1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the daily This is 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: the daily. 3 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 2: Ohs oh, now it makes sense. 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 3: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday, 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 3: the fourth of March. 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: I'm Zara, I'm Sam. 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 3: Students who complete placements as part of their degree shouldn't 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 3: suffer financially. That's according to a new recommendation from an 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 3: independent review of universities that was released last week. 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 4: The university reforms could see taxpayers subsidized students on workplacement. 11 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 4: I've spoken to teaching students and nursing students who've told 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 4: me that they've done the theory, but they can't afford 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 4: to do the pracks, so they drop out. Well, they 14 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 4: end up sleeping in a car because they can't afford 15 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 4: to pay the rent. 16 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 3: It comes after the federal government asked the university's a 17 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 3: Courts Panel for some advice on ways to improve the sector. 18 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 3: In its final report, the panel called for an end 19 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 3: to what's called placement poverty. We're going to get into 20 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 3: what that could mean for university students in today's deep dive, 21 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 3: but first Sam, he's making headlines. 22 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: The Labour Party has retained the seat of Dunkley with 23 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: the Australian Electoral Commission estimating Labour's Jody Bellier has secured 24 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: enough votes to win the seat. A by election was 25 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: called in the Southeast Melbourne seat after the death of 26 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: Government m P Peter Murphy last year. Bellier ran against 27 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: Liberal candidate Nathan Conroy, who is the mayor of Frankston. 28 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: Labour's primary vote was uper point eight percent compared to 29 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: the last time the seat was contested in twenty twenty two, 30 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: but there was an estimated four percent swing away from 31 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: the Government in the two party preferred vote. 32 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 3: New in match pauses will allow a league players who 33 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 3: are observing Ramadan to break their fast during evening matches. 34 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 3: During the month's long religious observation, Muslim people worldwide will 35 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: fast during daylight hours. Australia's Professional Soccer Association has announced 36 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 3: that players who were fasting will be able to request 37 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: breaks of up to ninety seconds during games this Ramadan 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: to each drink and pray. The association said that athletes 39 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 3: have been working with nutritionists to ensure they are supported 40 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: through training and games. Ramadum begins later this month. 41 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: The US air dropped food into Gaza over the weekend 42 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: with three military planes parachuting in about thirty eight thousand 43 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: meals for civilians. The mission was done in coordination with Jordan. 44 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: Over the weekend, US President Joe Biden posted on x 45 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: He said, the amount of aid flowing into Gaza is 46 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: not nearly enough, and we will continue to pull out 47 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: every stop we can to get more aid in. 48 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 3: And the good news. New analysis suggests that over seven 49 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: hundred thousand low income households in the US could receive 50 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 3: free access to solar power under a government funded clean 51 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 3: energy program worth seven billion US dollars. The program was 52 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 3: first announced last year and followed research showing the median 53 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 3: income of solar powered households in the US was seventy 54 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 3: percent higher than the overall national median household income. So 55 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 3: SAM a new recommendation has been made to the federal 56 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 3: government and basically says that students who complete placements as 57 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 3: part of their degree shouldn't suffer financially. Instead, they should 58 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 3: receive some sort of assistance to avoid falling into what's 59 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 3: called placement poverty. 60 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: This is so interesting. 61 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 3: I think it is too, and I also know that 62 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 3: it's one that would matter a lot to our audience. 63 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 3: I think that you know there are probably some people 64 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 3: who are commuting listening to this on the way to 65 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 3: their unpaid placement where they're going five days a week 66 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 3: in some cases. 67 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: And so why are we talking about unpaid placements today? 68 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 3: So the federal government asked the University's Accords Panel, which 69 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 3: is basically just a body aimed at improving the quality 70 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 3: of higher education in Australia, to provide some advice on 71 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 3: ways to improve the tertiary sector. Now, the panel is 72 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 3: made up of six higher education professionals and throughout this 73 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 3: long process, the panel spoke to students, it spoke to 74 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 3: education providers, some organizations, and then it combed through hundreds 75 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 3: of public submissions. In the end last week, the panel 76 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 3: handed down its final report and it contained a whopping 77 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 3: forty seven recommendations for the government on how to create 78 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 3: change in Australia's higher education system, specifically so that it 79 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 3: can meet future skills needs. 80 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: And I imagine that across forty seven recommendations there was 81 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: a huge variety of topics covered. We obviously can't cover 82 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: forty seven things in this podcast. What are we going 83 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: to talk about? 84 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 3: You're right, we can't. And I took the direction from 85 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 3: our newsrooms. So as soon as this story was pitched, 86 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 3: everyone was really gravitating towards one of the recommendations, and 87 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,799 Speaker 3: it was recommendation fourteen, and that's about placements that students 88 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 3: are required to do at university. I do think that 89 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 3: there's an element of this that sparks so much interest 90 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 3: in our newsroom because so many of our journals had 91 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 3: to do those places. 92 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: It feels like a really common experience, not just in 93 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: the newsroom but with all our friends. 94 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 3: And it is so just to lay out the context 95 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 3: if you are perhaps a bit out of that age demographic. 96 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 3: So students across a range of degrees, things like teaching 97 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 3: and nursing have to complete practical placements and professional training. 98 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 3: Placements are typically unpaid and they can last anywhere from 99 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 3: several weeks to several months. And to give you a 100 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 3: sense of what this can look like, students enrolled in 101 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 3: nursing degrees must complete eight hundred hours in a clinic 102 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: or a hospital. Midwives need one thousand, six hundred hours. Then, 103 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 3: in some cases, students have to live or work remotely 104 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 3: as part of their course. I know many people who 105 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: are studying medicine who have had to move rurally. But 106 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 3: then also can't afford this relocation because they're not getting 107 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 3: paid for the work that they're doing. And so the 108 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 3: issue that's arisen is that many students are doing these 109 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,799 Speaker 3: sometimes full time placements, and they therefore don't have any 110 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 3: time to actually earn money because they're busy working unpaid 111 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 3: full time. Here's a TDA listener sharing her experience as 112 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 3: a physio student. 113 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 2: So I'm in my last year of studies. I am 114 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 2: studying phyzerotherapy and as a requirement to graduate, we must 115 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: attend placements from eight to four and sometimes five pm, 116 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: depending on your placement, and during that time we do 117 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 2: not get paid a single cent of money. We do 118 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: not get any accommodation allowances, any travel fees, any food expenses, 119 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: nothing like that. And for domestic students, we must attend 120 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: RULE even though we are not preferencing if we want 121 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 2: to go rule or not. And if you do get 122 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: placed in replacements, we get a little bit of money, 123 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: but not enough that we can live on during our 124 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: five weeks there so a lot of us would have 125 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 2: to seize our job, how casual, our part time jobs 126 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: to accommodate our time for this, and a lot of 127 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: my friends had been saving up just so that they 128 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: have enough money to attend placements, and when they graduate, 129 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: they will be ending up with no money because they 130 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: have been using their savings throughout their time on placements, 131 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 2: which is one big concern that we are having at 132 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: the moment. 133 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the state of play when we're talking 134 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: about unpaid placements. I think something else that often comes 135 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: up anecdotally for me is, yeah, they could get a 136 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: job at night, but you're so exhausted by the time 137 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: you finish. 138 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 3: I mean, there are very few people who can say 139 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 3: that they are okay to work five days a week unpaid, 140 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 3: then do their extra university work and then work at 141 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 3: night Like that is an unbelievable burden for people to bear. 142 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: And so what did the report say about that burden? 143 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 3: So I'll read out the recommendation word for work now. 144 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 3: It said that to reduce the financial hardship and placement 145 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 3: poverty caused by mandatory unpaid placements, the Australian Government should 146 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 3: work with tertiary education providers, state and territory governments, industry, 147 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 3: business and unions to introduce financial support for unpaid work placements. 148 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 3: This should include funding by governments for the nursing care 149 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 3: and teaching professions, and funding by employers generally either public 150 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 3: or private for other fields. The report went on to 151 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 3: speak of this concept of placement poverty, and it said 152 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: that the financial burden of compulsory placements meant that many 153 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 3: students were having poor early experiences in the workplace. I mean, 154 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 3: if your first touch point with an industry is that 155 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 3: you're working like a dog and not getting paid for it, 156 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 3: no wonder you have these negative perceptions. And the report 157 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 3: was pretty clear. It labeled financial support as essential for 158 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 3: ensuring that enough students can meet their placement requirements without 159 00:08:58,360 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: falling into poverty. 160 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: There is a really clear bit of guidance there for 161 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: the government to look at. Either financially supporting students who 162 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: have to do these placements, or you risk pushing these 163 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: students into a state of financial stress. Has the government 164 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: responded to that recommendation They have so. 165 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 3: We heard from Federal Education Minister Jason Clare last week. 166 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: He said that. 167 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: Paying students for placements sounded like a good idea. He 168 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 3: also said that governments must quote work together on the issue, 169 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 3: which he said can be the difference between whether students 170 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 3: finish their degree or not. He said that the nature 171 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: of work placements in Australia had forced students to choose 172 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 3: between dropping out or sleeping in a car. So I 173 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 3: mean pretty clear there that he's agreeing with the position 174 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 3: taken in that report. When we get to the opposition, 175 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 3: they say that the government is taking too long to 176 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 3: come up with a plan. So Shadow Education Minister Sarah 177 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 3: Henderson said that Jason Clair had been sitting on the 178 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 3: report for two months, so that the government had been 179 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 3: handed this report and had only made it public two 180 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 3: months later. That was a claim there. She also criticized 181 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 3: the government for delivering no plans or priorities for Australian universities. 182 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,719 Speaker 1: So it was a huge report and I'm just going 183 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: to take your word for it that you read it 184 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: all and looked at all the forty seven recommendations. Were 185 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: there any other parts of the report that jumped out 186 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: at you as as particularly interesting. 187 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 3: I thought that it was interesting that the report called 188 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 3: for better access to higher education for those students who 189 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 3: actually didn't complete high school. I think that this is 190 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 3: a conversation that perhaps gets lost at times. So here 191 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 3: we're talking about prep courses that basically teach students skills 192 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 3: that are required for that undergraduate study, so they can 193 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 3: last a few weeks or a whole year, and unis 194 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 3: run them for those people, as I said, who don't 195 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 3: finish high school or whose year twelve marks don't qualify 196 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 3: them for their preferred course. Now, in twenty twenty two, 197 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 3: about twenty five thousand students took prep courses and eighty 198 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 3: eight percent of places were supported by government funding. So 199 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 3: on this topic scifically, the report recommended more fee free 200 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 3: places in prep courses as a way of reducing education 201 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 3: barriers for those students who come from disadvantage backgrounds. So specifically, 202 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 3: the report spoke about proposed legislation to protect the number 203 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 3: of government supported spots in prep courses and to ensure 204 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 3: long term access to higher education for all Lozzies. As 205 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 3: I said, though, there were a number of recommendations, and 206 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: so if you are interested in learning more about the 207 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 3: reform in this space, I will throw a link to 208 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 3: the full report in today's show notes and you can 209 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 3: have a read in your own time. 210 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of The 211 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: Daily Os. I'd love to know what you think about 212 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,119 Speaker 1: this issue and any experiences you had with unpaid placements. 213 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: Maybe you're in one right now. As Sarah you said 214 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: right at the top. You can leave those comments if 215 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 1: you're listening in Spotify, or you can hit us up 216 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: on Instagram. We'll be back again tomorrow. Until then, have 217 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: a good start to the week. My name is Lily 218 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: Madden and I'm a pre proud Arunda Banjelung Calcuttin woman 219 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: from Gadaghl Country. 220 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 221 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 222 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: all Aboriginal and torrest Rate island and nations. We pay 223 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 2: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both 224 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: past and present.