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Speaker 1: Other amendments protecting the rights of Aboriginal landowners will passed

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Speaker 1: through Parliament last week. The amendment, which acknowledges the rights

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Speaker 1: of traditional owners to territory coasts, though leaves the industry

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Speaker 1: uncertain when it comes to access across the Northern Territory's waters.

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Speaker 1: So we know that concerns have indeed been raised about access,

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Speaker 1: but also about the Fisheries review and where things are

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Speaker 1: at when it comes to Blue Mud Bay. Now, we

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Speaker 1: spoke to the CEO of the Seafood Council last week,

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Speaker 1: we spoke to the CEO of AFANT yesterday, and we

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Speaker 1: also heard from the president of the king Ash Bay

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Speaker 1: Fishing Club who is also a business operator out there,

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Speaker 1: and all feel that there's been inadequate consultation with the industry,

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Speaker 1: leaving the future of their operations well hanging in the balance. Now,

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Speaker 1: the Minister for Fisheries, Paul Kirby, joins me on the

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Speaker 1: line right now. Good morning to you, Minister.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, morning everyone.

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Speaker 1: Now, Minister, why was this legislative amendment required last week?

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Speaker 2: So it's really I want to explain there's two trances

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Speaker 2: to this legislative changes. One was the one that was

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Speaker 2: done last week which purely and simply outlines the arrangements

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Speaker 2: that were clarified by the federal government many many years

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Speaker 2: ago and as an update to our act around that

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Speaker 2: and then ongoing and into next year will be a

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Speaker 2: review of the entire Fisheries Act, and that is the

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Speaker 2: broader consultation that will happen. That is certainly when we'll

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Speaker 2: be taking advice of the industry, and will be certainly

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Speaker 2: when we redesign the Act with better fit into whe

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Speaker 2: in today's modern world, and will certainly be consulting very

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Speaker 2: deeply and widely with people as that moves forward.

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Speaker 1: So, as the Minister for Fisheries, what do you think

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Speaker 1: that these changes mean for reck fishers and for industry

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Speaker 1: at this point?

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Speaker 2: So, as I mentioned, the changes that happened last week

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Speaker 2: were simply enshrining Indian Moman territory legislations and clarifying the

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Speaker 2: changes that have already happened about ownership of orders to

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Speaker 2: the low type market, all those relevant matters, a range

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Speaker 2: of negotiations that will continue to go as we move forward.

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Speaker 2: And as I said, that'll be with amateur fishows bodies,

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Speaker 2: with with our guided fishing tour operators, We met with

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Speaker 2: our ret Fishing Advisory Council yesterday to give them the

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Speaker 2: same assurances that they will absolutely be included in consultation

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Speaker 2: around the changes to the Act as we move forward

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Speaker 2: from this point on tape.

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Speaker 1: So I know that yesterday obviously, through those discussions that

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Speaker 1: we've had with our fan and also through the discussions

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Speaker 1: that we've had with the president of king ash Bay

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Speaker 1: Fishing Club, they are seriously concerned that they're not being

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Speaker 1: consulted with and that changes are going to move ahead

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Speaker 1: without that consultation happening. But from what you're saying to

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Speaker 1: me right now, when it comes to the review of

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Speaker 1: the Fisheries Act, those consultations haven't even started.

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Speaker 2: We've been on this journey. I guess it was probably

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Speaker 2: be about twenty eighteen when we signed a heads of

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Speaker 2: Agreement document down down at Catherine with everybody, with the

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Speaker 2: Northern Land Councils, with all of the peak fishing bodies

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Speaker 2: and agree that whilst we can't solve every problem for

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Speaker 2: every peak body, we're going to move forward together and

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Speaker 2: certainly as we move forward next year into redesigning the

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Speaker 2: Fisheries Act itself, everybody will be consoled and everybody will

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Speaker 2: be in the room. I can see why there's some

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Speaker 2: uncertainty and now often is around this and the NLC

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Speaker 2: do rightly negotiate on behalf of traditional loaners for access

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Speaker 2: and arrangements. We know that the NLC have got a

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Speaker 2: full council meeting in the next couple of weeks where

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Speaker 2: there'll be some decisions and announcements made from there. But

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Speaker 2: we're really confident that moving forward next year will all

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Speaker 2: do that together for the betterment of the industry going forward.

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Speaker 1: So in terms of the review, firstly, let's stick to that.

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Speaker 1: Where are things that or you know, when do you

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Speaker 1: anticipate that that genuine consultation is going to happen with

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Speaker 1: all of these different groups that it is going to impact,

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Speaker 1: I mean the Seafood Council and the likes of AFANT.

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Speaker 1: I would suspect very major stakeholders here and I know

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Speaker 1: that yesterday David Chirrovolo had told us on the show

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Speaker 1: that the other minister, Minister Ubo, who's obviously very much

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Speaker 1: involved in the negotiations with the Land Council, had said

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Speaker 1: that that who needs to be negotiated with, not these

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Speaker 1: other groups.

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Speaker 2: Well, so on the legislation that we passed last week.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely that is correct that they negotiated heavily with the

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Speaker 2: Northern Land Council because it was around enshrining those rights

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Speaker 2: that it had been dictated by the federal government many

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Speaker 2: years ago. As we move forward and all stakeholders need

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Speaker 2: to be at the table with actually exactly what will

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Speaker 2: happen and that will happen through the course of next year.

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Speaker 2: K We've got a really full legislative agenda, which means

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Speaker 2: getting all of our legislation done pretty tight timeline wise,

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Speaker 2: but we will certainly have everybody at the table when

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Speaker 2: we when we're doing those negotiations next year. And we

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Speaker 2: understand access arrangements are always a hot topic of discussion

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Speaker 2: here in the territory.

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Speaker 1: Just understand what what are nor what are recreational fishers

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Speaker 1: saying to you, because you are obviously the Minister for

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Speaker 1: Fisheries or the Minister for reck Fishing. What are those

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Speaker 1: you know, those people saying to you at this point

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Speaker 1: in time when it comes to their concerns around the

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Speaker 1: review but also around access to Northern Territory waterways.

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Speaker 2: Look, as in any negotiations and as you Okati, we've

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Speaker 2: got a Mountain of Enterprise Agreement negotiations on at the moment.

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Speaker 2: It's each party will have their positions and very easy

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Speaker 2: for the fishers to have their opinion and absolutely support that.

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Speaker 2: We do want to see access to as many areas

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Speaker 2: as possible through the Northern Territory. Absolutely, we want to

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Speaker 2: see that and that's my job is to advocate for

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Speaker 2: the fishows and workers closing with Selena's office and with

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Speaker 2: the Northern Land Council and make sure that they're the

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Speaker 2: deals that we can get done and land as many

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Speaker 2: of those access arrangements going forward as we can. It's

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Speaker 2: around protecting sacred sites for traditional loaners around you know,

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Speaker 2: can we set up extra ranger stations. How are were

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Speaker 2: going to monitor compliance in areas. How do we introduce

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal people into businesses and into you know, whether they

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Speaker 2: want to be tool guides or into the fishing industry

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Speaker 2: in some way, shape or form. There's a range of

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Speaker 2: things that we are concentrating on to make sure that

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Speaker 2: we get those negotiations done. Absolutely, we would be further

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Speaker 2: down the track if we hadn't had a couple of

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Speaker 2: years where we can't get out on the country. But

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Speaker 2: I know that they are. There are people from the

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Speaker 2: Chief Team that are pushing those negotiations to happen as

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Speaker 2: we speak.

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Speaker 1: All right, there is some serious concerns obviously from the

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Speaker 1: likes of our fat This is what David Girovolo, the

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Speaker 1: CEO of AffA, had to say on the show yesterday.

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Speaker 3: We're not saying not to review the Fisheries Act or

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Speaker 3: to make progress. See, a lot of the governments delive

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Speaker 3: it a lot of things to improve traditional loaners abilities

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Speaker 3: to run businesses on country with the reviews and changes

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Speaker 3: to the Aboriginal Coastal License. They've provided ten million dollars

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Speaker 3: to the Aboriginal Sea Company. They've reviewed and reformed the

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Speaker 3: objects of the Act. So the government has been delivering. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 3: fishes have been losing access and now we're in a

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Speaker 3: situation where there is more uncertainty and we are really

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Speaker 3: really afraid that they're going to do that by an agreement,

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Speaker 3: which then means later on when things arise at our

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Speaker 3: fundamental problems for us, they get railroaded through because they've

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Speaker 3: already signed a deal. So this is why people are worried.

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Speaker 3: There is so much uncertainty. Come January one, a lot

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Speaker 3: of people don't know if they're going to be able

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Speaker 3: to operate their businesses where they currently can operate it.

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Speaker 3: Recreational fishes don't know if they're going to be welcome

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Speaker 3: in places that they've been welcome ever since they were

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Speaker 3: born in the territory or ever since they've lived in

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Speaker 3: the territory. And it seems like it's acceptable that people

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Speaker 3: just find out when gets announced and they just have

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Speaker 3: to live with the consequences, and that really is not

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Speaker 3: good enough.

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Speaker 1: Minister, what is your response to those comments?

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Speaker 2: Oh, look, Kati, there's absolutely been no deals done at

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Speaker 2: nothing signed. There are absolutely be consultation going forward. We

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Speaker 2: talked with David on an almost weekly basis and did

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Speaker 2: as recently with that Fishing Advisory Council yesterday. Look, our

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Speaker 2: most popular of waterways to daily, the Big Dadelade River,

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Speaker 2: the mayor who all of those have long term access

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Speaker 2: agreements on them. We're going to continue that hard work

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Speaker 2: to work with the NLC and the traditional owners in

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Speaker 2: those areas to make sure we can get long term

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Speaker 2: access across as many waterways as we can through the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Well, how long until access arrangements will be firmed up

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Speaker 1: I mean, operators need some certainty heading into next year,

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Speaker 1: and territorians want some certainty heading into next year.

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Speaker 2: And as I've mentioned repeatedly and at the AFAN meeting

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Speaker 2: and at the Redfish's Committee meeting yesterday, we would be

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Speaker 2: a lot further down this road if it was for COVID,

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Speaker 2: but negotiating with traditional owners, where as you know, you

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Speaker 2: can't do that via video link. You have to go

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Speaker 2: out to country, sit and actually listen and negotiate with

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Speaker 2: traditional owners, and we haven't been able to do that

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Speaker 2: for the last few years. As I mentioned, we have

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Speaker 2: had seenior people from the Chief Men's Department very very

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Speaker 2: recently make arrangements to get out on country and continue

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Speaker 2: those negotiations. So I've got full confidence they will all

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Speaker 2: continue in the right space and time. So yeah, I

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Speaker 2: understand that people will have some concerns, but it's like

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Speaker 2: any negotiation which not only people.

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Speaker 1: Have concerns, but you've you've got business owners and operators

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Speaker 1: that are saying they do not know what it's going

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Speaker 1: to mean for them come January next year.

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Speaker 2: I understand that, Katie, and yeah, we'll certainly do everything

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Speaker 2: that we can to keep people informed and up to

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Speaker 2: date about where things are said, which there's a there's

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Speaker 2: a full council meeting of the Northern Land Council in

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Speaker 2: the next few weeks. But that's not stopping us either.

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Speaker 2: Will continue and theotiate continue to orchestrate to get out on

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Speaker 2: country and talk to people and make sure we get

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Speaker 2: as many of those bills done as we can. Go

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Speaker 2: on talk.

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Speaker 1: So are you confident that you know that people are

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Speaker 1: going to be able to access those waterways that they

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Speaker 1: have been fishing, you know, for their whole lives, and

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Speaker 1: their businesses are going to be able to you know,

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Speaker 1: to operate into next year. I mean a lot of

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Speaker 1: people questioning how are they supposed to hire staff, tourist bookings,

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Speaker 1: you know, what are they supposed to do at this

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Speaker 1: point with that uncertainty. And you're saying that there's going

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Speaker 1: to be that meeting, you know, before the end of

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Speaker 1: the year. But we're edging very closely to the end

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Speaker 1: of the year. I mean it's almost December.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand that. And as I mentioned, I rattled

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Speaker 2: off those those key waterways where nothing will change. We've

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Speaker 2: got long term access arrangements in those in those waterways.

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Speaker 2: It was raised at the avent meaning the other night, Kadan.

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Speaker 2: Everybody knows that like traditional owners are beautiful welcoming people.

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Speaker 2: They want people to come to their country. They want

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Speaker 2: to show off their beautiful lands in their beautiful waterways.

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Speaker 2: They want their countries to be respected. So I am

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Speaker 2: extremely confident will be able to work our way through,

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Speaker 2: get the right deals done and make sure everybody gets

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Speaker 2: the right outcome out of this. But they are negotiations

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Speaker 2: and there is a full council meeting, so it is

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Speaker 2: it's a time that we need to step through gently

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Speaker 2: and talking about time, Kati, I'm sorry, I've got to

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Speaker 2: get Downderhall.

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Speaker 1: I just want to ask you very quickly, well Shady Camp.

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Speaker 1: Will people still be able to access Shady Camp? And

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Speaker 1: what about those concerns that have been raised around King

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Speaker 1: ash Bay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's a really good point, yep, there is

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Speaker 2: so Federally the Lands Commissioner has made a determination across

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Speaker 2: that and said that they will grant that title. We

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Speaker 2: completely understand that, We completely agree with that. We have

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Speaker 2: written to Linda Burning to plead with her for that

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Speaker 2: those titles not to be granted until we have all

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Speaker 2: of the access arrangements at Shady Camp and those other

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Speaker 2: areas absolutely clarified and absolutely in place. There's a host

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Speaker 2: of work that has to be done physically out in

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Speaker 2: those areas for all of those titles to be pegged

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Speaker 2: and plotted before that goes ahead. So it's not going

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Speaker 2: to happen next week, but we have absolutely written to

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Speaker 2: the Federal Minister to make sure that there are no

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Speaker 2: grunting of those titles until all of the access arrangements

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Speaker 2: are sorted out.

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Speaker 1: So Minister, come January next year, are you confident that

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory fishermen are going to be able to access

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Speaker 1: all those waterways that they know and love, and that

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Speaker 1: businesses are going to be able to continue to operate.

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Speaker 2: We yes, certainly, we know that out the back of

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Speaker 2: the Northern Land Council meeting there might be some changes,

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Speaker 2: but we are absolutely confident will continue to work and

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Speaker 2: that for those the majority of those waterways that I've

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Speaker 2: mentioned before, we'll remain open and we'll continue to do

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Speaker 2: that hard work and negotiating with the traditional owners and

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Speaker 2: the Northern Land Council.

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Speaker 1: All right, Minister Kirby, just before I let you go,

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Speaker 1: raising the age of criminal responsibility that's expected to pass today.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's in line with the community's expectations.

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Speaker 2: I think once the community understands that it's about with

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Speaker 2: those young children that are being encouraged by older people

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Speaker 2: to do the wrong thing, that putting them into facilities

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Speaker 2: is not the answer, and it's about giving those young

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Speaker 2: kids every opportunity. I think the broader public will understand

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Speaker 2: that once they hear the debates over the coming days.

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Speaker 1: Minister, thank you for your time this morning. I know

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Speaker 1: you've got to head into Parliament. We appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Thanks a lot. Katie is