WEBVTT - Tainted Love 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.360 Before we begin this episode, this is a content warning. 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:10.400 This episode contains descriptions of domestic violence and coercive control 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:15.200 that may upset some people. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:31.520 This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother teacher 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:36.200 friend missing for twenty five years. 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.360 You know, know someone that she was going to vanish. 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:40.800 That's for sure. 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:45.360 The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance. 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.199 I'm not sure if it was intentional or there is 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:51.000 something more foul afoot. If you could imagine a teacher 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.680 coming straight from say little house on the prairie to 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:55.440 the eighties, that was Marian. 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:55.960 Barterho what. 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.120 I say, where do you find Marian Bart dead or alive? 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.880 I honestly believe somebody has that key piece of information. 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:10.039 And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.759 Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave. 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.240 I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:25.240 that somebody knows something. 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:34.360 The Lady Vanishes Episode forty four. I'm Alison Sandy. 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:36.640 And I'm Brian Seymour. 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:43.520 The explosive evidence revealed in our last episode has certainly 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:51.160 made waves. We're hoping the story of marrying barter Rick 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.080 Blum and Gelaine du Bois d'An nois, the latest of 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.760 his alleged victims to step forward in Belgium, is spread 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:06.200 far and wide. There are other women out there, possibly 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.160 in Australia, Europe or elsewhere, who have had dealings with 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:16.799 this man, and we want to hear from them. 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.440 Last time, we went through the extraordinary police statement of 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:25.080 Alexandra Pireboom, who detailed how her mother in law Julane 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:29.360 was love bombed by Frederic de Herdiveri and then scammed 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:35.080 of her life savings. Well, we've been in touch with 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.960 Alexandra with the help of our researcher as Stelle Sanchez. 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:44.080 Alison interviewed Alexandra over the phone. The interview was in French, 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.080 which has been translated to English and subsequently revoiced in 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:49.320 English by Stelle. 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.399 My name is Alexandra pierrebum. I'm forty eight. My mother 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:58.480 in law was a victim in two thousand and six 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:02.760 of the Swindow orchestra traded by a man named Frederic d'dovari. 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:07.720 It's the name under We knew that person at the time, 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.000 so she reported it to the police and since then 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:13.880 we never heard anything new from it, and so she 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.640 kept hoping for developments regarding the case. Since then, we 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.560 often research about that person on the internet to find 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.680 out whether we can learn anything new, and that's how 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:28.160 that recently, while researching on the internet, I stumbled upon 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:32.560 an article from your Lexemple colleague. So I was fastly 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.320 in contact with Jennie Clambert. That's how he gave me 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.600 your contact. He gave me two email addresses, the one 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.240 from crime Stoppers that I sent a message to and 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.320 your email address I found it. I don't exactly remember 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.280 how I found it on the internet, and I wanted 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:51.240 to testify because what was shocking to me when reading 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:55.360 Marian Barter's story is that Frederic d' davari proceeded exactly 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.320 in the same way with my mother in law. What 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.320 stood out to me was how fast he events unfolded. 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.840 We were a unified family with a grandma who would 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.680 often see a grandchildren. At the time, my son was 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.200 two years old, so he would go to his grandmother's 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.680 very often, so we were very close. She lived a 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.320 little outside of Brussels, half an hour away from her house. 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:23.280 We'd see each other very often. She had other grandkits 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.320 that she would see very often as well. So everything 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.840 was like in a normal family, if you will. And 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.360 out of the blue she announces to us she had 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.000 the big news to share with us that she's going 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.640 to get married with that guy Frederick that she introduces 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.760 to us the first time, that she's leaving for Australia. 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.000 And a few days after she tells us that she's 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.800 going to sell a house, a car, that she won't 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.240 keep anything in Belgium, and that she will directly leave 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.479 for Australia with him. And so it was very brutal. 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.240 Was she surprised when she learned who that he was 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.880 known as Rick Blum and he had more than thir 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:04.600 he leases it's Gonnai. 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.640 The first time we saw him, we directly understood something 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:12.320 was off with that man. He was a normal and 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.160 we even well to tell you honestly, well I saw him, 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:20.600 I got scared because I felt something was unealfy. I 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:25.440 directly felt something abnormal the first instant to saw him 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.960 face to face, it was immagate to be scared, to 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.120 be scared for her. But at that time I even 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.279 thought she's going to leave for Australia. He's going to 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.800 kill her and we'll never see her again. That's what 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:40.680 I thought as soon as I saw him. 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:45.360 What does she remember Rick Blum telling them about her 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.120 around himself, like, what was the sort of things that 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:49.480 he said, Kisku. 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.160 Well, we didn't know all the details, but he said 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.599 he was a widower, that he traveled a lot for 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.680 his business. At the time, he was taking care of numismatis, 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.160 so it was going to fairs to find different ancient coins, 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.239 rare coins, as he said, Golish coins, rom and coins, 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:12.840 anti collectible items. So that was his activity. And before 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.279 that he said, well, not to us, but to my 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.080 mother in law, that he worked in the banking sector, 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.120 that he had a lot of money because he was single. 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:25.000 He was traveling a lot to forget maybe to forget 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.279 his loneliness. He said he was going to sell his 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.839 house because it was too big for him and he 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.159 was all alone. And he said to her, if you come, 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.640 everything will be all right. I won't have to sell it. 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.080 It will be just the two of us. That's a 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.599 detail that I remember about it, because no doubt that 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.279 it made the decision easier than if the whole house 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:46.560 issue hadn't been there. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:53.680 How long did he keep her with this bruise? Did 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:58.560 he he fake the relationship with her before she realized, 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:00.400 So that is. 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.800 Very hard to tell because we didn't know about the 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.480 relationship from the time we learned about it. There's probably 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:10.040 one month that went by, two months, free months, but 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.960 no more than that. It was a fairly short period 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:16.560 of time. But unfortunately she doesn't remember when she met 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:17.960 him exactly. 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.280 Two to three months. That ties in with the time 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.239 he seemed to spend with the others who also accuse 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:26.520 him of trying the same fraud on them. 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.680 So it asked her to live with him without telling 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.360 anything to it children and to send them a postcard 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:36.600 once in Australia. That was very brutal. She refused that. 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.720 So we had a first family dinner and my partner, 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.440 who his son, told her, before you leave, i'd like 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.160 to get to know Frederick a bit better because we've 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.200 only seen him once. I'd just like to meet him 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.080 so we can feel at ease for you to live 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.320 with him. We asked that because we were worried. We 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.480 weren't at ease, so it insisted a lot, and my 0:07:57.520 --> 0:07:59.800 mother in law didn't want to refuse him that, but 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:04.480 Frederick was absolutely against it. My mother in law insisted 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.000 as well, and Frederick finally agreed. So him and my 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.000 mother in law were going to come eat at her house, 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.760 and that was after our holidays in France. So at 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.920 the end of August beginning of September a date was 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.480 set up. It was right before the departure. She'd already 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.240 started to empty a house. So on the day of 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.960 our get together, my mother in law arrived at our 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.720 place from her house and Frederic had been in Amsterdam 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:35.040 for his business. I don't know all the details, but 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.800 he went to Amsterdam for a few days and so 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.520 my mother in law is there. We're waiting for Frederick. 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.960 He's late. She gets worried and tries to call him 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.960 and no answer. Time goes by and is still not 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:54.000 answering his phone. So she started to get very worried. 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.040 She started to shiver. We could see. It made her 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.400 very emotional. We don't know how to react. And then 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:02.680 she explained to us he had a very big sum 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.040 of money on him and she's worried that he might 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.439 have been attacked during the trip. Then I said, if 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.000 that's what it is, then you should go to the police. 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.439 So we went to the police, but she was a 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:18.440 bit embarrassed. She didn't know how to explain the situation 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.439 to the police. She said, well, I haven't known him 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:24.480 for a long time. What am I going to say? 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.480 I'm not his wife, I'm not They'll make fun of me. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.319 No doubt that in her mind she already knew there 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.559 was a problem that he swindled her, but she didn't 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.080 admit it to us at that instant. On our part, 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.920 we were still hesitant. We were mostly in action mode. 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.440 We knew we had to go to the police. We 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:49.000 didn't ask ourselves questions. Then it all happened very fast. 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.959 The same night she called us and told us he 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.600 is a swindler. He took all of my money. 0:09:56.200 --> 0:10:00.640 How did she react? Did she see just saying when 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.600 she realized that she was she angry? 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:03.360 Was she sad? 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:04.960 Was she devastated? 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.080 What was the grecution? 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.120 She definitely tried to hide it from us because she 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.960 felt very ashamed to have fallen for his show, to 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:18.120 have lost all of her savings. So it was a 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.000 feeling of shame, so she didn't want to talk about it. 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:26.960 She didn't explain everything in detail. She isolated herself. It 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.600 was quite terrible because we were ready to help, but 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.839 she didn't want us too because she felt guilty about 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:33.560 what happened. 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:35.560 How long did it take her to recover. 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:39.200 She has incredible energy, so she acted as if nothing 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:43.040 had happened. She continued on with the life. What happened 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:45.760 was she sold the house and she left for France, 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.320 so that's probably what saved her. During that trip to France, 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:53.240 right before finding out about Frederick, one of her sons, 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.760 who lives in a farm in France, told her, it 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.160 would be good if you buy the land next to 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.160 mine where there's a farm as well, because it will 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.840 be helpful to me, And because she didn't need the 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:08.000 money she got from selling her house, she agreed to 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.760 buy it. So she sold her house in Belgium and 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.240 she bought this farm. And not having a house anymore 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.760 and having nothing left, she told herself she didn't have 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.960 another choice but to leave for friends without all of 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.840 her belongings, because moving everything was very expensive and she 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:28.600 didn't have any savings left. So she went to live 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.320 in a big farm on her own in the middle 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.960 of nowhere, and she kept going on with her life. 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.040 That farm wasn't the most comfortable, so she ended up 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:40.520 selling it. Later on, she moved on. She's never been 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:44.160 crushed by it. She has incredible energy and never let 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.559 the situation get to her too much. She really has 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.880 exceptional strength. If you talk to her, you'll see what 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.079 we thought was. We imagined Frederick would grab the money 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.120 she got from selling a house, but because she didn't 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:02.520 have that money anymore, because she bought another house, maybe 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.400 he told himself, well, that situation isn't interesting anymore. 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.160 That's what we thought. How did she fear like mention 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.360 that she feared for a life? In more way? Could 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:13.000 she explain that? 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:14.440 Which as little bit more. 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.800 Face listen for that The better is to ask her directly. 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.040 There are several things. There are gloomy details that I 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:27.120 described in my letter. There was something coolish about him here. 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.720 Alexandra does revisit the reasons she outlined in her letter, 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:35.080 which we detailed in the previous episode, including his insistence 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.120 that she have a liver scan. Given will be speaking 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.760 to Julane more about this soon. We thought it better 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.200 we just hear it from her, But Alexandra did recall 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.520 another additional detail which was quite alarming. 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.200 Because they slept in the same bed. You told her, 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.080 you don't breathe correctly during the night. You need to 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:56.920 do a check up to find out whether you have 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:02.160 sleep abney, which she did have. Afterwards, we thought he 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.120 was looking for a weak spot to say, well, she died, 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.679 but it's normal. It's her liver and she had to 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:11.520 sleep atney and herself. She said at one point you 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.240 should ask her directly about it. But she said that 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:16.840 at one point she got scared that he would use 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:18.000 a pillow to smother her. 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.559 Well, I guess that's the next question. Do you think 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.439 he was capable of violence and what makes you think that? 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:30.000 Yes, that's what we believed. Now it's only intuision. You 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.800 see someone and they scare you, but you can't explain 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.080 exactly why. There were a lot of things in this 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.800 behavior that weren't that of a stable person. He was 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.480 of an imposing size, He had a lot of strength. 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.760 It's more a feeling than concrete. We didn't see him 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.040 apart from the time he insisted for her to do 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.880 a medical examinations where it was verbal violence. But we 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:57.280 didn't see him being violent, but we could feel he was. 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.120 We felt it was likely to happen. The answer is 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.320 crystal clear she wouldn't have come back. I'm sure he 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.120 would have killed her. I felt it. I can tell 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.720 you that the day of that family reunion, I left 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:11.880 the table to go to the toilet to cry my 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.680 eyes out because I imagined I thought the situation was 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:17.880 not normal, that it was not going to end well. 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.240 I had an intuision. So when we learned from the 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.320 police that Frederick already done I don't know how many 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.640 swindles at that time, and I'd been in prison. What 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.440 I told myself at that point was how lucky we 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.760 were that she was still there, because she wouldn't have survived. 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.760 So we put things into perspective. We were relieved because 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:38.720 it was a close call. 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.480 What do you hope happens from this? What would you 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.200 like to see happen to Rick Blum? 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.360 That he would be found guilty and that he would 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.920 finish his days in prison. That would be a big 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.200 relief that we would all feel. 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:53.880 Well if enough people come forward, potentially. 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.360 Of course, and that's why we've contacted you. That's what 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.400 I hope is thanks to the media, maybe we can 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:00.200 change things. 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.840 Does she know much more about the other case she mentioned. 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.600 Yes, so she can probably tell you herself, but the 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.120 police contacted her a few years after because a woman 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.880 from Tulnay, a town in Belgium an hour away from here, 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:18.160 followed Frederick on a trip. Frederick made sure she wouldn't 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.760 tell anything to her family, so the family didn't know anything, 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.360 and so she found herself in Bali on her own. 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.359 I don't know the details, but I know you abandoned 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.960 her there and afterwards she had to get back without 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.840 any money, without a phone, without anything. So it was 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:40.760 local people who helped her contact Belgium. She apparently had 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.480 to borrow money from family members just to be able 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.680 to pay a flight back, and she finally complained to 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:47.240 the police. 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.000 The other thing is when she contacted crime Stocks in Australia. 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:55.120 So what response has she gotten so far? 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.520 I received a message of confirmation from them stating that 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.560 they received my message. What I know is when I 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.760 went to the police here in Belgium, they had missigned 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.240 a document that a test that I did submit the testimony, Okay, 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:14.200 I not victim? Do I strongly encourage all the victims 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.040 to talk about it, because well, of course there would 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:18.920 be a shame to have full in for his show. 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.800 I can imagine that it would be very difficult to 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.640 talk about it, but it would be worth it, and 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.920 it's important to understand that in this case he's a 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.640 professional swindler, even a killer maybe, although we have improved 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:35.560 it yet, there's no shame in talking about it. He 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.840 knows how to manipulate and he could happen to anyone. 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.360 There's no reason not to talk about it. By talking 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.280 about it, it will help the victims, it will help 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:49.480 the investigation to progress. The benefit justifies the cost. 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.560 We have also reached out to Alexandra's mother in law, Julain, 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.400 but had to wait until she returned home to France. 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.520 The different time zones are also proving a bit of 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:09.320 a hurdle, but she'll be in our next episode. However, 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.199 our colleagues at the Luxembourg Word, Tom and Yannick have 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:19.040 sat down with Gulaine and reported her story with their permission. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.000 Here's some of what she told them. 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.280 The journalists met with Julayne in early November in a 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:30.440 restaurant in the south of Brussels. Tom and Jiannik described 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:34.639 Julayne as young for her years, sharp, quick witted and 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:39.640 with a clear memory. Before she retired, she was an 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:44.440 insurance agent with about five hundred clients. She raised four 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.800 children and has been a widow since the age of fifty. 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.720 In hindsight, she struggles to understand why she believed in 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:55.080 Frederick de Headeberry at all. 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:59.720 She tells Tom and Yannick, I'm not supers and never have, 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:05.320 and yet I believed everything this man said. She caught 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:10.240 me at an awkward moment. I wasn't twelve, I was lonely, 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.960 and he took advantage of that. I was like the bird. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:21.760 To the camp, she brought correspondence from police at the 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.360 time and a photo of Frederic de Heteravari from around 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:29.960 the early two thousands. The image is a close up 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.840 of his smiling face. It's clearly the man we've seen 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:39.760 outside the courthouse in Byron Bay, although obviously younger. His 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.800 hair is white and overgrown. He's wearing glasses and at 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:49.440 first glance, appears quite feminine. This is how Jilaine describes 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:50.080 how they met. 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.959 I had placed a personal ad in a little paper 0:18:55.080 --> 0:19:00.320 called Lamb and received many letters. I like he's the best, 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:06.720 a long, inspired letter in French, beautiful handwriting, not spelling mistakes. 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.199 So we arranged to meet and he told me about himself. 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.480 He wanted to marry me in Bali and emigrate from 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.639 there to Australia. He said he had a big house 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.680 there and a good job in the management of a bank. 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.000 He saw that loving my four children was my weakness, 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.879 and so he told me, with my money, he would 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.080 set up an Australian account for each of my children, 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:34.280 because surely they would visit. 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:43.040 Juliane trusted him, closed her savings account, sold her car, 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:50.760 and gave him the money around seventy thousand euro. She 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.440 also sold her house, but never handed over the proceeds 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:59.120 because by that stage she had doubts. However, other valuables 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:03.320 also witnessing. When Julane was packing up her house, Frederic 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.080 de Heavy provided boxes that he wanted to be packed 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:10.160 up urgently and sent to Australia. Julane's daughter in law 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:14.080 remembers the silver cutlery service having to go in the box, 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.760 and Julaine told the Luxembourg Word newspaper that her wedding 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.440 ring had to go into the box because Frederic de 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.800 Heavery told her that continuing to wear it would bring 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:29.320 bad luck to the new relationship. And as for the 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.400 beautifully written love letter that he had penned to Julane 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.880 in response to her lonely hearts ad all that went 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:38.760 into the box too. This is what she had to 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:39.479 say about that. 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.080 He said, we'll have a friend over our bed. 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:48.120 In Australia, Julaine told Tom and Yannick that the head 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.720 of Barry was very good at covering his tracks. 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.600 Once we were on the gate with friends of mine, 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.840 footos were taken that he was also in. He asked 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.200 if he could see the camera, and during that chance 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:03.119 the pictures were then gone. 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:09.320 Jelaine also noticed that some financial documents and the valuable 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.640 watch that had belonged to her late brother went missing 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:18.840 after d'headeveri had spent time alone in her apartment. She 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:23.000 then reveals that she was intimidated by d'headaveri. He was 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:27.960 physically superior, tall and strong, and looking back, she feels 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:29.359 lucky she is alive. 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.440 She sent me to the hospital to have a nottral 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:33.440 sound of the liver. 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.360 My liver was always fine, that's what the doctor said. 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:44.280 To He insisted a way. I think he wanted to 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:44.840 poison me. 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:52.359 Remember, Jelayne's daughter in law Alexandra, told police that Frederic 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.959 d'heveri had spoken extensively about his knowledge of poisons the 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:00.560 first time they met, and when packing up Jean's home, 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:03.840 he was very interested in a book about poisons that 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:09.760 kill without a trace. She went to police around the 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.640 twelfth or thirteenth of September in two thousand and six 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:15.320 because he failed to show up at a family dinner 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.840 and she was worried about him as he was meant 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:21.439 to be in Amsterdam and carrying a large sum of cash. 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.000 Some time later, Jelaine said she saw him on the 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:30.080 street in Brussels, but he disappeared into a crowded chocolate store. 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:36.080 After that chance encounter, Frederic de Hedivery apparently called Julaine 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:39.760 and threatened her with words to the effect of if 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:42.520 I hear from you ever again, you will see what 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:48.280 you will get. There will be hell to pay. Jelaine 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:51.760 waited some years before officially reporting her case to authorities 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:55.000 because she was so embarrassed and could only talk about 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:57.840 it after her lawyer made it clear that she had 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:03.760 been the victim of a professional. But the story doesn't 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:08.199 end there. In twenty thirteen, Julane said she was contacted 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:12.119 by police in Tournay, Belgium. That's the birthplace of Rick Blum, 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:16.520 because another woman had reported being swindled after he promised 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:22.600 to marry her in Bali, she went with him to Berlin. 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:27.040 She left her there with ammonia papers. She had to 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:29.600 see for herself how to get back to Belgium. 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:34.639 Julaine doesn't have any details on how much money he 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:38.520 allegedly took from this other woman, but another journalist, a 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:41.439 colleague of Tom and Yannick, is in Tournay trying to 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:46.040 track her down. Additionally, Julaine has a handwritten page from 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:49.520 the Belgian police of all of Rick Blum's pseudonyms, and 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:53.480 she also has the name of another of his alleged victims, 0:23:54.320 --> 0:24:00.000 one that you'll know, Janet Oldenburg from Australia, which Belgium 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:05.080 police also have. Now that she has come to terms 0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:08.359 with what happened to her sixteen years ago, Gulaine wants 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:10.240 to share her story widely. 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:16.040