1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Already and this this is the daily This is the Daily. 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 2: Ohs oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Sam here. 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: Welcome to tda's summer series. I hope you're having a 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: nice couple of weeks over summer, maybe some relaxing time 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: if you're off work or if you are still at work, 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: particularly those in retail or hospitality. I hope you're getting 8 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: some time at the end of the day to get 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: out into the sun. For those experiencing, you know, a 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: bit of live music. I hope you're staying safe, whatever 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: it is. I hope there's a smile on your face. 12 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: This week, we're going to share more of our favorite 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: deep dives from twenty twenty four to keep you company 14 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: over the summer break. Welcome to tda's Summer series. So 15 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: earlier in the year, Australian Treasurer Jim Chalmers got up 16 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: and declared that the worst of the economic downturn is 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: behind us, the cost of living crisis will over. Financial 18 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: experts and central banks all around the world have expressed 19 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: similar sentiment, a kind of cautious optimism that good times 20 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: are ahead, but as we all know, we're yet to 21 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: see any real signs of this relief at the supermarket 22 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: or the petrol station, at the airport, the rental market 23 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: or online. So is the cost of living crisis really over? 24 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: How will we know when it is. To get some 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: answers to those questions, I sat down earlier with Greg Jericho, 26 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: he's a senior economist from the Australian Institute, to get 27 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: the sense of how we'll actually know if the cost 28 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: of living crisis is over. A quick note, we had 29 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: a discussion before the US election, and now some of 30 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: those impacts of a Trump presidency that we spoke about 31 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,199 Speaker 1: in the hypothetical are going to be very real. Here's 32 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: that chat. Greg. Thanks for joining us on the Daily 33 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: OS this morning. 34 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: Pleasure to be here. Sam. 35 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: So, I've got a report in front of me that 36 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: says that Jim Chalmer's Australia's Treasurer, says that the worst 37 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: is behind us. I've got some new data from NAB 38 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: that says that consumers are feeling more confident. In your opinion, 39 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: do you think the cost of living crisis is over? 40 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 2: Look it's over in the sense that, as Jim Chalmers says, 41 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: the worst is behind us. The problem with the cost 42 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 2: of living and inflation is we sort of talk about 43 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: it in terms of annual growth, but that doesn't mean 44 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: we can forget what has happened before. So Jim Chalmers 45 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 2: is right, inflation, the cost of living, the worst is 46 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: behind us. That doesn't mean we're still not feeling pain 47 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 2: of those past couple of years. But I think it's 48 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: right the consumers should feel a bit more confident because 49 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: there's certainly no sense that we're going to have inflation 50 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: rising like it was sort of in twenty twenty two 51 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 2: and twenty twenty three. 52 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: So what are the big factors that have led to 53 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: that reduction in inflation since that twenty two twenty three 54 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: time spot. 55 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: Well, I mean this is a very contested space, but 56 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: certainly our view has been that, well, what caused it 57 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: in the first place, and what caused it was big 58 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: supply side issues coming out of the pandemic. We also 59 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 2: had soaring prices due to Russia's invasion in Ukraine, sawing 60 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: prices in things like gas, petrol, also things like wheat 61 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 2: and fertilizer which were a bit sort of under the 62 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: radar but were certainly raising the cost of things. And 63 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: also because of those two factors together of the supply 64 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: side issues and the invasion, there was this general sense 65 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 2: around the world of inflation rising, of prices going up, 66 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,119 Speaker 2: and a lot of companies around the world in Australia 67 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: was not excluded from this that had a bit of 68 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: market power. We're going, oh, now it's a good time 69 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: to raise prices because everyone kind of thinks that prices 70 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: are going up. And so what we saw in twenty 71 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: twenty two and twenty twenty three is those company profits 72 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 2: rising quite solidly, even in the non mining sector here 73 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: in Australia. And what we've seen over the past year 74 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 2: or so is one those supply side issues are pretty 75 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: much cleaned up. We're fairly well past the pandemic now 76 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: while the Russia's invasion of Ukraine is going on, the 77 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 2: impact on prices has certainly abated, and overall there's been 78 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: this real sort of close look odd companies and how 79 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 2: they're behaving. And what we're also seeing is that company 80 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 2: profits are not growing as fast and so kind of 81 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 2: put those issues altogether, and it translates fairly nicely with 82 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: inflation coming back down, because it was never a case 83 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: that inflation was caused by us all having too much money, 84 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 2: which is the old sort of nineteen seventies style of 85 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: inflation where everyone's getting huge, big wage rises, We've got 86 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 2: stunks of cash and we're going out and spending like mad. 87 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: We were not doing that at all, and yet prices 88 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: were going up, and that's because companies were taking advantage 89 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: of the situation. So kind of all those issues have 90 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: kind of abated and so it's sort of coming back 91 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: to normal. Agan. 92 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: It's an interesting chat we're having Greg because we know 93 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: that for young Australians especially, you know tda's audience and 94 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: those listening, prices haven't come down at supermarkets just yet, 95 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: and there's still a serious anxiety around cost of living. 96 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: So at what level in the economy do you think 97 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: that this sentiment is coming through If it's not coming 98 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: through amongst younger Australians, I. 99 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: Mean, this goes to the real heart of the issue 100 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: with inflation, that prices aren't going to come down. That's 101 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: the problem. What's going to happen is they're not going 102 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,799 Speaker 2: to go up as fast. And when we talk about 103 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 2: cost of living and inflation, we always talk in terms 104 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 2: of annual growth. So at its peak, prices were rising 105 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: around eight percent a year, So everything on average that 106 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: you're buying was eight percent more expensive than it was 107 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: a year before. Now, the most recent monthly one, it's 108 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 2: back down to two point seven two point eight, and 109 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 2: so that's certainly down, but that doesn't mean that we 110 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: can forget what has happened in the past. And so 111 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,239 Speaker 2: if you say, okay, what's happened in the past year, well, 112 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: everyone's wages on average are gone up around three and 113 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 2: a half four percent, prices have gone up around three 114 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: and a half four percent. So basically I can buy 115 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: as much stuff as I could a year ago. Cost 116 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: of living pressures aren't as bad. But that doesn't take 117 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: away the fact that over the past sort of four years, 118 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 2: the prices of everything has gone up around eighteen percent, 119 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: and in that time wages have only gone up around 120 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: eleven percent. So we've got back to a point where 121 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: we're treading water. But it doesn't discount the fact that 122 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: we've just had two three years where we've been going backwards. 123 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 2: And so even though you know, you might be reading 124 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 2: these reports and the Treasure and things are saying, oh, 125 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: you know, the worst is behind us, that's fine, but 126 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: it doesn't always mean we're in a great place. It 127 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: means if you are struggling last year, you're still struggling, 128 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 2: you just aren't struggling worse than you were a year 129 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: ago in a sense on average. So that's always the 130 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: tricky part with inflation and cost of living, and it's 131 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 2: why when you hear politicians say, oh, you know, we've 132 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: got it back down and you know, things are good 133 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: on track, and it's like, yeah, but they're still a 134 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 2: hell of a lot more expensive that they were three 135 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: years ago. So unfortunately, we're not going to see prices 136 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: come down. And this is what younger people will certainly 137 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: be aware of, is it's the cost of the essential 138 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: items that has risen over the past two three years 139 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: more than other things. And because younger workers are generally 140 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: on lower incomes and so most of their income is 141 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 2: going towards rent, going towards food bills and so forth, 142 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: the're the ones who are really hurt from the past 143 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: couple of years. Whereas your older people who have got savings, 144 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: who have got good incomes, who spend more of their 145 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: income on holidays eating out things that aren't essential, they 146 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 2: haven't struggled as much because the prices of those things 147 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: didn't go up as much as the prices of the 148 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 2: essential items. 149 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: While I've got you, I was listening to the Dollars 150 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: and Cents podcasts you do for the Australians that you 151 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: and your discussion around the government's focus and the last 152 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: kind of We've got two on hidden fees and dynamic pricing. 153 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: What do you think sits behind that focus for the government. 154 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: You know, they've got this good news of inflation coming 155 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 1: down a little bit. They've turned the attention to credit card, 156 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: debit cards, flights, that kind of stuff. What do you 157 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: think they're hoping to achieve? 158 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: Well, I think you know, they do want to be 159 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: seen to be doing things to help people's cost of living. 160 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 2: And this is not something that's going to have a 161 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: dramatic effect on inflation, but it's something that people will 162 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 2: certainly notice and certainly hate. Even though things might be 163 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 2: prices might not be going up as much, people still 164 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 2: notice the cost of things and so if you can 165 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 2: do anything as a government to take off some cost, 166 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: I think that really hits home. But also it's just 167 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: it's a good thing to do. It's something that has 168 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: been I think become more noticeable, and especially this dynamic pricing, 169 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 2: which is kind of a newish thing in terms of 170 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 2: especially constant tickets Australian open things like that, where it's 171 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 2: just become quite absurd. And there's not always a lot 172 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: that governments can do about overall inflation, but they can 173 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 2: be fairly powerful getting rid of some dodgy practices. So 174 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: I think that's probably why they're doing it, and also 175 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: just hopefully they're doing it because it's a good thing 176 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: to do. 177 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: The opposition says that it's a distraction from some of 178 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: the larger institutional economic issues impacting particularly young people. Housing 179 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: is something that I know you spent a lot of 180 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: time thinking and writing about. What's your take on that response? 181 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think you know you can walk 182 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: into your gum at the same time. Just because you 183 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 2: might be able to fix housing this week doesn't mean 184 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: you shouldn't get rid of dynamic pricing and debut charges. 185 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: I mean you should be doing both. And oppositions will 186 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: always say that if a government does something, oh, it's 187 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: just a small distraction from this other big thing that 188 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: the opposition wants to talk about. Well, you know, sure, 189 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: but what have they preferred that they didn't do this thing? 190 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 2: On dynamic pricing. It's a bit of a weak argument 191 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 2: in my view. Certainly, you're right the government still has 192 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: lots to do on housing, and certainly if you look 193 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 2: at the polls, people are not all that happy with 194 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: how the government's been going on housing. But again that 195 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: doesn't discount that or this doesn't mean that they shouldn't 196 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: be doing other things that are good and I certainly 197 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: think this dynamic pricing and the debit card fees is 198 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: certainly something that is well worth doing. 199 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: One more question, Greg, because I know if we're going 200 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: to have the chance to chat before the US election, 201 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: regardless of the result, I'm sorry to bring it up. 202 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: Is that a bit painful? Regardless of the results it is. 203 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: Do you think that Australians can expect to see an 204 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: economic impact at home depending on what happens there? 205 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it all depends. If Harris wins, We're 206 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 2: not going to notice much of a change if Trump wins, 207 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 2: and it'll come down to what he does with tariffs. 208 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: What's going to happen is when Trump gets in, governments 209 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 2: all around the world are going to be going and 210 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: trying to get a sweetheart deal. Now, what we have 211 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 2: to do to get that. Generally, it's been the need 212 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 2: of Trump and praise him and say how wonderful a 213 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: leader he is or something like that. Probably we'll probably 214 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 2: get Greg Norman in again to play around a golf 215 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: with him or something. If we get exempt from the tariff, 216 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 2: the twenty percent tariff, that will be helpful, very helpful. 217 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 2: But you know, if he goes full on and Levy's 218 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 2: a sixty percent tariff on Chinese goods, twenty percent tariffs 219 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 2: on most other nations, that's not going to be good 220 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: for the global economy. Australia only gets swept up in 221 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: such things, especially because China is a major export market 222 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 2: of ours, and so if China has owned exports of 223 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: manufactured goods that require iron ore and cold start to shrink, 224 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 2: then that's gonna affect us as well. But so that's 225 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 2: kind of my big worry. If Harris gets in, yeah, 226 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: we're not going to see much. You know, she's much 227 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 2: more concerned about the American economy rather than doing these 228 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: major things that are going to hurt others. 229 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to touch base with you, regardless of 230 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: the result, to see how those kind of scenarios are 231 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: playing out. Greg Jericho from the Australian Institute. Thank you 232 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. 233 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 2: No, we are sam really good to chat. 234 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to that chat. We'll be back again 235 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: tomorrow with another summer series episode. Have a beautiful day. 236 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 237 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,599 Speaker 1: Bunjelung calcotton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 238 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 239 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest 240 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. 241 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 2: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 242 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: both past and present.