1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. I'm an 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the founder of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: finding ways to optimize my work date. This episode is 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: another my favorite Tip episode. The titles probably pretty self explanatory. 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: It's about my favorite tip from each of the interviews 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: I conduct. So I use this format because I sometimes 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: feel as a podcast listener myself, I just want to 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: get in, get the most amount of value from an episode, 11 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 1: and then get it out, So in this format I 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: try to do just that. My guest today is Natasha Pinkus. 13 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: Natasha is a writer and director who is probably most 14 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: well known for her very distinctive music videos that she's 15 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: created for artists like Paul Kelly, Missy Higgins, and Powderfinger. 16 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: Where you're probably most familiar with her work, though, is 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: through her video for Gaudio's Somebody That I Used to 18 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: Know No, which has been viewed over one billion, yes 19 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: one billion times on YouTube and was awarded the first 20 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: of Natasha's back to back Arias for Best Music Video 21 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: and was also nominated for the MTV Award for Best 22 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: Music Video. In this clip, Natasha talks about how she 23 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: uses location and clothing to delineate the different parts of 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: her day and how these cues essentially fast track her 25 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,919 Speaker 1: ability to get into the thinking zone that she needs 26 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: to be in. So on that note, over to Natasha, I. 27 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: Used to have an office space, and I used to 28 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 2: use that to delineate the different parts of my practice. 29 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 2: So'd go there to do the editing for videos or 30 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 2: production type work meetings and so on, and then I 31 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: would reserve my screenwriting work for home, and now I 32 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: could change modes. Recently, last year or so, I actually 33 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 2: closed my office down because we'll partly is an ow 34 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: a dog and the pooch couldn't come to the office, 35 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: But also because I actually found other ways of partitioning 36 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: that didn't require sort of I guess those shifts, of 37 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: geographical shifts, I recommend them to people, but I don't 38 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: at the moment in my life, I don't need them. 39 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: There are more hindrance. 40 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: Because how do you petition now? 41 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 2: I guess in some ways I still maybe partition geographically. 42 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 2: I might move to a different part of their house apartment, 43 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: I partition in the day, and I might even change 44 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: my clothes. 45 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: See partition in the day. What do you. 46 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: Changing? I think, without thinking about it, I do change 47 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: my clothes. 48 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: Let's let's let's talk about petitioning the day first. So 49 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: are you kind of saying you'll do certain types of 50 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: work in the morning versus like, what does what does 51 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: that look like? 52 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 2: So if I'm doing my deep creative work, which is 53 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: my discovery work. So if that's creative work for say 54 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: music video idea or that first draft of screenplay stuff 55 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: I was talking about, it's morning, and I can get 56 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 2: some really good stuff done later in the day. Absolutely, 57 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 2: And sometimes they're sprints, so I might for example, a 58 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: good sprint time for me is between say fourth thirty 59 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: and six like that kind of just before the end 60 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: of the day. Quickly get this out, and then I 61 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: find that with that kind of really curtailed period, I 62 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: can actually get some gems. But generally speaking, first three 63 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: hours are my best, my best creative work. And ideally 64 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 2: I've not spoken, I've not done anything, and I won't 65 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: have put any other input in. I won't have read 66 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: the paper. I love reading the paper in the morning. 67 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 2: I'm an old school physical newspaper. That's a great ritual. 68 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: But when I'm doing my deep creative work, I will 69 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 2: roll out of bed and roll into the computer and 70 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: it's almost like a dream state. I think, what it 71 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: does is it for me? It means I haven't even 72 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: kind of assumed my identity yet. I feel, really, God, 73 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: this is going to sound really kind of you know 74 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: ARTI farty, but truthfully, it feels almost much more like 75 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: you're kind of a medium in that way. You're just 76 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 2: there's nothing interfering that sort. There's no nothing's providing static 77 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: between the inspiration and the outcome. Whereas the more and 78 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 2: more I live in the world, whether that's as me 79 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: because of my clothing, because I'm answering an email as 80 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: me with my name, because I'm using my voice, because 81 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 2: I'm contacting the everyday kind of you know, exigencies of life. 82 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 2: Now there's a step between the mind and the fingers, 83 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: and there's a mind and the screen, and I kind 84 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: of it gets polluted. It's just not as not as fluent, 85 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: not as clean. I don't trust the ideas as much, 86 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: so I try to protect that. And not only that, 87 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 2: it's also because crap comes in, people come in you know, 88 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: work life, everything interferes, and next thing you know, you're 89 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,239 Speaker 2: being diverted in one hundred different directions. 90 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: I want to come back to the clothes. What are 91 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: you doing with your wardrobe through the day. 92 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: Well, I've got a lot of wardroom changes. Yeah. Actually 93 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 2: I've never spoken about this before. Like an actor, Yeah, 94 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: well you are right. I mean you get cues from 95 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 2: things color wise physically. I noticed it the first time 96 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: when I was a lot younger. I was like a 97 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: lot younger. I was actually an actor. Funnily enough, maybe 98 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 2: this is where it comes from. And I noticed I 99 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 2: wasn't like when I when I say actor, I was 100 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 2: a kid actor. So I wasn't like an actor, you know. 101 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 2: I wasn't like trained and knew what I was doing. 102 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 2: I was just performing cash. That sounds wrong, but I 103 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: noticed after a while that I'd wear the same thing 104 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 2: go and auditions. They are in rehearsals, which was always 105 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: like a uniform, like blue jeans, black T shirt. It 106 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: was just what I wore and on set I always 107 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 2: tend to wear the same sort of clothes. And I thought, 108 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: what is it about this? And I realize, obviously you 109 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: get you start teaching yourself training yourself into certain modes 110 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: of being and thinking depending on what you wear and 111 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: like sometimes you can be in controller, sometimes you get 112 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 2: a surprise. But for me, a color can make a difference. 113 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: How comfortable you are makes a difference. And so when 114 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: I'm doing my hard work in the morning, I like 115 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: to be as comfortable as possible. It's just tracking is 116 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: as basic. I've got like a house clothes, like a 117 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: set of wardrobe for house clothes. But this when I 118 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: need to change from that that, I'll put something on. 119 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 2: I'll put my Janes on like I'm about to do 120 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: something even though I'm still going to be at home. 121 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: Or I'll put shoes on, which is a big one. 122 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 2: For some reason, I hold myself differently in my seat. 123 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: I feel different. I do most of my phone calls 124 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: in motion. That's a big one for me as well. 125 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: So in motion, like when you're walking or driving. 126 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: Oh ideally either ideally walking because I may as well 127 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 2: because I need to get my steps up anyway, Hey 128 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 2: but I'm sitting's going to kill you. But I may 129 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 2: as well walk because I get a good fluency of 130 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: thought and I'm multitasking but also attached it to win. 131 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 2: If I'm driving in Melbourne's traffic is terrifle. Terrifule is 132 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: a word. I mean that as an actual word terrorize 133 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 2: you and is horrible. And I've to kind of just, 134 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: you know, get those calls done while I'm traveling from 135 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 2: Port Au to Bay. But if not all, at least 136 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: emulate that by putting my shoes on. 137 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: Hm. 138 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: That sounds wacky, hey, but I think it's important. You've 139 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: got to be open with yourself about what works. 140 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: Hello, there it is me again. Now. Something I was 141 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: particularly fascinated by in this excerpt is the idea of 142 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: a wardrobe. So I know, for me, movement is really 143 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: important and punctuating my breaks with moving around, especially when 144 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: I'm doing a big chunk of deep work at my desk. 145 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: So for me, like you'll never ever see me wearing 146 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: heels or anything uncomfortable for that matter, on my feet 147 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: or elsewhere because it restricts my movement. And they never 148 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: actually learned how to walk in heels, which is very bizarre, 149 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: I know. And when I'm working from home and look, 150 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: even sometimes when I'm working from the office and don't 151 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: have client meetings, I'll often wear active weir and by 152 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: that I mean trackies or leggings and runners because I 153 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: want to be as comfortable as possible when I'm working, 154 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: and personally, I've never been a fan of the corporate 155 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: dress code. I feel like it just serves to make 156 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: us feel less like ourselves and more like we're putting 157 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: on a mask when we come into the office. I mean, sure, 158 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: it looks professional, and perhaps it's signals that we're a 159 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: bit more professional and trustworthy and all that, but I 160 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: don't know. I think that seems like a big trade 161 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: off when what we wear affects how we think can 162 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: act so much. So that's it for today. If you 163 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: like this excerpt, you might want to listen to my 164 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: full chat with Natasha, which I link to in the 165 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: show notes. And if you're enjoying How I Work, I 166 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: would love it if you could take just five seconds 167 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: to leave a review in Apple Podcasts or wherever you 168 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: listen to this podcast. Leaving reviews actually makes it easier 169 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: for other people to find how I work. And thank 170 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: you to all the amazing people who have left five 171 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: star reviews and written some lovely words. It really does 172 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: make my day. So that's it for today, and I'll 173 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: see you next time.