1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: Good Day. 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: This is the Happy Family's podcast. News bulletins have been 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 2: covering the issue of e bikes and scooters and kids 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 2: riding around without helmets and getting up to mischief on 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: these e bikes and scooters non stop. 6 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: Lately, Kai Host was riding an e bike with another 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: relative when he crashed into a ballard. It had been 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: modified to remove the speed limit without his mum's consent. 9 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: I felt like my lay was disconnected. 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: Eight year old Zecondo died when his e bike collided 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: with another along this footpath on the Sunshine Coast. A 12 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: little over two weeks ago. 13 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: The sixty five year old man who was hit by 14 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: an e bike on a western Sydney footpath has died 15 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: in hospital. With Christmas just around the corner, more and 16 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: more parents are considering buying their children e scooters or 17 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: e bikes. Is it a good idea? Is it a 18 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: bad idea? That's our discussion today on The Happy Families podcast. Tragically, 19 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: so far this year, thirteen lives have been lost just 20 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: on queen Land roads while riding e mobility devices, and 21 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 2: police are reinforcing that safe use is not really up 22 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: to them. It begins at home, parents, carers, making informed choices, 23 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: understanding the rules of the legislation, actively supervising young riders 24 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: and not saying well, because everybody else has got a 25 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: bicycle that can go eighty kilometers an hour, let me 26 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 2: get you one as well. E scooters and e bikes 27 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 2: might look like the perfect Christmas surprise, but they come 28 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 2: with responsibilities, according to Chief Superintendent Mark Wheeler, who looks 29 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: after road policing in Queensland. And so today we're going 30 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 2: to have a look at what we need to do 31 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 2: to get this right. Because if you are coordinating with 32 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: the North Pole right now about getting some e mobility 33 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: devices for your children, you want to make sure those 34 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 2: elves have made the right decisions, have made sure that 35 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: everything is compliant, and have checked those devices twice to 36 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: keep kids safe and to make sure that nobody gets 37 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: hurt over the summer riding these e bikes. Okay, that's 38 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: the intro. After the break we talk about what you 39 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 2: need to know when it comes to kids e bikes 40 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 2: and scooters for Christmas. Stay with us. Hello and welcome 41 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 2: to the Happy Families podcast, Real parenting solutions every single day. 42 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 2: This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. My name is 43 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: doctor Justin Coulson with my wife and under our six kids. 44 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: Missus Happy Families, Kyle. I've been doing a lot of 45 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: media interviews lately about e bikes and escooters. Seems like 46 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: every week there's another story, there's another child in the hospital, 47 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,839 Speaker 2: another near miss. Just recently there have been some devastating 48 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: news stories where young people have been killed writing them 49 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: or crashing into somebody or been crashed into and parents 50 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 2: are asking of these things safe. So today we're talking 51 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: about what parents actually need to know about e bikes 52 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 2: and e scooters. 53 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: So we've actually had a scooters for I don't know, 54 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: five or six years now. 55 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, we bought them when they first came out, and 56 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 2: we got the Segway scooters because we thought, oh, we 57 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: know that brand, and we were kind of disappointed. 58 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: And they really were a bit of a novelty back then, 59 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: like not very many people had them. And nowadays I 60 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: go down to our local shopping center and I'm actually inundated. 61 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: I'm actually quite nervous going through the car park because 62 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: there are that many e bikes and scooters with bunches 63 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: of kids coming together. 64 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to sound like a boomer, right now, 65 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: But I was riding my bike the other day during 66 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 2: the school's busy time, as I was coming back via 67 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: a bike path, and I nearly got knocked off my bike, 68 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: my pedal powered bike, my proper road bike. I was 69 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: wearing my likra and my helmet by a kid who 70 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: was just flying on the wrong side of the bike 71 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: path on his high powered e bike. I mean, these 72 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 2: things are motorbikes, not e bikes. Let's be honest, And 73 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: I mean I don't use course language, but I let 74 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: him know that I was pretty upset with him, and 75 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: he just kept on writing motoring along. He didn't care. 76 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: So today the conversation about it, at the risk of 77 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: sounding like we belong on one of those news talk 78 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 2: radio stations, we need to have a chat about them. 79 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: I might also add that our scooters that we had 80 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: were limited to twenty four kilometers an hour, and we 81 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: always thought the kids were helmets and they came off 82 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 2: a couple of times and really hurt themselves, Like you 83 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: can hurt yourself really, really badly when you come off 84 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: one of these things. Anyway, let me give you the 85 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 2: headline numbers, the stats, the big picture stats that are 86 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 2: concerning I did some research between January twenty twenty one 87 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 2: and December twenty twenty four, so we don't have any 88 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 2: of this year's data in the stats that I'm sharing, 89 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: and it's only got worse. But there were nearly five 90 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 2: thousand people who showed up in emergency departments with east 91 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: scooter injuries during that same period. Eight people died from 92 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: eastcooter incidents. That was twenty sorry, that was twenty twenty 93 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: four alone. And just in the past few weeks, like 94 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,239 Speaker 2: I said, in Queensland has been at least two deaths, 95 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: one a teenager on the Gold Coast, another an eight 96 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 2: year old boy on the Sunshine Coast who is hit 97 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: by a teenager who is riding one of these e bikes. 98 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: Just devastating for kids specifically. One regional Queensland hospital was 99 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 2: actually the Sunshine Coast Hospital, saw one hundred and seventy 100 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 2: six kids aged five to five point fifteen with eastcooter 101 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,559 Speaker 2: injuries in just two years. It turns out it's about 102 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 2: one percent of all their pediatric emergency visits. 103 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: I actually wasn't aware at just how many kids are 104 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: being heard. Those are some really big numbers. What is 105 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: actually the cause of the majority of injuries. 106 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so probably not surprising. The data shows that fractures 107 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 2: the big one. Thirty seven percent of cases head injuries, 108 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 2: even with kids wearing helmets, upper limb injuries. But what 109 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 2: really gets me is this, eleven percent of the pediatric 110 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 2: cases were classified as life threatening or potentially life threatening, 111 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: so one in just over one in ten life threatening 112 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: or potentially life threatening kids are getting hurt really seriously. 113 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 2: In the Queensland study, forty two percent weren't wearing helmets, 114 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 2: thirty six percent was speeding, twelve percent had two kids 115 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: on one scoot, doubling median age. Of these accidents, fourteen 116 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: boys make up seventy one percent of the cases, no surprises. 117 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: They're injury spiked really dramatically around about the ages of 118 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 2: fourteen to fifteen. 119 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 1: So these stats, we're not talking about eight year olds 120 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: falling off a scooter here, these older children who are 121 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: being reckless. 122 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: Yeah well well yeah, I mean it's teenagers and they're 123 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 2: treating these things like toys, but they're capable of real 124 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 2: speed and real damage. There are people around our Sunshine 125 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 2: Coast suburb and we see it all the time. They're 126 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: wearing their full face helmets and they're on these scooters 127 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: and I kid, you know not they're going fast than 128 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: the car. So it's a fifty or a sixty zone 129 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 2: and they're going they're overtaking cars. 130 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: There's a couple of kids and it's the same kids 131 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: every time. Down one of our major intersections. There are 132 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: three lanes on either side, and they're up on one 133 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: wheel and just doing crazy stuff in the middle of 134 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: peak our traffic. Yeah, it's infuriating as a parent watching 135 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: other kids taking risks like this, but it's also really scary. 136 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: You get really upset about it when we're together. You 137 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: pointed out all the time, and I'm kind of conflicted. 138 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: They're obviously doing potentially risky. It's not potentially risky. 139 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: It is risky, but it's not only risky to themselves. 140 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: They could hurt somebody. 141 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: There's so many moving parts around them. Any number of 142 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: outcomes can can happen at this. So the question everybody 143 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: I'm assuming is asking, is should I be buying one 144 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: for my kid? 145 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 2: I know I've had a number of parents say what 146 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: do you reckon? Yes or no? Is it a good 147 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: idea or not? 148 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: Look, I know when we first got ours, like we 149 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: were really like very very cautious. We talk to the kids, 150 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: this isn't a toy, this is actually a machine. 151 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 2: Well, I mean it is a toy, but it's a 152 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 2: toy that you've got to respect and be careful around, 153 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 2: and just things like they'd be on the footpath and 154 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 2: then they go onto the grass and they learned really 155 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: quickly that those little wheels don't bounce, like if there's 156 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: a verge between the grass and the footpath, the wheel 157 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: you can sort of slide along it and come off. 158 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: And we had a couple of a couple of kids 159 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 2: really hurt themselves doing that. My short answer is, I 160 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 2: don't think that we should be buying them for our kids, 161 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 2: and if we are, we shouldn't. We really need to 162 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: be having big conversations, serious conversations, big caveats around this. 163 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: And that's because these are not like the scooters that 164 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 2: we grew up with. They are legally scooters. Like I said, 165 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: they can go twenty five k's an hour. A lot 166 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: of e bikes and scooters are being illegally modified so 167 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: they're going sixty k's. I have heard of somebody I 168 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: actually know them. They have an e bike that can 169 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: go up to ninety kilometers an hour. This is no 170 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: longer an e bike. This is not a pedal assist bike. 171 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 2: This is a motorbike. I don't care what you call it. 172 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: And kids, especially kids in their early adolescent years, they 173 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: don't have the impulse control, they don't have the risk 174 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: assessment developmentally, they're just not ready to handle that kind 175 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 2: of responsibility as a general rule, because they're not growing 176 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 2: up with these machines on farms and being taught from 177 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: an early age how to respect the responsibility that goes 178 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: along with it. 179 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: But I know my kid, right, I know they're responsible. 180 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: They wear their helmet, they do the right thing. So 181 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: how does that play out? 182 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and helmet's help. Kids without helmets are seventy eight 183 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: percent more likely to suffer head injuries than kids with helmets. 184 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: But kids are riding them at night, they're, like you said, 185 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 2: writing them in peak hour traffic. They're on the road. 186 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: The question isn't just have I got a responsible child? 187 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 2: It is every other child around them responsible. Because thirteen 188 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: percent of injuries involve motor vehicles. Five kids in New 189 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: South Wales were hit as pedestrians by someone else's scooter. 190 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 2: If you're considering it, then I reckon they need to 191 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: be older, they need to be at least sixteen, they 192 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: need to be mature, and you need to have iron 193 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 2: clad rules. So after the break, let's talk about what 194 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: the laws are in Australia. We'll also talk about the 195 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: pros and cons of going ahead with something like this 196 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 2: for Christmas. And lastly, I want to talk about the 197 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 2: best way to have the conversations. If you do have one, 198 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 2: or if you are going to get one for your kids, 199 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 2: stay with us. You're back. This is the Happy Family's podcast. 200 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: If you like the pod and you're enjoying making your 201 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 2: family happy because of the stuff you're hearing, we'd love 202 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 2: for you to like and share and leave a rating 203 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: and review. It helps make the podcast more visible, So 204 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 2: please jump into the app. It takes you like thirty 205 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 2: seconds and it makes a big impact for us. Okay, Kylie, 206 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 2: where to from here? What have we got to answer? 207 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: What are the laws around e bikes and east cooters? 208 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 2: So they vary by state. I would say that they're 209 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: quite messy and pretty much every jurisdiction right now is 210 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: having a big debate about how they're going to run 211 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 2: inquiries and they're doing reviews into the laws. This is 212 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 2: a really hot topic politically right now. The general consensus 213 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: and check your local state legislature and website for more information, 214 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 2: but the general position is you're allowed to have ees 215 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 2: scooters that can go up to twenty five k's and 216 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: our kids under twelve are not supposed to be writing 217 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 2: them at all, or at least in Queensland, kids between 218 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 2: twelve and fifteen should be supervised by an adult. You've 219 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: got to be wearing a helmet. E bikes are supposed 220 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 2: to be limited to two one hundred and fifty. Watt's 221 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 2: big problem is that you can get modified e bikes 222 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 2: like I said, and go ninetyks an hour six thousand 223 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: what motors. You can import them legally because they're not 224 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 2: classified as road vehicles, so you're buying a motorbike, but 225 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 2: there's no regio, there's no insurance, there's no checks or 226 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 2: anything like that. It's pretty intense. 227 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: So it sounds like the law hasn't actually caught up 228 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: with the technology that's available, and. 229 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: Not with the way that people are using it either. Yeah, 230 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 2: and we actually we saw the police getting stuck into 231 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 2: people who are doing this recently. But police are issuing 232 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: heaves of infringements I came across one stat that said 233 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 2: that in Wa alone, eighty five percent were for not 234 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 2: wearing helmets. But the police literally cannot be everywhere, and 235 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: what are they going to do when they see thirty 236 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: kids riding down the street. You can't pull thirty kids over. 237 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: We actually saw this when we were on holidays recently 238 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: down on the Gold Coast. Police were on at the 239 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: footpath and were stopping e bikes as they were coming through. 240 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: The curious thing to me watching it as a bystander 241 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: was that these were kind of adults and they were 242 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: taking precautions, they were doing the right thing, but they 243 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: were being discriminated against. Yet there were kids on the 244 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: road who were going, you know, twice as fast, weren't 245 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: wearing helmets, and they were completely missed because because the 246 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 1: path pilice from the foot path. It just doesn't make 247 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: sense to me. 248 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 2: And the people who are being fined were clearly not 249 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: happy and were trying to argue their point. I mean, 250 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 2: the reality is some of them were going too fast, 251 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 2: they certainly weren't wearing helmets, they were writing in places 252 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 2: they weren't supposed to be writing, like they were still 253 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: doing the wrong thing. But it's really hard to stomach 254 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: it when ten meters away over on the road you're 255 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 2: watching kids and adults literally fly by doing exactly the 256 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 2: same thing and not being touched. Although that's that's the 257 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: nature of everything on the road, Like if you're speeding 258 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 2: and everyone else is speeding, and then sometimes you're just 259 00:12:58,040 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: the one that gets pulled over by the high patrol. 260 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: That it's just the way it goes. Not that it's 261 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 2: happened to me for about forty years, but or thirty 262 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 2: how old am I? I've just aged myself. So let's 263 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 2: talk about the pros and cons. There's a whole lot 264 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 2: of pros. There's a whole lot of cons. What should 265 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: we start with? What do you think is going to 266 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 2: be more fun? 267 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: Oh? Come on, we've been a bit of a Debbie 268 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: downer to start with, So let's let's pick up the 269 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: pace a bit. What are the pros all right? 270 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 2: For me? Independence, especially for older teens who are in 271 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 2: suburban areas where there's poor public transport, they can provide 272 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 2: genuine independence. My favorite two words go outside and this 273 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 2: gets the kids off screens and it gets them outside. 274 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: So I'm really big on the independence as a as 275 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 2: a positive here if they've got a proper e bike, 276 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 2: not one of those motorbikes. E bikes still require pedaling, 277 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: so there's some exercise. 278 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,719 Speaker 1: Yes, So I don't see any kids on a traditional 279 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: e bike. They're all on these. Yeah, Literally push a 280 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: button and your ped like you don't have. 281 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 2: You've got to do ten pedals and it's up to 282 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 2: speed and then it does the rest. So it's a 283 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: pretty weak probe, but I'm asking it's weak, I'm putting 284 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 2: it in the list anyway, sue me. The third one, 285 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 2: I think that in a very serious way, there are 286 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 2: a lot of people who have accessibility issues, and so 287 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 2: if you've got a child with physical limitations or some 288 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 2: kind of disability, eat bikes may in some cases be 289 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: genuinely liberating because they can now keep up with their peers. 290 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: And the other advantage is if you've got kids who 291 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: need to get to work or they don't have a 292 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: driver's license so they can't afford a car cost and 293 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 2: transport minimal maintenance. I just think that there are some 294 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 2: really good advantages there replace those short car trips. They 295 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: require us to drive them to work or to school 296 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: less less well, I was going to say less congestion 297 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: on the road. But it depends on what they're doing 298 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: and how they're doing it. I think if we're serious 299 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 2: about sustainable transport, immobility definitely has a role. I just 300 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 2: don't like the role. 301 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: But it's currently playing well the wrong people are using them. 302 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: Or they're using them the wrong ways. Yeah, so let's 303 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 2: do the cons It's a long list. Number one injury rates, 304 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: climbing fast. We cover the stats. It's a genuine public 305 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: health issue. Speed mismatch. 306 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: So you get so you've you've acknowledged this, you're on 307 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: a pedal bike, you're on a bike path, and then 308 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,479 Speaker 1: you've got a kid coming past you at motorbike speed. 309 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 2: On the wrong side of the path. So dangerous sharing 310 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: this phone, yeah, yeah, fully. And it's not just that 311 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 2: like you see them you mentioned in the shopping center 312 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 2: car park. So you've got kids on shared paths with 313 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: pedestrians or going through a shopping center location or a 314 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: congested area, and you've got elderly people and you've got 315 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 2: toddlers and prams and shopping carts, and you've got a 316 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: fourteen year old going thirty ks an hour on some 317 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 2: of those footpaths. It's a collusion waiting to happen, and 318 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: there are too many tragic tales already, including funerals other disadvantage. 319 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 2: Kids just aren't complying when it comes to helmets. 320 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: But they never have been. Yeah, like skateboarding, like just. 321 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: But this is prolifect like these, these these are everywheys. 322 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: Have always been an issue. They're not called. 323 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: I remember said if you don't need a head, you 324 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 2: don't need a helmet. That was the TV ad when 325 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 2: I was a kid growing up. Some studies indicate about 326 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: thirty three percent of kids are wearing helmets. Depends on 327 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: the study, I'd say in real life it's probably lower 328 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 2: brain development. Kids' brains are still risk assessment. It's just 329 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: an issue peer pressure. The kids are doing doubles and triples, 330 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: they're racing, they're doing tricks post and boast on social 331 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: media enforcement. We've talked about it's impossible and parents don't 332 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 2: know what the kids are doing. A couple of others 333 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: cost of modifications. When I was researching for this podcast, 334 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 2: I haven't told you this. Kids are buying modifiers online 335 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 2: so they can get rid of the speed limitterters. You 336 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 2: can have a legal twenty five kilometer e bike. Spend 337 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: fifty bucks and get it to go sixty k's an hour. Wow, 338 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: Like this is within the reach of most kids and 339 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: pedestrian injuries. We're just seeing so many people being hit 340 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 2: by e bikes scooters and everyone who goes to the 341 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: hospital that was hit by somebody doing the wrong thing here, 342 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 2: they did not choose to be part of that equation. 343 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: You've been waffling for a long time. 344 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: Now, Oh hush, course, so riveting. This is good quality content. 345 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: We're at like seventeen minutes. You promise, nice, short, easy 346 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: to listen to. 347 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, let's move on. 348 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: So give us some practical advice. Where do we go 349 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: from here? As a parent, I've got a child and 350 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: the top item on their wish list for Christmas as 351 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: an e bike. They're fourteen, and what am I going 352 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 1: to do? 353 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 2: So, I mean, my short answer is, I don't think 354 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 2: you should get them that. I really don't get them 355 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: a normal bike that sucks. I don't care. I want 356 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: one with the motor tough luck, that's just not going 357 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 2: to happen. I think you want kids to be at 358 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 2: least sixteen, preferably a little bit older. I just don't 359 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 2: think that they need them the data and the developmental science. 360 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 2: In my viewpoint that way. Start small. You want to 361 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 2: make sure that they're confident on a bike or a 362 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 2: scooter first, one of them outside, right, I mean, then 363 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 2: non negotiable rules. They've got to wear a helmet. They're 364 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 2: not allowed to double they're not allowed to write at night, 365 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 2: they're not allowed to ride in traffic, speed limits matter. 366 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 2: I'm not allowed to look at their phone while they're 367 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 2: on the thing. Like, these are common sense things, and 368 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: I don't think that parents are having these conversations with 369 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 2: their kids. They're saying, here's the bike, go for your life, 370 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 2: fill your boots. I think you've got to check it regularly, 371 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: make sure they haven't modified it, and if they do. 372 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 2: If they do, then they don't write it. They lose 373 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 2: the privilege for a week or a month or whatever. 374 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 2: I'm not big on punitive responses, but they've got to 375 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 2: play by the rules. And if they already have one, well, 376 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 2: whether they do or not. Three is conversations, frank conversations. 377 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 2: Talk about what you're worried about, Explore what's going on 378 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 2: for them, come up with solutions together where they can 379 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 2: use it and be safe again. I'm not beyond consequences, 380 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 2: but they matter. First offense, without a helmet, it gets 381 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 2: locked up for a week. Second offense, you lose it. 382 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 2: If you want one, you can pay for it yourself, 383 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 2: and you'll pay for the fine and you'll do everything 384 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 2: else as well. I just the costs are high, the 385 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 2: cost of high. And if you're saying no, don't feel guilty. 386 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: The data supports you. Like a parent's job is to 387 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 2: keep the kids safe, and sometimes we. 388 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: Just you don't give your kids keys to a car 389 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: before they've learned to drive. 390 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 2: And they've got a learner's permit, that's right, and. 391 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: This is a genuine risk to their safety and those 392 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: around them. 393 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't know the road rules, but they're on 394 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,239 Speaker 2: the roads. I mean, in so many ways, this is 395 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 2: like having a driver's license, but oh sorry, driving on 396 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: the road. But you're just not in a car, you're 397 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: on a bike. It's look, I'm not anti technology, and 398 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 2: we do need to wrap this up. I think that 399 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 2: emobility has a place, and I think that there's some 400 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: real benefits and bonuses for our kids and for our 401 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 2: families and for us. It's quite convenient, but right now 402 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 2: we're running this massive uncontrolled experiment on our kid's safety. 403 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 2: The laws are inconsistent, enforcement is patchy at best, and 404 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 2: the injury numbers are frankly terrifying. So our jobs to 405 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: look at the DAR, understand the developmental realities and make 406 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 2: decisions that are going to prioritize our kids safety over 407 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 2: convenience or pit pressure. And sometimes that means saying no. 408 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 1: Even when it's not the popular answer. 409 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 2: Especially especially then. Anyway, let's wrap it up. There, enough questions, 410 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 2: enough time, Good luck for Christmas. If this is on 411 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 2: your kid's Christmas wish list. The Happy Families podcast is 412 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: produced by Justin Rulan from Bridge Media, Mim Hammond's provised research, 413 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 2: admin and other support. If you'd like boring fo to 414 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 2: make your family happier, visit us at happy families dot 415 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 2: com DoD a