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Speaker 1: As I mentioned a little earlier this morning, we do

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Speaker 1: know that there has been a bit of a shake

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Speaker 1: up when it comes to commercial builder registrations aiming to

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Speaker 1: build confidence the government say in the local construction industry.

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Speaker 1: The government said earlier in the week that twenty eight

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Speaker 1: submissions were made on a consultation paper which they have

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Speaker 1: then which have contributed to the development of a registration

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Speaker 1: model when it comes to commercial builders. So under this model,

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Speaker 1: builders wanting to construct commercial buildings such as a warehouse

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Speaker 1: and offices are now going to be required to be

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Speaker 1: registered as commercial builders, but jobs including renovations and alterations

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Speaker 1: on existing buildings won't require commercial builder status apparently. But

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Speaker 1: joining me in the studio to tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about the changes and what it is going

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Speaker 1: to mean for the local construction industry is Ben Carter,

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Speaker 1: who is indeed the CEO of Master Builders here in

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Speaker 1: the territory. Good morning, Ben, how are you going? Not

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Speaker 1: too bad? Now? Ben? Firstly talk through exactly what these

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Speaker 1: changes are going to mean.

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, So the government is correct when it says

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Speaker 2: that it's got a series of reforms that are targeted

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Speaker 2: to what it says is inspiring confidence in the industry.

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Speaker 2: What we would say is that it's about continuing confidence

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Speaker 2: in the industry and the building environment because our members

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Speaker 2: have been building the territory for decades successfully with no dramas,

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Speaker 2: and the public we know has a great deal of

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Speaker 2: confidence in us. The government's reforms are in line with

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Speaker 2: other governments around Australia and so we don't oppose those

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Speaker 2: reforms in principle. What we oppose is the way they've

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Speaker 2: been implemented. The Government has proposed earlier this year licensing

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Speaker 2: model which would force many many builders with decades of

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Speaker 2: experience and improven track record of delivering trustworthy buildings to

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Speaker 2: basically stop their business, stop running their businesses and go

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Speaker 2: and get a Uni degree or a university diploma, which

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Speaker 2: would take two years for a full time student. Part

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Speaker 2: time would take four years at least. So we've been

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Speaker 2: pleading with the government for months and months and months

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Speaker 2: to have a parallel pathway so that so there can

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Speaker 2: be an adpigheming pathway to a license to a commercial

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Speaker 2: builder's license, but there also can be a system which

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Speaker 2: recognizes the fact that many builders running commercial building businesses

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Speaker 2: for decades with a proven track record of delivering safe

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Speaker 2: and quality buildings would have to go back to UNI,

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Speaker 2: which is not going to be.

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Speaker 1: A good So then let me just get this straight.

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Speaker 1: So what these changes are going to mean is say

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Speaker 1: you've got a builder that's been operating here in the

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Speaker 1: territory for thirty years that they're going to have to

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Speaker 1: go back to university and those qualifications and that work

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Speaker 1: experience that they've had for the last thirty years means

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Speaker 1: diadley squat.

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Speaker 2: So the government says there will be gone grandfather and

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Speaker 2: provisions which only under their proposal go for a year,

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Speaker 2: which will be inadequate. What they've also done, and what

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Speaker 2: we've said is that their detail and their proposed method

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Speaker 2: of grandfathering, which basically means that they'll give people some

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Speaker 2: they'll try and take into account some of that experience,

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Speaker 2: is in adequate and vague, and there will be many

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Speaker 2: builders who will fail at who won't be able to

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Speaker 2: demonstrate or comply with what that system is once it

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Speaker 2: is actually announced, and they'll have to go back to union. Well,

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Speaker 2: if they went to union in the first place, which

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Speaker 2: many wouldn't have meeting, would have come through a vocational pathway.

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Speaker 2: They would have done an apprenticeship they would have done

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Speaker 2: and had a lot. They've had on the job experience

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Speaker 2: on construction sites, day in and day out for thirty years,

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Speaker 2: as you say, or forty or twenty or a decade,

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Speaker 2: and they've had it. They've got a trusted track record

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Speaker 2: of building trustworthy buildings and they're going to be forced

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Speaker 2: to go that academic pathway.

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Speaker 1: But the other thing, and I mean this in the

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Speaker 1: most positive way, but within our construction sector, we've also

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Speaker 1: got a lot of Italians and Greeks that have migrated

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Speaker 1: to Australia and have been here for forty fifty years

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Speaker 1: working in the construction industry, building buildings right around the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory. They built the Northern Territory with the local

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Speaker 1: lauses after Cyclone Tracy. What's going to happen with those people?

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Speaker 1: Do they need to go back to university?

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Speaker 2: There are people in the industry who there are people

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Speaker 2: now who are engaged by government to do major reports

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Speaker 2: on our industry, who who are on committees, who are

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Speaker 2: giants of industry and eminent territorians who could not qualify

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Speaker 2: today or under these provisions for a builder's license, even

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Speaker 2: though they have run, you know, major construction businesses and

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Speaker 2: continue to do so many cases, so it will cause

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Speaker 2: a lot of hack. These are real people, Katie, real

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Speaker 2: people who are employing other real people. There's the v

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Speaker 2: of work done in the territory is of today in

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Speaker 2: construction for this year's three billion dollars, we are employing

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Speaker 2: upwards of two thousand Territorians, providing opportunities for hundreds of apprentices.

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Speaker 2: And the interesting thing is is that the Attorney General

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Speaker 2: has previously said that that are vocational pathway is the

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Speaker 2: way and an experienced pathway is the way to advance

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Speaker 2: through the construction industry. But now they're endorsing this, well,

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Speaker 2: they're trying to force this pathway on us.

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Speaker 1: So, Ben, what are member saying to you right now

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Speaker 1: as a result of this announcement being made throughout the week?

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Speaker 1: What are they saying?

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, they have categorically rejected this the industry and

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Speaker 2: Master Billi's members of categorically rejected this proposal when it

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Speaker 2: was first made in April this year, and Master Biller

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Speaker 2: has vigorously opposed it then since anna's been a radio

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Speaker 2: silence from the government. And now they've rushed this out,

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Speaker 2: well not rush, they've waited until one week before Christmas

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Speaker 2: to rush this out. And that's what governments do when

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Speaker 2: they know they're about to announce something that's deeply unpopular,

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Speaker 2: and they want to mute the opposition op vision voices

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Speaker 2: because they know people will be on holidays, they know

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Speaker 2: that our industry won't be around, and so that's why

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Speaker 2: they've done this. That's what governments do. So there's a

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Speaker 2: great deal of anger, a great deal of anger.

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Speaker 1: So do you reckon? They're trying to pull the wool

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Speaker 1: over the eyes of territory on this.

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Speaker 2: I'm not thinking that. I'm not sure they want to

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Speaker 2: deceive territorians. But what they certainly want to do is

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Speaker 2: they want to They know this will be unpopular. They understand,

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Speaker 2: if they've understood since April at least, how unpopulous it

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Speaker 2: is and how and how angry anger the industry is

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Speaker 2: about this, that people with a proven track record and

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Speaker 2: decades of experience will be forced to go through an

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Speaker 2: academic pathway to get a license to continue to operate.

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Speaker 2: They they they have they have a system where they

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Speaker 2: which which will be totally inadequate to assess that experience

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Speaker 2: and to grandfather it. There's lack of expertise, there that's

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Speaker 2: very that's very worrying, and so there's a great deal

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Speaker 2: of anger. And to do this, to do this the

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Speaker 2: week before Christmas, it's just sneaky and disingenuous and and

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Speaker 2: and angers the industry.

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Speaker 1: Ben I know that some people will be questioning, well,

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Speaker 1: isn't it fair enough for people to expect academic qualifications

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Speaker 1: as well as trade experience for commercial pride.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's not fair enough because historically there hasn't been

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Speaker 2: that requirement. So as I say, there are many many

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Speaker 2: builders in the territory and many people in management in

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Speaker 2: businesses who have had decades of experience, approven track records,

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Speaker 2: they have been working on and delivering trustworthy quality buildings

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Speaker 2: for decades, and there's never been a requirement before to

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Speaker 2: go through an academic pathway. Now it's fair enough to

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Speaker 2: say that people coming industry now should have a diploma.

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Speaker 2: We would say that actually three years of study is

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Speaker 2: probably in adequate any way to be trusted with building

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Speaker 2: a major project. And experience is always going to be

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Speaker 2: you know, adds to those is always going to be

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Speaker 2: the best thing you know on the spot on the job.

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Speaker 2: Experience is going to be just as valuable as the

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Speaker 2: plumber any day of the week. So, however, what we

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Speaker 2: are saying is is that if you are going to

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Speaker 2: have an academic pathway, you need to parallel one. In

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Speaker 2: other words, you need to have also a way that

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Speaker 2: that experience can be recognized and so that people won't

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Speaker 2: be forced to go.

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Speaker 1: Back ben What impact do you think that these reforms

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Speaker 1: are going to have on the industry.

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Speaker 2: Well, it can potentially force people out of the industry,

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Speaker 2: people who've been in the industry for decades, in giants,

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Speaker 2: as I say, in the territory, and in the industry.

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Speaker 2: It will cause it will cause a lot of shake

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Speaker 2: up in the industry. There's a lot and there's a

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Speaker 2: lot we don't know what will happen. We don't know

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Speaker 2: some of the consequences. How will it play out if

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Speaker 2: people who are running businesses fail to get a license,

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Speaker 2: how will they continue to operate? How will I continue

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Speaker 2: to employ people and continue to work and driving economic

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Speaker 2: growth in jobs in the territory. They're going to have

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Speaker 2: to find solutions, and we don't know how it's going

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Speaker 2: to work out. That could have unintended consequences which we're

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Speaker 2: just not aware of. We have our plan, Master Builders

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Speaker 2: has produced a plan called Trustworthy nt Buildings, which is

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Speaker 2: an ecosystem very much like the one you've introduced in

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Speaker 2: New South Wales, which we've put to the government, which

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Speaker 2: has a whole lot of protections for consumers and for

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Speaker 2: the territory. We want we want people to have confidence

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Speaker 2: in our built environment and have confidence our industry, which

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Speaker 2: they already do and we want to continue that. But

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Speaker 2: there has to be a practical way. That has to

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Speaker 2: be fair, it has to be true to real people

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Speaker 2: and the situation. These are real people that the government

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Speaker 2: is affecting, real businesses and they've run this out one

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Speaker 2: week before Christmas when they know that that's what they're

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Speaker 2: doing to try and avoid scrutiny and criticism.

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Speaker 1: How big of a blow is this after you know

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Speaker 1: what we've seen in recent years with COVID, with the

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Speaker 1: construction among the you know, like with the construction industry

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Speaker 1: and really you know, so much of what has happened

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Speaker 1: over recent years. You know, we need more people to

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Speaker 1: the workforce. How big a blow is this.

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Speaker 2: It will be a real blow to the industry, and

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Speaker 2: that's why the industry is so angry. We've come through COVID,

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Speaker 2: we had to deal with that, we're building back from

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Speaker 2: COVID and look, the territory government is doing some things

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Speaker 2: that are fantastic that we backed them one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: on and that we've asked for. Particularly, Minister Kirby has

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Speaker 2: been very supportive of the industry and has continued to

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Speaker 2: be so, and we are recruiting people overseas thanks to him,

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Speaker 2: and so some of the things that government is doing

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Speaker 2: is very strongly supported by US and very strongly supportive

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Speaker 2: of us. However, this policy is deeply FORWARED, totally rejected

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Speaker 2: and discredited and will be a blow to the industry.

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Speaker 1: I know that there had been some issues. I recall

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Speaker 1: interviewing Minister Laula about it in recent times. It could

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Speaker 1: have even been sort of towards the end of last

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Speaker 1: year where there had been some issues with the coding

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Speaker 1: of some of the buildings around the Northern Territory and

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Speaker 1: them not being to the specifications that were required. I mean,

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Speaker 1: is this part of it, is this part of sort

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Speaker 1: of making sure that everything that is built in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory is up to the standard that that we need.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and as I said at the start, we're not

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Speaker 2: opposed to that. We have our Trustworthy NT Buildings Plan,

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Speaker 2: which is about doing exactly that. What we're doing, what

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Speaker 2: we're proposing is measures that will as many are doing

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Speaker 2: in New South Wales are about are about inspiring more

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Speaker 2: confidence and ensuring that underpinning the continuing high quality of

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Speaker 2: buildings in the NT. There's not there's not some epidemic

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Speaker 2: of of of you know, flawed and unsafe and and

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Speaker 2: what's the word on poor quality buildings. There's not that

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Speaker 2: at all. In fact, we have we have a great

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Speaker 2: building environment up here. But nevertheless there isn't there is

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Speaker 2: a need, as with governments around Australia are doing, to

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Speaker 2: put in regulations that underpin that and we support them.

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Speaker 2: Our trust worth the NT Buildings has an ecosystem to

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Speaker 2: achieve that, which includes building a commercial builder licensing. However, however,

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Speaker 2: there must be a parallel pathway that recognizes the experience

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Speaker 2: so people with a preven track record and decades of

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Speaker 2: experience in delivering trustworthy buildings.

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Speaker 1: Well. Ben Carter, the CEO of Master Builders here in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory, really appreciate your time this morning. Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us, and Merry Christmas to you.

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Speaker 1: Please keep us up to date though with everything that goes.

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Speaker 2: Along with this, Yeah, definitely will Katie, It'll be happy

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Speaker 2: to do that. And Americ Christmas to all your listeners

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Speaker 2: and for all the commercial bills out there, stay tuned.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks Ben,