1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It is 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: the twenty first of April, Happy Thursday. We're nearly at 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 1: another long weekend. It was a big night last night 4 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: for Australian politics with the first Leader's Debate on between 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: Prime Minists Scott Morrison and Opposition Leader Anthony Alberizi. But 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: that actually wasn't the only news from yesterday, Zara, what 7 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: was the big story from yesterday? 8 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: If you are in New South Wales and Victoria, there 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: was an easing of COVID restrictions announced yesterday. They'll come 10 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: into effect this Friday night. Both states have removed the 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: seven day isolation period for close contacts of COVID cases. 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: As Sam, I'm sure you're delighted to hear after having 13 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 2: done your seven days, as well as the scrapping of 14 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: hotel quarantine in New South Wales and vaccination checks in 15 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 2: Victorian venues. 16 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: Some big changes there. Meanwhile, in Victoria, Guide Dogs Victoria 17 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: has launched an investigation after its CEO Karen Hayes publicly 18 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: endorsed Josh Fridenberg in the seat of Couyong. Has appeared 19 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: on social media posts and a pamphlet which may be 20 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: in breach of charity regulations that banned political endorsements. Guide 21 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: Dogs Victoria stated they had no knowledge of the campaign. 22 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 2: The Chinese government has announced it assigned a security cooperation 23 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: agreement with Solomon Islands. The Australian government says it's deeply 24 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: disappointed and has asked for more clarity on the terms 25 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 2: of the agreement as it could quote undermine stability in 26 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: our region. 27 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: And today's good news comes from the United States of America, 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: where the Department of Education has canceled student loan debt 29 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: for forty thousand lower income students and offered another three 30 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: point six million students credit to assist in the paying 31 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: off of their loans. The debate about a national anti 32 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: corruption commission has made headlines this week, and when we 33 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: ask you in one of our polls on Instagram what 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: mattered ahead of the upcome election, integrity in politics came 35 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: up a lot. The government promised to establish an anti 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: corruption commission at the last election, but we still don't 37 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: have one today. They say it's because Labor won't support 38 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 1: their proposal. Labour says the proposal is inadequate and promises 39 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: to establish a stronger commission by the end of the 40 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: year if it wins the election. Zira, Let's take a 41 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: few steps back here. What is an anti corruption commission? 42 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: Okay? So, an anti corruption commission is an independent body 43 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 2: that can investigate corruption or improper behavior by public officials, 44 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: and now that includes politicians. And it might sound familiar 45 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 2: to you because we were speaking a lot about Ikak 46 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: last year. That is the New South Wales version of 47 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: an anti corruption commission, and they announced that they were 48 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: investigating former Premier Gladysbury jicklian I was advised. 49 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 3: Late yesterday afternoon the Independent Commission against Corruption will today 50 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 3: release a public state in which it will state it 51 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 3: is investigating allegations made about me concerning matters relating to 52 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 3: the full humbucks for wal the water. 53 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 2: Now, New South Wales isn't on its own here. Every 54 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: state and territory has an anti corruption commission with some 55 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 2: name or another. Their powers vary, but they usually investigate 56 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 2: not just crimes which police can already investigate, but a 57 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 2: broader range of improper behavior, whatever that might look like. Now, 58 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: the big thing, and the reason we're talking about this 59 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 2: in the lead up to the federal election is that 60 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 2: while there are state and territory based commissions. There is 61 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: no anti corruption commission at a federal level. 62 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: So let's go through the government's proposal a little slower. 63 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: What are the key attributes of what Scott Morrison's team 64 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: is offering up. 65 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: In the last election campaign, both major parties promised to 66 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 2: establish an anti corruption commission if elected. Now, the government 67 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: released a draft proposal in twenty twenty for what it 68 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: called a Commonwealth Integrity Commission, and give that there has 69 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: been quite a bit of time that has lapsed since 70 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: that time. There's been a bit of expert weighing in 71 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: on what this proposal actually looks like. And the Center 72 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: for Public Integrity called the proposal and they didn't mince 73 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 2: words here. They called it a sham designed to hide corruption. 74 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: They said that the draft used a narrow definition of 75 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: corrupt conduct, that it required investigations to be kept secret, 76 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: and that it prevented investigations into anything that happened before 77 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 2: the commission was established. The Grantin Institute, which is an 78 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: economic think tank, identified similar shortcomings, saying that this proposal 79 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: lacked real teeth because it only allowed referrals from government 80 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 2: agencies and not from the public, the media or whistleblowers. 81 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: But despite all this, and despite publishing the draft in 82 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 2: twenty twenty in the early days of the pandemic, the 83 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 2: Government has not yet introduced legislation to establish its proposed 84 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 2: Commonwealth Integrity Commission Parliament. 85 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: So just some. 86 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: Civics one oh one. Even if you release draft proposals, 87 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: you do need to table that and introduce it to 88 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 2: Parliament for it to then be debated and either passed 89 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: or not passed in the House and the Senate. So 90 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: none of that has happened. And last week we spoke 91 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 2: to a Government senator. Her name is Amanda Stoker and 92 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: she is the Assistant Minister to the Attorney General, so 93 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: she helps out michayleea cash with all things legal. And 94 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 2: what she said to TDA was that the reason that 95 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 2: no legislation had been passed or indeed put in front 96 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 2: of Parliament was because of Labor. She said that because Labor, 97 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: the Greens and other senators had opposed the government's draft, 98 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: there was ultimately no point putting it to a vote. 99 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: Here is Senator Stoker speaking to us last week. 100 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 4: In our efforts to fulfill that promise, put that forward 101 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 4: to all the different parties in the Parliament and it 102 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 4: was very clear on the response that we got that 103 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 4: neither Labor nor the Greens and only some of the 104 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 4: independents would be prepared to support it. 105 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: I'll just jump in here to say that the government 106 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 2: doesn't have a majority on its own in the Senate, 107 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: so it actually does need the support of either Labor 108 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 2: or some cross bench senators, but it certainly doesn't rely 109 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 2: on Labor. There have been many times where controversial legislation 110 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: has been passed by the Government with the help of 111 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: the Crossbench. But indeed the government maintains that because they 112 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: didn't get the support of Labor, they didn't introduce this bill. 113 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: So ultimately there the government is taking this Commonwealth Integrity 114 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: Commission back to the electorate, kind of making this argument 115 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: that it didn't pass parliament because of some difficult opposition. 116 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: What did the Labor Party have to say about the proposal? 117 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 2: The Labor Party and specifically the Shadow Attorney General Mark Dreyfus, 118 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: said that the government's draft showed that they weren't serious 119 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 2: about ever introducing an anti corruption commission. Here's Mark Dreyfus. 120 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 5: That the Morrison government hasn't on it. So we've gone 121 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 5: through a whole term of government and they haven't kept 122 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 5: their promise to establish a National Anti corruption Commission. 123 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: He went on to say that the fact that the 124 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: government's proposal would not allow past issues or retrospective issues 125 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: to be investigated was a sign that the government was 126 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: quote scared of its improper behavior being investigated. He also 127 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 2: echoed some of those earlier criticisms I alluded to that 128 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: the model doesn't allow for public investigations or for members 129 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: of the public to refer allegations. 130 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: We've got a clear understanding of the government's policy in 131 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: this area, but I'd be interested to know what the 132 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: Labor Party are offering in response to it. Do we 133 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: have any indications? 134 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: We got as good as an indication as we're going 135 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 2: to get over the weekend. Over the long weekend, Opposition 136 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: leader Anthony Alberzi announced that Labor would introduce a National 137 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: Anti Corruption Commission by the end of the year if 138 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: they were elected, so by the end of twenty twenty two, 139 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: making it a top priority if Labor was elected. Now 140 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 2: they haven't published a draft bill, but Labor has committed 141 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: to giving the commission broad scope power to act on 142 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: public referrals, so that point I alluded to before and 143 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: power to hold public hearings like we saw with Gladisbury 144 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 2: Joclian in New South Wales. When we think about how 145 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: it went down with Gladysbury Juiclian, there was quite a 146 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: lot of pushback at the time from the Government of 147 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: the day and Prime Minister Scott Morrison made comments in Parliament. 148 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: He called what was happening to Gladysbury Jiclian a kangaroo 149 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: court and said that he didn't want to see a 150 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: national model with similar powers because he said that Aikak's 151 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 2: public investigations of her were a disgrace. So it's unlikely 152 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 2: that we would see a re elected coalition government introduce 153 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 2: anything that resembled that New South Wales model, and Senator Stoker, 154 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: when we asked her about this, said the public hearings 155 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: and public referrals would result in quote unjustly dragging down 156 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 2: the reputations of politicians. 157 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: And Zara's around out this discussion, have we heard anything 158 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: on integrity and corruption from the cross bench. 159 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 2: We have the Greens and several independent MPs oppose the 160 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 2: government's proposal, and in fact an independent MP, Helen Haynes, 161 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 2: she's actually introduced her own bill to Parliament for a 162 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 2: federal Integrity Commission that includes public accountability and broader powers. 163 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: But given the composition of the Lower House and the 164 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: nature of the Parliament and the issue that didn't get up, 165 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 2: but it will be interesting to see post election what 166 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: happens in that realm. 167 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: It does seem like this integrity body and the wider 168 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: issue of government corruption is going to be a topic 169 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: of conversation long beyond this election. It seems that Australia 170 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: is having a real reckoning with this topic on a 171 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: federal and state level. Zara, thanks so much for the chat. 172 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: That's all we've got time for today on the Daily OS. 173 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: But if you want to take a deeper dive into 174 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: plugging some holes and gaps in your knowledge, make sure 175 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: to check out the latest episode of No Silly Questions. Today, 176 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: Billion Tom are breaking down the difference between the House 177 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: of Representatives and the Senate. It's unbelievably important to get 178 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: your head around that. It comes up in heaps of 179 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: news pieces in under ten minutes. They will look after 180 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: that for you. That's all we've got time for today 181 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: on this podcast, though we'll speak to you tomorrow.