1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,279 Speaker 1: From the Daily Os. My name is Billy fitz Simon's 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: and this is no silly Questions. This is the podcast 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: where we break down the big issues for young people 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: in the lead up to the federal election, so that 5 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: you can bring informed insights to your group chat. Today 6 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: I am joined by Tom Crowley once again tda's political 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: journalist content machine. 8 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 2: Hey Tom, Hello Billy. Two times in a week. I 9 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: just can't keep away. We've got so many questions, none 10 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: of them silly call to be answered before the election. 11 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: So many questions. So today it's all about minor parties, 12 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: independence and the balance of power, which we briefly covered 13 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: on Tuesday's episode, But I think that there's more to 14 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: this topic that we should explore. So what are we 15 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: trying to achieve today? 16 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, just as a reminder for anybody who didn't 17 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: hear Tuesday's episode, we talked there about kind of hung parliaments, 18 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 2: and we touched a little bit on the role of 19 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: independence and minor parties when they have the balance of 20 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: power in the House of Representatives in the ability to 21 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: help shape who forms the government. But the role of 22 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: minor parties and independence is bigger than that, and I 23 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 2: think it's important to talk a little bit more about 24 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: who they are, what they believe in, and what their 25 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: role in the political system is. 26 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: Okay, So for your sixty second overview, can you explain 27 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: more about what the role of minor parties and independence 28 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: actually is and then we can go back to who 29 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: they are a bit later on. 30 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: All right, so let me start by explaining why minor 31 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: parties exist. And I think it all comes back to 32 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 2: this idea of compulsory voting in a system where everybody 33 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: has to vote. We've talked about this before. It's kind 34 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 2: of natural that you get major parties who are trying 35 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: to appeal to the middle because you win government by 36 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: appealing to the broadest number of people possible. But when 37 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 2: they're doing that, there are always going to be particular 38 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: causes and particular groups of people that they neglect and 39 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: that they don't include in their platforms. So it's really 40 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: natural in that system that there'll be smaller parties and 41 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: independents that will kind of evolve to advocate for those 42 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: causes and for those groups of people. Now, how do 43 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: those groups have any power if they're not forming government. 44 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 2: The answer is, and it comes back to this concept 45 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: of the balance of power, which again is something that 46 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 2: we've talked about a little bit before. We talked about 47 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: it on Tuesday. In the context of hung parliaments and 48 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 2: the House of Representatives, these independents and minor parties can 49 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 2: help to bring down the government. In the Senate, you 50 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: can't do that, but the role there again is really 51 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: really important. If you sit on what we call the 52 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 2: crossbench in either the House of Representatives or the Senate 53 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: and the government doesn't have full control of the House 54 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: of Representatives or the Senate, then you get to be 55 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: the deciding vote on controversial policies. That's a very powerful 56 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 2: position and we've seen it used to great effects before. 57 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 2: Governments have had some of their biggest policies brought down 58 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 2: by a handful of independence or minor parties in either 59 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: one of the houses. So they're certainly not powerless. And 60 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: the system and the way that the numbers fall can 61 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: make a small party or an independent advocating for a 62 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 2: particular issue suddenly find themselves in this really powerful position 63 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: to get something done on that cause that they care about. 64 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: So they're powerful. They're a very important part of our 65 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 2: democratic system. 66 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's get into specific let's start with the 67 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 1: biggest of the minor parties, the Greens. 68 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the Greens certainly are the biggest one, and 69 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: especially among young people. I think it's about a third 70 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: of young people who voted for the Greens at the 71 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: last elections. Of young people, with the electorate, they'd be 72 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 2: a major party. But nationally they get kind of, you know, 73 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: roughly about ten percent of Australian people voting for the Greens, 74 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: so they are a fairly significantly sized party. Their political 75 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: alignment is to the left, both socially and economically. They 76 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 2: advocate for progressive policies. Their origins particularly were in the 77 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 2: environmental movement and I guess advocacy on climate change, but 78 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 2: it's a much broader range of issues that the Greens 79 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: talk about now as part of it generally being a 80 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: progressive party. And they're quite large in terms of the 81 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: number of politicians that they have as well. So in 82 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 2: the House of Representatives there's just the one Adam Bant, 83 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: the leader of the Greens, who's the member for the 84 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: seat of Melbourne, but in the Senate there are nine 85 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: senators at the moment, and the Greens are hoping in 86 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: this election that they might have even more than that. Now, 87 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: how powerful are the Greens, again, it depends on how 88 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 2: much that they're in this position of the balance of power. 89 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 2: So nine senators is a significant number of senators, but 90 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say that those nine senators 91 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: tend to have less influence when there's a coalition government. Again, 92 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: I guess the power from being a minor party comes 93 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 2: from being the deciding votes. Whereas in the Senate, you know, 94 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 2: either the Labor and the Liberal parties agree, in which 95 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: case you need the Greens, or if Labor and the 96 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 2: Liberals are arguing over something, generally speaking, the Greens are 97 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: going to be siding with Labor anyway more likely than not, 98 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: again because of the Greens positioning as a progressive party 99 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 2: on the left. But when labor governments come along, and 100 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 2: the last time we had a labor government, those Greens 101 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: votes both in the House of Representatives and the Senate 102 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: become a lot more important and the Greens, you know, 103 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 2: if the Labor party needs the votes of the Greens 104 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: to get its legislation through the Senate, then they can 105 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 2: be in a really powerful position to shape what a 106 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: labor government does. In particular, and that is kind of 107 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: the Greens big aim this election. They're talking a lot 108 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: on their website and in their campaign materials about this 109 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: idea of the balance of power holding the government to account, 110 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 2: particularly on issues like climate change, and so that's kind 111 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 2: of the role that they'll play this time. 112 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the Greens. What about some of the 113 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: other minor parties who are in the Senate? Who are they? 114 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 2: So I'll start with One Nation. They're probably the most prominent. 115 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: They currently have two senators and they've been around in 116 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: various iterations for a while. Their leader is Pauline Hanson. 117 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 2: Anyone who's familiar with One Nation will know that they 118 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 2: tend to be to the far right, particularly on immigration issues. 119 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: And again I think that sort of speaks to the 120 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: purpose of minor parties, which is to pick up on 121 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: these things that the mainstream political parties miss and so 122 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: One Nation, you know, advocate for some of those issues. 123 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 2: I guess on the far right. Some of the others 124 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 2: who are in the Senate at the moment, they tend 125 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: to be sort of harder to put in boxes and 126 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 2: they tend to be maybe a little bit more in 127 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: the middle. So, for example, Jackie Lamby from Tasmani is 128 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: probably the most prominent of those, and she's found herself 129 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 2: in quite a powerful position because it's hard to know, 130 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: you know, which way she'll come down on any particular issue, 131 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: and so when she finds herself as the deciding vote 132 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 2: in the Senate, you know, she can use that position 133 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: as leverage and she can try and achieve some of 134 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 2: the things that she cares about in exchange for voting 135 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: for policies that the government wants support on. And that's 136 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 2: kind of the role of these Senate crossbenches and the 137 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: way that all of them use their position in the 138 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: balance of power. 139 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: What do you mean when you say leverage. 140 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: So I'll give a really quick example using Jackie Lamby 141 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 2: on an issue that's very important to her, which is 142 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: the issue of asylum seekers. And so there was a 143 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 2: debate that went on a couple of years ago about 144 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 2: whether asylum seekers in offshore detention should be allowed to 145 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 2: be evacuated to the mainland for emergent medical treatment. It 146 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: was debated a lot in the Senate. Now Jackie Lamby 147 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: supported the principle of that, but she agreed to vote 148 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: for it in exchange for getting those asylum seekers released 149 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: from off short attention and getting them resettled for New Zealand. 150 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: So it's just kind of like she used it as 151 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: a bit of a bargaining chip and she said, all right, government, 152 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: if you want to have my vote to vote against 153 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: this medical evacuation, well I want to get something out 154 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 2: of that. Will you agree to resettle these refugees eventually 155 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: take them out off short attention altogether. And the government 156 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: agreed to that deal. So that's just, I guess, an 157 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 2: example of how the cross benches can use that position 158 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: and I guess put a price on their vote and 159 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: try and achieve some outcomes that they care about. 160 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the Senate. But I want to come 161 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: back to the House of Representatives. I feel like if 162 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: you turn on the news at the moment, you see 163 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: the independence everywhere. There's a lot of seats that we've 164 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: talked about before where they are serious contenders in traditionally 165 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: liberal seats. Can you explain to us who they are, 166 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: what their policies are. Of course they're independent, so they're different. 167 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: You can't group them all together, but can you explain 168 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: more about the independence in the House of Reps? 169 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: I can, so, yeah, the independence we are hearing a 170 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: lot about independence this time. Independence aren't a new thing. 171 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 2: They've always been around and in general to get into 172 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: the House of Reps. House of Reps is all about 173 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: local areas. Independents have been people with a really strong 174 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 2: local presence. So maybe one of the most prominent independence 175 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 2: for a long time has been Bob Catter. You may 176 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 2: know him as the person who is really worried about 177 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: people being torn to pieces by a crocodile in North Queensland, 178 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: and in general, you know, he represents an area from 179 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: North Queensland. He's always talking about issues that people in 180 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 2: his area care about. This time it's I guess, kind 181 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 2: of a little bit different. There are a lot of 182 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: independents who are talking about big national issues that they 183 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: believe that their local communities care about, and in particular 184 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: climate change. There's a whole bunch of independent MPs who 185 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: are challenging what are traditionally liberal seats running basically and 186 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: the idea that the liberal politicians that these areas have 187 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 2: normally voted for. They say they've not done enough on 188 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 2: climate change, they've not done enough on government integrity, and 189 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 2: a couple of other issues to shake up politics by 190 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 2: coming in instead as independence and trying to lobby the 191 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 2: major parties from the outside on an issue of climate change. 192 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: So these aren't areas that necessarily are left wing enough 193 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 2: to vote for the Greens normally, but these are people 194 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 2: who are kind of quite often people who would normally 195 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: be liberal voters, but who this time is saying maybe 196 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: you should try and elect an independent instead and challenge 197 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 2: the major parties on issues that you care about. So 198 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 2: that's where we're getting this kind of rise of independence. 199 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: We're getting a lot of media coverage of them at 200 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 2: the moment. It's going to be very interesting to see 201 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: how much success they have. 202 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: All Right, well, I think that's all we have time for. 203 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: Thanks Tom, thank you Billy, and thank you so much 204 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of No Silly Questions. If 205 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: you've enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five star 206 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: rating on Spotify or Apple and we will see you 207 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: next week.