1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,000
Speaker 1: You're listening to mix one oh four point nine's three sixty. Well,

2
00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,600
Speaker 1: this week we'll see the Territory Economic Reconstruction Commission in

3
00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,720
Speaker 1: Darwin for the first time. The Commission is going to

4
00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:15,080
Speaker 1: be holding meetings with various industry sectors and business leaders

5
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,480
Speaker 1: before they deliver a final report to the Chief Minister

6
00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,079
Speaker 1: in two weeks. Joining me in the studio is the

7
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,640
Speaker 1: co chair of the Commission, Andrew Liverus.

8
00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,880
Speaker 2: Good morning, Hi Katie, nice to be here.

9
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,960
Speaker 1: Great have you in the studio. Thank you, Andrew. Various

10
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,960
Speaker 1: meetings are going to be held this week before the

11
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,720
Speaker 1: report's delivered to the government in two weeks. As I

12
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,559
Speaker 1: understand it, who will you be meeting with and what

13
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,400
Speaker 1: information are you hoping to gather?

14
00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, obviously being in person is, you know, in

15
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,879
Speaker 2: the COVID world a real bonus and really appreciate being

16
00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,080
Speaker 2: able to get up here and probably a little late

17
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 2: in the game, but certainly we've been tracking through the

18
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 2: electronic interactions or the groups we are going to be

19
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 2: meeting with, so Team Reinbound, Team Territory, the Industry Association's

20
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 2: Industry Groups, NAIF or all the various parties that we've

21
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,880
Speaker 2: actually had lots of interactions with As you indicated in

22
00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,319
Speaker 2: your intro, we're down to the tail end and so

23
00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,319
Speaker 2: this is really more validation of what we've developed. And

24
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,399
Speaker 2: you know, you can imagine the report is fairly fairly,

25
00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,200
Speaker 2: fairly complete, and so this is a good check and

26
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,080
Speaker 2: balance for us to you know, touch and feel if

27
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,720
Speaker 2: you like the report and the people that have put

28
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,199
Speaker 2: the submissions in. We did a couple of field trips.

29
00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,480
Speaker 2: Field trip, yes, TV Islands was terrific and I mean

30
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,319
Speaker 2: for me as a territorian, I was just really blown

31
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 2: away with what's happened there over the last decade or two.

32
00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,039
Speaker 2: Lots to do, clearly, you know, but you know it's

33
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,240
Speaker 2: good to actually be out in the field and actually

34
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,039
Speaker 2: talk to the people involve the lands councils for example.

35
00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 2: You know we've had interactions with two lands councils already.

36
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 2: More to come. So busy three days, I can.

37
00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,560
Speaker 1: Tell you that I bet it has been and I

38
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,560
Speaker 1: know that you do get to the Northern Territory fairly regularly.

39
00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 1: But what have been your thoughts since coming back this

40
00:01:59,280 --> 00:01:59,840
Speaker 1: time round?

41
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,480
Speaker 2: Well, so you know, COVID has reset not just the

42
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 2: territory but the country and the whole world clearly, you

43
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,560
Speaker 2: know the dramatic effects of all the big geopolitical trends

44
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,440
Speaker 2: such as the US elections, such as the ascendency of China,

45
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,440
Speaker 2: the pandemic and interrupting global supply chains. You know another

46
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,400
Speaker 2: trends which have been around but just get exacerbated, like

47
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,440
Speaker 2: climate change and sustainability and digitalization and what's the future

48
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,920
Speaker 2: of work. You know, the collision of all these trends.

49
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,320
Speaker 2: I'm a student of them, if you like, I'm almost

50
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,000
Speaker 2: a graduate of them. And I've been very active with

51
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,760
Speaker 2: the federal government and of course the territory government to

52
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 2: really help the territory and then the federal government, but

53
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 2: certainly with my remit here to help the Chief Minister

54
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,480
Speaker 2: in his ask. He got an a team in the Commission,

55
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 2: if I can say that, some really incredible commissioners. We've

56
00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,640
Speaker 2: worked very well together. We bring lots of things to

57
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,960
Speaker 2: the table about how the territory should actually launch itself

58
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,480
Speaker 2: post COVID. I think lots of governments are asking the question,

59
00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 2: lots of countries, and of course the territory needs to

60
00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,959
Speaker 2: go ahead of the game in a way you ask

61
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,160
Speaker 2: about coming back. This is a time where actually the

62
00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,760
Speaker 2: playing field gets leveled. You should almost forget the size

63
00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 2: of the territory in terms of its population at this

64
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,440
Speaker 2: point because actually what is happening with these trends is

65
00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,800
Speaker 2: everyone's having to go to the same starting line and say,

66
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,360
Speaker 2: in a post COVID world, what's recovery and jobs look like?

67
00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,239
Speaker 2: And can I craft a plan that actually gets the

68
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 2: territory ahead ahead of the game in some of its

69
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,320
Speaker 2: key areas that can compete in And we've been really

70
00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:30,120
Speaker 2: focused in on that.

71
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,360
Speaker 1: So taking that into account, how do we get ahead

72
00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 1: of the game Because previously, when you look at places

73
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,080
Speaker 1: like Queensland and Western Australia, particularly with things like gas

74
00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,200
Speaker 1: and mining, they have been more open to industry.

75
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,200
Speaker 2: Well, this has to start and finish with a thought

76
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 2: that this opportunity for the territory to be the easiest

77
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,800
Speaker 2: place in Australia to do business. I'm a business person,

78
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,840
Speaker 2: I've spent forty three years at Global Business and you

79
00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,640
Speaker 2: know I've written a book about red carpet and red tape.

80
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 2: This has to be a red carpet economy here, not

81
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,920
Speaker 2: a red tape economy, which means we've got to really

82
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 2: audit and self evaluate the layers of government, the layers

83
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,160
Speaker 2: of approvals. I mean, it's really you know, tragic that

84
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,160
Speaker 2: we haven't had new mining projects in this territory for

85
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,800
Speaker 2: you know, a decade or so. This is basically you

86
00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,480
Speaker 2: get a reputation with that, so no companies will come

87
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,599
Speaker 2: to you. So you know, you not only have to

88
00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,560
Speaker 2: obviously remedy the way we approve things, the way we

89
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,080
Speaker 2: evaluate things, but you also have to get the private

90
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,480
Speaker 2: sector and the public sector to be true partners. The

91
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,719
Speaker 2: solution I found around the world is that where we

92
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,680
Speaker 2: can get true public private partnerships, and the Chief Minister

93
00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,200
Speaker 2: is welcoming that idea and how to get it done.

94
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,000
Speaker 2: We're best best in class countries around the world. We've

95
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,040
Speaker 2: bought them here that nowhere in Australia has this happened effectively.

96
00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,640
Speaker 2: Yet I know the Prime Minister is definitely working on

97
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,080
Speaker 2: it with his ask of the private sector. Private sector

98
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,039
Speaker 2: can't be single company focus, has to be sectorial focus.

99
00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,000
Speaker 2: So you got you can't speak your book, You've got

100
00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,200
Speaker 2: to actually come to the view that it's actually all

101
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,400
Speaker 2: of industry, all of the sectors. And so that particularly

102
00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,440
Speaker 2: opportunity brings the territory to a place that I can

103
00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:07,200
Speaker 2: get ahead of the game.

104
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,600
Speaker 1: Andrew, I know that you and the others on the

105
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,720
Speaker 1: Commission will certainly be delivering a report which aims to

106
00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,160
Speaker 1: give the Chief Minister and the Public Service a roadmap.

107
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,480
Speaker 1: I guess you'd call it to deliver those things and

108
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,200
Speaker 1: to make it easier for industry to do business. But

109
00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:27,200
Speaker 1: it may be a tough and cumbersome ask to get

110
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,560
Speaker 1: the people that maybe haven't been doing that for some

111
00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,159
Speaker 1: time to actually change the way that they're doing things.

112
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I can say that generationally, and definitely that

113
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,840
Speaker 2: includes you. The generation coming through is actually very anxious

114
00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 2: for that to happen. We can't sit on the laurels

115
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,440
Speaker 2: of our previous accomplishments. The analogy I give often is

116
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,239
Speaker 2: do you drive a car with a rear view mirror

117
00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,640
Speaker 2: only or do you look through the windshield? And looking

118
00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:53,719
Speaker 2: through the windshield is a mindset shift to your point

119
00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 2: that involves everyone in the car. If I use the

120
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,280
Speaker 2: analogy a little further, that's not just the civil service,

121
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,600
Speaker 2: but as I've just mentioned, the private sector and oh,

122
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,200
Speaker 2: by the way, the small medium enterprises that are the

123
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,160
Speaker 2: ecosystem of innovation in most countries. You know, an israel

124
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 2: a Silicon Valley a Singapore. Why not here? The talent

125
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 2: and capabilities of the territory are huge. I've been super

126
00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 2: impressed with the people that we've been interacting with. They

127
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:19,960
Speaker 2: want it to be a better place to do business.

128
00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:21,960
Speaker 2: And in fact, if you can actually make it the

129
00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,120
Speaker 2: best place to do business, you'll attract people. And why

130
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,360
Speaker 2: not now? And by the way, the oft heralded statement,

131
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,440
Speaker 2: we're very close to one of the largest, if not

132
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,360
Speaker 2: the largest market in the world, but we've never taken

133
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,159
Speaker 2: advantage of it. So let's get the sectors, mining, agriculture, defense,

134
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,960
Speaker 2: gas and gas based industries, solar and renewables. Let's get

135
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,800
Speaker 2: these sectors and triple down on them, and get the

136
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 2: small medium enterprises, the government sector to basically embrace the change. Yes,

137
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,440
Speaker 2: you're right, mindset shift on steroids.

138
00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like it. It sounds as it's going

139
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,000
Speaker 1: to need to see a real shift. Are they the

140
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,840
Speaker 1: industries as well that we're really going to be looking

141
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,599
Speaker 1: at here? I mean, we talk a lot about gas

142
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:07,400
Speaker 1: and about mining, but also agriculture, aquaculture. It sounds as though,

143
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,840
Speaker 1: you know, there's no limit, there.

144
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,720
Speaker 2: Is no limit other than our human capacity to get

145
00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 2: it all done, so the roadmap will speak to priorities

146
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,160
Speaker 2: on those sectors, and the pretty much are most of

147
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,480
Speaker 2: the sectors. There's a couple of others, but certainly what

148
00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,840
Speaker 2: we're basically saying here this is not about one project

149
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,400
Speaker 2: or three projects or ten projects. We've got to stop

150
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,400
Speaker 2: this in out mindset. You know, get a project, mobilize

151
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:35,080
Speaker 2: a workforce, workforce leaves that is destabilizing. To building an

152
00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,200
Speaker 2: ecosystem of supply chains, you've got to actually put a

153
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,800
Speaker 2: programmic address to sectors and prioritize them and recognize you

154
00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 2: can't get it all done in one day or one

155
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,640
Speaker 2: year or three years. A rolling view to three to

156
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 2: five year plans is how the private sector works. So

157
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,800
Speaker 2: transformation for a twenty thirty timeframe, that's the mindset. We

158
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,000
Speaker 2: were told to look at a forty billion dollar economy

159
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,880
Speaker 2: by that period of time, increasing the GDP growth rate

160
00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:03,280
Speaker 2: the territory and punch above its weight and literally look

161
00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,120
Speaker 2: at the growth sectors that we can actually double and

162
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,440
Speaker 2: triple down on, and then look at the barriers and

163
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,080
Speaker 2: the barriers need enablers and the enablers on funding and financing,

164
00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 2: the enablers on infrastructure, the enablers on skills in human

165
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,320
Speaker 2: capital and the enablers on regulation. We dove into all

166
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,320
Speaker 2: of those and have firm recommendations on how to get

167
00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:21,840
Speaker 2: them fixed.

168
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,160
Speaker 1: All right, talking about priorities, which are the industries that

169
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 1: realistically we need to get stuck into first.

170
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,920
Speaker 2: So one of the ways I can answer that is

171
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,720
Speaker 2: to actually say the sectors I've just already talked about,

172
00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,440
Speaker 2: not to repeat, but certainly within those sectors there's sub sectors.

173
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,760
Speaker 2: And in the next three years we have over three

174
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 2: hundred submissions into the Commission. It's a phenomenal response. We

175
00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,720
Speaker 2: are not picking winners and losers, but we are actually

176
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 2: giving the Chief Minister and his implementation team a mechanism

177
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 2: to choose how to actually go and get funding from

178
00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,040
Speaker 2: the federal government, also from good debt. The way this

179
00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:57,600
Speaker 2: is all gets going to get funded, by the way,

180
00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:02,120
Speaker 2: is debt based, and you use Nathan the finance agencies

181
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 2: out of the federal government. The federal government has put

182
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,280
Speaker 2: a program in place that it basically is across the

183
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,440
Speaker 2: country to actually leak the country forward on these industries

184
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,280
Speaker 2: in these sectors. So guess what the federal government's moving.

185
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,760
Speaker 2: Federal government has jurisdiction over us let's get some of

186
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 2: that and so we'll prioritize. And within that prioritization, I

187
00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,280
Speaker 2: personally have participated in a review of a dozen projects

188
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,120
Speaker 2: that we can bring over the line. And if we

189
00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:26,640
Speaker 2: can bring some of these projects over the line and

190
00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,440
Speaker 2: the sectors you just talked about, fix the funding and

191
00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,360
Speaker 2: get several in the pipeline, you're going to seek quicker

192
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 2: action than you think. Really, it is all about implementation

193
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,680
Speaker 2: and accountability and transparency, and I'm convinced the Chief Minister

194
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:41,280
Speaker 2: is very determined to do that.

195
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,480
Speaker 1: Well, I think they've got no choice at this point.

196
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,640
Speaker 1: You know, the budget was handed down last week. We

197
00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,760
Speaker 1: have got huge levels of debt and everybody understands that

198
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,959
Speaker 1: you do need to take some risks to be able

199
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,440
Speaker 1: to get ourselves out of this situation. But you know,

200
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 1: we've heard time and time again from the government that

201
00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,200
Speaker 1: you can't cut your way out of this situation. They've

202
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,120
Speaker 1: got to obviously bring industry to territory. So we are

203
00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,000
Speaker 1: all really waiting to see exactly what comes out of

204
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 1: the report and what tacked the government takes. So the

205
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,120
Speaker 1: report is going to be handed down in two weeks time, yes,

206
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,560
Speaker 1: but realistically we've got a fairly fair idea of the

207
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,000
Speaker 1: different industries that we're going to be looking towards. And

208
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 1: what you're saying this morning is that we can expect

209
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 1: some action sooner than we think.

210
00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,920
Speaker 2: I think so and I really you know, coming up

211
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,640
Speaker 2: here and being in person, you can see the passion

212
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,560
Speaker 2: And of course to your point, what would you do

213
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,240
Speaker 2: if you didn't do this? I mean fundamentally, if you

214
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,920
Speaker 2: think about COVID world and the decline and the economic

215
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,880
Speaker 2: activity around the world, you think about the supply chain interruptions,

216
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,520
Speaker 2: you think about on shoring, which is a new thought

217
00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,520
Speaker 2: for Australia. Let's bring some of that sovereign capabily on

218
00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,920
Speaker 2: shore and why not the territory l like defense. So

219
00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,600
Speaker 2: this is the time to put good debt. There's good

220
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,880
Speaker 2: debt and bad debt. Bad debt means you borrow money

221
00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,040
Speaker 2: and you put in unproductive uses, taking money and putting

222
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,679
Speaker 2: into risk manager tivities where we're good at you could

223
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,200
Speaker 2: actually get returns on that debt. That's a very known

224
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,160
Speaker 2: model in private equity world. So let's take it on.

225
00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,559
Speaker 1: One of the things that we've spoken about before is gas. Now.

226
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 1: I know that the Gratton Institute they released a report

227
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,360
Speaker 1: on Monday, largely rejecting the Morrison government so the Prime

228
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,080
Speaker 1: Minister's plan for a gas led economic recovery, saying it

229
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,840
Speaker 1: will fail to lower prices or stimulate major manufacturing jobs,

230
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,440
Speaker 1: rekindling a debate over the role of the gas in

231
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,439
Speaker 1: the role of gas in the energy sector. I mean,

232
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,319
Speaker 1: what would you say to that commentary? And really what

233
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,880
Speaker 1: would you say following on from that Gratin Institute report?

234
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,360
Speaker 1: I mean, is the future gas or are we going

235
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:43,440
Speaker 1: down the wrong path here?

236
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,760
Speaker 2: We're going down the right path with gas. The Gatin

237
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,600
Speaker 2: Institute is indicative of something I've seen around the world.

238
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,400
Speaker 2: These are a bunch of theoreticians and academics that have

239
00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:56,320
Speaker 2: never operated anything, never run a business. They're actually totally theorists.

240
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,679
Speaker 2: And guess what they do. They're generate models. And what

241
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,920
Speaker 2: does goes into a model? Are assumptions? Tell me about assumptions.

242
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,280
Speaker 2: What assumptions are you using? Of course, the gas price

243
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,440
Speaker 2: is high in Australia. We don't produce the gas for

244
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,320
Speaker 2: on shore. We sell it all overseas. Think about this.

245
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,680
Speaker 2: Ninety five percent of the gas producer in this country,

246
00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:16,000
Speaker 2: including here in Darwin, is shipped overseas. It's converted to

247
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,640
Speaker 2: finished products. That this whole studio is full of gas

248
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,840
Speaker 2: based products. I can go around the room and point

249
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,480
Speaker 2: them out to you, but I won't bore you. So

250
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,640
Speaker 2: please understand the gas converts to useful products for modern

251
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 2: science and monument and we import all the finished products.

252
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,600
Speaker 2: We export the jobs. What country in the world would

253
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,560
Speaker 2: leave the jobs in the ground A or B export them.

254
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,040
Speaker 2: Let's get real. I run businesses for forty three years.

255
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,560
Speaker 2: I have a little bit more credibility than some think

256
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,640
Speaker 2: tank that thinks and understands things based on financial model.

257
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,120
Speaker 2: I think all their assumptions are flawed and by the way,

258
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,520
Speaker 2: I think their conclusions attainted for where they sit in

259
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,160
Speaker 2: the spectra environmental activists, I'm an environmentalist. I believe in

260
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,960
Speaker 2: net zero twenty fifty. I believe in emissions reduction. I

261
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,319
Speaker 2: believe the pathway to get there is to get out

262
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,679
Speaker 2: of coal, to get out of high CO two emissions.

263
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,320
Speaker 2: And for those fossil fuels like gas that are more

264
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,640
Speaker 2: emissions friendly, how about carbon capture and storage. Let's develop

265
00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,800
Speaker 2: technology roadmaps to answer the question of COO two emissions.

266
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,120
Speaker 2: And by the way, forestry offsets and oh, by the way,

267
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,120
Speaker 2: building a gas pipeline grid to allow hydrogen to come

268
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,360
Speaker 2: when it's affordable. And oh, by the way, to build

269
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,000
Speaker 2: gas fired powerstations that affirming power until batteries are affordable.

270
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,679
Speaker 2: If that sounds like common sense, it is. And oh,

271
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:29,439
Speaker 2: by the way, the US is doing it, Europe is

272
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,319
Speaker 2: doing it, Japan's doing it, China's doing it, and Australia

273
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,560
Speaker 2: wants to not develop its own gas. Makes no sense.

274
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 1: Andrew, we're running out of time, but I do really

275
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,960
Speaker 1: quickly want to ask you about the American election and

276
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,720
Speaker 1: the impact that it could have here in Australia. Obviously,

277
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,360
Speaker 1: we know that you've done work for both sides of

278
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,680
Speaker 1: the political spectrum in the US, but obviously it is

279
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,240
Speaker 1: looking as though Joe Biden is in. Is this going

280
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,640
Speaker 1: to be a good thing for the Northern territory, particularly

281
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,559
Speaker 1: when you talk about our defense presence here and our

282
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 1: military presence, I guess it's yeah.

283
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,199
Speaker 2: I would start with the thought that where you'd ended

284
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,319
Speaker 2: up on your question that the US I've lived in

285
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,600
Speaker 2: and seen now for a couple of decades, presidents from

286
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,000
Speaker 2: Clinton to Bush to Obama to Trump and the vice

287
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,960
Speaker 2: president of the President of Likeke Biden. The Australian psychology

288
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,920
Speaker 2: around the US has to be one of equality on security,

289
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,720
Speaker 2: defense and market. We shouldn't be lauding the fact that

290
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 2: they have a surplus with US. We should actually have

291
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,040
Speaker 2: a trade balance where we sell more to them than

292
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 2: they sell to us. That relationship needs a calibration based

293
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,440
Speaker 2: on technology and based on innovation, based on value add

294
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,560
Speaker 2: They don't see us that way. They see it as

295
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,720
Speaker 2: a very strong partner in this part of the world.

296
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,720
Speaker 2: So security defense matters. We need to develop innovation ecosystems

297
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,600
Speaker 2: where they can attract them like US money goes to Israel,

298
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:49,920
Speaker 2: US money goes to other parts of the world like

299
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,800
Speaker 2: Germany and Singapore. We need to build that capability you

300
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,640
Speaker 2: want to coming here. The Prime Minister is very very

301
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,520
Speaker 2: much doing that with a modern manufacturing initiative. The modern

302
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,200
Speaker 2: manufacturing initiative needs to find its way to Darwin. I'd

303
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 2: like to see some innovation ecosystems here with American money

304
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,280
Speaker 2: and American partnerships. The Americans want to partner with Australia.

305
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,880
Speaker 2: The Five Eyes binds US. We have to diversify away

306
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,760
Speaker 2: from China. Are US under President leg Biden will actually

307
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,880
Speaker 2: make that accelerate. They love Australia. I've worked with the

308
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,360
Speaker 2: Vice President when he's under the Obarment and Registration on

309
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,560
Speaker 2: the Manufacturing Council. He's pro Australia. We need to develop

310
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,480
Speaker 2: that relationship immediately to its next level of investment and

311
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:33,560
Speaker 2: innovation on green energy, on supply chains, and on course

312
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 2: keeping China in check, which I think we can do

313
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,280
Speaker 2: without the bellicose way we've been doing it lately.

314
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,680
Speaker 1: Andrew, we've run out of time, just very quickly closing

315
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,720
Speaker 1: thoughts on the Northern Territory and where you see us

316
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,360
Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, just ten years down the track.

317
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 2: Australia is well known and the territory in particular is

318
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,480
Speaker 2: known for the underdog status. You know. We like to

319
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,560
Speaker 2: consider ourselves as punching above our weight and really going

320
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,720
Speaker 2: out in the world well seen and doing great things.

321
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 2: And we have that in so many different fields. The

322
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 2: territory needs to grow out of its inferiority complex. The

323
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,680
Speaker 2: territory needs to woman up and man up and actually

324
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 2: say I can become an economic powerhouse as part of

325
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 2: the Asian ecosystem, not just talk about it, but actually

326
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,640
Speaker 2: take firm, bold steps and by doing so attract people

327
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,320
Speaker 2: to come and live here. I've spent what forty eight

328
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,880
Speaker 2: hours here? Whatever, it's been. The pride of Territorians is overwhelming.

329
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,800
Speaker 2: And you know the old definition. How do you actually

330
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 2: what's in a Territorian? You have to be born and

331
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 2: bred here or can you immigrate here and spend ten

332
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,000
Speaker 2: twenty thirty years in Whitter? It doesn't matter. People here

333
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,600
Speaker 2: really can get it done, so for me, this is

334
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,160
Speaker 2: our time. Actually, don't want to sound like glib and trite.

335
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,880
Speaker 2: It is the time to get it done well.

336
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 1: Andrew liveris a co chair of the Territory Economic Reconstruction Commission.

337
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 1: Really appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much for

338
00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,600
Speaker 1: coming in and having a chat with us. Thank you, Katie,

339
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 1: happy to be thank you, thank you. You are listening

340
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,119
Speaker 1: to MIXWANO four point nine's three sixty