1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: Now, if you were listening to the show. Yesterday, I 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: caught up with the Shadow Treasurer Angus Taylor, and i'd 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: spoken to him. He was talking about energy and what 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: the Coalition wants to do when it comes to energy, 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: and was talking about nuclear energy. Now, I had asked 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: him a question about whether he would rule out having 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: a nuclear waste dump in the Northern Territory, and Jerry 8 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: Wood messaged me and he said, Katie, don't call it 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: a waste dump. It is a nuclear waste facility. And 10 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: he has done quite a bit of work when he 11 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: was a politician in terms of checking these facilities out. 12 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: And Jerry Wood joins me on the line, Good morning. 13 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 2: Jerry, Good morning, Katie. And I don't glow in the day. 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: So even despite visiting those facilities, he not glowing yet, Jerry. No. 15 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: And I think one of the problems we have in 16 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: our community is that there's always been a section of 17 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: the cam meaning very much opposed to nuclear in any 18 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 2: shape or form basically. And so one way to also, 19 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: you know, promote that side of the debate is that 20 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: you call where the waste would go, you called it dumped, 21 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: and make it sound like it's just thrown in a 22 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: hole and buried. Well, that's exactly the opposite of what 23 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: I saw when I went to France. I did a 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: tour in twenty fourteen of Spain, France, Germany and parts 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,279 Speaker 2: of the United Kingdom looking at various forms of energy, 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: from solar to win to title to wave technology. But 27 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: I also had to look at nuclear because I knew 28 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: very little bit about it. But we also was of 29 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: interest in ordn therapy because there have been a lot 30 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: of debate at that time about what's happened to our 31 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: waste from the Leucasytes facility and what happens to the 32 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 2: waste from a lot of our medical facilities around Australia. 33 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: And the government was looking for a site and looked 34 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: for a site up near Macadi Station, which was given 35 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 2: initial approval by Northern Land Council for us to put 36 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 2: in a site to put that waste. Now, I thought, 37 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: because there was opposition to that as usual, I thought 38 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: I'd have a look at how France deals with its waste. Now. 39 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: It has fifty seven reactors and it's had those reactors 40 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: built since nineteen seventy four, and so a majority of 41 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: its electricity comes from nuclear. Although the company. I went 42 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 2: to see Caller Rivera who's one of the main people 43 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: that operates the nuclear power plants. Also is provide a 44 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: big promoter of offshore wind, hydrogen and other renewable so 45 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: it's not just concentrating on nuclear, but nuclear gives it 46 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: the base power. So I went to that. I was 47 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: taken by a lady called Camille to Sheerburg, which is 48 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: right on the the west coast of France near the 49 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: Channel Islands, and that's where our waste comes in from Leukacytes, 50 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 2: because we have a responsibility to take the waste back. 51 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: What they do in that area, in a place called 52 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: La Hague, which is about thirty k's west of Sherburg, 53 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: is they take out the plutonium from the rods that 54 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: are sent back from Leucacytes, and they reuse that plutonium. 55 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: They have a couple of special nuclear plants that can 56 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: actually burn that plutonium so that disappears. In fact, they 57 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: have seventeen percent of their energy from nuclear is from 58 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: recycled product. So what we get back is caesium, which 59 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: obviously is pairy dangerous, not dangerous dangerous, it's long lasting, 60 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: but that's put into glass, a type of glass material 61 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: and then that's packed into a container a little bit 62 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: like a gas bottle, and that's how we would get 63 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: it back to Australia. And now we were supposed to 64 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: get twenty five of those containers back in by twenty fifteen. 65 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: I don't know what happened, but I know that things 66 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: are now stored presently at Lucas Heights because the government's 67 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 2: had trouble finding a place to put this little bit 68 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: of waste, and with a very small amount now just quickly. 69 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: The other thing is there's a lot of discussion about 70 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: nuclear where we have nuclear power plants. I stood on 71 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: and I've got a picture of my I did a 72 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: newsletter and sent this out to everybody in the electors. 73 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 2: At that time, I still on the top of forty 74 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: years of Francis nuclear power plants waste. It's about as 75 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: big as a soccer field. So they have fifty seven 76 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: power units nuclear power units, and the amount of waste 77 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 2: fits on a rougher the size of a soccer field. 78 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: And I have not heard of any problems with the 79 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: stories of that. Waste. Obviously is monitored by the Atomic 80 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 2: Waste Tomic Energy Commission or Nuclear Commission, and they have 81 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: the people I met, they're not bills. They are really 82 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: always they were always enforcing them that they were very 83 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: concerned about any issues of safety, and they were always 84 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 2: trying to improve. In fact, they've got new new power plants, 85 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: one was called at Flamanville three, which are able to 86 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 2: use much more of the waste up. So France now 87 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: exports it's electricity to United Kingdom in Italy. It originally 88 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: was going to reduce the number of nuclear reactors and 89 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 2: now it's actually announce said it will build another six. 90 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: Jerry, I'm gonna have to get ready to wrap up 91 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: because we've got a head across to the news. But mate, 92 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: I mean from your from the work that you have done, 93 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: and you know on what you've seen, and you are 94 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: the very definition of what was an independent politician. Do 95 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: you think that we'd be able to manage having nuclear 96 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: power in Australia and you know and the and I 97 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: suppose dealing with that waste. 98 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: Well, if the French can do it, and they've had 99 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 2: it since nineteen seventy four, surely we can learn from them. 100 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: We can use their technology and their people to help 101 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: us do it. They're an example of how it can 102 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 2: be done. And look, it's not the only top phenergy 103 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: we've got. In fact, the French president at that time, 104 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: when he was announcing the idea that increased the numbers, 105 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 2: wasn't just commenting on just having nuclear. They need, as 106 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 2: they said, to also have renewables and they want to 107 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: have that balance. But they need the both. They don't 108 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 2: need one above the other necessarily. So look, if we 109 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: use the technology and the experience of a country like France, 110 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: I think we can do it. But we've also got 111 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: to take away those years and years and years of 112 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 2: people who didn't who want who don't like nuclear, and 113 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: therefore will promote everything to make it look like it's 114 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: all bad and the world's coming to an end. It 115 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 2: has to be looked up. It has to be done carefully, 116 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: of course, and we have to make sure that people 117 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 2: understand that. But education is also important, and that's why 118 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: I went to France. How many other members of Parliament 119 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: have been to France? 120 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: They have a look good question, good question, Jerry, Jerry 121 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: would It's always good to catch up with you mate. 122 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having a chat with me 123 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: this morning. Thanks Katie you, I really appreciate your time.