WEBVTT - A Window of Opportunity 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.880 Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.879 verdicts against all three defendants. It was absolute shambles, to 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:12.360 tell you the truth, just absolutely really cold in blood 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:14.760 on his clothing the day after the alleged a top 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:16.760 on a shallow mud bank and if fits through a river. 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:18.919 Basically, I think most of the people are used to 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:20.400 me are good people. 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.080 I think a really important question we need to ask 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.200 you how many Indigenous prisoners in area inhan. 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:29.720 This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.240 blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:36.080 our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:37.839 Amy Maguire. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.480 And I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:46.600 Prisoner Support Service. Our producer is Paul Watts. Music by 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:51.640 Clint Curtis and produced in collaboration with the Brisbane Indigenous 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:56.040 Media Association. And a warning that this series contains the 0:00:56.120 --> 0:01:00.840 names of deceased peoples and has distressing content might upset 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:01.840 some listeners. 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.320 Recently, I visited Rockhampton for a weekend. It was Sunday 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:09.520 when I decided to go down to the Fitzroy River, 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:12.880 which runs through the center of the town. Cutting the 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:16.040 north and the south. It was midday, hot and dry, 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.679 and it was high tide as I went down to 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.680 the north side of the river, the side opposite to 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.640 Nuba House. On this side of the river there's a 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.440 racecourse and up further are soccer fields, usually used for 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:32.280 junior soccer when the season starts. That day, though it 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.680 was quiet up further there were a couple of fishermen 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.080 and another family who were getting out their rods. There 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.160 were a number of brakes in the grass where you 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:42.920 could put up a chair and throw in a light, 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.679 but I stopped at one area, a more popular area, 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.840 the area closest to the racecourse. There's a dirt track 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.480 leading to a ramp which usually you can see going 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.200 into the water when it's low tide. If you stand 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:59.360 at the top of this time act ramp, you can 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:01.720 turn and see the racecourse, and then on the other 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.120 side you can see Tanuba House clearly see its gates 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.560 now barricading the bottom area where the party would have 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.880 been in nine to ninety one. On this Sunday, the 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.400 water was so high that it was lapping at the banks, 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:16.440 and as I approached the water, I had an uneasy 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.440 feeling that something was watching me. Maybe it was just 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.080 me being stupid, feeling that there was something there that 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.400 needed to be found. But I kept walking to the edge. 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:27.880 As I stood on the banks, a mere one foot 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.440 from the water, there was a slow movement that caught 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.520 my eye. Was it a school of fish? I thought? 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.160 As I studied my gaze, and then my unies built 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.200 because there I saw it, only a short distance from me, 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.320 close enough to take a bite, was a crocodile. I 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.760 could see its rocky back skimming the surface. It turned 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.560 and began swimming away. I jumped and ran back to 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:53.200 the car, where I immediately rang Mardin. Mardin, you would 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.160 not believe what I just saw. I'm down at the 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:56.519 Fitzroy River at the moment. 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:57.639 What's going on? 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.120 I just I was standing there on the corner, just 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.240 like where the water it's high tied right now, so 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.359 the water was just up the really high, and there's 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.120 a stinking crocodile started swimming away from me. But it 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.760 was that close to me. I couldn't believe it. A 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:12.120 just freaked me out. 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:14.959 I didn't even know there were crocs in that river. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.000 Oh yeah, he's the crocs like Dad were saying that 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.480 they actually, because it's a racecourse really close, they used 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.240 to take the horses swimming, and the crocs used to 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.480 attack the horses as heats. The crocodile you see them 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:25.040 all the time. 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:29.280 Well, that makes things interesting because I'd never considered that 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.200 there were crocs in the river there, because one thing 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:36.560 we know is that there was marine life discussed in 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:41.640 the trial. If I'd known there were crocs, that would 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:44.680 have changed the way I was looking at things and 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.080 reading about it, because I just assumed it was probably 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:48.360 fish they were talking about. 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:52.160 Nah, No, it's well known. We see croc sidings all 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:53.800 the time. I should have told you. I wouldn't have 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:54.600 even thought that. 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.880 You know, well, no, I didn't even think to consider. 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.080 It, Hey, Martin, I got to go. Sorry. 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:08.440 Later it brought forth a new possibility. If this river 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.880 was full of crocodiles and other marine life, would that 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:15.040 have come up in Linda's autopsy? Would there have been 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.080 interference with her body? Linda would have been bleeding when 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:21.640 she was put into the water that night on August 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:26.240 thirty first, nineteen ninety one. She had severe injuries to 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.280 her head and other parts of her body. If she'd 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.599 been put in around ten pm at the time police 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.800 believed she was put in. Was it possible that she'd 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:41.120 escaped other marine life like crocodiles by eight am the 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:45.480 next morning when she was found. Was a possibility worth 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:49.680 following up, So we called a local Rockhampton crocodile expert. 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.720 John leve is the owner of Karana Crocodile Farm just 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.440 outside of Rockamden and has decades of experience with crocodiles. 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:01.880 He's been in Rockhamden since nineteen eighty. Yeah, So I'm 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:03.840 just I was actually down at the Fitzroy River the 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:05.800 other week and I saw a croc in the river, 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.960 and yeah, we're doing this murder case and basically she 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.080 was put in the river at a certain time. So 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.680 I was just it brought you know, I just started 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.080 thinking about questions about crocod. 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:18.760 I caught one last night two point seven meters Oh true? 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.359 Was it near the racecourse or because I saw it? 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:24.839 Now now I was above the barage, Oh, above the barage, Okay, 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:25.760 in the fresh water. 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.080 Yeah, okay. Because you actually came to Rocky in nineteen eighty, 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.479 didn't you, So you've known a bit about Yeah, you 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:33.880 know about croc habits. For a very long time, over 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:34.720 a long period of time. 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.080 Yeah, I've been working with them since nineteen seventy two. 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.880 Right, Okay, how would you describe Is there a lot 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.440 of crocs in the fitzthrough revolt? How would you describe 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:44.080 the numbers? 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.440 Not a lot, But they've always been there. 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:52.800 It's the southernmost extent of the saltwater crocodiles range in Australia, 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.000 so you wouldn't expect there to be a huge population 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.640 like you get in the wet tropics. It's quite different. 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.800 So it's a meager population, but they always have been there. 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.599 They're more likely to come out around nighttime or be 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:08.160 more active during the nighttime. 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:13.160 Yes, they're quite nocturnal in their behavior. Most of their 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.040 feeding is done at night and their water edge feeders, 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.040 so being on the water's edge after dark is a 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:21.000 dangerous place to be. 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.240 Are they more likely to be alongside like a muddy bank, 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.479 I guess the muddy side of the river, or it's 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:27.840 pretty much anywhere they can. 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:28.839 Go anywhere anywhey. 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.920 Okay, what would their prime feeding hours be if you. 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.839 Wait for dusk and then add about another three hours, 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.479 that's sort of if you can imagine us waking up 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.320 at daybreak and then becoming active a couple of hours later, 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.400 and then going through a day's work. Well, that's basically 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.240 what the crocodile does in reverse. When it gets dark, 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.440 he starts to feel secure, and he starts to venture 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:57.240 out from wherever he's been hiding during the daylight hours 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:02.159 and will then start to roam around, you know, after 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.400 that time. And quite often when you go out surveying crocodiles, 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.159 if you go just after dark, you don't see many. 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:10.240 If you do the same stretch of river at one 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.560 o'clock in the morning, you find quite a lot. Right, 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:17.480 And this is simply because of the crocodile's behavior and 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:21.040 there their activity patterns. 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:22.960 If you like, I'm just wondering this is sort of 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:26.720 a morbid question, but would you expect if there was 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:28.960 a body in a water and it was bleeding, would 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:30.720 they be attracted to that body? 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:36.600 Would you expect it could be there the blood itself. 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.440 I mean, they've got very good sense of smell, but 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.400 not necessarily in the water. They'd have to have direct 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.680 contact with that in the water. But ten percent of 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:47.760 their brain is devoted to their sense of smell. 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:49.720 Okay, so you get this. 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.720 Uh. An animal that might be roaming around. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:58.280 A river and there's something that may the smell of 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:03.120 another animal further upstream downstream, and they'll swim around till 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.440 they find it and then eventually get their feed. 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.720 That way you're doing about CROs being quite opportunistic. 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:09.280 Hunters, well they are. 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.360 I mean even if a crocodile. The one thing about 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:17.520 crocs is they are hardwired to react, and they react 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:22.880 particularly to vibrations. So if a crocodile has just had 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.160 a big meal and it's just lying underwater relaxing and 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.080 there's a vibration in the water beside it, it can't 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:32.520 help itself. It's got to react towards that vibration. Now, 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.960 this is similar to me flicking my hand, knee your face. 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:42.120 You will blink. It is an uncontrollable reaction, and it's. 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:43.040 The same with crocodile. 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:48.240 So someone or something jumping in the water or landing 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.640 in the water and you're a crocodile, the crocodile is 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:54.960 hardwired to react to that source of the vibration. So 0:08:55.000 --> 0:09:01.439 it's not only seeking out foods. Sometimes their opportunistic feeders. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.600 In as much as I'll give you a classic example 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.880 when you're out at night spotlighting and you shine the 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.200 spotlight across the top of the water. Quite often the 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.719 mullet jump up into the light and if they land. 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:16.520 Near a crocodile, the crocodile. 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:20.400 Reacts immediately and grabs hold of the mullet. And you know, 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:24.560 so that is not an opportunistic feeding, but it's a 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.800 total reactive thing which crocodiles will do because there's a 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:30.559 vibration in the water alongside it. 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.120 Ok. Yeah, because I can imagine it. Also, if there's 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.000 something like a body that's been in a waterway all 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.280 nine and it's just going up and down with the tide, 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.600 obviously there would have likely been crocodiles in it at 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.640 that point in time, because it was around nineteen ninety one. 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:46.840 But if it's just going up and down, I mean, 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:48.840 it's very likely that it would have come into contact 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:49.960 with a crocodile. 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:50.400 Loved one. 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.120 In nineteen ninety one, the police actually employed me to 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:53.800 go out. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:55.880 In the garden while they were doing the diving. 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:57.480 That for that body. 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.440 Yeah, well they never found the body, I don't think today. 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:03.640 Oh yeah, they did. So it was a nine ninety 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.640 one around August September and they found her on the side. Yeah, 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.480 but I think they would have had to go in anyway. 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:11.319 But the thing we found that they did, they did 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:13.320 a lot of diving out there with them for I 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.839 think two or three days while they died around the 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:20.280 area where they thought it was a bit suspicious. 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:20.840 Yeah. 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.640 Yeah, we're actually doing a long term investigation. And I 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.160 was just interested because they didn't find any marine damage 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:28.720 to her body and she'd been in overnight. So I 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.160 just thought, well, that's very strange to me. You know, 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.840 I would have thought at least fish had gone into her, 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:35.560 at least crocodiles. 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:39.360 You know, well crabs in particular, the real scavengers, you know, 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:44.360 they they're quite predatory on dead meat. 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:50.040 Yeah. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:54.400 Now this raised questions. First of all, the autopsy found 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.079 no sign that Linda's body had been interfered with by 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.840 marine life, not even or crabs. That seems strange to me, 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.360 given the timeline of when she was supposed to have 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.400 been put in the river. How was she in the 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:11.200 water from ten pm the night before until eight am 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:17.240 the next morning without her body being interfered with by crocodiles, fish, 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:19.120 or even crabs. 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.960 Is it possible that her body was put in at 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.920 a later time. Do we need to narrow that window? 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:27.320 And if her body was put in the river at 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.280 a later time, not at ten pm, would there have 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.480 been a window of opportunity for Kevin to even do that. 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.320 Now, last week we gave you a few details about 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:43.040 the forensics in this case. We told you that this 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.440 week you'd be hearing from an international expert who is 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:51.560 looking into the forensic evidence presented at trial. But unfortunately 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:55.600 that analysis is not yet ready. And the reason is this. 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.560 Already our expert has found the forensics in the case 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:05.080 were far too simplistic, both in the testimony of the 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:09.360 forensic experts at Trophile and also in the reports they 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:13.960 gave to the police. This forensic evidence could potentially be 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.319 very important and so as vital. 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:17.320 We don't rush it. 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.120 But my brush with the crocodile raised some interesting questions 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.200 for us to pursue in the meantime. How much time 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.600 did Kevin have on the night of August thirty first 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.560 to put Linda in the river? Did he have any 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.200 time at all? And if he didn't put Linda in 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.760 the water, the obvious question is who did. 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.040 Now again, we must transport you back to the events 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:48.520 of August thirty first, nineteen ninety one, the night of 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:52.880 Linda's assault and death. We've told you the grim details 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.160 of the assault on Linda. Now we're going to tell 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.280 you what we know about what happened after that assault. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.360 We're going to cry and piece together a timeline of 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:03.760 what happened afterwards. 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.440 Madam. We talked in the last episode about the assault. 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:12.680 What time did the assault end? 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.440 We can't be exactly sure. We have to remember that 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:22.000 everyone there that night was fairly heavily intoxicated, but we 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.600 do know that it was dark or getting dark. We 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:29.360 know the football game had ended, which had started about 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:33.440 three pm. So from the best estimate from all the 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.640 witness statements and also the estimates that are given at 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.800 the trial, we think it was around seven pm to 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:42.719 eight pm? 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.840 And what happened? Did they leave her there? Do we 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.840 have a good sense of when they left Tanuba or 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:50.400 what happened after the assault. 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.720 So what we know is that everyone who was there, 0:13:53.920 --> 0:14:00.000 apart from two individuals, left Tanuba. Now they didn't all 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.120 leave at exactly the same time, but we're talking within 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.520 a matter of minutes. Some made a point of walking 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:11.199 around the side of Tanuba House so that they didn't 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.079 have to walk past where Linda's body was. Others simply 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:19.520 walked straight past the footpath right where Linda was lying. 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.000 And they were all heading in one direction, and that 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:24.320 was to the Crown Hotel. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.440 And the Crown Hotel at the time was a popular 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:29.720 drinking place I guess for a lot of Aboriginal people. 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.000 And it's not that far from Tanuba. Is that it 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.000 only takes a few minutes walk. 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.880 Yeah, so it's a couple of minutes walk. We know 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.560 that although there was plenty of places in Rockhampton for 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.440 people to buy alcohol, that the Crown Hotel was the 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:50.080 place most frequented by Aboriginal people. And it's certainly the 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:56.200 place where everyone from Tanuba regularly went, either to drink 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:58.960 or more often to just buy alcohol. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.320 Talked about everyone leaving at different times, I guess, and 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.760 only two staying. Was Kevin one of those two who 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:06.600 stayed behind. 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:11.440 No, Kevin went to the Crown with everyone else. Now, 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.680 there is one witness who says that Kevin didn't go 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:21.160 to the Crown and that he stayed behind. But this witness, 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.240 when she first appeared on the stand, claimed to have 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:28.480 been sober all of the Saturday and all of the Sunday. 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:33.760 She also made claims in her statement that couldn't be 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:38.560 backed up by any forensic evidence. Now she would backpedal 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.760 on all of those claims, including about Kevin, and she 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:47.240 would admit that she was in fact heavily intoxicated on 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:53.720 the stand. So this is someone who lied under oath, 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.800 who was intoxicated on both the Saturday when Linda was 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:03.760 assaulted and on the Sunday the following day. Who is 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:07.640 the individual who says Kevin stayed behind. But this is 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.760 a person who then admits that most of what she 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.520 said on the stand is being made up and that 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.760 she can't in fact remember what went on. So it's 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.320 fair to say from that we need to include what 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:26.400 she said to give everyone a full account of what 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:31.400 witnesses say. But other than this particular witness who did 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.800 admit to eying on the stand, we know that Kevin 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:36.040 was with everybody else. 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.480 So I mean, the obvious question is when did he 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.840 get time if the police version of events is true, 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.960 when did he get time to do what he was 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:48.320 supposed to have done to Linda? 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:53.520 Yes, so what we know is that the primary reason 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.720 for going to the Crown was to buy alcohol. It 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.960 wasn't to go there and drink. Now, some of the 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.400 witnesses say they were there for less than fifteen minutes. 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:07.399 In fact, one witness says they were only there for 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.159 a couple of minutes. What they all agree on is 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:15.440 that everyone chipped in and Susan Aubrey paid for the alcohol, 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.399 and it appears that was a case or two of 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:25.280 beer and at least one flagon. Then people left and 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:29.840 some went in other directions, but most headed back to Tanuba. 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:36.200 So we have a very small timeframe in which anybody, 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:42.520 including Kevin, could have interfered with Winder's body. It's as 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:47.119 short as perhaps ten minutes or even less. It could 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.399 be up to half an hour. But given that most 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:56.159 people say Kevin was at the Crown, it's hard to 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.119 find a time when he could have had any opportunity 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:02.840 to be alone with Linda's body. 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.080 Especially as you were saying it was obviously such a 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.359 transient place. Did any of the two people who stayed 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.400 at Tanubah that night, who were there the whole night, 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:15.359 never left. Did they say anything about whether Kevin was 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:16.879 still there at any point? 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:22.720 No, So they say that they didn't see Kevin Henry 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:28.320 next to Linda's body, nor moving Linda's body, and they 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.480 were there the whole day, they'd been there the night before, 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:33.800 and they were still there the following day. 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:36.640 So when you consider that the fact that he would 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.760 have had between fifteen thirty minutes maybe at the most 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.280 to put her body in the water, would that have 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.680 correlated with what the police believe her body being put 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:49.000 in around ten o'clock at at night. Given what we 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.920 know of when the assault finished and when everyone left 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:52.560 to go to the. 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.480 Crown, it doesn't match up at all. And this is 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:00.600 a large problem in the trial that the police, although 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.000 they hint at a time they believe the body was 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:09.200 put in and that Kevin did what they allege, they 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.600 don't give any exact time. But if we even take 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.359 their rough estimate, that means that everyone had to stay 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.960 at the Crown for at least two hours, so from 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:24.919 between seven and eight until after ten pm, and not 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.159 a single witness ever claims they were at the Crown 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:33.000 Hotel for anywhere near that length of time. We know 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.280 also that there are other people who just simply never 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:42.440 left left Tanuba. So it's very flimsy what the police 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:47.320 offer up in terms of the opportunity for Kevin to 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:53.000 have had any chance at all to interfere with Linda's body, 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.359 move her body, let alone have time to put it 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:56.880 in the river. 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.440 Originally, Kevin says in his statement that he can back 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:04.000 down from Tanuba and the body was already gone. I mean, 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.520 is that something from other witness statements? Does anyone notice 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.880 when the body first goes missing, given that she had 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.240 just been left at Tanuba when everyone left. 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:15.040 Yeah. 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.879 So one thing again that a lot of the witnesses 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:21.000 agree on, in fact all of them, is that when 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:25.800 they returned from the Crown, Linda's body was gone. So 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.119 they say that it was a very short period of 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.200 time that they were gone. When they came back, that 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:38.199 Linda's body had been moved and was nowhere to be found. So, 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.920 given that Kevin was with people during this period of time, 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.920 and then from then on is with up to twenty 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.840 other people for the rest of the night, most of 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:54.560 whom including Kevin, we believe went to sleep, there's no 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:59.960 clear window of where Kevin could have committed the crime 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.080 time that he's alleged to have committed and been found 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:05.760 guilty of committing well. 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.920 I mean, given the fact he had no modern news clothes, 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.400 that would have had to be around high time, which 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:14.320 was not around ten o'clock at night, that's right. 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.000 So this is something we can use to pin down 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:22.600 the timing of when the body was put into the water. Now, 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.520 the police are going to claim and did claim that 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.720 that was done around ten pm and that was about 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:34.400 three hours before the tide reached high. Now, given in 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:37.760 the Fitzroy River, the tides are very large at high 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:42.760 tide and very small low tide. On the Tanuba House side, 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:47.040 that means a large area of mud is exposed and 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:51.639 only covered at high tide. So the police would claim 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:54.320 that whoever had to put the body in the water 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:58.919 would have needed to go through that mud that was 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:03.000 exposed because it was not high tide. In fact, the 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:07.919 police officer who attempted to recreate that ended up with 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:12.040 mud all over his clothes, all up his pants, his 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:16.720 boots covered in mud. Kevin did not have one speck 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.280 of mud on his clothes and they're the same clothes 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:26.560 he was wearing that night. So the police timing simply 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:31.639 doesn't match up with the accusation that Kevin put the 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:35.080