1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Daily This is the 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Daily OS. 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 2: Oh now it makes sense. 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 3: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday, 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 3: the twenty fourth of May. 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 2: I'm Zara, I'm Sam. 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 3: Should kids under the age of sixteen be banned from 8 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 3: social media? Well a new campaign. It's called thirty six Months. 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 3: That campaign thinks so it's calling for the age at 10 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 3: which young people can sign up to social media to 11 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 3: be pushed from thirteen to sixteen. The organizers believe that 12 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 3: thirty six months between the two ages are vital and 13 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 3: that quote kids need more time to develop healthy and 14 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 3: secure identities before they're exposed to the minefield of social media. 15 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 3: On today's podcast, Sam is going to talk to Michael 16 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 3: Whipper Whippley, We're just going to call him Whipper from 17 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 3: this point onwards. He is one of two organizers of 18 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 3: the campaign, and Sam speaks to him about why he's 19 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 3: behind the push, how he thinks it could work in practice, 20 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 3: and what some of the shortcomings of this approach could be. 21 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 3: We're going to bring you that interview in today's Deep Dive, 22 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 3: But first Sam, what's making headlines. 23 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: Western Australia is expected to introduce the quote toughest knife 24 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 2: laws in the country. The WA government wants to give 25 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: police powers to conduct random weapons scans without needing reasonable suspicion. 26 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 2: Anyone who refuses a scan could face penalties of up 27 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: to twelve months imprisonment and a maximum twelve thousand dollars fine. 28 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: This follows similar legislation in Queensland, where a law was 29 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 2: introduced after the fatal stabbing of a teenage boy in 30 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. 31 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 3: UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has called an election months 32 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: before his party's term officially ends. Tens of millions of 33 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 3: voters across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland will head 34 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: to the polls on the fourth of July. The Conservative 35 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 3: Party aka the Tories, have been in government since twenty ten. 36 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 3: The Labour Party is polling ahead of the Tories as 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 3: it seeks to return to power for the first time 38 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 3: in fourteen years. 39 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 2: Louisiana could become the first US state to make abortion 40 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: pills illegal without a prescription. The state has introduced a 41 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: bill that would reclassify the medication as a quote controlled 42 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: dangerous substance. In Louisiana, possession of a drug under this 43 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: classification is illegal without a prescription. Penalties include up to 44 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 2: ten years in prison or up to a five thousand 45 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: US dollar fine. 46 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 3: In today's good news, a science museum in Italy has 47 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 3: recreated a butterfly forest to support biodiversity and research efforts. 48 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 3: The Butterfly Greenhouse in Trento, Italy was modeled on a 49 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 3: rainforest in Tanzania where butterfly species are known to thrive. 50 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 3: Over three hundred butterfly cocoons are placed into the greenhouse 51 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 3: each week, making the area home to thousands of winged insects. So, Sam, 52 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 3: there has been a lot of conversation this week, last week, 53 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 3: I feel like this year about how to approach young 54 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: people and social media, and there are lots of opinions 55 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 3: on what the right way to move forward is. But 56 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 3: I think there's just this kind of consistent recognition that 57 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 3: young people are being failed on social media, whether that 58 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 3: be bullying or exposure to particularly distressing content. There is 59 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 3: a lot to be done in this space, and one 60 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 3: of the responses is this new campaign called thirty six 61 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 3: months Tell Me about It. 62 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: So this campaign is a social push to raise the 63 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: minimum age at which Australian teens can sign up for 64 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: a social media account like Instagram or Snapchat that've actually 65 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 2: included all of the social media platforms in this particular model. 66 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: And the idea of thirty six months is that there's 67 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 2: thirty six months between the current age of thirteen and 68 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: the proposed age of sixteen. And as you were here 69 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 2: in this chat I had with Whipper, whose day job 70 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: is as a radio host for Nova, it's really about 71 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: unlocking what opportunities could be present in those thirty six months. 72 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: But as we also talked about, there are some issues 73 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: with this as well. 74 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I have quite strong opinions on introducing 75 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 3: bands on things when you know there needs to be 76 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 3: perhaps a bit more nuance on it. But I'm really 77 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 3: keen to hear this interview and hear what Whipper has 78 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 3: to say. So, without further ado, here's Sam and Whipper. 79 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: So, but thanks for joining us on the Daily OS 80 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: this morning. 81 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: Thank you, Samne I honored to be here. I really 82 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: appreciate the time. 83 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 2: Why did you start this campaign? 84 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: Well, to launch thirty six months really is me acknowledging 85 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: that I've got a platform, But I'm here representing everyone 86 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,119 Speaker 1: else that has a major concern with the age limit 87 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: of kids on social media more and more the conversations 88 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: are shared and at the same time, Sam, some of 89 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: the stories are absolutely devastating, and the result is life 90 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: changing for individuals but also families that have suffered through this. 91 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: And you know what the reading that I'd done, and 92 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: knowing that state by state in the US there were 93 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: conversations happening and laws were being changed, I thought, we 94 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 1: have to do something. The idea that there's a product 95 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: out there that one in two will use and have 96 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: a psychological impact of possibly anxiety or depression, and if 97 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: you continue to use that product, it might kill you. Now, 98 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: if that was anything else, it wouldn't last on the 99 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: shelf for two seconds. But all of a sudden we 100 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: found ourselves with this huge data set which shows us 101 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: the impact clearly and the correlation. But it's still going on, 102 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: and to me, it doesn't make any sense. It's simply 103 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: not right. 104 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 2: And so you're asking people to sign a petition. As 105 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 2: we're recording this, there's about thirty eight thousand signatures, which 106 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: is by no means a small number of people. What 107 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 2: happens after that, so you get as many signatures as 108 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 2: you want, what's next you do? 109 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: You can drive it for as many signatures, and in 110 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: a perfect world, you like, I think the politician represents you, 111 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: and the politician works for you, and I think what 112 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: we're doing, I mean the petition is simple and that 113 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: we just want people to understand that we're here and 114 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: that we're biding for them. The next step would be 115 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: an element of submission for a change to the law, 116 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: and there's a couple of different laws we'd be looking at. 117 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: There's a Privacy Act, but it gets a bit deeper 118 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: and a bit more richer than that. What we do 119 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: have in place at the moment, from my understanding, is 120 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: that the platforms, it's a pretty lazy age gait, as 121 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: you might say, sam for kids to get onto social media. 122 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: And we talk about thirteen to sixteen being that thirty 123 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: six months, there's a lot of kids that are a 124 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: lot younger than thirteen on social media. That's just what 125 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: it is. You can scan your way through on that 126 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: platform very easily. So if there's two parts to it 127 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, one is we're working through the actual 128 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: technical requirement of how it would work if there was 129 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: a two factor verification, which would obviously have to be 130 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: in conjunction with the social media platform but we do 131 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: have that database, we do have that data online, so 132 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be a sharing of data. The process would 133 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: be that through the social media platform. That two factor 134 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: would happen behind the scene. And we know when you 135 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: have ordered this country, everything's on file a check that 136 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: can be made. So that's how the function of what 137 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:16,239 Speaker 1: will work. 138 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: So just to spell that out, you're kind of saying 139 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: that two factors. So you'd have to then loop in 140 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: a medicare or a passport office or something. 141 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: Correct. 142 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 2: You would ping out to a government database and say, yes, 143 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 2: this kid is sixteen and a half, they're allowed. 144 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: On Yeah, that's exactly right, and it would simply know 145 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: who you were and whether you could be You know, 146 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: there's a bit of money that's gone from the government 147 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: into research about how that would work and how that 148 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: would look. The other side of it, too, is just 149 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: kind of getting in the right room and having a 150 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: bit of a punch on with the politicians, as we 151 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: did on air with Albernezi the other day. You know 152 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: what I was trying to inspire at one point because 153 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: I will say, you could really hang your hat on 154 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: something here. You know, some people are questioning whether you're 155 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: the best leader we've ever had. Whether you're a great 156 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: leader at all, I didn't say that during an interview, 157 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: but you know, the jury is out at times and 158 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: in some people's view, but I know that if you 159 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: were to make a change like this, you would really 160 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: really become a force in world leadership and understanding the 161 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: people and understanding what everybody wants. And this is not 162 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: just an Australian thing. 163 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: This is a. 164 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: Country by country. As you can imagine, it doesn't vary 165 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: in terms of algorithms and content being served to kids. Yeah, 166 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: that's being influenced down the wrong way. That's every country. 167 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: So I would like to think the prime in it 168 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: stuff would realize the opportunity that sits in his hands. 169 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: So when I first read through your material and proposal, 170 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: the big thought I had was teenagers under sixteen are 171 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 2: going to find a way around it. Whether it's me 172 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 2: getting into clubs with a fake ID when I was 173 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: seventeen and not meant to be there, whatever it might be, 174 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: we'll figure out a way. Yeah, are you not putting 175 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 2: in there? Then a structure where a fifteen year old 176 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: who's not meant to be on social media, who's having 177 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: a really terrible traumatic experience on social media then feels 178 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: afraid to go to mom and dad, or to a 179 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 2: teacher or something because it's now illegal that they're there. 180 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, there's always going to be ways around things. 181 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,119 Speaker 1: That's simply with any law that there is, casinos, gambling, 182 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: what do you want it to be? Cigarettes, alcohol, There 183 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: will always be ways around. But I think what we're 184 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: trying to do as well is that a lot of 185 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: feedback has been it's the parents. Parents must have the 186 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: strength to tell the kids they can't do that and 187 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: they can't be on there. But we're trying to empower 188 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 1: the parents also to be able to say, you don't 189 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: rob a bank, you don't stealer, can't and it's illegal 190 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: to be on social media under the age of sixteen. 191 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: So you would like to think there was some level 192 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: of correct influence there from the parents. I know your 193 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: point completely, and once again it does come back to 194 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: the parents in having that conversation. But what we've found 195 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: is that the parents find themselves completely power us in 196 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: that they don't want to create social isolation for the kids, 197 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: and therefore they try to do the right thing by 198 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: their child, but then realize the impact it changes to 199 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: the family and the individuals themselves. So if we were 200 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: to do this, we would be able to buy the 201 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: child comfort because I think personally they don't want it, 202 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: but in a group they feel they need it, and 203 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: the parent doesn't have any power because they don't want 204 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: to damage the kids socially. So everybody feels caught out 205 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: and nobody wins on that front. 206 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: And then the other thing that we need to really 207 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 2: think about is, in your perfect world we delay the 208 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 2: age of social media to that sixteen point, they're still 209 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 2: going to get there and they're still going to see, 210 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 2: you know, terrible things. They're still going to be the 211 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: statistic state, cyberble lead, all of that kind of thing. 212 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 2: Do you see this going hand in hand with more 213 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: education in that thirteen to sixteen Like, are we just 214 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 2: talking about holding them back from entering that world or 215 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: actually going in harder? 216 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: Now? That is the spot I'm thinking, right, it's the 217 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: idea of going We've got thirty six months, they've given 218 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: it back to them. I mean, let's end up the hours. Yeah, 219 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: I mean, what are we going to do with that 220 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: time besides families that naturally will reconnect. What education can 221 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: we build into that thirty six months. And the great 222 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 1: thing is the co founder, Rob Galuzzo, who's on board 223 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: from Finch. He's done some fantastic social movement work in 224 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: the past, but also in the education space. So that's 225 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: why when we were talking about this Rob and I, 226 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: I said, look, I can probably get up there on 227 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: a platform, but we need your experience in the education 228 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: space as well to help out here. But think about 229 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: the teachings we can build in and think about the 230 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: resilience we then have time to work and the skill 231 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: set that they could possibly take going into their later teens. 232 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: That's what we need to do with that thirty six months. 233 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 2: So you're actually framing it there's more of an opportunity cost. 234 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: There's a huge opportunity, a massive opportunity. And the other 235 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: thing is too outside of when you talk about the 236 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: kids and the parents. You know, I was having a 237 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: discussion with a friend yesterday who's a teacher, and not 238 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: only are the teachers unable to teach because they spend 239 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: their entire time putting out spotfires caused by social media, 240 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: the teachers are actually quitting because they can't do their job. 241 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: Sort of the depth of where we go to on 242 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: an education front so I think it would be quite 243 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: engaging to have that education around what people are dealing 244 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: with at the moment. 245 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,599 Speaker 2: But we've decided that kids under sixteen are criminally responsible. 246 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 2: I mean, they can go to jail in some states 247 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 2: and territories from the age of ten, But now we're 248 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 2: saying that they're not responsible enough to have an Instagram 249 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 2: or Snapchat account. We also think that they can pay 250 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 2: taxes when they start working at macas at fourteen. How 251 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:27,719 Speaker 2: do we reconcile all of this. 252 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: I don't think you can. I think you're just you've 253 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: got to work off the database and the numbers. There's 254 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: always going to be out lives and effects of comparisons there. 255 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: But no, I think I mean, if you were to 256 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: take my stance on why we're talking about the difference 257 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: between thirteen and sixteen, then it would support what you're 258 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: saying there, because really we're talking about the adolescent brain 259 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: and the development and the fact that you know, it's 260 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: that prefront or cortex, which is a very big part 261 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: of your reaction, your decision making, your maturity, your emotion, 262 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: and that doesn't stop growing to your into your early twenties. 263 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: So that's why we look at that young brain as 264 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: being so vulnerable, influential, and that's constantly developing through those 265 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: puberty years. So when you're building the sensitivities around that 266 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: and you consider what's being served online, then yes, that's 267 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: where the danger really really lies. 268 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like mine's still developing, and I'm twenty 269 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: nine or so. 270 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you saw some of the things I do 271 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: in my general life day to day saying, you would 272 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: wonder why I'm putting my hand up here. 273 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 2: So, I mean, the news industry is dealing with its 274 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 2: own tensions with social media. We're staring down the barrel 275 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 2: of a Canada like situation where all newspages are taken 276 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 2: off social media because of the government, you know, twisting 277 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 2: the dial too much on regulating them. Do you have 278 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 2: a fear that meta could just go? You know what, 279 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: if you're trying to disrupt our business model and get 280 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: that up to sixteen, we're just going to withdraw from 281 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 2: Australia altogether. For those listening to the podcast hand strugg 282 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 2: they're going, you know what, No, I mean, is that 283 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 2: something you've thought about? 284 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, at the same time, let the evolution 285 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: of it happen. I mean, we talk about the government 286 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: and TikTok And you know, was it India the other 287 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: day that said no more TikTok? Yeah, and then the 288 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: government in the US is kind of hinting at no 289 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: more TikTok. And if TikTok was to shut down, a 290 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: TikTok goes away. Now another version is going to pop 291 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: up somewhere. But it wouldn't it be great if we 292 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: were able to clear out the deck and start again. 293 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: Sam Interesting, let's sweep the floor and say, hey, guys, 294 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: brand new party. Here are the rules. 295 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 2: Interesting. 296 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be a wonderful world? 297 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: If very interesting? It was slightly disrupt the daily eyes, 298 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 2: but I think it's it's a very interesting proposition to you. 299 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: No things are going to change, and there's going to 300 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: be some safer places to play them. When you talk 301 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: about dumb phones coming back into terms for kids, what 302 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: a bad idea? Keep it simple. 303 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: I couldn't agree with you more in that we're entering 304 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: a two or three year period where there's going to 305 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: be massive social media disruption. And if there was a 306 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: time for you know you to be loud about this campaign, 307 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: it probably is now when we're reevaluating the place of 308 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 2: every platform. Last question, Whipper, you've had stational broadcast career. 309 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 2: I actually just found in my inbox an application for 310 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 2: work experience at the fifteen Whipper Show in twenty eleven, 311 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 2: when I was seventeen. A year eleven. Didn't hear back, 312 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 2: but but it's okay, it's all right. You can buy 313 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 2: me a sandwich. Are you now thinking about a career 314 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:17,479 Speaker 2: in politics? 315 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: No, not at all. 316 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: No, But to really do this, don't you think you 317 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 2: need to kind of keep saying it through. 318 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't need to become a politician to 319 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: do that. I mean, I'm not going to stoot for 320 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: a nice suit and a Chesterfield chair in the corner 321 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: of my room. No, I don't think. So it's very 322 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: kind of your suggest maybe that that would be a 323 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: place I could play. For one, I enjoy radio far 324 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: too much. And secondly, I think you know I was 325 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: talking before about the great thing about what radio has 326 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: bought is and having done the fifteen Whipper Show and 327 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: Kate Richie now for thirteen years, Sam is that you 328 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: can meet so many wonderful people. So the idea behind 329 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: how we put this together and how far we can 330 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: drive this was really pulling in all the pieces and 331 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: going all right, well that person knows this, and that 332 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: person knows this, we can bring in that sort of 333 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: influence here and getting everybody together to support the right message. 334 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: And simply also if you consider our ex Premier Dominic Perrote, 335 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: who's been instrumental helping us out I just had to 336 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: think about who had the most children in New South 337 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: Wales who would really care about this topic, and that 338 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: was dom Perrote. I mean he happened to be on 339 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: the backbench and had a bit of time on his 340 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: hands as well, but it just seemed to fall into 341 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: place to make sure that he was part of this. 342 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: So he's been instrumental with introductions and helping us out here. 343 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: And he was a lawyer for ten years. 344 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 2: Helps that helps. Michael Wivley, thank you so much for 345 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 2: joining us this morning. 346 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 3: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode of The 347 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 3: Daily Oz. If you enjoyed what you listened to today or 348 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 3: have any thoughts on this campaign, we would love to 349 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 3: hear them. If you're listening on Spotify, you can just 350 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 3: type your comment into the episode feedback and we can't 351 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 3: wait to read it. Have a brilliant weekend and we'll 352 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 3: speak to you again on Monday. 353 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 2: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 354 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 2: Bungelung calcotton woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 355 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 356 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest 357 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 2: Rate island and nations. 358 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 359 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:21,719 Speaker 1: both past and present.