Speaker 1: Welcome to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris and
Speaker 1: on this podcast I'll be going behind the scenes with
Speaker 1: the biggest players in television today. On the podcast, I
Speaker 1: have executive producer Alex Mavertaikas, who has been making some
Speaker 1: of the biggest and best reality shows in Australia. He
Speaker 1: successfully rebooted Big Brother for Channel nine and twenty twelve.
Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, he took over as the EP on
Speaker 1: Channel ten's I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here.
Speaker 1: He also brought Love Island to Australia in twenty eighteen
Speaker 1: for Channel nine. Up next, he'll take on the Cube
Speaker 1: with Andy Lee for Channel ten in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1: So let's get started with some exclusive content as we
Speaker 1: find out how these shows get made.
Speaker 2: What I tried to bring to Big Brother. It's time
Speaker 2: to go what's fun and funny.
Speaker 1: I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out?
Speaker 2: I think it's what I've brought to one a Celebrity.
Speaker 1: Tonight we are recoupling.
Speaker 2: One of Love on as well. Actually, some one unfortunately
Speaker 2: is going to be dumb from the Island. We take
Speaker 2: the piss out of ourselves and I think the audience
Speaker 2: appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I want to start the show by saying to you,
Speaker 1: thank you for casting me my big brother all those
Speaker 1: years ago. That's a pleasure paid off for me, which
Speaker 1: was great, so.
Speaker 2: Paid off for us as well, if I remember correctly.
Speaker 1: I love hearing stuff like that. So big brother, Love Island, celebrity,
Speaker 1: get me out of here. You have launched, rebooted, and
Speaker 1: revitalized some of the biggest shows. What can you say
Speaker 1: that you do that is a part of the Alex
Speaker 1: Maverdicker's brand.
Speaker 2: Funny Funny wins every single time. I think. Look, it's
Speaker 2: so hard to say because when you comedian says you know,
Speaker 2: oh you know, I'm funny, the first thing people says
Speaker 2: is all make me laugh, and I have no ability
Speaker 2: to make you laugh right here and right now. But
Speaker 2: I do think I'm quite funny. I think it's what
Speaker 2: I've brought to I'm a celebrity. With the casting, with
Speaker 2: the trials that we do. We don't play it as
Speaker 2: straight as the Brits. We try and make everything funny,
Speaker 2: and I'm pretty sure it's what have done for Love
Speaker 2: Island as well, because you know, Loveland is actually a
Speaker 2: love quest and it is all three of those shows,
Speaker 2: certainly under my watch, were very real, all three of
Speaker 2: them as honest as reality TV gets. You know, there
Speaker 2: really is no script in as you know, we never
Speaker 2: tell you what to say. But they've all got a
Speaker 2: very rich vein of humor in them. And you know,
Speaker 2: I've always believed that if you can make people laugh
Speaker 2: at seven thirty or eight thirty or whatever time the
Speaker 2: shows are on, yeah, just to be funny and you know,
Speaker 2: and be honest with your audience as well. Everything is
Speaker 2: so over dramatized in this day and age, you know,
Speaker 2: and I think certainly with our celebrity we take the
Speaker 2: piss out of ourselves and I think the audience appreciate that.
Speaker 2: You know, it's the one show that we I love
Speaker 2: Onland as well. Actually we are very self mocking.
Speaker 1: Do you think that, you know, the heads of the
Speaker 1: studios think we'll get Oles to do this because that's
Speaker 1: what he's going to bring. He's going to bring family
Speaker 1: friendly fun.
Speaker 2: That is what I bring. I'm very one dimensional character. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, there's no smoke and mirrors. You know what
Speaker 2: you're going to get if you're booking Alex as the EP,
Speaker 2: You're going to get stupid humor.
Speaker 1: Well, this isn't one of my questions. But one of
Speaker 1: the things that I remember about Big Brother and the
Speaker 1: casting was that once it was over, we were finally
Speaker 1: allowed to talk about, you know, the casting process and
Speaker 1: how it all was. You could swap your stories, and
Speaker 1: I honestly think that everyone had somehow fallen in love
Speaker 1: with you, which obviously is the power of a good producer.
Speaker 1: And I guess you have to create this friendship, you know,
Speaker 1: with people to that level so they trust you, and
Speaker 1: then once the show goes, that just has to exist.
Speaker 2: I guess, well, you said the key word is trust. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm very lucky because I've never had to make very
Speaker 2: manufactured reality, and it could have gone a very different way.
Speaker 2: I don't hold anything against any of the people that
Speaker 2: I know very very well that have to work on
Speaker 2: a lot of the other shows that are clearly more structured,
Speaker 2: clearly more manipulated. But I've been very, very lucky in
Speaker 2: that I can look the housemates that I've had, the
Speaker 2: Islanders that I've had, and the celebrities that I've had
Speaker 2: under my watch and those shows, and I've been able
Speaker 2: to say to all of them, you can trust me,
Speaker 2: and they can because we don't frank and grab. We
Speaker 2: don't play people as the baddies or the goodies on
Speaker 2: those twenty four hour turnaround shows, which let's not forget
Speaker 2: all three of them. Big Brother Under my Watch was
Speaker 2: a twenty four hour show turn around show. Loveland is celebrities.
Speaker 2: We don't have time to play demonic music under somebody
Speaker 2: to you know, make them the baddie.
Speaker 1: We don't have grab what they call frank and grab
Speaker 1: Frank frank you know which reality TV shows. Now people
Speaker 1: are coming to terms with the fact that, you know,
Speaker 1: it is a very different style of show once you're
Speaker 1: manipulating the audience.
Speaker 2: We have a WhatsApp group me and some of the
Speaker 2: other producers, and you know, you watch the reality sho
Speaker 2: on TV and you just go frank and grab, frank
Speaker 2: and grabbing, because you know, whenever you're not watching someone's.
Speaker 1: Lips, yeah, you can get them to just pretty.
Speaker 2: Much as are. It's frank and grabbed. But anyway, luckily
Speaker 2: we've never had to do that, and we don't have time.
Speaker 2: Christ I'd love to have the time to manipulate some
Speaker 2: of the storylines, but when you're cutting a show overnight,
Speaker 2: the only editorial control you've got is okay. There's two
Speaker 2: bend scenes today. Both are very funny. We're not going
Speaker 2: to have ben in twice in one segment. Which one
Speaker 2: should we chuck out? Yeah, that is the editing process.
Speaker 1: You know, we are right at the cusp of the
Speaker 1: next time a celebrity get me out of here, and
Speaker 1: I know you're going to tell me that you can't
Speaker 1: tell me really anything, can't tell you anything. You know,
Speaker 1: we're friends and we've sort of spoken offline about that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. He said that it is a fantastic
Speaker 1: series and that you've captured a lot that you probably
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to capture if it was turning
Speaker 1: around quickly, which is great. So everyone is prepared for
Speaker 1: this to be a good series. But you'll go back
Speaker 1: to Africa, you'll go back to doing it live.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm a Celebrities is a twenty four hour
Speaker 2: turnaround show. It's only the circumstances of the universe as
Speaker 2: to why it's not been done this way this time.
Speaker 2: It's a hard one because so let's use the British
Speaker 2: om celebrity as an example. They filmed their version in
Speaker 2: a castle and they managed to keep their twenty four
Speaker 2: hour turnaround. But what that meant for them was that
Speaker 2: at Deck would host the show at nine o'clock at night,
Speaker 2: whatever time it was in the UK live to air,
Speaker 2: they do their trial at eleven o'clock midnight, sure, and
Speaker 2: the celebrities will be up till five six o'clock in
Speaker 2: the morning to make the content for tomorrow's show and
Speaker 2: then they'd sleep all day. Now they can get away
Speaker 2: with that because they're in a castle which has got
Speaker 2: lights and stuff. We can't do that because we're in jungle,
Speaker 2: so the entire show would be, you know, in the dark.
Speaker 2: So when COVID hit and it was clear we couldn't
Speaker 2: go to Africa, we talked. We had all sorts of
Speaker 2: crazy ideas, all sorts of mental stuff you know where
Speaker 2: you know where we could should and have we get
Speaker 2: away with it. But one thing you can't get away
Speaker 2: with this is a time zone. Clearly, we had shoot
Speaker 2: it in Australia and it's worked and you see, you'll
Speaker 2: see on January third that I'm pretty confident it's going
Speaker 2: to work.
Speaker 1: You're always pretty confident, do you know what you don't
Speaker 1: want to sound?
Speaker 2: I know because if we launched a four hundred thousand
Speaker 2: and then this goes to airing to look like a dick.
Speaker 1: So I don't think you should be worried about that,
Speaker 1: because if you look at the ratings that you've always
Speaker 1: delivered on opening nights, and before I got here, I
Speaker 1: went back and had to look at the launches of
Speaker 1: your first Big Brother Love Ireland and your first time
Speaker 1: a celebrity launch night is your thing, and I guess
Speaker 1: with the nature of all shows, you're obviously going to
Speaker 1: have a dip. But I think that you're just probably
Speaker 1: nervous thinking are we going to keep these a secret?
Speaker 2: You're always well, well, let's put that to one side
Speaker 2: for a second, but always nervous about the launch, and
Speaker 2: you always think, is this the year when it's going
Speaker 2: to get down the toilet? It doesn't matter how good
Speaker 2: it is. Free tow are television ratings are eroding January third,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people still away on holiday. Sure
Speaker 2: the sun will be shining. It's very likely in all
Speaker 2: the major cities across Australia. I was shitting my pants
Speaker 2: last year on the fifth of January when they launched
Speaker 2: on Celebrity Season six, and when the ratings came back
Speaker 2: and you know it did I think nine hundred and
Speaker 2: ninety thousand or something and well over a million when
Speaker 2: they added up everything else, the sense of euphour. It
Speaker 2: was incredible because it was a game of that paid off.
Speaker 2: So with doubling down, hopefully it works again. There's very
Speaker 2: little competition at that time of the year. You know,
Speaker 2: it's if you don't like sport, you're with us. But yes,
Speaker 2: going back to your point about launch show, yes, I'm
Speaker 2: very much I've always had a very very set methodology
Speaker 2: on how to make a strip to reality show launch
Speaker 2: obviously as hard as possible, strong as possible, with a
Speaker 2: you know, either a twist or something interesting to drag
Speaker 2: people through that episode, because generally those episodes are ninety
Speaker 2: minutes already one hundred and twenty minutes. You've got to
Speaker 2: drag people through, you've got to make them fall in
Speaker 2: love with the cast. And actually episodes two and three
Speaker 2: in my mind as important as the launch because if
Speaker 2: you don't lose more than let's say, twenty five percent
Speaker 2: of your audience into night two, you generally got a
Speaker 2: hit show. If you look at all of the arms celebs,
Speaker 2: you go episode one and clearly goes down, then it
Speaker 2: goes down a bit more, then it goes down a
Speaker 2: bit more, and then you generally get a bounce on
Speaker 2: either the first week Thursday or the second week Sunday.
Speaker 1: And that's all dictated by those ensecutive second and third
Speaker 1: episode being strong.
Speaker 2: Exactly right, because if you can make them fall in
Speaker 2: love with the cast, then you've got them, and then
Speaker 2: you care if people go. It's the same methodolog you're
Speaker 2: used on Big Brother and the same way usual love zol.
Speaker 2: If you care where the celebrities are housemates get evicted, eliminated, dumped,
Speaker 2: then you come and watch and if you don't care,
Speaker 2: then you won't. But you've got to launch strong. That
Speaker 2: that's the whole ball game.
Speaker 1: So, talent agents, studio bosses, publicity managers, where does the
Speaker 1: most amount of celebrity contestant requests come from? Because I
Speaker 1: know that I ask you every year and you say
Speaker 1: go away, yeah, and that's fine, But I can imagine
Speaker 1: there is a lot of requests. And I think I
Speaker 1: even heard a rumor that you might have done something
Speaker 1: over two hundred zooms to make sure the cast was
Speaker 1: right this year. You know, how are these people coming
Speaker 1: to you?
Speaker 2: I should have a zoom T shirt. If there's a
Speaker 2: celebrity in Australia but you haven't been on a zoom with, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I haven't been on a zoom with well, you know,
Speaker 2: let's let go. I'm going to say as tactors account,
Speaker 2: let's say from B listed downwards, if the celebrity in
Speaker 2: Australia I haven't had a zoom with, then I'd be
Speaker 2: very surprised.
Speaker 1: Does that mean that you're like a complete slot for that?
Speaker 2: And I've spoken to people who their mothers, they know
Speaker 2: who they are. You know, let's not forget the casting
Speaker 2: from a slab is it's a tongue in cheek show.
Speaker 2: We put Justin Lacko on the show who Was? Did
Speaker 2: one half a series of Love on on a digital
Speaker 2: channel on Channel nine and the freedom are audience that
Speaker 2: you know, the broad Channel ten audience went who an
Speaker 2: hour later they're like, we love him.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I mean that's but what you do
Speaker 1: with Lorena Flour. There's been lots of people that maybe
Speaker 1: other networks hadn't seen a lot of them.
Speaker 2: Even Charlotte Crosby. We put Charlotte Crosby in and I
Speaker 2: couldn't believe it because you know, she's got you know,
Speaker 2: eleven million followers or whatever it is, and is world
Speaker 2: famous reality star and all you read on Facebook, Twitter,
Speaker 2: Instagram is who's this? Every single year we're going to
Speaker 2: cop the same shit, Yeah, every single year. Yeah, they're
Speaker 2: not real celebrities.
Speaker 1: No, when we get it, you just have to laugh
Speaker 1: at that kind of stuff because they obviously don't understand
Speaker 1: the brand. But also more importantly, they aren't the people
Speaker 1: to watch the show.
Speaker 2: Well they're not, but look, having said that, we always
Speaker 2: want a certain level of fame and certainly our show
Speaker 2: is more famous than the British show would say they're
Speaker 2: they're casting methodold who has always been two household names
Speaker 2: and you know.
Speaker 1: And the rest have to be batshit crazy.
Speaker 2: Well well you know I've slept with awayn Rooney basically.
Speaker 2: But again it absolutely works in their twentieth year, you know,
Speaker 2: it absolutely works. So we've kind of changed our casting
Speaker 2: tactics after I think the series two or Series three,
Speaker 2: where we you know, we would clearly go for the
Speaker 2: most famous people we could get.
Speaker 1: There was a waste of money. I mean, yes, the
Speaker 1: ratings are there, like you can pay Shane Warn a
Speaker 1: million dollars, but at the same time, the ratings didn't
Speaker 1: really get affected too much to then go and get
Speaker 1: your Sam Dastra.
Speaker 2: Shane Warn actually wasn't a waste of money. I'll tell
Speaker 2: you why because Series one was just you know, a bomb.
Speaker 2: Slipper was on the cusp. You know, it just about
Speaker 2: did enough, sure just about did enough for people to
Speaker 2: be talking about it. It needed a prestige name for
Speaker 2: series two to drag people back into the format, and
Speaker 2: we put Warning in on episode two. So going back
Speaker 2: to what I was saying the minute and go, we
Speaker 2: teased him through the launch. We put him in episode two,
Speaker 2: and I think launched a one point one million and
Speaker 2: episode two today on hundred ninety or nine hundred thousand
Speaker 2: or something. And then you're of from running. There's a
Speaker 2: million dollars right there. It's just paid for himself, you
Speaker 2: know as well.
Speaker 1: I think what you do is you format your cast
Speaker 1: really well. I think that you always managed to pick,
Speaker 1: whether it's intentional, your your stereotype characters. You know, your
Speaker 1: heroes and your villains. I mean they are always PG
Speaker 1: heroes and villains on your show, of course, but how
Speaker 1: do you whittle it down like say you do two
Speaker 1: hundred zooms and then you you've got to sit down.
Speaker 1: Do you sit down with like Stephen Tate and Bev
Speaker 1: McGarvey and try and pitch them or.
Speaker 2: Yep, it's very very collaborative, is exactly. It's Bevlyn McGarvey,
Speaker 2: It's Daniel Monaghan, Stephen Tate from ten Side. There's also
Speaker 2: a casting person we had Georgie Harrop this season who
Speaker 2: was on ten Sides. So that's four from Channel ten
Speaker 2: from it TV. This David Mott who's my boss, Beth
Speaker 2: Heart who's our head of content, Ben Olm who's head
Speaker 2: of Factual in Reality, myself, my Coey p Rema. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know that's nine or ten names I've reamed off.
Speaker 2: It's not a simple process. I'm the one who does
Speaker 2: most of the calls and most of the first line chats.
Speaker 2: But then, I mean we would have had sixty seventy
Speaker 2: names seriously in the mix for this year, and that
Speaker 2: is not an exaggeration.
Speaker 1: At the very end, Like, how do you get it
Speaker 1: down to that time?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean there's absolutely everything you would expect that
Speaker 2: you have to do in casting any show. We've got
Speaker 2: to check off diversity. Well, you know, we've got to
Speaker 2: check off fame, We've got to check off funny, we've
Speaker 2: got to check off headlines things. But then there's something
Speaker 2: that you can't there's no subcategory for the X factor is.
Speaker 2: It's such a horrible, horrible cliche. But when you talk
Speaker 2: to somebody, you just know. And I love having people
Speaker 2: on I'm a Celebrity that are tried and tested reality
Speaker 2: talent Lorena Justin Ash Pollard for people that have done
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 1: So COVID was a big player in the industry. How
Speaker 1: did it all play out when planning this series? I mean,
Speaker 1: at some point did it nearly not happen?
Speaker 2: Oh? One hundred percent. I mean, let's rewind to I'm
Speaker 2: talking to you and you now in my kitchen on
Speaker 2: the Gold Coast. I have basically not left the Gold
Speaker 2: Coast since February twenty twenty. I landed from Johannesburg on
Speaker 2: February the eighth from doing I'm a Celebrity Series six,
Speaker 2: ready to do another full year in Sydney, you know,
Speaker 2: with Love Island and some development stuff I'm going on
Speaker 2: and you know, getting ready for the next IIC. I
Speaker 2: have not been to Sydney in twenty twenty, which is
Speaker 2: absolute madness. I'm Platinum Virgin, Platinum quantus. I live on planes.
Speaker 2: I have not been anywhere. We just filmed on a
Speaker 2: celebrity in my Woolen bar, which is forty five minutes
Speaker 2: from where we're talking now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't want to tell them where you live.
Speaker 2: That's practically the furthest away I've been from home since
Speaker 2: February twenty twenty. I mean, yes, it was. It was
Speaker 2: very worrying. I mean, you know, we were fighting hard
Speaker 2: for Africa for you know, a nanosecond. It looked like
Speaker 2: we might be able to happen, and then of course
Speaker 2: it just exploded and it was like, okay, Africa's off
Speaker 2: the table. How we're going to how we're going.
Speaker 1: To do this? Can I ask, though, what other locations were.
Speaker 2: Considered serious incident? None? Nothing else except that I absolutely
Speaker 2: did a blanket ideas brain dump. And we did talk
Speaker 2: about a castle by the way, before the Brits decided.
Speaker 2: We talked about, you know, is there a castle in
Speaker 2: Australia somewhere? You know. We talked about caravan parks. Yeah,
Speaker 2: We've talked about dilapidated old kind of factories. We talked
Speaker 2: about prisons. You know, abandoned prisons. We had all sorts
Speaker 2: of you know.
Speaker 1: That what would have been you would have got that
Speaker 1: headline though I'm a celebrity and warehouse, which is what
Speaker 1: happened with Big Brother and a warehouse and you want
Speaker 1: to avoid that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1: People are really excited about it being here in Australia.
Speaker 1: I really do think there's a coup for that. I
Speaker 1: heard today from a source from England that they won't
Speaker 1: be coming back to Australia. They're very happy with the
Speaker 1: way the production happened.
Speaker 2: Well, it rated, Look, it absolutely rated. Whether that was
Speaker 2: because everyone was in lockdown or not. Look, I don't
Speaker 2: know about that. My gut feeling is that they will
Speaker 2: come back, but based that on nothing like I've got
Speaker 2: no evidence of that. I'm spoken to anyone about it.
Speaker 2: But you know, their whole show for nineteen years, the
Speaker 2: whole stick has been the Aussie bush and bugs and stuff,
Speaker 2: you know. And I think it'd be terrible for Australia
Speaker 2: if they didn't come back, because obviously it's such a
Speaker 2: bit of money spinner for that area. But yes, COVID
Speaker 2: was shit for a lot of television.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about pre recorded TV? Shows, So like
Speaker 1: reality TV now for you, you were forced into that, but
Speaker 1: Big Brother had already done it before COVID. So look,
Speaker 1: a lot of reality TV shows are following the format
Speaker 1: of the contestants eliminate themselves. Do you think that that
Speaker 1: is realistically the way forward and not your decision because
Speaker 1: I know you don't want to do it that way,
Speaker 1: But are you thinking that you're going to get stronghold
Speaker 1: into doing that because of the production cost being cheaper
Speaker 1: and it being an easier series to produce financially.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely makes sense. It depends what sort of show
Speaker 2: you want to make. We took nominations and off the
Speaker 2: table from a celebrity straight away because okay, so let's
Speaker 2: talk about you know, Old Big Brother versus New Big Brother,
Speaker 2: and I'm not I'm not going to be drawn into
Speaker 2: any comparisons. But apart from the fact that Old Big Brother,
Speaker 2: you couldn't talk about nominations. Yeah, so that basically meant
Speaker 2: that what you got was talking about your life and
Speaker 2: talking about other people's lives and.
Speaker 1: Taking the strategy out funny stories.
Speaker 2: So there was no strategy because that you can't really
Speaker 2: play a game because you can't discuss nominations. Yes, you know,
Speaker 2: you can internalize and go, I think Ben's going to
Speaker 2: nominate Michael and therefore w and nominate Michael two and
Speaker 2: all that stuff, but.
Speaker 1: Never nominated mine.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was a game, but it was you know,
Speaker 2: really it was an entertainment show with the kind of
Speaker 2: the subplot of the game because you can't talk about nominations,
Speaker 2: and of course New Big Brother is you know, it's
Speaker 2: all about nominations, and that's that's the key point actually,
Speaker 2: you know, more prevalent than it pre recorded versus twenty
Speaker 2: four hour turnaround is you can't talk about nominations, you
Speaker 2: can talk about nominations. That is a completely different show
Speaker 2: in my mind. So we took strategy talk off the
Speaker 2: table for IC straight away for this series, right because
Speaker 2: we didn't want them talking about strategy, because the joy
Speaker 2: of I'm a Celebrity is heart, heroes and humor one hundred.
Speaker 2: We want celebrity gossip, we want funny pranks, we want
Speaker 2: that is the show, and the audience choose the winner. Now,
Speaker 2: luckily we've been able to come up with a solution
Speaker 2: to that thing. The audience will of course still choose
Speaker 2: the winner. And I think we as you'll see in
Speaker 2: January a very fair and fun way, you know, to
Speaker 2: eliminate contestants.
Speaker 1: But then I have to ask you this question. Producing
Speaker 1: so many of these series and having a sort of
Speaker 1: a tenacity to pick, you know, what audience would do
Speaker 1: versus what the internal decisions would be. Would you say
Speaker 1: that the final few, whether or not it's three or
Speaker 1: four or whatever ever I'm speculating at the moment, do
Speaker 1: you think it's the same as what Australia would have
Speaker 1: picked in.
Speaker 2: The end, maybe five or six of them? Maybe, look's
Speaker 2: impossible to say. Look, it's really difficult because on a
Speaker 2: reality show like Big Brother h I'm a celebrity, lot
Speaker 2: love old as the audience sitting on a couch, you
Speaker 2: want to be in charge of who is there at
Speaker 2: the end, and you want to be in charge of
Speaker 2: who wins. Circumstances of the universe have taken that ability
Speaker 2: away from us this year and it's a shame. But
Speaker 2: as I said, I think we've kind of a really
Speaker 2: fun and fair way of doing it, and I think
Speaker 2: we've got a fantastic group of finalists X number of finalists,
Speaker 2: And look, I like to think that Australia will be
Speaker 2: understanding of why it's made like it is, and I
Speaker 2: still think it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: With the format, we can't really give away too much,
Speaker 1: but I still need to ask you this question because
Speaker 1: you're very good with this sort of stuff where it
Speaker 1: comes down to teams, you know, rich house, poorhouse, or
Speaker 1: a divided wall. Are we going to see a stunt
Speaker 1: with the celebrities entering in a way we've never seen before.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's not rocket science, though, I think I'm a
Speaker 2: Celebrity is a very very simple show. The trials producers
Speaker 2: every day come to me and pitch these ideas, you know,
Speaker 2: and they're brilliant producers, but you know, they come to
Speaker 2: me and go, right, let's play this trial where they've
Speaker 2: got to go up here and then the other one
Speaker 2: goes down here, and then they've got to find these
Speaker 2: blocks and they've got to put them in here, and
Speaker 2: they've got to do this, and then they've got to
Speaker 2: go around the corner and then they've got to do that.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, no, let's just get them to go
Speaker 2: from there to there. Yeah, you know, I'm a Celebrity
Speaker 2: is so simple. The walk in strategy that we've got
Speaker 2: this year is different to something we've ever seen before.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the rumors that these celebrities are
Speaker 1: going in teams?
Speaker 2: Yes, it's what's what's happening? I mean, look, you know
Speaker 2: about being drawn on specifics. Separating celebrities into smaller groups
Speaker 2: is the best way to showcase them on a launch
Speaker 2: episode of a strip reality show because you meet them gradually.
Speaker 2: So let's argument sake, say they're split into two teams
Speaker 2: of five, which they're not. I'm just gonna use that
Speaker 2: as an example. You meet Team one, everybody will get
Speaker 2: their airtime because there's only five people, and then in
Speaker 2: segment four you meet another five. So not only is
Speaker 2: that drag the audience through to segment four because they
Speaker 2: still want to find out who the other five celebs are,
Speaker 2: but it also gives everybody their airtime, so by segment nine,
Speaker 2: you feel like you know who ten people are. Whereas
Speaker 2: the worst part of Old Big Brother, and I'm going
Speaker 2: way back to two thousand and one, two three, four
Speaker 2: five here is the doors would open and this cavalry
Speaker 2: charge of housemates would just pour into the house, and
Speaker 2: we're in the control and going who do we follow?
Speaker 2: What conversation do we isolate. You know, yes, you might
Speaker 2: have sixty cameras, but you can only record so many
Speaker 2: things that want, so you just have to go with
Speaker 2: the loudest person in the.
Speaker 1: Room, which was never the best content, never the best content.
Speaker 2: And I'm thinking back on it now, you know, hindsight's
Speaker 2: obviously a great thing. Why the hell did we do
Speaker 2: it like that? Why didn't we put you in one
Speaker 2: at a time, or two at a time or three
Speaker 2: at a time. I can't remember how we did it
Speaker 2: in the Secret series. I know that you came in
Speaker 2: on day two or three, if I remember correct.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you managed to come in and tell me in
Speaker 1: my hotel room that I wasn't going in on launch night.
Speaker 1: I tried to give you my face of I'm okay
Speaker 1: with that, and I could see it in your face,
Speaker 1: and you were like, this guy's going to crack the
Speaker 1: And then I got put in at one o'clock in
Speaker 1: the morning on a Wednesday night on day three.
Speaker 2: But I worked.
Speaker 1: But in now, knowing what I know about reality television,
Speaker 1: I kind of think it was a compliment because I
Speaker 1: was a bigger personality in some ways than other people.
Speaker 2: How did we do it that year?
Speaker 1: You put pretty much everyone in on first night, and
Speaker 1: then you put four more boys in the next two nights.
Speaker 1: So put two in the next night and two in
Speaker 1: the next and my bio video like my VT, what
Speaker 1: do you call them? There's a back story, your backstory.
Speaker 1: Mine was the most outrageous. Everyone else was really lovely, like, oh,
Speaker 1: work at a car yard, I love horses, and I go,
Speaker 1: and then you have me go. I'm the bitchiest person
Speaker 1: you'll ever meet. And basically the bedding odds were for
Speaker 1: me to win the show were at zero.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and I remember you survived the first elimination
Speaker 2: by the skin of your teeth.
Speaker 1: I've heard people tell me that story, not you, but
Speaker 1: I've heard people tell me that it was down to
Speaker 1: something like ninety votes or something particular.
Speaker 2: So look, I can't remember the specific numbers, but it
Speaker 2: was certainly it was you versus Bradley.
Speaker 1: And Ryan was hot, so I wasn't hot. Ryan was hot,
Speaker 1: and Bradley was really like a character. So I remember
Speaker 1: thinking that day, the only way I'm going to get
Speaker 1: out of this is to stunt something. So I don't
Speaker 1: even think I've ever spoken to about it, but I
Speaker 1: set up a stunt to make sure that my hair
Speaker 1: was butchered, so I butchered my I got tried to
Speaker 1: get George because I thought he was that he would
Speaker 1: be the worst to cut my hair, and he actually
Speaker 1: cut my hair and it made it look better, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. So then I rigged Stacy,
Speaker 1: and I don't think you know this, but I took
Speaker 1: the blade off that razor, so when she went to
Speaker 1: cut my hair, I knew it would butcher my hair.
Speaker 1: And so that whole response you saw was pre planned,
Speaker 1: and my response to it was so dramatic but fun.
Speaker 1: Had that had really happened to me, I would have
Speaker 1: cracked the shits, but instead I was in on the joke.
Speaker 1: That's very clever, except for the fact that when I
Speaker 1: went over and finally saw myself in the mirror, I
Speaker 1: realized I truly looked like simple Jack.
Speaker 2: And do you know what the interesting thing about hair?
Speaker 2: Hair cups of shaves are on twenty four hour television
Speaker 2: as a completely complete stitch you up, because it means
Speaker 2: you can't use any content from prior to that in
Speaker 2: the next days.
Speaker 1: Did I do that to here? I'm sorry, I can't.
Speaker 1: I just remember that my brother said to me it
Speaker 1: was like, had it not have happened, I would have
Speaker 1: gone home. So look, let's talk about some of the leaks,
Speaker 1: because you know, at the end of the day, this
Speaker 1: is an executive producer's worst nightmare that people are going
Speaker 1: to find out who's in there. How do you stop
Speaker 1: people like the uh, you know, the stunts getting in there,
Speaker 1: like maybe they'll come from the sky, or maybe they'll
Speaker 1: get a hike or the driver drives them in. You know,
Speaker 1: how do you stop those people from leaking them?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, look you can't. You've got to take it
Speaker 2: on trust. I mean everyone signs an NDA, sure, right,
Speaker 2: so yes, if you found out who has been leaking,
Speaker 2: yes you could go legal on their ass, of course.
Speaker 2: But we talked about trust before, sure, and we talked
Speaker 2: about trust with the cast. Well, I believe we have
Speaker 2: an even bigger trust with the crew. I surround myself
Speaker 2: on whatevery show idea with people that I trust implicitly
Speaker 2: and that are way better than I am at stuff
Speaker 2: because it makes me look good. And that comes right
Speaker 2: down to the drivers and the runners and the caterers
Speaker 2: and the unit. And you know, you always stand up
Speaker 2: at the start of the series and you say this
Speaker 2: show will ripe better if no one knows who this
Speaker 2: whole cast is. Of course, there's going to be some leaks,
Speaker 2: of course there are. Some of them will be correct,
Speaker 2: some of them will be wrong. You have got to
Speaker 2: wear that it might be the celebrity's fault. Celebrities have
Speaker 2: got to tell their agents. Their agents might tell their wives.
Speaker 2: The wives might tell their hairdressers. There's your leak. Who
Speaker 2: are going to blame for that? You can't do anything
Speaker 2: about it, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you also send out so many red herrings. Thanks.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting across the table from you, But you know
Speaker 1: I sit at home, like Angela Lansbury from Murdersery Road,
Speaker 1: trying to put all the pieces together, and I send
Speaker 1: you I think it's this person every year, and you're like,
Speaker 1: you never have confirmed any of them. I think sometimes
Speaker 1: I think I am good enough to read through the lines,
Speaker 1: but then I'm always wrong, so I realize I'm not.
Speaker 2: Look, I'm very protective with the cast. I'll never tell.
Speaker 2: I'll never tell anybody. My partner doesn't know who the
Speaker 2: cast are.
Speaker 1: Just are you joking?
Speaker 2: That just has no idea because he knows not to
Speaker 2: ask well, I will not tell anyone. And you know,
Speaker 2: do you know what, it's not the worst thing in
Speaker 2: the world of four or five names leak, but if
Speaker 2: you thirteen fourteen names leak, it's not ideal. Because I'm
Speaker 2: celebrity trades on who are the celebrities? And it's worked
Speaker 2: six times out of six. We've never had a bad
Speaker 2: launch figure and the promo campaign is always who's going
Speaker 2: into the African jungle? This year is just going into
Speaker 2: Australian jungle. It works, so we would be mad to
Speaker 2: confirm or deny any names. Some of the rooms I've
Speaker 2: heard of right, some of the rooms I've heard of wrong. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was debating with Evie Jones yesterday. I was like,
Speaker 1: I swear that the ratings will be fine without you know,
Speaker 1: if people know that, will know who they are, and
Speaker 1: Evie was like no, She's like, you know it is.
Speaker 1: It does come down to the fact that we want
Speaker 1: to tune in and watch and find out her.
Speaker 2: It'd be interesting to see how the Celebrity Apprentice launches.
Speaker 2: Sure you know.
Speaker 1: It's again not launching it up against yours. You won't
Speaker 1: even know it'll happen after.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, be happening way after, like, you know, we
Speaker 2: don't have any reality competition in early January. I think,
Speaker 2: you know, thank god, thank god, a renowned chef's going
Speaker 2: the younger.
Speaker 1: He's gonna cook up a stark Wait till he finds
Speaker 1: out what we're cooking up there here. I don't want
Speaker 1: to talk about whether it did or it didn't happen.
Speaker 1: The one thing I wanted to ask you about this,
Speaker 1: because it's just never really been confirmed, is did you
Speaker 1: think that Pete Evans, with all that controversy, would be
Speaker 1: a good contestant, Like, let's not talk about whether it
Speaker 1: did or I didn't.
Speaker 2: Well, look, there's absolute zero confirmation that Pete Evans was
Speaker 2: ever anything to do with I'm a celebrity, So I'm commentating.
Speaker 2: I'm commenting on this from the perspective of someone who
Speaker 2: reads Facebook and Twitter. Yeah, from a headline grabbing point
Speaker 2: of view. The hack producer in me says, one hundred
Speaker 2: percent put him in.
Speaker 1: But then did you change your mind by thinking, you know,
Speaker 1: let's talk about it in the future. Maybe you're working
Speaker 1: on a different show that celebrity based. You know, do
Speaker 1: you see something controversial like that and is that a
Speaker 1: game changer?
Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's talk about sas sure, because when I
Speaker 2: saw that they had Chappelle Krby booked, I said straight away,
Speaker 2: this is going to launch massive and it's going to
Speaker 2: be a success. And then I read the social comments
Speaker 2: which was, I'm never going to watch a show. She's
Speaker 2: a criminal, she's not a celebrity. How day you Channel
Speaker 2: seven get this shit off the air? And of course,
Speaker 2: you know, launches at eight hundred and something thousand and
Speaker 2: has a very successful series. But no, look, there's there's
Speaker 2: a certain level of controversy. I think if someone just doubt,
Speaker 2: like I'd never have Katie Hopkins on the show in Australia.
Speaker 1: I love Katie Hopkins, like I hate it and I
Speaker 1: love it.
Speaker 2: She's great talent, yeah, great talent, but it just wouldn't
Speaker 2: wash in Australia, do you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 2: Perry's Hilton. We put in the jungle thinking, you know
Speaker 2: that he would bring a lot of celebrity gossip, which
Speaker 2: he did, thinking that he would be a different person
Speaker 2: to the person that went into the English Big Brother House.
Speaker 2: You know, in hindsight, probably wasn't the right fit for
Speaker 2: an Australian audience, you know, but it.
Speaker 1: Was a good way to test whether or not those
Speaker 1: sorts of names could bring something. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: things about the whole show is how many people gossip
Speaker 1: about how much the clebs get paid. And it's so
Speaker 1: funny because a friend of mine who did the show said, Ben,
Speaker 1: I can guarantee or I've never told anyone how much
Speaker 1: I got paid, And anyone that does this show would
Speaker 1: never tell anyone either. The celebrities who do it will
Speaker 1: tell you it was twice as much, and the people
Speaker 1: that loathe them all told them it was two dollars
Speaker 1: fifty correct.
Speaker 2: So I don't know what you do all of them.
Speaker 2: It's not even in my mind at all. You know.
Speaker 2: I know that clearly they've got a certain number of
Speaker 2: a certain dollar value in the kitty, and that's how
Speaker 2: much they have got to spend on the cast of
Speaker 2: that year. But hand on heart, I don't know what
Speaker 2: that dollar value is. I couldn't tell you what anybody
Speaker 2: has been paid that's done on a celebrity unless they've
Speaker 2: told me face to face. And I don't care because
Speaker 2: to me, whether it's been an atomical Shane Warren, who
Speaker 2: were clearly at the massively high end or at social
Speaker 2: media influencer or someone like that who is at the
Speaker 2: low end. All I care about who's going to give
Speaker 2: us the best content. I couldn't care less whether you're
Speaker 2: Kylie Minogu or Kylie Jones.
Speaker 1: You know, have you asked Kylie to do the show before?
Speaker 2: I probably everybody not personally.
Speaker 1: She was spinning around and ran away. A lot of
Speaker 1: people know who you are as a producer. If you
Speaker 1: can pass on a piece of advice to people who
Speaker 1: are wanting to step into your space creating content, what
Speaker 1: sort of advice do you have? I mean stepping away
Speaker 1: from just saying I need it to be funny.
Speaker 2: Yep, you've just said the C word, which is the word.
Speaker 2: So forget television because it's content now. Love Island is
Speaker 2: your classic example, doesn't rate very highly on television, but
Speaker 2: millions of people I've watched Australian Love Land, like millions,
Speaker 2: and that first series of Love Island now I think
Speaker 2: is up to nearly a billion YouTube views or something
Speaker 2: like that. That is such a good insanity.
Speaker 1: If anyone's listening to this right now, and I know
Speaker 1: you are, and you didn't see the first season of
Speaker 1: Love Island, even though you say you don't watch reality TV.
Speaker 1: It was addictive, was it was crack cocaine?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a pretty good series. And New York
Speaker 2: was fantastic placemake television. Okay, So look the advice is
Speaker 2: don't get hung up on the TV thing. Yes, of course. Look,
Speaker 2: I hope that free rate television is around for many
Speaker 2: many years to come and re TV certainly it is
Speaker 2: not going to die anytime soon. But you know, with
Speaker 2: streaming online digital short form stuff for social media, that's
Speaker 2: clearly the way forward. So content for anyone coming up.
Speaker 2: Content could be doing a ninety minute strip reality show,
Speaker 2: or could be doing a ninety second clip for Facebook,
Speaker 2: and you might end up making more money out of
Speaker 2: the ninety second clip. So just be very focused on
Speaker 2: you know what you're best at. If your funny, go
Speaker 2: for funny. If you're serious, go for serious. If you're
Speaker 2: massive into sport, go for sport, and just go single
Speaker 2: minded at what you are good at, and be very
Speaker 2: very driven and be prepared to work very hard and
Speaker 2: to hear no a lot. It's a really brutal industry.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's a brutal.
Speaker 2: Industry, and you've got to have a very very thick
Speaker 2: skin I don't know how.
Speaker 1: You did it, Like you've launched Big Brother and then
Speaker 1: you managed to get Love Island, I'm a celebrity. And
Speaker 1: then when we talk about your new show next year, yep.
Speaker 2: So I'm doing this show called The Cube with Andy
Speaker 2: Lee in filming in January or Go to War shortly
Speaker 2: after that. That's exciting.
Speaker 1: What is that show? I know it's in a format that.
Speaker 2: Basically it's games in a cube in a glass cube,
Speaker 2: so it's you know, big money on offer. You go
Speaker 2: in and you do games, which on the surface it
Speaker 2: looked relatively simple. Yeah, you know, catching a red ping
Speaker 2: pong ball in sorry, catching a white ping pong ball
Speaker 2: when there's a million red ping pong balls pouring out
Speaker 2: of a tube and you've only got one ball to catch,
Speaker 2: but it's white and all the rest of us so simple,
Speaker 2: you know, But when it's fifty grand on the line
Speaker 2: or something, it suddenly becomes very difficult. And Andy's the
Speaker 2: perfect choice as host. So I'm going down to do
Speaker 2: that in Sydney in January, and that's very exciting because
Speaker 2: the closest thing I've ever done to a game show
Speaker 2: is Friday Not Live, I'm Big Brother, which I can't
Speaker 2: believe we did that live. Still baffles me how the
Speaker 2: hell we survived doing that.
Speaker 1: But what a great show though. You know the fan
Speaker 1: base that goes out there for the style of I mean,
Speaker 1: Friday Night Games was really had a cult following and
Speaker 1: people still talk about that show.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think people like to be able to I think
Speaker 1: they feel involved. I think what this show sounds like
Speaker 1: to me is it's the opportunity to think, what would
Speaker 1: I do in that?
Speaker 2: Do you know what? That's exactly the best thing about
Speaker 2: the Cube is it it doesn't matter what shape, size,
Speaker 2: age you are an anybody can go in there, like
Speaker 2: everyone sat in a pub and flicked beer coasters, you know,
Speaker 2: at glasses and stuff like that, you know, and it's
Speaker 2: it's like that. It's very it's a very accessible show
Speaker 2: for everybody in this you know, go back to Fried
Speaker 2: not Live. But God, that was madness that we were
Speaker 2: doing games. No one does games live like I love games.
Speaker 2: I love trials on MOLB, I love tasks on Big Brother,
Speaker 2: I love the challenges and on love arnand don't do
Speaker 2: them live. That was a fucking stupid idea, always thinking,
Speaker 2: but somehow it worked. God blessed Mike Goldman and Fitzy
Speaker 2: and brief for just talking non stop post We've tried
Speaker 2: to set those games up.
Speaker 1: They were so good, a brilliant. Well, it's a fantastic
Speaker 1: career and you probably want just a quarterway through or
Speaker 1: halfway through, depending on how many cigarettes and coachs you have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd like to think I'm probably passed halfway now.
Speaker 2: But long, long, mate, continue of love. I've been very,
Speaker 2: very lucky, and that you know, I loved doing Big Brother.
Speaker 2: It was a real you know event in the show
Speaker 2: will be forever ever in my heart. Love Island is
Speaker 2: just you know, a riot and so much fun and
Speaker 2: just and.
Speaker 1: You move every show that you do pretty much close
Speaker 1: to home, so Love Island will be on the Gold Coast.
Speaker 2: But well we're hoping, you know, wen't found a villa yet,
Speaker 2: but we're looking. And I'm a celebrity. It's just, you know,
Speaker 2: I couldn't pick a more perfect show for me because
Speaker 2: it just is so self deprecating and that is that's
Speaker 2: me in a nutshell, you know, like I like to
Speaker 2: take the piece on of myself.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. That's like that. I think that's the charm.
Speaker 1: Last question I have for you something to end on
Speaker 1: a funny note. You know, when you're sitting around the
Speaker 1: table and you're talking, you know, dinner conversation, what's your
Speaker 1: go to funny story. After working on I'm a Celebrity,
Speaker 1: I Will, I will.
Speaker 2: How can I tell this story without putting the person
Speaker 2: in it? So there was a series where a celebrity
Speaker 2: told a story in camp about a girl that he
Speaker 2: had been with, and he talked about, it's so hard
Speaker 2: to tell this story. Everyone's gonna who I'm talking about. No,
Speaker 2: a celebrity in camp talked about a girl that he
Speaker 2: had been with, and he talked about specifics in terms
Speaker 2: of what he had been doing on that day, what
Speaker 2: time of the year it was, you know, blah blah.
Speaker 2: He then came running up to the tok toki straight
Speaker 2: after that conversation and was in the tok talky saying,
Speaker 2: it's okay for you to use that scene, but please
Speaker 2: don't say the time or the place, because I've just
Speaker 2: realized I was still married at the time. Basically, he
Speaker 2: just outed himself. So we then had to, you know,
Speaker 2: because again trust us, because why would we throw them
Speaker 2: under the bus. So we then had to go back
Speaker 2: and look at the scene and go, okay, if you
Speaker 2: take that but out, it takes out any kind of
Speaker 2: time stamping and now we can run.
Speaker 1: The scene as if you get dictated by these celebrities.
Speaker 2: Clearly we were in charge of what you know goeswere
Speaker 2: once that once they go in. But yeah, if someone
Speaker 2: goes in and tells the really a story which is
Speaker 2: going to negatively affect their career, why would we run it?
Speaker 2: Because we want them more to be heroes. But you know,
Speaker 2: they're all playing for charity. And as I said before,
Speaker 2: the more you love them, Ben, the show is going.
Speaker 1: To rate anyway. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1: I hope people really enjoyed getting to know you a
Speaker 1: little bit more from behind the scenes and some of
Speaker 1: your motivations. And can they check it? Can they follow
Speaker 1: you on Twitter? I'm following you and I just am
Speaker 1: always surprised that you don't have more followers.
Speaker 2: I Forgot've got nearly five thousand. That's pretty exciting. I
Speaker 2: don't even know what Twitter handle is well, is it
Speaker 2: one at Alex Mathrodocas.
Speaker 1: I guess Look, I follow you a lot, but I
Speaker 1: don't know your Twitter hand.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is. I think I'm at
Speaker 2: Alex Mathrodocers.
Speaker 1: I'll pop it at the end of the interview anyway, Cheers,
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 2: Thanks Bene,