight taking 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:34.880 off my shoulders. And I showed it to my dad 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:36.520 straight away and I was like, this is me, this 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.360 is what I've gone through. And it wasn't until a 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.720 couple of years later that I actually went to find 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.079 someone who had experience in dealing with OCD, and I 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.079 knew that they did something called exposure and response prevention therapy, 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.720 which has the most research behind it when it comes 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.440 to trading OCD. So it's about facing your whatever fear 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:58.960 it is head on, So trying to do something that 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:03.920 might trigger that just stress and then not performing the 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.280 compulsion because we know that every time we perform a compulsion, 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.560 it fuels the obsession. So it's like this really awful 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.000 kind of spiral, so. 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.840 Fighting all of your urges. However you dealt with that 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:19.080 in the past or ways. 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.960 You just you sit with the anxiety and you don't 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.559 perform the compulsion and you start to create new neural 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.600 pathways in your brain. It's really hard. It's really hard. 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:30.880 That does sound it is, and doing it with someone 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.400 who has experience is really vital. And if you have 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.840 kids with OCD, it's really important to be doing it 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.040 as a family because obviously the therapist isn't going to 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:41.679 be at home. You're going to be the one trying 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.319 to stop them from performing their compulsions. And it might 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.160 not be stopping them all straight away, but gently trying 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:52.240 to stop those behaviors. Yeah, so that's what I's That's 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.920 the thing that changed the game for me was doing ERP. 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.160 And do you still do that to this day? Is 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.200 that an ongoing practice? It is? 0:12:59.440 --> 0:12:59.959 Yeah, it is. 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:05.040 Unfortunately, no, no I thought it might be that you'd always be. 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:08.319 It is getting better at it, you know, learning uncovering 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:09.319 new techniques that. 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:13.000 Work or yeah, it's something I still see a therapist weekly, 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.320 and that's cost Not everyone can do that. It's bloody 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.520 expensive and I'm very privileged to be in that position. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.040 But I don't do like EERP every day or even 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.079 every week. It might just be like once a month, 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.320 or it might be when I noticed that compulsions are 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.959 starting to creep back into my daily life. So it's 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:33.480 not something I do every day. 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:36.440 And so how long have you been doing that for? 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.640 Now? So I was diagnosed at thirty one, and well 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.840 I'm thirty six now, so there go so five years. Yeah. 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.720 Do you feel there's a huge number of people out 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.720 there living with this that aren't diagnosed? 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.560 Yes, yeah, definitely. You know, the stats around it are 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.080 like two percent of the population. I reckon it's way more. 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:04.560 What are the most common I guess behaviors or traits 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:08.680 that a scene with it? I mean, these stereotypes come 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:12.359 from truths or are they just entertaining for us? 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.880 A good question? I think they, I think they. I 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.240 think the core of it it comes from truths, because 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.240 you know, for example, contamination o CD is probably the 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:26.240 one that people would think of C. Yeah, and that 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.640 absolutely can be the case. So people with contamination o 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.640 CD might be really worried that they'll be infected by 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.200 something or they'll infect others. So often they'll they will 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.640 wash their hands, but it won't just be them like 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.520 really wanting to wash their hands, or you never want 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.040 to do the compulsions. But you know, I met I 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:49.120 met a woman who was so deep in contamination o 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.440 CD that she started to shower with bleach like this 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.240 was this is so this can be so debilitating and 0:14:55.280 --> 0:15:00.640 so dangerous as well, But that can be really common 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:05.600 and really really distressing. There's something called emotional contamination, which 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.880 is really interesting and again quite common, where you can 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:15.400 start to associate like a bad feeling or something you know, 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:17.640 something you don't want to happen. I guess you start 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:22.240 to associate that with a person or a color or 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.840 a number or something, and so you then start to 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.400 avoid different things. So like an example I read was 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:33.000 about a girl who started to associate eating anything red 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.840 with the thought of blood and contracting some sort of disease, 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.120 and so she'd started to avoid eating anything red, but 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.480 then it got so bad that she started to avoid 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.280 any clothes that were red. She wouldn't want to be 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:50.280 around anyone who was wearing red and that just severely 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.000 impacted every part of her life, and that can be 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.880 really common. But I know it sounds like, it sounds 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.880 crazy and it sounds really illogical, but the people who 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.200 are engaging in these behaviors like do know that at 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.160 their core, but they can't help it. And then there's 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.520 things like there's harm OCD which can often rear up 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.960 during the perinatal period for women, so you know, when 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.280 you're pregnant or in the year after you have a kid, 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:21.120 often men or women can be besieged by thoughts of 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:25.040 harming their child. So the thoughts aren't unique to people 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.400 with OCD. Anyone can get any sort of thoughts. But 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.920 these thoughts will cause so much anxiety that some people 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.560 will then just start to avoid their baby because they think, 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.120 if I'm near my baby, what if I hurt them? 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.800 Like I'm a danger to them? Really really awful stuff. 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.840 But yeah, there are so many different subtypes really yeah, 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.080 but at the heart of it all is this real 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:51.360 fear of uncertainty. That's kind of what binds everyone together 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.120 who has OCD. It's this fear of uncertainty and trying 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:58.560 to do things that will make you think that you 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.480 can achieve that that certainty when you can't, Like, no 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.399 one can get certainty around anything. That's what I've learned. 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.840 If any of our listeners are hearing this, and it's 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.200 not them, it's someone that they do love, if someone 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.080 has been diagnosed, or if these are behaviors in someone 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.080 that you care about that you're recognizing, what's the what's 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.200 the best support mechanism that you can provide for those 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:22.240 people that you care about. 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:27.080 Yeah, it's a good question. I think firstly, the most 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:32.760 important thing is to sounds kind of cliche, but not 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.399 to try not to judge them and their behaviors. Like 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.320 I said, people with OCD don't want to be engaging 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.639 in these behaviors because they cause a lot of distress. 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.919 But there's something telling them that they can't stop. So, 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.679 you know, saying something like why can't you just stop 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.399 worrying about that? Or why can't you just stop doing that? 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.359 It just won't help. No matter how many times you 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:03.400 say it, it will not help. 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:05.320 It probably make things worse. 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.680 Yeah, yeah, it might, just that sense of judgment. 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.320 Can I ask a really personal question and please don't 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.919 feel like you have to answer it? How much have 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:20.000 you I hate using that improved, but how much have 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.320 you changed in the five years since you've been doing 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.440 this therapy? Like if you had to as a percentage, 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:28.680 is that a hard question. 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:33.600 To answer, like ninety five percent. So it's improved so 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:39.520 much and treatment, you know, it's so the kind of 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:43.920 research around ERP, so using a combination of the explosion 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:48.040 response prevention therapy and medication is like there's so much 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.080 to suggest that it's really really successful for a lot 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.520 of people. There's so much hope for people. 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.959 And that's that's really important because there might people are 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.439 listening going it is it's right. I can't carol this, 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.280 you know, and I've been dealing with it for decades potentially, 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.680 So to hear a story like yours where you've actually 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.239 I mean, that's really powerful. I'm really glad you said that. 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.879 Is there a specific medical professional that you should go 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:19.920 and see for that diagnosis before the therapy or both 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:24.040 the diagnosis and the therapy if there are people that want, yeah, 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.800 sort of in that limbo period of not knowing. 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:28.840 Yeah, I'd suggest to people to try to see a 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.280 GP first if you can, because then you can get 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:35.000 a mental treatment plan, right, and from there a GP 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.240 won't diagnose you, but from there you could either see 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:40.760 this is easier said than done. At the moment, a 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.800 psychiatrist or a psychologist who I guess will be able 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:44.640 to diagnose. 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:45.800 You're suggesting because they're all fully booked. 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.960 They're all just fully booked. It's so, it's done. It's 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:54.400 really it's really distressing hearing people's stories about how they're 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:56.240 on so many weight lists or they can't even get 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:00.600 on a wait list. But hopefully eventually people can see 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.479 someone who has experience in treating it, and then and 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.359 then they might. Yeah, the psychologist will obviously look at 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.160 the different therapies, ERP being the most having the most 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.080 research behind it, and a psychiatrist or a GP might 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.199 put you on medication if they feel like that's needed. 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.280 How long has SOOICD dot com dot au the website 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.480 been around and what do people get there? And then 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.960 why the book because I'd love to know about that too. Yeah. 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.919 So I started SOOCD with a friend of mine, Rosie, 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:31.520 a couple of years ago, and it was at the 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:36.600 start of the pandemic and she had recently been diagnosed 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.000 with OCD and knew that I had OCD and we 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.520 started talking about it in the website. What we what 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:45.399 we spent a lot of time on was trying to 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:50.800 find specialists in different in various states in Australia who 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:53.840 have experienced treating OCD and we list them and then 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.120 we also list other websites that do the same thing. 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.000 So it's actually can be a little bit of a 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.600 shortcut for people like to find the right helpantas there's more, 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:05.120 because there's just more. There is more out there now, 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.840 so it's definitely really hopeful. But that's why we did 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:10.360 the website and. 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:12.600 Tell us about the book because it's been out for 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.120 a couple of weeks now, it's available in all good bookstores. 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:19.160 I've seen it floating around social media and people raving 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:22.320 about it. Why did you write it? What's the response 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:24.160 been and what can people expect? 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:30.520 Yeah, I wrote it because I think I needed a 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:35.960 resource like that. When I was much younger, I was 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:39.520 approached by an editor who had this idea because I 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.680 think she'd read a couple of articles that I'd written, and, 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:44.440 like I was telling you before, I was three months 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.640 pregnant when it all started, and I was a bit 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.119 daunted about how the hell, I would get a book 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:54.119 done when I was pregnant with my third child, but 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:58.080 I just the spit of time. Oh my god, it's 0:21:58.119 --> 0:21:59.600 all a bit of a blur. But I thought, I 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.399 can't not do this. This is such a great opportunity. 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:05.040 I've always loved writing. It was like a dream of 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:07.119 mine to write a book, So to put that together 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:11.040 with talking about OCD just made so much sense. So 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.840 I decided to kind of weave my personal experiences through 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:18.760 the book, also chat to experts from around the world 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:20.840 to try to get a clearer picture about what it 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.280 is and how it can present and how you can 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:26.119