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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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Speaker 1: now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Daily OS. It's Friday, the sixteenth of May. I'm Billy

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Speaker 1: Fitzsimon's I'm Zara Seidler. In case you're not yet fatigued

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Speaker 1: with all of the politics news recently, We're here to

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Speaker 1: look at a bit of a different angle. Does politics

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Speaker 1: still have a women's problem? This week there have been

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Speaker 1: a number of new party leaders. Susan Lee was elected

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Speaker 1: the first female leader of the Liberal Party and just

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Speaker 1: yesterday Larissa Waters was elected the leader of the Greens.

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Speaker 1: It all comes as we now have more women in

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Speaker 1: Parliament than ever before. So in this episode we're going

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Speaker 1: to look at what the representation of women in politics

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Speaker 1: looks like today.

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Speaker 2: Billy, I just want to start by, I guess outlining

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Speaker 2: you said there a women's problem. I want to start

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Speaker 2: by outlining what that means, and I guess what the

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Speaker 2: metric of that issue and measuring that issue actually is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this has been I think a longstanding sentiment about

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Speaker 1: the workplace culture in Parliament and I guess it's never

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Speaker 1: really had a good reputation when it comes to how

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Speaker 1: women are treated in politics, and I don't think that's

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Speaker 1: something that's unique to Australia. That is a worldwide issue

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Speaker 1: that we see in parliaments all around the world. It

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Speaker 1: is a really broad term, and that's because there are

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Speaker 1: a few different things that kind of fit under that

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Speaker 1: umbrella term. There's the treatment of female politicians by their

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Speaker 1: own party. There's the treatment of female politicians by the media.

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Speaker 1: There's the treatment of female staff members, so not just

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Speaker 1: the politicians, but actually often the young staffers who work

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Speaker 1: for those politicians and how they're treated in parliament. There's

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Speaker 1: also the representation of women in politics, so how many

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Speaker 1: women are actually elected two parts elament to represent their communities.

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Speaker 1: So there's a whole list of things that have historically

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Speaker 1: triggered conversations about parliament being seen as a pretty poor

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Speaker 1: workplace for women. Again, that's a kind of a universal

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Speaker 1: thing that is recognized. If you look to examples, there

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Speaker 1: are many. I think the first one that comes to

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Speaker 1: mind is Julia Gillard, who is from the Labor Party

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Speaker 1: and she was Australia's first ever female prime minister and only,

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Speaker 1: and again it's pretty universally recognized. They think that when

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Speaker 1: she was Prime minister. She was subject to quite sexist

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Speaker 1: commentary and treatment again from within parliament, but then also

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Speaker 1: from the media. There was also Sarah Hanson Young. She

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Speaker 1: is a Green senator and she actually won a defamation

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Speaker 1: case against another senator who made repeated sexist slurs against her.

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Speaker 1: So that kind of goes to how women are treated

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Speaker 1: by their colleagues in parliament. There was also Julia Banks

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Speaker 1: who is a former Liberal MP, and she actually published

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Speaker 1: a book about the culture in politics which she said

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Speaker 1: was underpinned by sexism and misogyny. Now that's barely scratching

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Speaker 1: the surface. I think of all of the different allegations

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Speaker 1: that have come out of Parliament, but I did intentionally

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Speaker 1: their peak, three women from three different parties to highlight

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Speaker 1: that historically this hasn't been a partisan issue. Women from

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Speaker 1: all different parties in Australia have spoken about this sexist

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Speaker 1: culture in parliament.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is really interesting and it appears that at

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Speaker 2: every step of the way for women trying to enter

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Speaker 2: political office there are these barriers to entry, both you know,

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Speaker 2: at the very beginning in terms of actually being pre

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Speaker 2: selected for one of the major parties or minor parties,

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Speaker 2: all the way through to their colleagues, as you referred

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Speaker 2: to earlier, making sexist slurs about them in the media,

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Speaker 2: mistreating them. I do want to, though, just because we

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Speaker 2: are just coming off an election, talk about the beginning

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Speaker 2: of that process, the representation of women in politics and

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Speaker 2: how they are or are not actually getting into parliament

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Speaker 2: in the first place. Can you talk me through where

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Speaker 2: we're at with representation of women in our federal parliament currently.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny, just as you were saying that, I

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Speaker 1: was thinking, as I'd just gone through all of the

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Speaker 1: different allegations that have been leveled in Parliament that they

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Speaker 1: kind of have a really big pr problem in terms

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Speaker 1: of women. You know, you would understand if women didn't

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Speaker 1: want to go into parliament because of all of these allegations.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of commentary about that about why women

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Speaker 2: aren't putting their hands up, and it's because it is

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Speaker 2: known to be so top.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But then I do think that we actually do see

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Speaker 1: a lot of women who do want to go into politics,

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Speaker 1: and after this year's election, there will be more women

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Speaker 1: in Federal Parliament than ever before, and that's in both

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Speaker 1: the House of Representatives and in the Senate. Now, Zara

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Speaker 1: you know this, but the listeners might not know that

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Speaker 1: counting is actually still ongoing beyond I know, and there

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Speaker 1: are still number of seats that are way too close

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Speaker 1: to call.

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Speaker 2: But postal votes are due today today. They have to

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Speaker 2: have been received by the AEC by today. Yes, so

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Speaker 2: this process has to come to an end, just has to.

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Speaker 1: Yes, But already without some seats even called, there are

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Speaker 1: a record number of women elected to parliament. Also, we

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Speaker 1: have already spoken on the pod this week about the

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Speaker 1: fact that Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi unveiled his cabinet this week,

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Speaker 1: and there will also be more women in the cabinet

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Speaker 1: than ever before. I believe the actual cabinet, which is

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Speaker 1: the most senior ministers in government, women hold exactly fifty

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Speaker 1: percent of those positions.

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Speaker 2: I do think it's worth here though, calling out that

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Speaker 2: the Labor Party, so Anthony Albanese's party, does have quotas

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Speaker 2: that they need to meet a specific number of women

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Speaker 2: that need to be represented. Can you talk to me

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Speaker 2: about quotas and where we're at with that right now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, So Labor does have quotas. They actually

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Speaker 1: first introduced quotas in nineteen ninety four. Now how long

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Speaker 1: time ago. Yeah, And how quotas works here is it

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Speaker 1: all has to do with pre selection. So obviously you

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Speaker 1: can't control who gets elected because that's up to the community,

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Speaker 1: that's up to us. But what they can control is

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Speaker 1: who is pre selected, so they can control how many

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Speaker 1: women they choose to be the candidates for the Labor

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Speaker 1: Party in each electorate that they are running in.

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Speaker 2: And just to be really clear when you're referring to

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Speaker 2: pre selection, so that's the process of the party deciding

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Speaker 2: who the candidate in each seat will be. And that's

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Speaker 2: a vote by specific branch members. And there's a whole

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Speaker 2: other conversation to have about the fact that traditionally those

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Speaker 2: branch members have been men and that there is an

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Speaker 2: effort to change that so that there are more women

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Speaker 2: getting up to be pre selected. But that is the

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Speaker 2: earliest stage of someone's political candidacy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And so in nineteen ninety four, Labor introduced

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Speaker 1: a thirty five percent pre selection quota for women. Interesting specifically,

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Speaker 1: they said it had to be in winnable seats.

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Speaker 2: About to say the other thing that oftentimes women are

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Speaker 2: put up in seats that the party can't possibly win.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So in very safe Liberal seats for example. But

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Speaker 1: this specifically said that it had to be thirty five

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Speaker 1: percent of women were pre selected in winnable seats and

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Speaker 1: that had to happen by two thousand and two. Now,

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Speaker 1: this was then replaced in twenty twelve with a forty

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Speaker 1: forty twenty quota. Systems numbers, so many numbers, so that

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Speaker 1: meant that forty percent needed to be women, forty percent

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Speaker 1: needed to be men, and then the remaining twenty percent

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Speaker 1: could be filled by candidates of either gender. And that

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Speaker 1: is still the quota today, although they do have a

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Speaker 1: target of fifty percent of female representation by twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: And how are they tracking.

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Speaker 1: Well, they've actually surpassed it now, so after the last election,

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Speaker 1: at the current count, the Labor Party room will be

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Speaker 1: fifty seven percent women.

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Speaker 2: We'll be back with the rest of the deep dive

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Speaker 2: after a quick note from our sponsor. That is obviously

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Speaker 2: just one side of politics, though, and there has been

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Speaker 2: a lot of discussion since the election about the coalition,

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Speaker 2: or more specifically about the Liberal Party and the representation

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Speaker 2: of women in that party and certainly how the party

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Speaker 2: is relating to female voters. Just this week we had

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Speaker 2: Susan Lee become the first female leader of the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 2: Can you explain how the Liberal Party thinks about representation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Liberal Party is definitely very different to the

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Speaker 1: Liberal Party when it comes to this. They don't have quotas.

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Speaker 1: What they do have though, is targets and that's just

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Speaker 1: a bit different to a quota because it's not a requirement,

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Speaker 1: it's just a general a guidance. Yes, So the Liberal

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Speaker 1: Party set a name about a decade ago now to

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Speaker 1: have fifty percent of female representation in Parliament by twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. So I've chosen a good time to talk.

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Speaker 2: About this because everything's due now.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it has not happened. At last count after the

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Speaker 1: last election, there will be about five potentially six women

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Speaker 1: in the House of Representatives just for the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 1: So that's not including the coalition, but just for the

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Speaker 1: Liberal Party, there will be about five or six women

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Speaker 1: in the House of Representatives. That is not fifty percent

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Speaker 1: of the number of people who were elected.

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Speaker 2: And I've seen a lot of Liberal Party members, whether

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Speaker 2: they be staffers or former senators, former MPs, talking about

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Speaker 2: the fact that maybe the Liberal Party does have to

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Speaker 2: consider implementing quotas. I know that one person, Charlotte Mortlock,

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Speaker 2: who set up Hillmer's Network, which is trying to get

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Speaker 2: more women into the Liberal Party, she started a petition

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Speaker 2: to try and pressure the Liberal Party to adopt quotas,

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Speaker 2: but it doesn't seem like right now they are going

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Speaker 2: to do that. What are some of the arguments against quotas.

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Speaker 1: I think the general argument that always comes up about

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Speaker 1: quotas is the idea that people should be did for

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Speaker 1: jobs or selected for a promotion because they're the best

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Speaker 1: person for the job, and not because a quota needs

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Speaker 1: to be filled. That's the argument against them, and I

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Speaker 1: think there's always this concern that if there are quotas

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Speaker 1: in place, that people won't be getting jobs because of

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Speaker 1: their merit for that role. I think the word merit

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Speaker 1: is the word that keeps coming up when people are

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Speaker 1: arguing against quotas. Just Enterprise, who sits in the Liberal

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Speaker 1: Party room, was actually asked about this the other week, because,

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Speaker 1: like you said, it's a big topic of conversation at

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Speaker 1: the moment. She's against quotas. Here's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: what she told Guy News.

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Speaker 4: You know, I would hate to think that I ever

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Speaker 4: got to my position on the fact that I'm a

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Speaker 4: woman or anything else for that matter. Merit is what

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Speaker 4: is important. Merit is what you need, certainly to be

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Speaker 4: able to fight our fight that we need to fight,

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Speaker 4: as opposed to just putting somebody in a position based

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Speaker 4: on their gender.

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Speaker 2: I am curious though, now that the party is led

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Speaker 2: by a woman in Susan Lee. You know what her

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Speaker 2: position on quotas is.

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Speaker 1: We know what her position was prior to her being

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Speaker 1: elected leader. So in twenty twenty one, she said that

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Speaker 1: she was in favor of quotas, and she told Channel

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Speaker 1: nine Today Show at the time that she believed in

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Speaker 1: a forty percent quota, which I imagine would be similar

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Speaker 1: to exactly what we said Labor has. So again that

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Speaker 1: would mean that women are pre selected by the Liberal

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Speaker 1: Party for forty percent of all the electorates that they

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Speaker 1: are running for in the country. But then after she

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Speaker 1: was elected the leader earlier this week, she was asked

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Speaker 1: by a journalist what her views are on quotas. Now

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Speaker 1: here is a little bit of what she said.

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Speaker 3: I want to say right here and now, we need

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Speaker 3: more women in our party. We need more women in

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Speaker 3: our party organization, We need more women in this party room.

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Speaker 3: Had we done better at the last election, we would

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Speaker 3: have outstanding women in this party room. And I don't

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Speaker 3: want to name one or two because I know I'm

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Speaker 3: going to miss two or three.

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Speaker 1: So she did say that they need more women in

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Speaker 1: the Liberal Party, but she didn't say that she was

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Speaker 1: in favor of quotas now, and I imagine she has

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Speaker 1: to be much more careful about what she says, considering

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Speaker 1: she's the leader, and I guess it's not entirely up

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Speaker 1: to her, but she definitely obviously holds more weight today

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Speaker 1: than she did into any trainy one.

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Speaker 2: And I do think that it's worth just finishing this

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Speaker 2: conversation by saying that the discussion about quotas is not

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Speaker 2: unique to the Labor Party, the Liberal Party politics itself.

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Speaker 2: It's a conversation that's unfolding across boardrooms, across companies everywhere

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Speaker 2: around the world. This discussion about how to get more

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Speaker 2: women into leadership roles is certainly one that is being

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Speaker 2: had everywhere. And because these politicians work for us and

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Speaker 2: represent us, you know, it does become quite a microcosm

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Speaker 2: for this discussion. But certainly we'll be keeping an eye

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Speaker 2: on the Liberal Party to get a sense of if

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Speaker 2: there is going to be movement on this issue.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think one more thing to mention is

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Speaker 1: that obviously this is just a ten minute podcast and

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Speaker 1: if we had more time, I think it's also worth

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Speaker 1: a discussion that, you know, women in parliament is one thing,

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Speaker 1: but there are so many other ways that you can

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Speaker 1: have quotas that would represent the diversity of Australia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really good point to end on. Billy,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for taking us through that. Thank

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Speaker 2: you and thank you for joining us for another week

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Speaker 2: of the Daily os. If you want to help this

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Speaker 2: podcast grow, the best way you can do that is

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Speaker 2: by hitting follow on whatever platform you are listening to

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Speaker 2: us on. We so appreciate your support and we'll see

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Speaker 2: you next week.

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Speaker 4: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 4: Bunjelung Kalkutin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 4: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 4: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 4: Strait Island and nations.

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Speaker 1: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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Speaker 1: both past and present,