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Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the daily.

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Speaker 2: Ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,

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Speaker 3: the tenth of June.

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Speaker 1: I'm emma, I'm Billy.

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Speaker 3: The peak body for unions in Australia has launched a

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Speaker 3: nationwide campaign to scrap junior wages and give eighteen to

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Speaker 3: twenty year olds the same minimum wage as everyone else.

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Speaker 3: In case you didn't know, Australia's laws legally allow young workers,

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Speaker 3: meaning those under twenty one, to be paid less than

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Speaker 3: their older co workers, even if they're performing the same job.

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Speaker 1: But unions are wanting to change that. So can it

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Speaker 1: be done?

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Speaker 3: We'll explore the answer to that question in today's deep dive,

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Speaker 3: But first, Billy, what's making headlines?

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Speaker 2: A body has been found on the Greek island of Simi,

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Speaker 2: where high profile doctor Michael Moseley was reported missing on Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: The British doctor is best known for popularizing the interminute

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Speaker 2: fasting five to two diet. The sixty seven year old

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Speaker 2: went for a walk on Wednesday afternoon and was reported

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Speaker 2: missing by his wife, doctor Claire Bailey, when he failed

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Speaker 2: to return from his walk. The body is yet to

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Speaker 2: be formally identified.

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Speaker 3: New South Wales has passed new bail reforms aimed at

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Speaker 3: addressing a spike in domestic violence offenses in the state.

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Speaker 3: Under the changes, electronic monitoring devices such as ankle bracelets

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Speaker 3: will be compulsory for anyone on bail for serious domestic

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Speaker 3: violence offenses. It will also be harder for those alleged

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Speaker 3: defenders to get bail. Legislation passed the state parliament with

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Speaker 3: support from the New South Wales opposition. The state's Premier,

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Speaker 3: Chris Mins, called the laws long overdue and said the

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Speaker 3: bail reforms will help keep women and children safer.

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Speaker 2: The chairman of Nine Entertainment, Peter Costello, has resigned after

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Speaker 2: Costello was accused of shoving a journalist at Canberra Airport

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Speaker 2: last week while the journalist was attempting to film and

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Speaker 2: interview him. In a statement, Nine CEO Mike Sneezebe said

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Speaker 2: I want to thank Peter for his contribution to nine

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Speaker 2: over more than a decade. He will be replaced by

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Speaker 2: Deputy chair Catherine West.

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Speaker 3: And today's good news, over two hundred children with high

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Speaker 3: risk forms of cancer have entered full or partial remission

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Speaker 3: or had their cancers stabilized, thanks to a world first

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Speaker 3: Australian study, researchers from the University of New South Wales

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Speaker 3: successfully used precise treatments and genome sequencing to shrink tumors

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Speaker 3: in fifty five percent of patients over a period of

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Speaker 3: around eighteen months. A senior author of the research said

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Speaker 3: the treatment also led to a significant improvement in long

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Speaker 3: term survival for those patients. Okay, Billy, so we're talking

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Speaker 3: about junior wages today.

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Speaker 1: What happened last week.

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Speaker 2: So this was a major story at the end of

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Speaker 2: last week. So some of Australia's biggest union groups have

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Speaker 2: called on the Fair Work Commission, which is Australia's workplace regulator,

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Speaker 2: to abolish junior pay for workers between the ages of

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Speaker 2: eighteen and twenty. So, like you said in the intro,

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Speaker 2: m young employees across a range of industries including fast

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Speaker 2: food and hospitality where a lot of young people are

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Speaker 2: working currently earn below the minimum.

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Speaker 1: Award wages for adults.

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Speaker 2: And what the unions are saying is that if someone

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Speaker 2: is legally considered an adult, so over the age of eighteen,

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Speaker 2: and they can vote, they can drink, then they should

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Speaker 2: be paid as an adult.

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Speaker 3: You've mentioned the word junior pay, And I guess for me,

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Speaker 3: when I heard this story last week, I was surprised

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Speaker 3: to think of anyone over eighteen categorized as a junior.

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Speaker 1: So can you tease that out a little bit more?

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Speaker 1: What does that actually mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm the same. I have to admit my ignorance.

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Speaker 2: I actually didn't know that this was a thing, that

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Speaker 2: there was a difference if you were eighteen versus twenty one.

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Speaker 2: This all relates to something called awards, which many employees

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Speaker 2: are subject to in different industries, and they set out

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Speaker 2: minimum pay and working conditions, and in all awards there

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Speaker 2: is something called junior rates, which apply to people under

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Speaker 2: the age of twenty one. Now, award wages are different

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Speaker 2: in all industries. So there's an award wage for journalism,

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Speaker 2: there's one for fast food, for hospitality. But let's take

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Speaker 2: the fast food industry as an example, because I think

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Speaker 2: it's again where lots of young people work. I actually

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Speaker 2: worked at Dominos, so I thought it was applicable to

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Speaker 2: me and I wanted to use it as an example.

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Speaker 3: And it's shaped Philly's terrible taste in pizza to this day.

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Speaker 1: That is true.

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Speaker 2: But getting back to the topic, so under the fast

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Speaker 2: food Industry Award, a fifteen year old is entitled to

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Speaker 2: just forty percent of the adult minimum wage. So the

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Speaker 2: minimum hourly rate for an adult fast food employee is

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Speaker 2: about twenty five dollars, and a fifteen year old is

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Speaker 2: entitled to forty percent of that, which is just ten dollars. Now,

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Speaker 2: that increase is by ten percent every year until an

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Speaker 2: employee is twenty one. And so if we look at

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Speaker 2: an eighteen year old, which is where this push is

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Speaker 2: targeted at, they are entitled to seventy percent of the

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Speaker 2: minimum award, which in this example means they can get

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Speaker 2: seventeen dollars fifty, which is a difference of seven dollars

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Speaker 2: fifty for every hour, which is a big difference when

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Speaker 2: you add that.

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Speaker 3: Up, especially when, like when you started off telling me

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Speaker 3: about the fifteen year old entitlement, forty percent sounds like

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Speaker 3: a lot less than what an adult earns. But when

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Speaker 3: you think of fifteen year olds, you know that's a kid.

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Speaker 3: Everyone knows that kids get paid less than adults. I'm

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Speaker 3: just really surprised by this junior rate for eighteen year olds.

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Speaker 3: I think also the reason maybe I didn't know I

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Speaker 3: was getting paid junior rates when I was at agees

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Speaker 3: because I had a dodgy cash in the hand postpo job.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that is another issue which we should do another

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Speaker 2: episode on. But so that is what these unions are

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Speaker 2: wanting to change. They want all eighteen year olds to

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Speaker 2: be entitled to the same pay as their co workers.

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Speaker 2: And the body responsible for settling this is the Fair

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Speaker 2: Work Commission, which as I mentioned, is the national workplace regulator,

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Speaker 2: and they are the ones who the unions are appealing

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Speaker 2: to to change this.

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Speaker 3: So what have the unions said about why they believe

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Speaker 3: this is important?

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Speaker 1: Why now?

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Speaker 2: Well, the group leading this is the Australian Council of

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Speaker 2: Trade Unions or the ACTU, and they are the peak

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Speaker 2: body for unions in Australia. They're made up of nearly

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Speaker 2: forty smaller unions and like I said, they are asking

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Speaker 2: for these junior raids to be scrapped for anyone legally

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Speaker 2: considered an adult. The ACTU Secretary Sally McManus said, quote,

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Speaker 2: young people don't get discounts on their rent or grocery bills,

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Speaker 2: so why should they get youth wages? And the National

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Speaker 2: Secretary Jaredwier, from one of the unions representing retail and

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Speaker 2: fast food workers said, eighteen to twenty year olds are

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Speaker 2: adults in the eyes of the law. They can vote,

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Speaker 2: drink alcohol, and join the army. Why are they paid

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Speaker 2: as juniors?

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting.

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Speaker 3: How does Australia stack up we think about other countries.

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Speaker 3: Is this a pretty standard treatment for workers between eighteen

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Speaker 3: and twenty one?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that's a point worth exploring, because there

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Speaker 2: are some other countries who did have junior wages but

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Speaker 2: have now either limited them or in some cases just

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Speaker 2: abolished them entirely. So in New Zealand, for example, sixteen

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Speaker 2: to nineteen year olds earn eighty percent of the minimum

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Speaker 2: wage for the first six months of their job before

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Speaker 2: moving on to the full minimum wage. And that change

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Speaker 2: was actually made back in two thousand and two.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that twenty years ago.

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Speaker 3: So we're saying over twenty years ago in New Zealand

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Speaker 3: they made a change. That means if you're sixteen to nineteen,

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Speaker 3: you've proven yourself for six months in a job, then

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Speaker 3: there's that incentive to stick around, to have loyalty to

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Speaker 3: an employer, because then you've got a direct incentive to

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Speaker 3: get a pay increase.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and in Canada, that is another country that has

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Speaker 2: identified this as an area that they wanted to change,

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Speaker 2: and nearly all provinces there don't have any lower pay

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Speaker 2: rates for eighteen year olds. So all that's to say

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Speaker 2: that there is precedent for this in other countries.

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Speaker 3: So obviously when we're talking anything unions, workers' rights, fair

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Speaker 3: work award rates, we have to of course think about

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Speaker 3: how the businesses have responded to this. Have we heard

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Speaker 3: anything from industry groups on that side.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a constant battle between the unions and the

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Speaker 2: business councils and I guess unsurprisingly they have been quite

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Speaker 2: critical of it. I'll read out the response from the

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Speaker 2: Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, which is the country's

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Speaker 2: largest business group. They said that scrapping junior pay rates

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Speaker 2: is unrealistic and they claimed that it was quote another

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Speaker 2: example of the usual ignorance of economics from unions.

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Speaker 1: Pretty strong, very.

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Speaker 2: Very strong, and their policy chief David Alexander said scrapping

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Speaker 2: junior pay rates would make hiring young people far less

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Speaker 2: attractive to businesses. He continued, taking on a worker with

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Speaker 2: minimal experience requires extra risk and extra effort. They do

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Speaker 2: not have the work or life experience that older adults have,

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Speaker 2: and so just wrap that up. His argument basically is

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Speaker 2: that this would actually be catastrophic for young workers. Those

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Speaker 2: are his words, because employeers would be less inclined to

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Speaker 2: hire them. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think that those comments were really interesting because this

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Speaker 3: idea of the kind of extra effort or risk that

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Speaker 3: a business might take on to have a young employee.

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Speaker 3: I can kind of get my head around that. If

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Speaker 3: we're thinking about, you know, fifteen year old Billy rocking

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Speaker 3: up to Domino's her first job. She doesn't know how

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Speaker 3: to put tomato paste on a pizza base.

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Speaker 1: I was actually pretty targeted.

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Speaker 3: I get that, but like, how do you kind of

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Speaker 3: hold that level up against an eighteen or a nineteen

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Speaker 3: year old or what's the difference between a twenty year

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Speaker 3: old employee and a twenty one year old employee, you know,

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Speaker 3: apart from what they're getting paid. So pretty strong words

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Speaker 3: from the business sector. What about the government?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So to be clear, the Fair Work Commission is

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Speaker 2: a government agency and the Employment Minister, who is Tony

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Speaker 2: Burke at the moment, he can request reviews of award rates,

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Speaker 2: so he can put pressure on the Fairwork Commission to change.

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Speaker 3: This, but ultimately it's the Fair Work Commission that has

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Speaker 3: to make the decision exactly now.

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Speaker 2: TDA reached out to Tony Burke and he didn't indicate

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Speaker 2: if he would call for a review of junior rates,

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Speaker 2: so basically didn't say too much. But he did point

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Speaker 2: out recent government efforts to create secure jobs and better pays,

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Speaker 2: such as criminalizing wage left so he basically said, we're

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Speaker 2: not focusing on this right now, but look over here

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Speaker 2: at all of the other stuff that we.

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Speaker 1: Are doing now.

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Speaker 2: TDA also reached out to the opposition and the Shadow

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Speaker 2: Employment Minister Michaeleia Cash, who urged unions and the government

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Speaker 2: to focus on quote proposals which will increase productivity and

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Speaker 2: lead to higher sustainable wage growth. So basically not really

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Speaker 2: supporting this either.

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Speaker 3: Not really supporting this, but not really not supporting it.

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Speaker 3: It's very kind of no one seems to want to

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Speaker 3: really put their foot in it either way, exactly. So

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Speaker 3: we've heard from the unions, we've heard from the Business

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Speaker 3: Grow government kind of sitting on the fence a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Maybe what happens next.

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Speaker 2: Well, the unions have now lodged a formal application with

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Speaker 2: the Fairwork commission which the Fair Work will review and

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Speaker 2: they will call on key stakeholders so unions, workers, experts

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Speaker 2: and businesses to give evidence on this and then they

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Speaker 2: will come up with a decision. But we are not

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Speaker 2: expecting that decision until twenty twenty five, so remains to

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Speaker 2: be seen. What happens next.

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Speaker 3: Watch this space and if you age out into being

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Speaker 3: twenty one in that time. Congrats Billy, that was so interesting.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for explaining all things Junior pay

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Speaker 3: rates to us today. If you learned something from this episode,

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Speaker 3: please send it to a friend or someone you think

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Speaker 3: might enjoy it. And make sure you are following the

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Speaker 3: Daily Os wherever you listen to your podcast to ensure

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Speaker 3: that there is an episode waiting.

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Speaker 1: For you every weekday morning. We'll be back tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: Until then, have a great day.

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Speaker 2: My name is Lily Madden and I'm proud Arunda Banjelung

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Speaker 2: Kalkadin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that

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Speaker 2: this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl

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Speaker 2: people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest Rate

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Speaker 2: island and nations. We pay our respects to the first

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Speaker 2: peoples of these countries both past and present,