WEBVTT - The Clutter Family Murders

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen fifty eight, a writer by the name of

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<v Speaker 1>Truman Capote heard of him had the idea to write

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<v Speaker 1>what he called the first non fiction novel, in which

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<v Speaker 1>he wanted to take on a real life event and

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<v Speaker 1>turn it into a story. He just couldn't find the

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<v Speaker 1>right subjects. That was until one day when he opened

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<v Speaker 1>the newspaper in nineteen fifty nine and saw in the

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<v Speaker 1>New York Times that a farmer and his entire family

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<v Speaker 1>from Kansas had been murdered in their home with no suspects.

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<v Speaker 1>So Capodi and his good friend Harpily went out to

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<v Speaker 1>Kansas and began to investigate and deep dive into this

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<v Speaker 1>family's lives and their tragic deaths. He would be there

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<v Speaker 1>for the capture of their killers and many many years after,

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<v Speaker 1>and this story would go on to become the one

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<v Speaker 1>and only novel in Cold.

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<v Speaker 2>In Cold Blood, I love this book so much.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, today we're talking about this story behind the book,

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<v Speaker 1>the Clutter family murders.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh wow, Hey, can I start this today's episode with

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<v Speaker 3>the cheers?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm too far away back to do. Let's do this ready, two?

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<v Speaker 4>Three cheers.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to another crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Georgia Love I'm Shemmy Peterson.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a journalist.

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<v Speaker 2>I am not.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you just want to hear the story about

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<v Speaker 1>the Clutter family murders today, you can skip ahead through

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<v Speaker 1>our banter or past our banter. The time coat is

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<v Speaker 1>in the show notes. But thank you so much. I've

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<v Speaker 1>been doing it for you now. Yeah, and I have

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<v Speaker 1>missed some episodes, but you have not. You've been on

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<v Speaker 1>every episode, every episode. No, we did one in Adelaide.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's true.

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<v Speaker 1>I've spoken about himough because you're obsessed with her.

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<v Speaker 2>But he was on FaceTime the whole time.

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<v Speaker 1>That's true.

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<v Speaker 2>He's having a drink of water really loudly in the background.

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<v Speaker 1>Saving Peterson. Do you notice anything different about me today?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes?

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<v Speaker 3>I do.

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<v Speaker 2>You aren't wearing shoes. Who are you to mintionin? You're

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<v Speaker 2>wearing a beautiful miss Piggy T shirt today.

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<v Speaker 1>So, dear listeners, if you were listening, I should say

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<v Speaker 1>when you were listening to our one year anniversary episode

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<v Speaker 1>with special guests Oliver Clark and Myth Warhurst, you would

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<v Speaker 1>have heard me say I had ordered a special T

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<v Speaker 1>shirt to wear on that episode, because it cast your

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<v Speaker 1>mind's back to when we had Myth Warhurst on her

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<v Speaker 1>first Thursday episode, we was being about Miss Goddamn Piggy

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<v Speaker 1>and MIF said she was her icon growing up and

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<v Speaker 1>still is to this day now. The T shirt did

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<v Speaker 1>not arrive in time for me to wear on that episode,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm wearing it today because if you think I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not just gonna wear it in everyday life, you don't

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<v Speaker 1>know me at all. It is a picture of Miss

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<v Speaker 1>Piggy in an orange sequin dress with an orange for

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<v Speaker 1>the bow, with the words in the font of one

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<v Speaker 1>T swift new album, The Life of a show Girl.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so good.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm showing the camera for YouTube.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just and she actually.

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<v Speaker 1>Her name is Kitty. She made her money being pretty

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<v Speaker 1>and witty. That's right, such a oh, it's her name

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<v Speaker 1>is Piggy. She made her money pretty and weirdy.

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<v Speaker 3>That's from.

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<v Speaker 1>And I love this T shirt so much And I

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<v Speaker 1>just wore it to work today and people asked me

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<v Speaker 1>what it was for and I was like, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>understand the question that I'm wearing today.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I've got a beautiful Miss Piggy T shirt coming

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<v Speaker 2>as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't tell me way down, kay.

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<v Speaker 2>It's gonna be good to tell you that March is

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<v Speaker 2>going to be very good.

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<v Speaker 1>Do we just each order ourselves speak a T shirt

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<v Speaker 1>with discussing it.

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<v Speaker 2>I saw it a few weeks ago when I disordered it.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's coming from the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>Of a marriage you're going to start America.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's it's coming, but it's going to be a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit late. But as soon as as soon as

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<v Speaker 2>it arrives, I'll be wearing my Piggy T shirt as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Sammy, let's stop talking about this because something much more

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<v Speaker 1>important needs to be spoken about your comedy special. Why

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<v Speaker 1>the long phase?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, is out for everyone to what it's out. There's

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<v Speaker 2>a link there. So I had a real disappointing day

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<v Speaker 2>the first day that it came out. Sadly it was

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<v Speaker 2>posted without an ending. It cut.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's Famously Stories, So your comedy special is

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<v Speaker 1>a story. It's not just a series of jokes. Famously

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<v Speaker 1>stories don't need the last twenty minutes to make sense.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't know what you're upset for.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, so my story builds up to a point

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<v Speaker 2>and it cuts me off mid sentence like it was

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<v Speaker 2>an episode of the Sopranos. The final episode Sopranos and so.

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<v Speaker 1>And not even just like the last moment, like twenty minutes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like it cut twenty minutes out, and so the

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<v Speaker 2>comedy club who uploaded all, oh my god, I'm so sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was the last twenty minutes. So five over

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<v Speaker 2>five thousand people watch it without the ending, and so

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<v Speaker 2>they just think that I probably just had a special

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<v Speaker 2>that just ended.

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<v Speaker 1>Sammy, Can I say to you? And I was actually

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<v Speaker 1>talking to my friend about this today when I told

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<v Speaker 1>her what had happened, and she said the same thing

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<v Speaker 1>that I said to you. And I feel overwhelmingly you

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<v Speaker 1>had five thousand people watch your comedy special on the

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<v Speaker 1>very first night it was released. I know that was

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<v Speaker 1>a shitty night because it went wrong and that ending

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't there. Can we just for the rest of forever

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<v Speaker 1>make sure we focus on that amazing positive five thousand

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<v Speaker 1>people watched your comedy special the very night it was released.

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<v Speaker 1>That is fucking a massive.

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<v Speaker 2>It's amazing. But they did not happen of you. So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go to every this is my plane, Okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go to all of the people's houses.

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<v Speaker 2>Good idea that's watched that episode? Yes, well that it's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of an episode I watched, Yeah, first part of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Watch the first part of special. Yes, and I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to perform from the moment it comes off to the end.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, that's a great idea.

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<v Speaker 2>So five thousand. So how many is that?

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<v Speaker 1>If I it's no.

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<v Speaker 2>No, But if I do for the next year, yep,

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<v Speaker 2>how many? G love, I know you're very good at math,

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<v Speaker 2>Yes I am. How many would I have to do

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<v Speaker 2>a day?

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<v Speaker 1>I think three three a day yep to make five

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<v Speaker 1>thousand out of three hundred and sixty five.

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<v Speaker 2>And you're confident about that because it's not a leap yeer.

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<v Speaker 1>So there are three hundred and sixty five days, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>The three hundred and fIF sixty five days times three

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<v Speaker 2>is thousand. Okay, great, I'm not going to check.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's not that much because twenty minutes times three

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<v Speaker 1>is obviously an hour I'm not stupid. One hour a

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<v Speaker 1>day for four years, yeah, So not the calendar year

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<v Speaker 1>for the next three hundred and sixty five days.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, And it just depends where you're living as well.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'll have to account travel and everything into that,

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<v Speaker 2>but I will do it. And so if this is

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<v Speaker 2>my this is my message to you if you watch that, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>and you didn't see the last twenty minutes, email me

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<v Speaker 2>your address, no, just email me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, oh okay, and then you'll find the address.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll find you.

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<v Speaker 1>Because you're not a journal, must be your hack.

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<v Speaker 2>And I will find you. I know your IP address.

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<v Speaker 2>I will find you. It was the last thing I do,

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<v Speaker 2>and I will do twenty minutes of comedy at you

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<v Speaker 2>from the moment it stopped, and I'll get really.

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<v Speaker 1>And you'll you'll know exactly stuff. You'll pick up your centered.

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<v Speaker 2>And that that's so well honed as well to it.

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<v Speaker 1>And the thing is because that was just this week

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<v Speaker 1>that that happened. So for the people who get their

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<v Speaker 1>last three performances on the three hundred and sixty fifth day, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>that'll remember where it left.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely that yeah, you remember that stuff. So yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So my comedy special is out now. I have put

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<v Speaker 2>it on my social media, so if you want to

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<v Speaker 2>find it special media. Yep, what is It's at Sammy

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<v Speaker 2>Peterson not offficial.

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<v Speaker 1>Have I told you that? When you first changed your

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<v Speaker 1>handle to that, I thought it was Sammy Peterson Official

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<v Speaker 1>and I was like, oh my god, good for your

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<v Speaker 1>big dog you've got some confidence about you. Oh unofficial?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah no, no, no, you've.

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<v Speaker 1>Changed, man, but I kind of like it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, no, I've got a I just thought Sam

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<v Speaker 2>Peter's not official was fun, but then most people who

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<v Speaker 2>write it right official.

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<v Speaker 1>So because everyone knows you have got damn boss lady.

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<v Speaker 2>Yea, I'm a boss lady. I'm absolute boss lady.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey talking about boss ladies? Well, hang on, first of all,

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<v Speaker 1>have to say that huge congratulations. I'm really prayank you

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<v Speaker 1>so much. I'm talking about boss ladies. Do you know

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<v Speaker 1>how good friend sticker is by Claws? Yes, I love

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<v Speaker 1>one of our beautiful listeners who had sent us in

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<v Speaker 1>stickers before. Well, there is a little envelopeia that says

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<v Speaker 1>to Sammy and g love, maybe.

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<v Speaker 2>Cover up the address on YouTube. Oh yeah, yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>it's by Claude.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you want me to do that again?

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<v Speaker 2>That's fine?

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<v Speaker 1>Blur And it actually says on the back form of

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<v Speaker 1>stickers by court should I read out her? Okay, So

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to do a live unboxing, which will be

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<v Speaker 1>funny if it's just like a I know, like a

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<v Speaker 1>love letter. Actually that would be great. I can see cats,

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<v Speaker 1>I can see carts. Never jokes. Okay, Oh my god,

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, wait god, all right, there's a little

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<v Speaker 1>handwritten note in it as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I love you. If you guys had.

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<v Speaker 1>Skipped the band, you wouldn't. All right, I'm gonna oh

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<v Speaker 1>my god, I'm going to read the note first. Dear

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<v Speaker 1>Sammy and Georgia, you guys are the beds. Still loving

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<v Speaker 1>your podcast obviously, and I also agree with your many

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<v Speaker 1>other listeners that the long episodes are great and definitely

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<v Speaker 1>worth it. I've recently released a couple of news sticker

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<v Speaker 1>sheet designs and I thought you both would like to

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<v Speaker 1>share them. Thanks again for always providing the best stories

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<v Speaker 1>of forever love your pod and happy one year.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, I love you.

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<v Speaker 1>P has never stopped the musical references. Gee, I love them,

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<v Speaker 1>and I never say no to a chance to sing

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<v Speaker 1>along with you. Lots of love, Claudia. Okay, which one

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<v Speaker 1>shall I go with today? Give me a musical? Please?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, I'll give it. I saw Cats.

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<v Speaker 2>Need any questions yep?

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry, Well, there's a sticker shade of cats in front

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<v Speaker 1>of me, and I saw the musical Cats the other night,

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm going to sing this.

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<v Speaker 2>When you're a jet You're Jay come wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna sing this well, never remember there's a cat,

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<v Speaker 1>a cat as clever as magical muster mistore p please

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<v Speaker 1>And also this one. No, I don't remember rum Tum

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<v Speaker 1>Tuger's song. I just remember that the guy who played

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<v Speaker 1>it was hot.

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<v Speaker 2>Well you're done a good job, thank.

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<v Speaker 3>You very much.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know this one as well, Jelly cousin and

0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:49.640
<v Speaker 1>Jelicus do and jelicusmine and Jelicus who. So I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know the words to that either, but when when Poudrey

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<v Speaker 1>is being a pest I sing to her that she's

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<v Speaker 1>being a pesticle cat.

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<v Speaker 2>That's good.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. Can we have beautiful stickers? And there's

0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:06.439
<v Speaker 1>dog ones as well. Okay, so I'm going to show

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<v Speaker 1>the YouTube. This is the sticker sheet of cats. This

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<v Speaker 1>one as long as a bumblebee, like there's one catistic

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<v Speaker 1>bumble bee. That one looks like poetry. And this one

0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:17.360
<v Speaker 1>is hilarious because it doesn't have a neck and it's just.

0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.959
<v Speaker 2>Like, oh, saw, do you make the best stickers?

0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.960
<v Speaker 1>And this is the dog ones And there's not really

0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.880
<v Speaker 1>a dibber on there, but there's a dalmation and can

0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.200
<v Speaker 1>you please tell everyone the story about.

0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:31.959
<v Speaker 2>So there's a there's a dalmation on my street the

0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.360
<v Speaker 2>other day that didn't have a collar on. We named

0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:38.880
<v Speaker 2>him Spot and I was like that of Crouella. And

0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.160
<v Speaker 2>we're walking walking home and the dog was playing with digs.

0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Little puppy Dalmatian walked all the way home with us

0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.280
<v Speaker 2>and then came in the gate and was playing with

0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.800
<v Speaker 2>digs in here, and then the owner called out to it.

0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:50.880
<v Speaker 3>Damn it.

0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.920
<v Speaker 1>You thought I thought you were getting getting.

0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.800
<v Speaker 2>It brother that he's always wanted.

0:11:57.960 --> 0:11:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, now you can have a picture of the baby

0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:04.199
<v Speaker 1>brother Spot. There's also a picture of a Cortigra a

0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:08.480
<v Speaker 1>Corgy on there and they are famously that's the dog

0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:09.920
<v Speaker 1>I want to get if I ever get a dog,

0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.040
<v Speaker 1>and I want to name her Chappelle Corgy.

0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:14.160
<v Speaker 2>That's good. I love that. I love that.

0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:18.800
<v Speaker 1>I really need to do it yet because I'm not

0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:20.880
<v Speaker 1>wearing shoes. You think my foot is very.

0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.440
<v Speaker 2>But we are going to be doing an episode today

0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:29.880
<v Speaker 2>that we did on a book called He Read, She.

0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Read a podcast called God but.

0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.080
<v Speaker 2>We wed, I'll go but went into a book, dove

0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.319
<v Speaker 2>into a book called in Cold Blood. It was really

0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.520
<v Speaker 2>good and we might be book talk stars is that

0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.200
<v Speaker 2>a thing. There's an ex bachelor that is a book

0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:45.680
<v Speaker 2>talk star.

0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:47.719
<v Speaker 1>Yes, he's currently on the Australian season of.

0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay. He became a book talk star, and maybe that's

0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.120
<v Speaker 2>what we need to do because now he's got a podcast.

0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:57.319
<v Speaker 1>We already have a book, I know.

0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.760
<v Speaker 2>But if we go big on book talk, we can

0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:02.160
<v Speaker 2>get another book, another podcast.

0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't have time for another podcast.

0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:04.600
<v Speaker 2>No, you're right, we don't have time.

0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:06.720
<v Speaker 1>But we could get sent free books.

0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:07.959
<v Speaker 2>Yes, how good would that be?

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, maybe I should leave the address up on the

0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:13.600
<v Speaker 1>YouTube and people can send us books.

0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, address up.

0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:17.319
<v Speaker 1>Books.

0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:21.920
<v Speaker 2>But we did go on that podcast and it was fantastic.

0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:22.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.480
<v Speaker 1>So it's with two Australian authors named Jp Pomery and

0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Sarah Bailey. They both written thriller books and lots of them,

0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.520
<v Speaker 1>and numerous that I have read before before we were

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.599
<v Speaker 1>asked to go the last few years. They're both fantastic.

0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.240
<v Speaker 1>JP wasn't there, so she invited us on his guests

0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:40.760
<v Speaker 1>because we're famous book talk stars.

0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's right, we are famous book talk stars.

0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.960
<v Speaker 1>And we spoke about the book in cold Blood. Now,

0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.360
<v Speaker 1>I've said on the podcast many times before. I think

0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:51.840
<v Speaker 1>even just in the very last episode with John Ronson

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 1>on Thursday that this was this was always my favorite

0:13:56.040 --> 0:14:00.360
<v Speaker 1>book until I read Boy Swallows Universe by it is

0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.199
<v Speaker 1>a very close second. Now. I love obviously the true

0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.440
<v Speaker 1>crime element of it, but the fact that it is,

0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.480
<v Speaker 1>like I said in the intro, is kind of talented

0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.679
<v Speaker 1>as the first non fiction novel. So it is a

0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.960
<v Speaker 1>nonfiction story. It's about a true crime, but Truman Compote

0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.720
<v Speaker 1>has written it into a novel, so it reads like

0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:19.520
<v Speaker 1>a fiction.

0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Book, but it's not.

0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.440
<v Speaker 1>And we will talk a bit about that part of

0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:26.600
<v Speaker 1>it and the Truman Compote part in this episode, but

0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.200
<v Speaker 1>it's a true crime podcast, so we're mostly talking about

0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.720
<v Speaker 1>the crime itself. If you want to hear Sammy and

0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 1>I go on a deep dive into our thoughts about

0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 1>the book and more about Truman Compodi himself and what

0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.440
<v Speaker 1>we think about how he wrote that, please listen to

0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:40.000
<v Speaker 1>our episode.

0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.000
<v Speaker 2>If he read she read it simply mast.

0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.400
<v Speaker 1>And do you know much about the crime. I mean,

0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:49.880
<v Speaker 1>obviously you've read the book as well, but a lot

0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 1>of people talk about the book and not actually the

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.840
<v Speaker 1>clut of Family murder, where it became one of the

0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.640
<v Speaker 1>most famous murders of all time because of the book.

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.680
<v Speaker 1>So do you know a lot of details about it?

0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Not really other than what's in the book. I mean,

0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:06.600
<v Speaker 2>but I kind of got I guess I got a

0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.000
<v Speaker 2>little bit sidetracked by Tim and Capodi.

0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.840
<v Speaker 1>And it's a lot about ye, the town and characters

0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:14.560
<v Speaker 1>and stuff as well, not just the crime.

0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and then the killers as well.

0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, is there anything else you'd like to talk about

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.880
<v Speaker 1>before we delve into the Clutter family mood?

0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, you're away this weekend, so I'm going to watch

0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Heated Rivalry?

0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:29.200
<v Speaker 1>Are you really I'm going.

0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:30.360
<v Speaker 2>To watch it?

0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.400
<v Speaker 1>It's really funny that you said because I'm away, Like,

0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.280
<v Speaker 1>because you know, if I was here and I.

0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:41.480
<v Speaker 5>Knew you were watching shouting at the I'm a part

0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.360
<v Speaker 5>of I imagine you're like, it's like people watching sports

0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:45.320
<v Speaker 5>with people, like you're.

0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.160
<v Speaker 2>Going to be shouting at the TV. Yes, And you're

0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.480
<v Speaker 2>going to a music fest all I always wanted to

0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.440
<v Speaker 2>go to called festival.

0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.840
<v Speaker 1>So it's actually food and wine festival that has musical

0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:01.800
<v Speaker 1>acts there as well. Jess melboy in the Spoon British

0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:07.200
<v Speaker 1>radio Greenspoon. I'm going to Grimspoon tomorrow. Yeah, and three

0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.760
<v Speaker 1>small time comedians you might have heard Of will also

0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:13.800
<v Speaker 1>be performing there tomorrow named Luke McGregor, Nick Cody, and

0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:15.080
<v Speaker 1>Claire Hooper.

0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 2>That's a great line up. It's going to be fun.

0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:18.240
<v Speaker 1>It's a really fun week.

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.000
<v Speaker 2>When you're there, I'm going to be watching Heated Rivalry.

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.760
<v Speaker 1>You know what I mean this with all sincerity. I'm

0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:24.480
<v Speaker 1>jealous of that.

0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:26.680
<v Speaker 2>We'm jealous. If you're going to fest of All.

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Hey, come to FESTIVALI you.

0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.040
<v Speaker 2>Should have asked a few weeks ago.

0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:33.800
<v Speaker 1>To be able to watch Heated Rivalry for the first

0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:35.960
<v Speaker 1>time again. Yeah, something I'll never be able to do

0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:39.520
<v Speaker 1>in off It is just it is the best show

0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.280
<v Speaker 1>ever written. I cannot stop thinking about it. Deeply in

0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:44.480
<v Speaker 1>love with Hudson Williams.

0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.240
<v Speaker 2>Which one is that one? We'll find out. Don't worry

0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:47.320
<v Speaker 2>about it. We'll find out how you want.

0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.160
<v Speaker 1>Because it's the name of the actor. But we can

0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.120
<v Speaker 1>talk about it after. There's gonna be so much to

0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:52.680
<v Speaker 1>talk about on week's episode.

0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Let's do this week's episode, then.

0:16:55.640 --> 0:17:06.040
<v Speaker 1>Kay Leo's do. The Clutter family lived in Holcombe, Kansas.

0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 2>I know this.

0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.040
<v Speaker 1>You can't say that after every sing.

0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:11.600
<v Speaker 6>Okay.

0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.040
<v Speaker 1>The father, Herbert Clutter, was born in nineteen eleven and

0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:20.880
<v Speaker 1>his whole life was farming. He was an agricultural agent

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.119
<v Speaker 1>for the county, and he went around teaching farmers as

0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:28.800
<v Speaker 1>well as owning his own farm himself and sorry and

0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:30.280
<v Speaker 1>his father had done that as well, So he was

0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.840
<v Speaker 1>a farmer from way back. He started his own Herbs

0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.480
<v Speaker 1>started his own farm in the nineteen forties named River

0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Valley Farm, also in Holcombe, Kansas. He was absolutely beloved

0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.919
<v Speaker 1>in the community, labeled and I feel like you'll be

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.560
<v Speaker 1>able to guess the labels. You wouldn't say, like beloved

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:49.520
<v Speaker 1>farmer guy? What did people say?

0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 2>He was wholesome? Yeah, and lovely and beautiful.

0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Sault of the Earth, asault of the Earth's successful and

0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.280
<v Speaker 1>stood up for the little guy like he wasn't just

0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:05.920
<v Speaker 1>for himself and his family. His farmer, big farmer. That's clever,

0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:06.480
<v Speaker 1>I right.

0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:07.320
<v Speaker 2>That big farmer.

0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I like that's very clever. But big farmer famously

0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:11.880
<v Speaker 1>doesn't stick up to the little guy.

0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.720
<v Speaker 2>I disagree. If you'd like to sponsor us big farmer,

0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:23.480
<v Speaker 2>very aroviser, yeah, I don't think we should ask whatever.

0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:30.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, small thing. So Herb's farm was thriving, but

0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.240
<v Speaker 1>he also then fiercely advocated for smaller farms as well.

0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.400
<v Speaker 1>He was the president of the National Association of Wheat Growers.

0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.359
<v Speaker 2>He's a big farmer, He's a big, big farm.

0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.720
<v Speaker 1>His whole family was very much the picture of the

0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:49.880
<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifties perfect American family. Yeah, I was about to say,

0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.359
<v Speaker 1>you got it, but I did tell you he's gonna

0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.120
<v Speaker 1>be a long episode freaking like this. Here's a real

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:56.960
<v Speaker 1>vibe in here today. I like it. It's fun. I'm

0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:58.600
<v Speaker 1>having fun it because I've got my shoes off and

0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:03.320
<v Speaker 1>a pig. Tim mentioned, are we singing? Tim mentioned some

0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.320
<v Speaker 1>quickly at the end. Ah, okay, I'll rush.

0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Through a treat to the end, get through carrot, danglars carrot.

0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:18.280
<v Speaker 1>So President Eisenhower actually appointed herb Clutter to the Federal

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.680
<v Speaker 1>Farm Credit Board in nineteen fifty three.

0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.119
<v Speaker 2>When you thought a farmer couldn't get bigger, a bigger

0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:24.040
<v Speaker 2>farmer farmer.

0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:30.240
<v Speaker 1>He was active in politics, both local and national. In contrast, however,

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.240
<v Speaker 1>his wife Bonnie was very introverted. Yes she was salt

0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:36.359
<v Speaker 1>of the earth and lovely as well, but she wasn't

0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.359
<v Speaker 1>this inner out about in politics. The president knows him.

0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:41.320
<v Speaker 2>The life of the show girl.

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:45.000
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, no more. A kermit than a miss Piggy.

0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:49.800
<v Speaker 1>I'd say she had severe depression and anxiety. Oh that's sorry, Kermit.

0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:51.560
<v Speaker 1>Maybe more an Eel.

0:19:51.480 --> 0:20:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, memor El, the other famous Muppet. Yes, famous Moppet.

0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:09.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, all right, we'll take a quick break.

0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:15.800
<v Speaker 1>I just really wasn't expected to say that was quite funny.

0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:18.280
<v Speaker 1>I just did a spit take.

0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:22.480
<v Speaker 2>But it's not your Yeah, it's disgusting. That's the probably

0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:25.560
<v Speaker 2>the worst thing has ever happened in the book.

0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:32.960
<v Speaker 1>She wears a pink T shirt or I think I

0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:38.520
<v Speaker 1>can do this. Please don't make a clip of that.

0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:40.639
<v Speaker 2>No, I won't make a clip of that because my

0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:46.639
<v Speaker 2>face gone, Oh.

0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:49.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, that's disgusting. Oh my god. Okay, I can't.

0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:56.520
<v Speaker 1>We're talking about put Bonnie clot depression and can't. All right, So,

0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Bondie Clutter had actually been hospitalized several times for months

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:04.479
<v Speaker 1>a time with depression and anxiety. She also had nervous

0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:08.359
<v Speaker 1>muscle spasms. She slept a lot, but she was really

0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:10.719
<v Speaker 1>determined to get better and to be well and present

0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:16.280
<v Speaker 1>for her family. When she was feeling good and more

0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:18.719
<v Speaker 1>active in the community. She was an active member of

0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.720
<v Speaker 1>the Methodist Church. She taught Sunday school and she was

0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.960
<v Speaker 1>part of the Women's Society of Christian Service. She was

0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:30.840
<v Speaker 1>a good, wholesome, salt of the earth American mother. She

0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.080
<v Speaker 1>and Herb were very much in love, and Herb really

0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.840
<v Speaker 1>tried very hard to help and stand by her. So

0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:38.880
<v Speaker 1>there was not I think I feel like often here,

0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:44.280
<v Speaker 1>especially in the olden days, when someone has had postnatal

0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:49.639
<v Speaker 1>depression or depressive episodes, it kind of is spoken about,

0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:52.160
<v Speaker 1>as you know, and then the husband's like, oh, she's

0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.280
<v Speaker 1>just sleeping all day. This was very much not the

0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.040
<v Speaker 1>case with this family. He understood that she was unwell

0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:00.639
<v Speaker 1>and would really stand by her, was trying to do

0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:02.840
<v Speaker 1>everything to help her.

0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Heartbreaking.

0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:11.040
<v Speaker 1>Herb and Bonnie had four children. They had two older daughters,

0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.199
<v Speaker 1>Evianna and Beverly, who were adults at the time and

0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.080
<v Speaker 1>living out of the home. Yes, and at the time

0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:20.520
<v Speaker 1>of the incident we are discussing, they had a sixteen

0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 1>year old daughter, Nancy, and fifteen year old son Kenyan,

0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:25.280
<v Speaker 1>who were living at home with them.

0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:26.240
<v Speaker 2>It's such interesting name.

0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:30.360
<v Speaker 1>You never heard Kenyan again, like before or since. If

0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.359
<v Speaker 1>we have any listeners called Kenyon, please write in. I

0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:36.280
<v Speaker 1>didn't think we'd have a listener called Board. I love born,

0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:43.040
<v Speaker 1>so they now I won't really bring I'll mention Evianna

0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:45.320
<v Speaker 1>and Beverly again at the end, but they don't come

0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.400
<v Speaker 1>up through the story. They weren't living at home at

0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:48.560
<v Speaker 1>the time, so.

0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:50.239
<v Speaker 2>They weren't really involved in the book, were they.

0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.120
<v Speaker 1>No, And that's okay, Well, yeah, yeah, That's what I'll

0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:55.160
<v Speaker 1>talk about at the end, the fact that they weren't involved.

0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:58.879
<v Speaker 1>So when I'm talking about the family and their clutter

0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:02.240
<v Speaker 1>family and the whole family, I am just talking about Nancy, Kenyon,

0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Bonnie and Herb. I'm not discounting Evianna and Beverly. They

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:12.680
<v Speaker 1>weren't involved in the place, and they were. Nancy and

0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:17.040
<v Speaker 1>Kenyon were the classic all American teens of the nineteen fifties.

0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:22.240
<v Speaker 1>Like Picture Greece the Musical, they were younger kids. Sorry,

0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:24.679
<v Speaker 1>the younger kids. Were also very heavily involved in the

0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:30.320
<v Speaker 1>Methodist Church and youth services. Nancy was popular, pretty, a straight,

0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:34.879
<v Speaker 1>a student, very classic. She had a boyfriend named Bobby

0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:39.320
<v Speaker 1>Rupp American name, isn't it Bobby? It's like, I feel

0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:43.440
<v Speaker 1>like that's a character from Greece. She was a member

0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:47.040
<v Speaker 1>of the Mixed Chorus. She received the Good Citizen Award

0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:51.399
<v Speaker 1>at school just days before her death. Spoiler alert, I'm

0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:55.000
<v Speaker 1>sorry she does. Kenyan, the fifteen year old son, was

0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:58.639
<v Speaker 1>also really popular, but much more quiet and reserve. Again.

0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:01.800
<v Speaker 1>He was the kermit who Nancy's miss Piggy beautiful pool,

0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:06.160
<v Speaker 1>thank you. He had good grains. He was a star athlete,

0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:10.600
<v Speaker 1>especially in basketball and track teams. They were a really,

0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:16.159
<v Speaker 1>really close family who did a lot for the community.

0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:18.679
<v Speaker 1>Now I'm going to tell you about two other people.

0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:26.479
<v Speaker 1>A man named Richard known as Dick Hickock, was in

0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:31.240
<v Speaker 1>Kansas State Penitentiary for robbery. His cell mate was a

0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:35.680
<v Speaker 1>man named Floyd Wells, and as they got chatting in

0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:38.280
<v Speaker 1>their cell, passing the time on each of their sentences,

0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:42.760
<v Speaker 1>Floyd Wells told Dick Hickock that when he got out,

0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:45.359
<v Speaker 1>he was going to rob an old farmhouse that he

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.760
<v Speaker 1>used to work at. The farmhouse was called River Valley

0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Farm in Holcombe, Kansas. Floyd had worked there in the

0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:57.840
<v Speaker 1>late forties and had worked for Herb Clutter, and he

0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:01.080
<v Speaker 1>told his cell mate Dick Hickock that he knew that

0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Herb Clutter kept ten thousand dollars cash in a safe

0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:07.920
<v Speaker 1>in the house. Now, I didn't actually do I want

0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:09.879
<v Speaker 1>to quickly look that up. What that would be worth

0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:13.200
<v Speaker 1>in today's Yeah, because it would be I mean quite

0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:14.840
<v Speaker 1>significant obviously aslutely.

0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just interesting that he knew that from working

0:25:19.040 --> 0:25:21.479
<v Speaker 2>on the farm. It just seems like an interesting bit

0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:22.640
<v Speaker 2>of information, doesn't it.

0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:26.680
<v Speaker 1>I will will very much get into that. Yeah, Okay,

0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:31.520
<v Speaker 1>not ten thousand dollars in nineteen forty. This would be

0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:37.040
<v Speaker 1>worth between three hundred and four hundred and fifty thousand

0:25:37.080 --> 0:25:39.240
<v Speaker 1>dollars today. Okay, So that's.

0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:41.840
<v Speaker 2>All so much money just keeping you safe.

0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So as Floyd was talking about this, Dick thought, well,

0:25:46.760 --> 0:25:49.480
<v Speaker 1>I have less time on my sentence than Floyd does.

0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to get it. I'm going to do that

0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:55.159
<v Speaker 1>plan actually and break out and get not breakout, he

0:25:55.240 --> 0:25:57.040
<v Speaker 1>was going to be released, but he's going to break

0:25:57.040 --> 0:25:59.160
<v Speaker 1>into the house and get the money. Now, let's talk

0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:04.479
<v Speaker 1>about Dick Hickock. Growing up. He was athletic, smart and

0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:08.120
<v Speaker 1>cool and a good looking guy. He didn't get a

0:26:08.359 --> 0:26:11.719
<v Speaker 1>scholarship to college that he thought he would, and his

0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:13.760
<v Speaker 1>family couldn't afford to send him to college, so he

0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:16.360
<v Speaker 1>went straight into the workforce, doing odd jobs to make

0:26:16.400 --> 0:26:19.280
<v Speaker 1>a dime. Now, he was close with his family. His

0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:22.000
<v Speaker 1>family was you know, by all means, a kind of

0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:25.320
<v Speaker 1>lower middle class family, or even middle class family. They

0:26:25.320 --> 0:26:27.719
<v Speaker 1>didn't have enough money to pay for his college, but

0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:32.520
<v Speaker 1>they were you know, a close family, tight knit. By

0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:36.919
<v Speaker 1>age twenty eight, Dick Hickock had been married and divorced twice.

0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, okay by twenty eight.

0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:44.200
<v Speaker 1>By twenty eight, yes, he would do anything to avoid

0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:49.520
<v Speaker 1>working too hard. That probably counts for the marriages, sure,

0:26:50.240 --> 0:26:54.200
<v Speaker 1>as well as in actual work. He was really spoken

0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:57.560
<v Speaker 1>about as just a really lazy guy, right. He didn't

0:26:57.560 --> 0:26:59.560
<v Speaker 1>want to have to do hard work. You know, even

0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:01.720
<v Speaker 1>he didn't get scholarship, so we went, okay, I just

0:27:01.720 --> 0:27:03.199
<v Speaker 1>won't go to college at or he didn't then you know,

0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:04.800
<v Speaker 1>try to get a job to be able to put

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:07.920
<v Speaker 1>himself through college later. And he didn't like working because

0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:10.280
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't doing jobs that he wanted to do. So

0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:13.760
<v Speaker 1>he would get around doing a lot of robberies, stealing cars,

0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:17.000
<v Speaker 1>stealing number plates, and he ended up in and out

0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:20.840
<v Speaker 1>of jail quite a few times. He'd also been in

0:27:20.880 --> 0:27:24.160
<v Speaker 1>a car accident when he was younger. I didn't find

0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:28.199
<v Speaker 1>that age. He was in the car accident and it

0:27:28.280 --> 0:27:31.800
<v Speaker 1>left him with scars on his face, which he hated.

0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:35.879
<v Speaker 1>He really cherished his good looks growing up, and he

0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 1>was not even self conscious. He was angry. He was

0:27:39.119 --> 0:27:41.120
<v Speaker 1>not a good guy, where we don't have to feel

0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:45.000
<v Speaker 1>sorry for that. He would say that his face had

0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:47.040
<v Speaker 1>been ruined, and he was really angry about that. He

0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:52.040
<v Speaker 1>carried a real grudge about it. A new cell mate

0:27:52.080 --> 0:27:55.520
<v Speaker 1>moved in next door to like you know in the

0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:58.280
<v Speaker 1>cale next to Perry and sorry to Floyd and Dick,

0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:04.520
<v Speaker 1>And this man's name was Perry Smith. Now conversely to Dick,

0:28:05.000 --> 0:28:07.359
<v Speaker 1>he grew up in a very poor and a very

0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:12.280
<v Speaker 1>violent family. His parents were both severe alcoholics, and his

0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:18.240
<v Speaker 1>parents and siblings had mental health issues. He didn't finish school,

0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:21.440
<v Speaker 1>and he didn't have many skills to maintain a job,

0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:24.240
<v Speaker 1>certainly not a good job. It was a very different

0:28:24.320 --> 0:28:27.960
<v Speaker 1>upbringing to Dick's. He'd never had a long term girlfriend,

0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:31.800
<v Speaker 1>he didn't have the love and support of his family

0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:35.439
<v Speaker 1>as Dick had. He joined the army in nineteen forty

0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:39.320
<v Speaker 1>eight and was honorably discharged in nineteen fifty two, but

0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:42.760
<v Speaker 1>had no job skills so really struggled. After leaving the army,

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:46.800
<v Speaker 1>he became a drifter and again, like Dick, was arrested

0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:51.480
<v Speaker 1>a lot for petty crimes. Now, the difference between Dick

0:28:51.520 --> 0:28:55.080
<v Speaker 1>and Perry in committing crimes is it spoken about more

0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:57.800
<v Speaker 1>as if Dick did the crimes because he was well

0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:01.360
<v Speaker 1>a Dick and Perry because he was more desperate. He

0:29:01.400 --> 0:29:04.600
<v Speaker 1>didn't have money, he couldn't get a job, and that's

0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:06.400
<v Speaker 1>why he'll do the crimes. I mean, that's not an excuse,

0:29:06.440 --> 0:29:07.520
<v Speaker 1>but that was his excuse.

0:29:07.600 --> 0:29:07.800
<v Speaker 3>Sure.

0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:13.760
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen fifty six, Perry and Dick were at Lansing,

0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:16.520
<v Speaker 1>sorry I said, I said, Kansas State Penitentiary. They know

0:29:16.520 --> 0:29:17.280
<v Speaker 1>they were at Lancing.

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Lancing.

0:29:18.840 --> 0:29:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Floyd Wells says that Dick became obsessed with the thought

0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:25.600
<v Speaker 1>of this ten thousand dollars in the farmer's house in Hongkong.

0:29:25.800 --> 0:29:26.360
<v Speaker 2>Much money.

0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:32.560
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, Dick would say that he was going to

0:29:32.600 --> 0:29:36.800
<v Speaker 1>take this new friend, Perry Smith because he was dumb

0:29:36.880 --> 0:29:39.760
<v Speaker 1>and impressionable, and he was going to steal the money

0:29:39.800 --> 0:29:41.640
<v Speaker 1>from the safe when they got out of prison.

0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:44.200
<v Speaker 2>God.

0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Now, Dick saw something in Perry that he had something

0:29:49.480 --> 0:29:52.080
<v Speaker 1>that he wanted. So Perry had something that Dick wanted,

0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:55.520
<v Speaker 1>and that was the skills of a natural born killer.

0:29:56.560 --> 0:29:59.960
<v Speaker 1>According to Dick, Wow Perry also then saw something in

0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Dick that he didn't have. That was confidence, the ability

0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:07.200
<v Speaker 1>to make a move without second guessing yourself. Sure, okay,

0:30:07.600 --> 0:30:09.600
<v Speaker 1>so they see each other as the person he's going

0:30:09.640 --> 0:30:12.960
<v Speaker 1>to make this robbery actually happen. Neither of them would

0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:15.040
<v Speaker 1>do it on their own, they can do it together,

0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:19.680
<v Speaker 1>and Perry was always seeking Dick's validation. Again, they grew

0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:24.760
<v Speaker 1>up very differently. Perry grew up quite unloved by all accounts,

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:27.360
<v Speaker 1>and Dick really took him under his wing, and Perry

0:30:27.440 --> 0:30:31.360
<v Speaker 1>kind of really took to that and wanted to impress

0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:35.040
<v Speaker 1>him and be friends with him. Perry got parole on

0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:39.840
<v Speaker 1>July sixth, nineteen fifty nine. He had to leave Kansas.

0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:42.080
<v Speaker 1>Under his parle conditions, he wasn't ever allowed back in

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:44.560
<v Speaker 1>the state, or at least for the parole term, he

0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:45.680
<v Speaker 1>wasn't allowed back in the state.

0:30:45.840 --> 0:30:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Interesting not to be allowed back in the state. Usually

0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:50.720
<v Speaker 2>think that you actually have to stay some ways, people

0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:52.360
<v Speaker 2>can keep an eye on you. But not allowed in

0:30:52.400 --> 0:30:53.360
<v Speaker 2>the state seems.

0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:55.200
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like, I don't know if this is

0:30:55.240 --> 0:30:57.600
<v Speaker 1>the case, but it feels like they've gone, Well, if

0:30:57.600 --> 0:30:59.320
<v Speaker 1>you're going to do more petty crimes, not on our

0:30:59.360 --> 0:31:06.040
<v Speaker 1>turn someone else, but he did stay close by to Kansas,

0:31:06.080 --> 0:31:08.960
<v Speaker 1>so as close as he could possibly be, because he

0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:11.000
<v Speaker 1>was waiting for Dick to get out and he wanted

0:31:11.040 --> 0:31:13.760
<v Speaker 1>to be as close as he could be. Dick was

0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:15.520
<v Speaker 1>meant to get out many months later, but he actually

0:31:15.560 --> 0:31:18.280
<v Speaker 1>got an early release and was released in August, so

0:31:18.480 --> 0:31:21.160
<v Speaker 1>just about five or six weeks after Perry was released.

0:31:21.960 --> 0:31:24.000
<v Speaker 1>Dick moved back in with his parents for a few

0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:26.280
<v Speaker 1>months so he could save up some money, and the

0:31:26.280 --> 0:31:29.240
<v Speaker 1>two men wrote letters back and forth talking about their

0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:34.160
<v Speaker 1>plans to rob the clutter farm. Perry was hesitant. He

0:31:34.240 --> 0:31:37.120
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to mess up his parole by returning to Kansas.

0:31:37.800 --> 0:31:40.040
<v Speaker 1>Apparently it wasn't the robbery that worried him, it was

0:31:40.120 --> 0:31:44.320
<v Speaker 1>just breaking parole. I think he was so they'd convince

0:31:44.360 --> 0:31:47.000
<v Speaker 1>themselves they're never going to get caught. So it's like, oh,

0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:49.760
<v Speaker 1>what if we get pulled over? H Yeah, what if

0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:52.280
<v Speaker 1>we get pulled over while I'm in Kansas and they

0:31:52.360 --> 0:31:54.680
<v Speaker 1>find out that I'm here, like the robbery part, we

0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:59.840
<v Speaker 1>won't get caught for that. Very smart people. After many

0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:04.280
<v Speaker 1>letters back and forth and Dick's insistence, Perry said written.

0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:09.360
<v Speaker 1>Perry said LFG, let's fucking go, don't have you actually said?

0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:16.040
<v Speaker 1>And he probably didn't write LFG in Florida hand drawn

0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:20.840
<v Speaker 1>the little bomb thing. So it was planned that they

0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:25.440
<v Speaker 1>would meet in Olatha, which is close to the Missouri border,

0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:31.520
<v Speaker 1>in early November. Right, They got there on November fourteen.

0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:34.280
<v Speaker 2>This was quite a long time, like August to November.

0:32:34.360 --> 0:32:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because remember I said that they were planning it out. Yeah,

0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:40.120
<v Speaker 1>Dick moved back in with his parents so they could

0:32:40.880 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 1>plan it for a while without kind of the you know,

0:32:43.400 --> 0:32:45.720
<v Speaker 1>guards of the prison watching them, and he could save

0:32:45.800 --> 0:32:47.360
<v Speaker 1>up some money. They could both do some you know,

0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:51.080
<v Speaker 1>little jobs here and there to make some money, and

0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:52.920
<v Speaker 1>they wanted to make sure they had this plan or

0:32:53.000 --> 0:32:56.360
<v Speaker 1>you know down pat. They also knew that Floyd Wells

0:32:56.440 --> 0:32:58.320
<v Speaker 1>was the only other person that kind of as far

0:32:58.360 --> 0:33:00.440
<v Speaker 1>as they knew, knew about this cash and was playing

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:02.640
<v Speaker 1>a Robbie that he was still behind bars. So they

0:33:02.680 --> 0:33:04.160
<v Speaker 1>weren't like, oh, someone else is going to get the

0:33:04.200 --> 0:33:07.920
<v Speaker 1>cash first, you know. So on November fourteen, they stole

0:33:07.960 --> 0:33:11.680
<v Speaker 1>a car in Olatha and they drove four hundred miles

0:33:11.680 --> 0:33:15.280
<v Speaker 1>which is about six hundred and fifty kilometers, which to me,

0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:16.920
<v Speaker 1>my mind was like that, I don't really know what

0:33:16.920 --> 0:33:18.280
<v Speaker 1>that means. So I looked it up and that's the

0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:20.280
<v Speaker 1>same distance as if you were drive to drive from

0:33:20.320 --> 0:33:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Melbourne to Canberra.

0:33:21.800 --> 0:33:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a lot.

0:33:22.400 --> 0:33:25.479
<v Speaker 1>It's like eight hours. Ye into that like I mean

0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:28.160
<v Speaker 1>on Google Maps and said driving to Melbourne to Cambra

0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:29.640
<v Speaker 1>will be eight hours. Don't know how long it took

0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:31.360
<v Speaker 1>in like a Chevy in the y.

0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 2>That's such a long drive.

0:33:32.800 --> 0:33:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes, And they drive to a place called Garden City,

0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:50.880
<v Speaker 1>which is where Hulkham is. They stopped once on the

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:55.400
<v Speaker 1>way and bought nylon rope, rubber gloves, adhesive tape, and

0:33:55.440 --> 0:33:59.720
<v Speaker 1>a small pocket knife. They arrived in Garden City just

0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:04.320
<v Speaker 1>after midnight on December fifteenth, where they stopped for gas

0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:08.160
<v Speaker 1>and then they drove the final mile to Hulkham and

0:34:08.200 --> 0:34:12.359
<v Speaker 1>the River Valley Farm. River Valley Farm has a long,

0:34:12.440 --> 0:34:15.360
<v Speaker 1>a dirt driveway. Before they drove up to the farm,

0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:18.799
<v Speaker 1>they stopped at the base of the driveway to kind of,

0:34:19.080 --> 0:34:21.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, get themselves sighted up and like you know,

0:34:21.320 --> 0:34:23.239
<v Speaker 1>try to low with their nerves and get themselves ready

0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:25.680
<v Speaker 1>for this. They sat there to try to get their

0:34:25.680 --> 0:34:28.200
<v Speaker 1>head straight, and they saw a light go on in

0:34:28.239 --> 0:34:32.439
<v Speaker 1>another house nearby, and they totally freaked out. Dix said,

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:34.239
<v Speaker 1>we can't do this tonight. No, no, no, you know

0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:37.080
<v Speaker 1>there's lights on. It is really freaked down. But't together.

0:34:37.120 --> 0:34:40.200
<v Speaker 1>They catch their breaths, pull themselves together, and up they

0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:43.479
<v Speaker 1>go on the long driveway towards the Clutter family far.

0:34:43.480 --> 0:34:46.799
<v Speaker 2>Foot in the car in the car, like at least

0:34:46.800 --> 0:34:47.919
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of the way in the car.

0:34:48.000 --> 0:34:52.520
<v Speaker 1>And then yet they yeah, right up to the house. Sorry,

0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:55.040
<v Speaker 1>because the next sentence says they parked the car near

0:34:55.160 --> 0:34:59.200
<v Speaker 1>a side entrance to the house where Floyd had said

0:34:59.600 --> 0:35:03.879
<v Speaker 1>there was an office with the safe with the cash,

0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:07.400
<v Speaker 1>and the two men just wander straight in to the office.

0:35:07.320 --> 0:35:08.560
<v Speaker 2>In the family home.

0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's the nineteen fifties. It's a tiny town on

0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:18.839
<v Speaker 1>a farm that doors were locked. Now, as I said,

0:35:18.840 --> 0:35:21.799
<v Speaker 1>they stopped and bought rope tape and a pocket knife

0:35:22.239 --> 0:35:25.640
<v Speaker 1>and rubber gloves. But what they already had and brought

0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:29.799
<v Speaker 1>into the farm with them was a large flashlight, a

0:35:29.880 --> 0:35:35.880
<v Speaker 1>large hunting knife, and a shotgun for a robbery. Allegedly,

0:35:37.360 --> 0:35:41.239
<v Speaker 1>Dick has the knife and Perry has the gun. Now,

0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:43.320
<v Speaker 1>no one is in the office space that they walk into,

0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:46.040
<v Speaker 1>so they rifle around and search for the safe, but

0:35:46.080 --> 0:35:48.200
<v Speaker 1>they can't find it. Floyd had said it would behind

0:35:48.200 --> 0:35:50.440
<v Speaker 1>the desk. It wasn't there, the kind of looking in

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:53.640
<v Speaker 1>cupboards and stuff. And they're a bit confused because Floyd

0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:57.000
<v Speaker 1>had also described this office as that really large and fancy,

0:35:57.160 --> 0:35:59.080
<v Speaker 1>so they were assuming it would be really obvious this

0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:03.000
<v Speaker 1>family was load. The office they found themselves in was

0:36:03.160 --> 0:36:05.759
<v Speaker 1>just a tiny little home office was really modest and

0:36:05.800 --> 0:36:11.040
<v Speaker 1>really normal, and importantly, there was no safe. Dick in particular,

0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:12.000
<v Speaker 1>is pierced.

0:36:12.640 --> 0:36:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he had.

0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:16.719
<v Speaker 1>Planned this all out for months and was not going

0:36:16.760 --> 0:36:19.960
<v Speaker 1>to leave without his money. He'd been planning it, or

0:36:19.960 --> 0:36:23.840
<v Speaker 1>at least daydreaming about it for five years. So what

0:36:23.880 --> 0:36:26.200
<v Speaker 1>would you do if you were Dick and Perry in

0:36:26.200 --> 0:36:26.800
<v Speaker 1>this situation.

0:36:27.600 --> 0:36:29.480
<v Speaker 2>I would turn myself into prison.

0:36:30.239 --> 0:36:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Into prison, rock up to prison. Go excuse me, And

0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:38.919
<v Speaker 1>that's why you're good and that's why you're here today

0:36:39.040 --> 0:36:43.120
<v Speaker 1>not in prison. Well, Perry and Dick did was go

0:36:43.200 --> 0:36:45.080
<v Speaker 1>and ask the family where the money was.

0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:48.120
<v Speaker 2>So they're like holding them up and saying, you know

0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:49.080
<v Speaker 2>where the Moneys money.

0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:52.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I'm going to tell you exactly what they did. Unfortunately,

0:36:54.440 --> 0:37:00.600
<v Speaker 1>chat's break. Perry and Dick walk into her and Bonnie's

0:37:00.640 --> 0:37:04.360
<v Speaker 1>room and wake them with a flashlight. With the flashlight

0:37:04.440 --> 0:37:07.440
<v Speaker 1>flashlight straight to the eyes. Now, there are conflicting reports

0:37:07.480 --> 0:37:10.040
<v Speaker 1>here about whether the body was in that room or

0:37:10.120 --> 0:37:13.879
<v Speaker 1>another room. Because of her health issues, she would often

0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:16.440
<v Speaker 1>sleep in a different room, but either way, it was

0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:19.160
<v Speaker 1>their bedroom and at the very least Herb was in there.

0:37:20.200 --> 0:37:22.600
<v Speaker 1>He was woken up by flashlight to the eyes and

0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:25.640
<v Speaker 1>they demanded to know where the safe was. Herb said,

0:37:25.640 --> 0:37:27.680
<v Speaker 1>there is no safe in the house. They've never had

0:37:27.680 --> 0:37:31.560
<v Speaker 1>a safe, and there's definitely no cash. He famously pays

0:37:31.600 --> 0:37:36.160
<v Speaker 1>for everything by check. Everyone in town call back this up.

0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:38.120
<v Speaker 1>He says he never uses cash. He never gets paid

0:37:38.160 --> 0:37:40.480
<v Speaker 1>in cash. He never pays with cash. Everything is by

0:37:40.600 --> 0:37:42.960
<v Speaker 1>check because it's a business. He needs to come back

0:37:43.000 --> 0:37:45.640
<v Speaker 1>to that. He says that he will write these men

0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:48.719
<v Speaker 1>a check for any amount of money. He'll ride away

0:37:48.800 --> 0:37:52.280
<v Speaker 1>everything he has, but please, please, please leave my family alone.

0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:56.239
<v Speaker 1>This isn't good enough for Dick and Perry. They want

0:37:56.320 --> 0:38:01.520
<v Speaker 1>that cash money, so they go into every room. They

0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:04.840
<v Speaker 1>get the rest of the family and lock them all

0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 1>in the upstairs bathroom together, tying them up with the

0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:13.280
<v Speaker 1>rope that they brought while the family was then locked

0:38:13.320 --> 0:38:16.120
<v Speaker 1>in the bathroom. Dick and Perry turned the whole house

0:38:16.200 --> 0:38:20.040
<v Speaker 1>upside down looking for cash, looking for any valuables they

0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:23.440
<v Speaker 1>could find, but there was nothing. There was no safe

0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:26.440
<v Speaker 1>and there was no cash. Herb had been telling the truth,

0:38:27.239 --> 0:38:31.320
<v Speaker 1>So what did this make? These robbers do? Get even angrier,

0:38:33.760 --> 0:38:35.840
<v Speaker 1>so they decided to take it out on the family

0:38:38.080 --> 0:38:40.680
<v Speaker 1>and trigger warning here for the details about what happened.

0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Herb sorry, Dick and Perry go up to the bathroom.

0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:48.840
<v Speaker 1>They put tape over the mouths of the people that

0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:52.760
<v Speaker 1>they had tied up. Dick takes the two males, Herb

0:38:52.880 --> 0:38:55.799
<v Speaker 1>and fifteen year old Kenyon, down to the basement of

0:38:55.840 --> 0:38:59.400
<v Speaker 1>the house, where he throws Herb onto the floor and

0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:02.640
<v Speaker 1>tiesion up to a pipe in the corner of the room.

0:39:04.040 --> 0:39:07.520
<v Speaker 1>He then goes back upstairs, grabs sixteen year old Nancy,

0:39:08.239 --> 0:39:10.680
<v Speaker 1>takes her to her bed and ties her up to

0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:14.400
<v Speaker 1>her bed. Posts Now, when she's found she doesn't have

0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:17.360
<v Speaker 1>tape on her mouth. The other family members all do.

0:39:19.719 --> 0:39:22.440
<v Speaker 1>While this is happening, Perry is left in the bathroom

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:26.000
<v Speaker 1>to watch over Bonnie. She's hog tied on the floor

0:39:26.000 --> 0:39:29.799
<v Speaker 1>with her mouth taped. At one point he offered her

0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:35.799
<v Speaker 1>a chair because she looked uncomfortable. Then Dick comes into

0:39:35.840 --> 0:39:38.080
<v Speaker 1>the bathroom and does the same thing to Bonnie, taking

0:39:38.120 --> 0:39:40.600
<v Speaker 1>her to her bed and tying her to the bed posts.

0:39:42.719 --> 0:39:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Dick and Perry then go down to the basement, and

0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Perry notices that herb is cold on the floor. It's

0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.359
<v Speaker 1>a cement floor in the basement and it's winter. So

0:39:52.400 --> 0:39:55.239
<v Speaker 1>he gets pieces of cardboard and puts them down on

0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:58.880
<v Speaker 1>the floor and places herb on top of them to

0:39:58.920 --> 0:39:59.680
<v Speaker 1>make sure he's not.

0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:03.480
<v Speaker 2>As co It's such strange behavior in this sort of situation.

0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:07.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Now, while this is happening, it's almost as if

0:40:07.320 --> 0:40:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Kenyan seems to notice a hint of like compassion or

0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:14.320
<v Speaker 1>maybe like regret or softness or something. And Kenyan, the

0:40:14.360 --> 0:40:16.640
<v Speaker 1>fifteen year old boy, says that the ties that he's

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:19.560
<v Speaker 1>turned up to the pole of the pipe with are

0:40:19.600 --> 0:40:23.320
<v Speaker 1>kind of cutting off circulations to his wrists and they're hurting.

0:40:24.400 --> 0:40:27.000
<v Speaker 1>So Perry cuts him free, takes him to a couch

0:40:27.040 --> 0:40:30.080
<v Speaker 1>that's in the basement and ties him up there looser,

0:40:30.600 --> 0:40:33.160
<v Speaker 1>and brings him a pillow places under his head.

0:40:33.680 --> 0:40:37.840
<v Speaker 2>It's so bizarre. It is really behavior bizarre. Now, what

0:40:37.840 --> 0:40:39.320
<v Speaker 2>are you going to go through with this. You'd imagine

0:40:39.320 --> 0:40:40.480
<v Speaker 2>you'd be callous enough to.

0:40:40.719 --> 0:40:42.239
<v Speaker 1>This is the thing, right, So I don't want to

0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:44.200
<v Speaker 1>give any spoilers, but the episode is called The Clutter

0:40:44.200 --> 0:40:47.400
<v Speaker 1>Family Murders, so take from that what you will. But

0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:53.000
<v Speaker 1>it makes it so much weirder that they're making them comfortable. Yes, yeah,

0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:56.279
<v Speaker 1>The whole ordeal lasts around two hours.

0:40:56.640 --> 0:40:58.239
<v Speaker 2>It's awful. Can you like?

0:40:58.360 --> 0:41:00.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you can't. We can't and what that would

0:41:00.719 --> 0:41:04.040
<v Speaker 1>be like for that family. They're also and the two

0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Bonnie and Nancy are on their own in their own rooms,

0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:12.720
<v Speaker 1>tied up on their own. Herb and Kenyan are together

0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:15.120
<v Speaker 1>but you know, not being able to help each other

0:41:15.160 --> 0:41:16.960
<v Speaker 1>and not knowing what they can do and what's going

0:41:17.040 --> 0:41:22.279
<v Speaker 1>to happen. After two hours where we don't really know

0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:26.000
<v Speaker 1>what happened, Perry tells Dick to go and get the

0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:27.320
<v Speaker 1>knife and kill Herb.

0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:29.320
<v Speaker 2>God.

0:41:29.920 --> 0:41:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Perry says Dick was teasing him about not having the

0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:35.239
<v Speaker 1>guts to do it himself, saying, this is what we've

0:41:35.239 --> 0:41:38.520
<v Speaker 1>come here to do. So was it planned a planned

0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:42.080
<v Speaker 1>murder all along? This doesn't sound like just a robbery

0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:44.040
<v Speaker 1>for cash. If they're going, we'll come on, this is

0:41:44.080 --> 0:41:47.440
<v Speaker 1>what we came here to do, you do it? And

0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:49.520
<v Speaker 1>if it was a planned murder all along, why take

0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:53.000
<v Speaker 1>two hours and make it so cruel like doing, you know,

0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:55.400
<v Speaker 1>tying them up and everything and leaving them there for

0:41:55.440 --> 0:42:01.000
<v Speaker 1>so long. Then, after being teased by Dick, Perry does

0:42:01.080 --> 0:42:02.920
<v Speaker 1>exactly what I'm sure Dick was trying to get him

0:42:02.920 --> 0:42:07.080
<v Speaker 1>to do. Is reacts by grabbing the hunting knife from Dick,

0:42:07.719 --> 0:42:11.520
<v Speaker 1>and he slits Herb's throat in front of his fifteen

0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:17.640
<v Speaker 1>year old son. He then, because apparently this was necessary,

0:42:18.239 --> 0:42:23.360
<v Speaker 1>also shoots Herb at close range in the head. Shortly

0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:26.440
<v Speaker 1>after that, fifteen year old Kenyon is also shot in

0:42:26.480 --> 0:42:30.120
<v Speaker 1>the head at close range. When he's found, his head

0:42:30.160 --> 0:42:32.319
<v Speaker 1>is lying on the pillow that Perry had brought him.

0:42:34.640 --> 0:42:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Nancy and Bonnie are upstairs, and I can only assume

0:42:38.120 --> 0:42:41.759
<v Speaker 1>they would have heard two shots go out. Can you

0:42:41.880 --> 0:42:47.480
<v Speaker 1>fucking imagine? The terror wouldn't have lasted that long though

0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:50.440
<v Speaker 1>for them after hearing the shots, because after they had

0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:54.360
<v Speaker 1>killed Herb and Kenyon, the men went up to Nancy's

0:42:54.440 --> 0:42:58.600
<v Speaker 1>room and shot her sixteen year old Nancy in the face,

0:42:59.040 --> 0:43:03.640
<v Speaker 1>followed by Bonnie. The two men collected the shotgun shells

0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:06.480
<v Speaker 1>as they went around the house so as not to

0:43:06.560 --> 0:43:10.960
<v Speaker 1>leave a link to their gun. All four Clutter family

0:43:11.000 --> 0:43:13.720
<v Speaker 1>members were shot at very close range in the face

0:43:13.800 --> 0:43:17.560
<v Speaker 1>or the head. Herb was also cut to the throat.

0:43:18.200 --> 0:43:21.720
<v Speaker 1>About the shootings, Perry would later tell a court, which

0:43:21.760 --> 0:43:25.160
<v Speaker 1>is perhaps a spoiler as well, it was like picking

0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:27.080
<v Speaker 1>off targets in a shooting gallery.

0:43:28.120 --> 0:43:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Of course it was. It's horrender horrendous, correct use of

0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:33.239
<v Speaker 2>the word correct use.

0:43:35.000 --> 0:43:37.640
<v Speaker 1>When they were done raiding the house and killing an

0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:41.880
<v Speaker 1>entire innocent family, the men left with nothing but a

0:43:41.920 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 1>pair of binoculars, a transistor radio, and forty bucks they

0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:50.719
<v Speaker 1>found in Herb's wallet. All that for four lives.

0:43:51.200 --> 0:43:52.040
<v Speaker 2>It's disgusting.

0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:56.640
<v Speaker 1>They're also fucking stupid because there was an envelope full

0:43:56.640 --> 0:44:00.560
<v Speaker 1>of cash on Nancy's dresser that they just didn't see, guess,

0:44:01.040 --> 0:44:03.480
<v Speaker 1>And this is awful. The reason the sixteen year old

0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:05.520
<v Speaker 1>girl had an envelope full of cash on her dresser

0:44:05.760 --> 0:44:07.719
<v Speaker 1>was because she was going to make a donation to

0:44:07.760 --> 0:44:14.200
<v Speaker 1>the church the following morning. So sad Perry and Dick

0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:18.520
<v Speaker 1>drove off past the county boundary line, and then they

0:44:18.600 --> 0:44:21.600
<v Speaker 1>cleaned themselves and the gun off with the car's radiator water,

0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:25.320
<v Speaker 1>and then they dug a hole and buried the shotgun shells,

0:44:25.400 --> 0:44:28.600
<v Speaker 1>the tape and the rope just next to the highway.

0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:32.080
<v Speaker 1>They didn't bury the knife or the gun. I mean,

0:44:32.120 --> 0:44:35.440
<v Speaker 1>these guys are see you next tuesdays. They thought we

0:44:35.560 --> 0:44:37.440
<v Speaker 1>might be able to use these for something else. And

0:44:37.640 --> 0:44:39.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, they're petty criminals and they're stealing cars and

0:44:40.000 --> 0:44:41.759
<v Speaker 1>all sorts of things, so they're probably think we're not

0:44:41.760 --> 0:44:43.719
<v Speaker 1>going to get rid of our weapons. We might need that.

0:44:46.920 --> 0:44:51.520
<v Speaker 1>The following day, a Sunday morning, the Clutters didn't arrive

0:44:52.200 --> 0:44:55.920
<v Speaker 1>to Nancy's friend, Susan Kidwell's house to pick her up

0:44:55.920 --> 0:45:00.399
<v Speaker 1>for church, as they always did. Nancy and her family Sorry,

0:45:00.520 --> 0:45:04.240
<v Speaker 1>Susan and her family were concerned immediately. They tried calling

0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:06.480
<v Speaker 1>the Clutter house a number of times and got no answer.

0:45:07.440 --> 0:45:10.920
<v Speaker 1>So Nancy and a friend, sorry this is confusing, Susan

0:45:11.000 --> 0:45:14.160
<v Speaker 1>and a friend whose name was also Nancy, Oh sure, yep,

0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:17.800
<v Speaker 1>and this Nancy's dad went over to the Clutter farm

0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:20.880
<v Speaker 1>to check that all was okay. They could tell something

0:45:20.960 --> 0:45:23.680
<v Speaker 1>was off immediately when they arrived because the family's car

0:45:23.920 --> 0:45:26.400
<v Speaker 1>was there they should have been at church, and there

0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:29.040
<v Speaker 1>were no lights on in the house, no noises coming

0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:32.400
<v Speaker 1>from there at all. The dad had been working on

0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:34.160
<v Speaker 1>his farm that morning, so I said, I don't want

0:45:34.200 --> 0:45:36.719
<v Speaker 1>to trapes mud through the house. I'll take off my

0:45:36.760 --> 0:45:39.600
<v Speaker 1>boots and you girls go ahead and call out to

0:45:39.640 --> 0:45:43.960
<v Speaker 1>your friend. So Susan and Nancy, two young girls, go

0:45:44.080 --> 0:45:45.239
<v Speaker 1>into the clutter farm.

0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:47.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

0:45:47.200 --> 0:45:50.359
<v Speaker 1>The kitchen door was unlocked, which was normal, but there

0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:53.040
<v Speaker 1>were no signs anyone had made breakfast, which was odd

0:45:53.040 --> 0:45:54.480
<v Speaker 1>for this time of the morning in a house full

0:45:54.520 --> 0:45:59.600
<v Speaker 1>of people. Then they saw Nancy's purse open on the floor,

0:46:00.400 --> 0:46:03.040
<v Speaker 1>so they started calling out for their friend and walked

0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:07.239
<v Speaker 1>up towards her bedroom. They saw the door ajar and

0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:10.680
<v Speaker 1>they went in, and they saw Nancy on the bed,

0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:15.280
<v Speaker 1>wearing her nightie, bound to the bed by her hands

0:46:15.320 --> 0:46:19.680
<v Speaker 1>and feet, with cords torn from her curtains. There was

0:46:19.719 --> 0:46:24.120
<v Speaker 1>blood all over the walls, floor, and roof, and her

0:46:24.160 --> 0:46:26.440
<v Speaker 1>face was not recognizable because it had been shot at

0:46:26.480 --> 0:46:32.160
<v Speaker 1>such close range. Susan later said she didn't remember screaming.

0:46:32.840 --> 0:46:36.040
<v Speaker 1>She only remembered seeing Nancy's teddy bear staring at her

0:46:36.960 --> 0:46:41.600
<v Speaker 1>and her friend running away. The dad heard the screens

0:46:42.160 --> 0:46:44.640
<v Speaker 1>and the girls running out, so he went in and

0:46:44.680 --> 0:46:48.360
<v Speaker 1>he saw the same thing. He called the sheriff immediately.

0:46:49.760 --> 0:46:56.080
<v Speaker 1>They had only seen Nancy. Finney County Sheriff Earl Robinson

0:46:56.560 --> 0:46:59.400
<v Speaker 1>called in his friend at the Kansas Bureau the KBI,

0:46:59.640 --> 0:47:02.960
<v Speaker 1>not the behind back for Kansas, his friend Alvin Dewey,

0:47:03.920 --> 0:47:07.000
<v Speaker 1>who both came out and it was them who searched

0:47:07.000 --> 0:47:10.719
<v Speaker 1>the whole house and discovered the horrors. Also in Bonnie's

0:47:10.719 --> 0:47:16.400
<v Speaker 1>bedroom and the basement. They found Bonnie as they had

0:47:16.400 --> 0:47:20.319
<v Speaker 1>found Nancy. They found a Kenyon who had been shot

0:47:20.360 --> 0:47:22.280
<v Speaker 1>in the face with his head still on the pillow

0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:26.080
<v Speaker 1>on the couch, and they found herb hung from a

0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:29.759
<v Speaker 1>pipe in the basement. So after they they think it

0:47:29.840 --> 0:47:32.440
<v Speaker 1>was possible that he had been tortured before he was killed.

0:47:35.360 --> 0:47:38.879
<v Speaker 1>So the Finney County Sheriff's Department and the KBI had

0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:44.560
<v Speaker 1>a quadruple homicide and zero idea what happened. The family

0:47:44.640 --> 0:47:48.160
<v Speaker 1>had no known enemies, there were no dodgy business dealings,

0:47:48.520 --> 0:47:53.480
<v Speaker 1>and no one had seen nor heard a thing. Seventeen

0:47:53.520 --> 0:47:57.000
<v Speaker 1>investigators were assigned to the case. It was initially thought

0:47:57.040 --> 0:47:59.279
<v Speaker 1>to be a robbery gone wrong, which is kind of

0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:04.360
<v Speaker 1>semi right maybe, but they were confused by the cash

0:48:04.440 --> 0:48:08.720
<v Speaker 1>left in Nancy's room, and that both Bonnie and herb

0:48:08.880 --> 0:48:12.319
<v Speaker 1>were wearing gold wedding rings and Bonnie a diamond engagement ring.

0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:16.319
<v Speaker 2>It's bizarre they didn't take those because they're fucking stupid. Yeah, yeah,

0:48:16.640 --> 0:48:18.319
<v Speaker 2>I just want to cash because that's what they can.

0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:20.520
<v Speaker 1>I just think that maybe weren't even smart enough to

0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:23.080
<v Speaker 1>like look to think about.

0:48:23.320 --> 0:48:26.680
<v Speaker 2>I didn't find the money on the dresser. Then you're like, well, yeah.

0:48:26.480 --> 0:48:28.520
<v Speaker 1>But it's because they said they ransacked the whole house

0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:31.200
<v Speaker 1>looking for cash. But they were just looking for that

0:48:31.320 --> 0:48:34.520
<v Speaker 1>massive sum of cash. I don't know how and why

0:48:34.560 --> 0:48:38.680
<v Speaker 1>they ended up like taking nicking a transistor radio and

0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:43.080
<v Speaker 1>a pair of Yeah, but why not then why wouldn't

0:48:43.080 --> 0:48:45.320
<v Speaker 1>you be thinking about jewelry and stuff. They're just idiots,

0:48:46.719 --> 0:48:51.480
<v Speaker 1>like dangerous, horrible criminal audience. There was one funeral held

0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:53.240
<v Speaker 1>for the four Clutter family members.

0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:56.160
<v Speaker 2>One funeral, Yeah, which is I.

0:48:56.040 --> 0:48:59.120
<v Speaker 1>Think, well, it's more devastating because I meant there were

0:48:59.200 --> 0:49:05.000
<v Speaker 1>full casks they're all together. More than one thousand people

0:49:05.160 --> 0:49:08.760
<v Speaker 1>attended the funeral, which is an amazing for a small

0:49:08.800 --> 0:49:12.080
<v Speaker 1>town in the fifties, like a wild.

0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:14.400
<v Speaker 6>It shows how well loved and respected they were exactly,

0:49:14.920 --> 0:49:17.760
<v Speaker 6>and the town was so small that the KBI offices

0:49:17.800 --> 0:49:21.279
<v Speaker 6>and local sheriffs were there not because they were investigating

0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:24.200
<v Speaker 6>their deaths, but because they knew Herbs.

0:49:24.280 --> 0:49:24.840
<v Speaker 2>So sad.

0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:27.279
<v Speaker 1>So then that makes you realize that Alvin Dewey and

0:49:27.400 --> 0:49:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Earl Robinson, when they went into the house to find

0:49:31.640 --> 0:49:36.600
<v Speaker 1>what they did, that was someone they knew. Oh god,

0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:41.760
<v Speaker 1>it's just so much more awful. So the investigators started

0:49:41.800 --> 0:49:45.040
<v Speaker 1>looking into whether it could have been a Sorry, so

0:49:45.640 --> 0:49:47.879
<v Speaker 1>when I was saying about them thinking it was maybe

0:49:47.880 --> 0:49:50.320
<v Speaker 1>a robbery gone wrong, when they found that their jewelry

0:49:50.400 --> 0:49:52.560
<v Speaker 1>was still there, that the envelope of kash is still there,

0:49:53.000 --> 0:49:55.479
<v Speaker 1>they were like, actually, it feels more like someone's trying

0:49:55.520 --> 0:49:58.040
<v Speaker 1>to make it look like a robbery by kind of

0:49:58.080 --> 0:50:00.239
<v Speaker 1>throwing things around and leaving an open wall, lot on

0:50:00.280 --> 0:50:02.960
<v Speaker 1>the floor and stuff like that. So they started looking

0:50:02.960 --> 0:50:05.560
<v Speaker 1>into whether this could have possibly been a grudge killing

0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:09.480
<v Speaker 1>against shorbe they had no ideas otherwise. So like right,

0:50:09.960 --> 0:50:14.240
<v Speaker 1>Herbs a prominent businessman and politician, like we know, works

0:50:14.360 --> 0:50:19.600
<v Speaker 1>with political alliances. There are a few people around town

0:50:19.640 --> 0:50:22.520
<v Speaker 1>who did say, like, I mean, yeah, I suppose there'll

0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:25.520
<v Speaker 1>always be people unhappy with you know, a businessman who's

0:50:25.560 --> 0:50:28.360
<v Speaker 1>doing well and someone aligned with politics.

0:50:28.840 --> 0:50:29.040
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.

0:50:30.040 --> 0:50:36.680
<v Speaker 1>Another suspect came up. Who was Nancy's boyfriend, seventeen year old.

0:50:36.880 --> 0:50:37.680
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember his name?

0:50:37.760 --> 0:50:40.000
<v Speaker 2>No, Bobby Rup, Bobby Roup, I'll be up, of course,

0:50:40.000 --> 0:50:40.520
<v Speaker 2>Bobby Up.

0:50:41.080 --> 0:50:43.200
<v Speaker 1>He was the last person to have seen the Clutter

0:50:43.239 --> 0:50:47.680
<v Speaker 1>family alive. He visited the Clutter home on November fourteen

0:50:48.880 --> 0:50:52.479
<v Speaker 1>to watch television with Nancy and her family and said

0:50:52.480 --> 0:50:57.080
<v Speaker 1>he left around eleven PM. Now we know now investigators

0:50:57.080 --> 0:50:58.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't at the time that Perry and Dick got there

0:50:58.880 --> 0:51:01.960
<v Speaker 1>around midnight, so they very well could have been a

0:51:02.000 --> 0:51:04.640
<v Speaker 1>fifth victim in this if Bobby Rupp was still there.

0:51:05.120 --> 0:51:06.640
<v Speaker 1>But of course they didn't know that at the time.

0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:10.080
<v Speaker 1>They were looking into why he could have you know,

0:51:10.120 --> 0:51:11.680
<v Speaker 1>why he was the last person to see them alive.

0:51:11.760 --> 0:51:13.520
<v Speaker 1>And of course, as we always say, it's always the

0:51:13.600 --> 0:51:14.440
<v Speaker 1>husband and the boyfriend.

0:51:14.560 --> 0:51:16.560
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, and or and.

0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:19.719
<v Speaker 1>It's always the husband and the boy usually. Yeah, that's

0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:24.760
<v Speaker 1>the motive. Boyfriend. Now, people in the town started to gossip,

0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:30.319
<v Speaker 1>of course they did. There's four and gossip came up

0:51:30.360 --> 0:51:33.320
<v Speaker 1>about Bobby Rupp as well. There was there were rumors

0:51:33.320 --> 0:51:36.360
<v Speaker 1>that there had been tensions in the family about Nancy

0:51:36.400 --> 0:51:40.279
<v Speaker 1>and Bobby's relationship because the Clutters were Seventh day a

0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:45.640
<v Speaker 1>dventists and Bobby was Catholic, right, okay, and the relationship

0:51:45.640 --> 0:51:47.520
<v Speaker 1>was getting pretty serious. They've been together for a couple

0:51:47.560 --> 0:51:50.439
<v Speaker 1>of years, so maybe there were some fights about whether

0:51:50.560 --> 0:51:55.399
<v Speaker 1>Nancy was allowed to continue seeing Bobby. But no matter

0:51:55.480 --> 0:51:57.960
<v Speaker 1>of these suspicions, whether it was a business or political

0:51:58.040 --> 0:52:00.799
<v Speaker 1>grudge or something to do with Bobby and Nancy relationship,

0:52:00.880 --> 0:52:07.160
<v Speaker 1>police needed evidence to grow more than suspicions about anyone. Yeah,

0:52:07.480 --> 0:52:11.880
<v Speaker 1>the evidence they found in the house was boot prints

0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:15.640
<v Speaker 1>in the blood on the floor of the basement and

0:52:16.360 --> 0:52:18.360
<v Speaker 1>the one in the blood on the floor, and another

0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:20.640
<v Speaker 1>bootprint on the cardboard that had been put down from

0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:23.600
<v Speaker 1>so he didn't get cold before brutally murdering and probably

0:52:23.640 --> 0:52:24.279
<v Speaker 1>torturing him.

0:52:24.520 --> 0:52:27.480
<v Speaker 2>Bootprints is so odd in the blood, that is so strange.

0:52:27.680 --> 0:52:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, they were very clear bootprints. One had a diamond

0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:37.080
<v Speaker 1>pattern on the sole and another bootprint had a Cat's

0:52:37.120 --> 0:52:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Pool brand logo. That's so distinct, very distinct, two different brands,

0:52:44.080 --> 0:52:47.600
<v Speaker 1>So two different boots, and no shoes in the clutterhouse

0:52:47.719 --> 0:52:52.000
<v Speaker 1>matched either of these shoes. So suddenly police are looking

0:52:52.040 --> 0:52:56.160
<v Speaker 1>for two killers. Yes, yeah, police determine the type of

0:52:56.160 --> 0:53:00.200
<v Speaker 1>gunshot used. And just four days after the murders, they

0:53:00.239 --> 0:53:03.920
<v Speaker 1>found some upturned earth next to the highway. So someone

0:53:03.920 --> 0:53:05.960
<v Speaker 1>had said that they had noticed blood on like the

0:53:06.000 --> 0:53:08.439
<v Speaker 1>bridge crossing and then saw this like part like piece

0:53:08.480 --> 0:53:12.800
<v Speaker 1>of upturned earth. So they called police and they police

0:53:12.880 --> 0:53:17.200
<v Speaker 1>dug very like for thirty seconds. It was a very

0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:21.520
<v Speaker 1>shallow grave. Found the tape, the rope, the shell casings,

0:53:22.120 --> 0:53:24.600
<v Speaker 1>which of course matched the type of gun that they'd

0:53:24.640 --> 0:53:25.360
<v Speaker 1>worked out had.

0:53:25.200 --> 0:53:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Been used, saying they didn't try and hide it, like

0:53:27.560 --> 0:53:28.520
<v Speaker 2>just a second.

0:53:28.239 --> 0:53:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Fucking idiots. Maybe we'll retitle this episode.

0:53:31.280 --> 0:53:43.240
<v Speaker 4>They're fucking idiots.

0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:47.640
<v Speaker 1>So suddenly it seems to police that they could be

0:53:47.760 --> 0:53:52.040
<v Speaker 1>looking for strangers. Perhaps there were no grudges or family

0:53:52.400 --> 0:53:57.600
<v Speaker 1>dynamics at play here. It looked like someone was two

0:53:57.640 --> 0:54:01.360
<v Speaker 1>people had come in and just killed them. The murders

0:54:01.360 --> 0:54:05.799
<v Speaker 1>were huge news. It was a tiny, tiny community and

0:54:05.920 --> 0:54:09.760
<v Speaker 1>everyone in the community was really close. People stopped leaving

0:54:09.800 --> 0:54:12.440
<v Speaker 1>their homes for the first time ever. They bought locks

0:54:12.480 --> 0:54:15.759
<v Speaker 1>for their homes. The idea that strangers could have come

0:54:15.800 --> 0:54:20.400
<v Speaker 1>in and murdered a beloved, quiet, young religious family was

0:54:20.440 --> 0:54:24.880
<v Speaker 1>more terrifying than any other prospects anyone could imagine. It

0:54:25.000 --> 0:54:28.520
<v Speaker 1>quickly went from local news to national news too. Murders

0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:31.640
<v Speaker 1>of this level just didn't happen in small town farming communities.

0:54:34.239 --> 0:54:39.000
<v Speaker 1>And because this made national news, a man named Floyd

0:54:39.080 --> 0:54:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Wells heard what happened. He was still in jail and

0:54:43.440 --> 0:54:46.640
<v Speaker 1>heard it on the radio. He didn't want to get

0:54:46.719 --> 0:54:51.120
<v Speaker 1>drawn into it, so we didn't say anything yet. But

0:54:51.239 --> 0:54:54.400
<v Speaker 1>after two weeks he decided he needed to unload his

0:54:54.440 --> 0:54:57.040
<v Speaker 1>burden where there was his conscious God the better of him.

0:54:57.280 --> 0:54:59.360
<v Speaker 2>Two weeks was that yeah, oh well.

0:54:59.280 --> 0:55:04.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he had only told them a Todd, Perry and

0:55:04.600 --> 0:55:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Dick about the cash, and he knew the family like

0:55:07.440 --> 0:55:09.640
<v Speaker 1>he'd worked with them, so yeah, maybe his conscience couldn't

0:55:09.640 --> 0:55:12.400
<v Speaker 1>handle the fact that they'd been killed. He made a

0:55:12.440 --> 0:55:15.280
<v Speaker 1>plan to be called into the said the burden's office,

0:55:15.360 --> 0:55:16.360
<v Speaker 1>the warden's.

0:55:15.920 --> 0:55:23.319
<v Speaker 8>Office exactly, but he wanted to do so under false pretenses,

0:55:23.440 --> 0:55:25.759
<v Speaker 8>because you know, you don't snitch in jail the last

0:55:25.760 --> 0:55:27.319
<v Speaker 8>thing you do snitch, So someone to just send him

0:55:27.360 --> 0:55:29.440
<v Speaker 8>walk into the warden's office, they'd be like, the fuck

0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:30.360
<v Speaker 8>you doing wells?

0:55:30.480 --> 0:55:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Snitches get stitches, That's what I've written. Oh, I had

0:55:34.600 --> 0:55:36.600
<v Speaker 2>another one with chocolate nappies.

0:55:37.080 --> 0:55:39.799
<v Speaker 1>That's you've said that before. I hate that.

0:55:41.320 --> 0:55:43.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, okay, you're.

0:55:43.760 --> 0:55:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Gonna say sorry, Okay, say sorry.

0:55:46.480 --> 0:55:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:55:50.120 --> 0:55:52.279
<v Speaker 1>So he whacked a guy so we would get caught

0:55:52.320 --> 0:55:53.160
<v Speaker 1>into the warden's office.

0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's a.

0:55:53.920 --> 0:55:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Good guy too.

0:55:54.800 --> 0:56:00.760
<v Speaker 5>And when I say, like, yes, didn't term yeah a whack,

0:56:00.840 --> 0:56:03.080
<v Speaker 5>that's when you're like a contract killing.

0:56:03.680 --> 0:56:10.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's also that's wap. As soon as I said that,

0:56:10.560 --> 0:56:13.840
<v Speaker 1>I need say that, I think I'm thinking of wham.

0:56:13.480 --> 0:56:18.920
<v Speaker 2>And yah yah yeah pussy. No in old like you know,

0:56:19.000 --> 0:56:21.239
<v Speaker 2>like all Batman. That's what I was thinking of, the

0:56:21.280 --> 0:56:24.319
<v Speaker 2>old you know, the oldom with Adam West. Yeah. Yeah,

0:56:24.480 --> 0:56:29.560
<v Speaker 2>swack pow wham. But I said, whelse pussy, that's what

0:56:29.600 --> 0:56:29.919
<v Speaker 2>you said.

0:56:32.640 --> 0:56:38.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well I've updated this story. So Perry's writing let's sucking.

0:56:37.920 --> 0:56:43.799
<v Speaker 2>Go, Yeah, to relate to kids. We're trying to get

0:56:43.800 --> 0:56:45.400
<v Speaker 2>a big booktop.

0:56:45.040 --> 0:56:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Booktog exactly, trying to get some young listeners.

0:56:47.320 --> 0:56:51.680
<v Speaker 8>And then he said, he said, get a bucket, mopsy.

0:56:52.080 --> 0:56:55.440
<v Speaker 1>You didn't need to say that. You've gone too far. Sorry.

0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:03.399
<v Speaker 1>So it gets called into the wardensis and he as

0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:05.920
<v Speaker 1>soon as he was in there, and he was alone

0:57:05.960 --> 0:57:09.720
<v Speaker 1>with the warden, he spilled on his belief that Perry

0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:13.719
<v Speaker 1>and Dick could have been the killers. He said he

0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:20.520
<v Speaker 1>remembered Herb Cutter Clutter paying him for a job. So sorry,

0:57:20.520 --> 0:57:22.160
<v Speaker 1>this is what he said to the warden that he

0:57:22.200 --> 0:57:26.160
<v Speaker 1>had said to Dick that he remembered Herb Clutter paying

0:57:26.240 --> 0:57:28.720
<v Speaker 1>him for a job with a large wad of cash

0:57:28.800 --> 0:57:32.080
<v Speaker 1>that had come from a safe. He said he remembered

0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Herb saying that he'd been paid ten thousand dollars that day,

0:57:36.200 --> 0:57:39.240
<v Speaker 1>so assumed that that cash was in the safe as well,

0:57:40.440 --> 0:57:43.000
<v Speaker 1>and that he described where the safe was and the

0:57:43.040 --> 0:57:47.479
<v Speaker 1>farm to Dick. Now, what is interesting here is that

0:57:48.360 --> 0:57:50.840
<v Speaker 1>he never was paid in cash. He never saw a

0:57:50.880 --> 0:57:54.280
<v Speaker 1>safe in the Clutter farm, so whether his memories were

0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:56.720
<v Speaker 1>mixed up, remember how he said as well, the office

0:57:56.800 --> 0:57:57.520
<v Speaker 1>was really.

0:57:57.280 --> 0:58:00.080
<v Speaker 2>Like the family yeah, yeah.

0:58:00.000 --> 0:58:02.680
<v Speaker 1>And there was never a safe in the Clutter family

0:58:02.920 --> 0:58:05.920
<v Speaker 1>farm never. So it's like he's got the memories of

0:58:06.000 --> 0:58:09.920
<v Speaker 1>two different stories, two different times of being paid by

0:58:09.960 --> 0:58:11.160
<v Speaker 1>someone that contract.

0:58:11.920 --> 0:58:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, especial when he knew that he worked for them.

0:58:14.320 --> 0:58:15.120
<v Speaker 2>It's very weird to get here.

0:58:15.200 --> 0:58:16.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. But then like he worked there for a few months,

0:58:16.960 --> 0:58:19.560
<v Speaker 1>but he worked other places in the years following as well.

0:58:19.560 --> 0:58:21.760
<v Speaker 1>It's like he's got those two stories mixed up, and

0:58:21.800 --> 0:58:24.160
<v Speaker 1>there were like they went back and found the check

0:58:24.160 --> 0:58:27.640
<v Speaker 1>stubs that he'd been paid by herb Clutter with a check. Yeah,

0:58:27.920 --> 0:58:29.840
<v Speaker 1>so he's got these two stories mixed up. I don't

0:58:29.880 --> 0:58:31.800
<v Speaker 1>know Fluyd Well's background. I don't know if it was,

0:58:31.880 --> 0:58:35.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, a bit fifty cent short of a dollar

0:58:35.920 --> 0:58:38.640
<v Speaker 1>or drug fucked or something. I don't know, But for

0:58:38.680 --> 0:58:41.800
<v Speaker 1>whatever reason, he was adamant that herb Clutter had paid

0:58:41.880 --> 0:58:45.200
<v Speaker 1>him ten thousand, sorry, had put him to this, had

0:58:45.200 --> 0:58:47.440
<v Speaker 1>paid him in cash that he remembered it coming from

0:58:47.440 --> 0:58:49.440
<v Speaker 1>a safe that was behind a desk in the office.

0:58:49.560 --> 0:58:52.320
<v Speaker 1>But when he described the office and the farm, it

0:58:52.480 --> 0:58:55.320
<v Speaker 1>was exactly as the like it was. The location of

0:58:55.360 --> 0:58:58.000
<v Speaker 1>the office was where I said it would be.

0:58:58.280 --> 0:59:06.000
<v Speaker 2>That's bizarre, Yes, Purpurpur trying to.

0:59:07.200 --> 0:59:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Is that it is that like skid skid?

0:59:19.320 --> 0:59:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not that what as queen?

0:59:25.520 --> 0:59:26.200
<v Speaker 7>Yas queen?

0:59:26.760 --> 0:59:35.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, hunting and also yeat, I'm gonna out of here, young,

0:59:40.160 --> 0:59:45.160
<v Speaker 1>loll out loud loud. So this is a quote from

0:59:45.240 --> 0:59:50.040
<v Speaker 1>Floyd Wells to the warden. I suspect I talked too

0:59:50.120 --> 0:59:53.880
<v Speaker 1>much about the money. Mister Clutter had talked a lot

0:59:53.920 --> 0:59:56.960
<v Speaker 1>about Perry Smith said after they got out of the joint,

0:59:57.040 --> 0:59:59.040
<v Speaker 1>they could pull some jobs to get enough money for

0:59:59.080 --> 1:00:01.919
<v Speaker 1>a down payment on a boat. They would run charter

1:00:02.040 --> 1:00:05.600
<v Speaker 1>services for deep sea fishermen and eventually make contacts and

1:00:05.680 --> 1:00:09.640
<v Speaker 1>use the boat to bring in narcotics. I didn't believe Hiccock,

1:00:09.720 --> 1:00:12.400
<v Speaker 1>but he kept talking about it. I tried to talk

1:00:12.480 --> 1:00:14.920
<v Speaker 1>him out of it, said he would get caught, but

1:00:15.040 --> 1:00:18.280
<v Speaker 1>he said he had a plan and after the robbery

1:00:18.640 --> 1:00:22.280
<v Speaker 1>he would kill everyone there and leave no witnesses. Oh God,

1:00:23.120 --> 1:00:27.720
<v Speaker 1>So he'd said that to Floyd Wells in jail. So

1:00:27.960 --> 1:00:31.880
<v Speaker 1>all thoughts we might have had speculation about whether the

1:00:32.040 --> 1:00:35.000
<v Speaker 1>killing was or what went wrong. I mean they went

1:00:35.040 --> 1:00:37.520
<v Speaker 1>in with a hunting knife and a gun. There was

1:00:37.560 --> 1:00:40.440
<v Speaker 1>all this thing saying, remember how Dick had said earlier,

1:00:40.520 --> 1:00:42.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, why would you do what? You know, we

1:00:42.360 --> 1:00:46.280
<v Speaker 1>said we were coming here to do all of that. Yeah,

1:00:46.520 --> 1:00:49.200
<v Speaker 1>it sounds like they had planned to do this all along. Absolutely,

1:00:50.200 --> 1:00:54.960
<v Speaker 1>So the KBI finally had the names of two suspects.

1:00:55.640 --> 1:00:58.640
<v Speaker 1>While this investigation was going on, Dick and Berry were

1:00:58.640 --> 1:01:02.560
<v Speaker 1>on the run. They drove to Mexico. They pawned the

1:01:02.560 --> 1:01:06.120
<v Speaker 1>binoculars and the radio that they'd stolen. They stole more

1:01:06.160 --> 1:01:09.480
<v Speaker 1>cars along the way so they couldn't be traced. They

1:01:09.480 --> 1:01:14.160
<v Speaker 1>committed thefts and then eventually came back to the US

1:01:14.320 --> 1:01:17.240
<v Speaker 1>so they could also forge checks. They kind of run

1:01:17.280 --> 1:01:19.600
<v Speaker 1>out of money in Mexico and give you a way

1:01:19.600 --> 1:01:19.960
<v Speaker 1>to do that.

1:01:20.160 --> 1:01:20.400
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

1:01:20.640 --> 1:01:25.040
<v Speaker 1>So they kept stealing cars, ditching, stealing, forging checks, buying

1:01:25.080 --> 1:01:29.040
<v Speaker 1>things like suits, like fancy things, anything that they could.

1:01:29.400 --> 1:01:31.960
<v Speaker 1>They kept in touch with their family via payphones, but

1:01:32.000 --> 1:01:35.800
<v Speaker 1>always lying about where they were. All the while police

1:01:35.840 --> 1:01:40.640
<v Speaker 1>were launching a massive, large scale manhunt. They went into

1:01:40.720 --> 1:01:43.400
<v Speaker 1>these men's criminal records and were able to use these

1:01:43.440 --> 1:01:47.000
<v Speaker 1>to find and talk to family members and former criminal

1:01:47.040 --> 1:01:51.480
<v Speaker 1>associates to try to track down their movements. On December nine,

1:01:52.120 --> 1:01:56.280
<v Speaker 1>so remember November fifteen, I mean overnight between November fourteen

1:01:56.280 --> 1:01:58.720
<v Speaker 1>and fifteen is when the murders occurred. On December nine,

1:01:59.400 --> 1:02:05.800
<v Speaker 1>police got a warrant to search Dick. He got hiccups.

1:02:09.160 --> 1:02:12.360
<v Speaker 1>That was like a thwack, like the bay where you

1:02:12.520 --> 1:02:18.040
<v Speaker 1>the noise sounds like what you're saying, No, don't say

1:02:18.120 --> 1:02:22.320
<v Speaker 1>that word again that you're going to say it. I

1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:24.000
<v Speaker 1>can feel it, you're going to just throw it out there.

1:02:25.640 --> 1:02:31.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't don't desecrat Claudia's cat stickers by saying that

1:02:31.240 --> 1:02:35.120
<v Speaker 1>yucky word thank you. So they got a warrant to

1:02:35.160 --> 1:02:39.560
<v Speaker 1>search Dick Hiccock's or Hiccup's family farm, and there they

1:02:39.640 --> 1:02:43.560
<v Speaker 1>found the hunting knife used to slit Herb Clutter's throat

1:02:44.000 --> 1:02:47.840
<v Speaker 1>and the shotgun used to kill all four family members.

1:02:48.320 --> 1:02:51.120
<v Speaker 1>But they didn't find was the men. They were not there.

1:02:52.760 --> 1:02:56.920
<v Speaker 1>On December thirty, police in Las Vegas spotted a car

1:02:57.120 --> 1:02:59.680
<v Speaker 1>that had been reported as stolen a few days early on.

1:03:00.360 --> 1:03:03.439
<v Speaker 1>They pulled it over routine and he's a stolen cars.

1:03:03.440 --> 1:03:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Pull these guys over and ask them about the car,

1:03:05.720 --> 1:03:08.240
<v Speaker 1>and they could not believe their eyes when in the

1:03:08.280 --> 1:03:12.160
<v Speaker 1>car they saw the two men whose mugshots had been

1:03:12.200 --> 1:03:16.160
<v Speaker 1>plastered everywhere as the men wanted over the Clutter family

1:03:16.640 --> 1:03:19.040
<v Speaker 1>murders in Kansas six weeks earlier.

1:03:20.800 --> 1:03:24.080
<v Speaker 2>It's such a like a like he happens happenstance, like

1:03:24.160 --> 1:03:27.360
<v Speaker 2>he was like wow, like pulling them over and realizing

1:03:27.400 --> 1:03:29.200
<v Speaker 2>and not just letting them go like that.

1:03:29.400 --> 1:03:31.200
<v Speaker 1>And how often do you hear about things like that?

1:03:31.280 --> 1:03:31.600
<v Speaker 1>As well?

1:03:31.640 --> 1:03:33.600
<v Speaker 2>The police Department's not communicating to each other.

1:03:34.600 --> 1:03:36.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but because this was such a big and like

1:03:36.760 --> 1:03:39.040
<v Speaker 1>that would have happened if this story hadn't become such

1:03:39.080 --> 1:03:41.160
<v Speaker 1>a massivenational news because it was a family in this

1:03:41.200 --> 1:03:44.840
<v Speaker 1>small like farming town and everything. So Perry Smith and

1:03:44.920 --> 1:03:49.520
<v Speaker 1>Dick Hickock were arrested without incident, kind of surprisingly. They

1:03:49.520 --> 1:03:52.480
<v Speaker 1>were transferred back to Finley County in Kansas, and they

1:03:52.480 --> 1:03:56.720
<v Speaker 1>would charged with four counts of murder. The media called

1:03:56.800 --> 1:03:59.960
<v Speaker 1>them weak faced, Hiccock and runty Smith.

1:04:00.400 --> 1:04:00.720
<v Speaker 9>Wow.

1:04:00.800 --> 1:04:01.480
<v Speaker 2>What names.

1:04:01.520 --> 1:04:04.440
<v Speaker 1>I just think it's soid. It's like so nineteen fifty. Yeah,

1:04:04.480 --> 1:04:05.320
<v Speaker 1>it's like really cute.

1:04:05.360 --> 1:04:11.920
<v Speaker 5>So also personally, yeah, exactly, and like they're kind of cute, yes, yeah,

1:04:11.960 --> 1:04:15.320
<v Speaker 5>like you know, weak faced and runty, Like these days

1:04:15.360 --> 1:04:17.200
<v Speaker 5>we kind of go, that's like, oh, that's cute to

1:04:17.240 --> 1:04:19.640
<v Speaker 5>you that, But I love You're right, it's personal.

1:04:19.400 --> 1:04:21.320
<v Speaker 1>For the media to be going, We're not just going

1:04:21.320 --> 1:04:27.760
<v Speaker 1>to call him face TiKKO ye yeah. Yeah. Now, when arrested,

1:04:27.840 --> 1:04:30.320
<v Speaker 1>Dick immediately tried to pin the whole thing on Perry.

1:04:30.520 --> 1:04:31.040
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1:04:31.720 --> 1:04:35.080
<v Speaker 1>But they both did admit to being there and carrying

1:04:35.080 --> 1:04:37.240
<v Speaker 1>out the murders. Like they never tried to say it

1:04:37.280 --> 1:04:41.520
<v Speaker 1>wasn't asked, we weren't there sure. Perry said that he

1:04:41.720 --> 1:04:45.160
<v Speaker 1>like they broke pretty quickly. And Perry said that he

1:04:45.240 --> 1:04:47.360
<v Speaker 1>had killed two of the family members and Dick had

1:04:47.440 --> 1:04:50.400
<v Speaker 1>killed two. Dick said Perry had killed them all and

1:04:50.400 --> 1:04:52.480
<v Speaker 1>that he had planned the whole thing, that Perry had

1:04:52.520 --> 1:04:56.000
<v Speaker 1>planned the whole thing. Now, they wanted to be tried

1:04:56.120 --> 1:04:58.400
<v Speaker 1>separately so they could kind of pin it on each other,

1:04:58.800 --> 1:05:03.160
<v Speaker 1>but that was denied. They were both charged with murders

1:05:03.240 --> 1:05:05.919
<v Speaker 1>no matter who pulled the triggers on the day. Their

1:05:06.040 --> 1:05:09.400
<v Speaker 1>joint trial was scheduled for March twenty two, nineteen sixty,

1:05:09.440 --> 1:05:11.680
<v Speaker 1>which is like so quick, like you think of out

1:05:11.680 --> 1:05:15.320
<v Speaker 1>the court systems ago years, you know, it.

1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:17.120
<v Speaker 2>Was drags and drags and drags.

1:05:17.200 --> 1:05:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is March from like that. It was December

1:05:19.920 --> 1:05:22.560
<v Speaker 1>thirty that they were arrested. Their trial was scheduled for March.

1:05:22.800 --> 1:05:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1:05:25.200 --> 1:05:27.840
<v Speaker 1>They were placed in different cells while they awaited their

1:05:27.880 --> 1:05:36.440
<v Speaker 1>trial so that they couldn't, you know, collude. And the

1:05:36.560 --> 1:05:39.200
<v Speaker 1>unit that Perry was housed in was called the ladies unit.

1:05:39.920 --> 1:05:42.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh and I don't think I think there weren't women

1:05:42.560 --> 1:05:44.120
<v Speaker 1>in the prison, but like it was a part of

1:05:44.160 --> 1:05:45.520
<v Speaker 1>the prison that was four women.

1:05:47.520 --> 1:05:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Really maybe one bit was overcrowded or something.

1:05:52.280 --> 1:05:55.840
<v Speaker 1>And this unit was directly next door, like sharing internal

1:05:55.920 --> 1:06:02.800
<v Speaker 1>walls with the county courthouse, and the sheriff at the

1:06:02.840 --> 1:06:07.400
<v Speaker 1>time had residents at the courthouse, right. It was actually

1:06:07.640 --> 1:06:11.360
<v Speaker 1>the sheriff, Earl Robinson, who he met earlier, had his

1:06:11.400 --> 1:06:13.080
<v Speaker 1>own house in Holcombe, so he's like, I don't need

1:06:13.120 --> 1:06:16.040
<v Speaker 1>that place. So my second in charge, like the under sheriff,

1:06:16.080 --> 1:06:19.000
<v Speaker 1>the deputy sheriff, and his wife lived there. His name

1:06:19.040 --> 1:06:22.440
<v Speaker 1>was Wendell, his wife's name was Josephine. They lived there,

1:06:22.440 --> 1:06:24.280
<v Speaker 1>and so they were literally sharing a wall with this

1:06:24.360 --> 1:06:27.160
<v Speaker 1>unit that Perry Smith was in. She would go and

1:06:27.320 --> 1:06:30.680
<v Speaker 1>kind of visit the prisoners off and Josephine would, and

1:06:30.720 --> 1:06:34.720
<v Speaker 1>she took a real liking to Perry Smith. She felt

1:06:34.720 --> 1:06:37.240
<v Speaker 1>sorry for him and thought that he was a really

1:06:37.320 --> 1:06:40.680
<v Speaker 1>kind man at heart who'd been caught up in a

1:06:40.720 --> 1:06:41.840
<v Speaker 1>mess and a life of crime.

1:06:42.240 --> 1:06:45.880
<v Speaker 2>Behavior you know, on the night was very strange, isn't it.

1:06:46.320 --> 1:06:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Very caring and compassionately.

1:06:48.320 --> 1:06:52.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. She would regularly make him lunch and take it

1:06:52.720 --> 1:06:55.560
<v Speaker 1>and eat turkey sandwiches with the crusts cut off with

1:06:55.720 --> 1:06:59.640
<v Speaker 1>him in his cell. He wrote about this a lot

1:06:59.640 --> 1:07:03.280
<v Speaker 1>in his diaries and about his the kindness she showed,

1:07:03.360 --> 1:07:06.840
<v Speaker 1>and it was kind of almost has been speculated a

1:07:06.840 --> 1:07:08.360
<v Speaker 1>bit whether there was a bit of a relationship or

1:07:08.360 --> 1:07:10.400
<v Speaker 1>something going on, or maybe kind of Perry felt love

1:07:10.520 --> 1:07:14.520
<v Speaker 1>for her. Now someone else who came and visited him

1:07:14.520 --> 1:07:17.560
<v Speaker 1>in prison was Truman Copodi. We're going to talk about

1:07:17.600 --> 1:07:21.320
<v Speaker 1>that a bit after we've gone through the shaircase. But

1:07:21.360 --> 1:07:24.200
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, an old army friend of Perry's

1:07:24.240 --> 1:07:28.040
<v Speaker 1>also visited him, and he said that Perry spoke about

1:07:28.040 --> 1:07:30.720
<v Speaker 1>the entire crime and the murders in gruesome detail.

1:07:30.960 --> 1:07:31.240
<v Speaker 7>Wow.

1:07:31.600 --> 1:07:34.160
<v Speaker 1>He said things like, quote, I saw the man's head

1:07:34.240 --> 1:07:38.280
<v Speaker 1>split apart when I pulled the trigger. So this old

1:07:38.360 --> 1:07:40.560
<v Speaker 1>army friend said, Perry did not seem like he had

1:07:40.600 --> 1:07:43.480
<v Speaker 1>any remorse. He didn't seem like he'd been caught up

1:07:43.480 --> 1:07:45.840
<v Speaker 1>in this and taken for granted as I had taken

1:07:45.840 --> 1:07:49.720
<v Speaker 1>advantage of it. Was like this army friend was like, no,

1:07:49.760 --> 1:07:50.120
<v Speaker 1>he's a.

1:07:50.120 --> 1:07:52.240
<v Speaker 2>Cold blood killer, accounts Perry.

1:07:52.360 --> 1:07:55.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes, his sister also wrote him a scathing letter which

1:07:55.880 --> 1:07:59.240
<v Speaker 1>features in cold blood, saying that she hated him and

1:07:59.280 --> 1:08:01.600
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't forgive him. So they were kind of very mixed

1:08:01.640 --> 1:08:04.480
<v Speaker 1>reviews about this guy. Perry Smith, and the reason I

1:08:04.520 --> 1:08:09.120
<v Speaker 1>brought up fromim Copoi there is he is very sympathetic

1:08:09.160 --> 1:08:11.440
<v Speaker 1>towards Perry and we'll talk about that more later. So

1:08:11.520 --> 1:08:15.280
<v Speaker 1>real conflicting reviews for him. Dick, on the other hand,

1:08:15.680 --> 1:08:18.160
<v Speaker 1>his family were the only ones that were on his side.

1:08:18.439 --> 1:08:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Everyone spoke about him as a callous, cold blooded, horrible guy.

1:08:22.360 --> 1:08:26.040
<v Speaker 1>His family stood by him through everything. They said they

1:08:26.040 --> 1:08:28.640
<v Speaker 1>were at court every single day for the trial. His

1:08:28.720 --> 1:08:31.439
<v Speaker 1>parents really elderly at that time and really unwell, but

1:08:31.439 --> 1:08:33.400
<v Speaker 1>they went to court every day. They spoke to the

1:08:33.439 --> 1:08:35.080
<v Speaker 1>media they said, our son has told us that he

1:08:35.120 --> 1:08:37.240
<v Speaker 1>didn't do this. We believe him the whole way through.

1:08:37.400 --> 1:08:39.120
<v Speaker 2>You hear that a lot like there's been some cases

1:08:39.120 --> 1:08:41.920
<v Speaker 2>in Australia recently as well where terrible, terrible things have

1:08:41.920 --> 1:08:44.840
<v Speaker 2>happened and the parents have you know, stuck by them.

1:08:45.040 --> 1:08:47.400
<v Speaker 1>And spoken to the media outside. Yeah, said no, he's

1:08:47.439 --> 1:08:49.679
<v Speaker 1>told us his innocence, so we believe him.

1:08:49.760 --> 1:08:50.040
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.

1:08:50.120 --> 1:08:52.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you go, which you'd want your parents to do

1:08:52.520 --> 1:08:55.160
<v Speaker 2>for of course, And your parents aren't going to believe

1:08:55.200 --> 1:08:57.519
<v Speaker 2>what sort of person you are a lot of the time,

1:08:57.600 --> 1:08:59.439
<v Speaker 2>like you know, they want to believe the best in you.

1:08:59.680 --> 1:09:02.000
<v Speaker 2>So a lot of the time, they'll deny all of

1:09:02.040 --> 1:09:04.519
<v Speaker 2>that sort of stuff until you die. Thank you for

1:09:04.520 --> 1:09:07.360
<v Speaker 2>saying that, and also that yeah, this in this case,

1:09:07.400 --> 1:09:09.439
<v Speaker 2>it's like, well, yeah, of course his parents are going

1:09:09.520 --> 1:09:11.760
<v Speaker 2>to go with him and say if they'd want to know. Yeah,

1:09:11.760 --> 1:09:14.639
<v Speaker 2>it's like what we're talking about, you know, the episode

1:09:14.680 --> 1:09:17.719
<v Speaker 2>with Joe Chinquei as well, like ours a new singing

1:09:17.760 --> 1:09:20.559
<v Speaker 2>the Killer. Her parents were there all the time, Yeah,

1:09:20.680 --> 1:09:23.599
<v Speaker 2>supporting their kid because they had a reason to believe

1:09:23.640 --> 1:09:25.280
<v Speaker 2>that she was mentally insane when this happened.

1:09:25.360 --> 1:09:30.360
<v Speaker 1>Like yeah, Now, when it came to the trial, both

1:09:30.439 --> 1:09:33.679
<v Speaker 1>Perry and Dick tried to get an insanity defense, which

1:09:33.680 --> 1:09:35.240
<v Speaker 1>is what it was called. Then that's not using the

1:09:35.240 --> 1:09:39.439
<v Speaker 1>word insanity. They were both tested and it was found

1:09:39.479 --> 1:09:42.639
<v Speaker 1>that they were both sane of mind at the time

1:09:42.680 --> 1:09:45.880
<v Speaker 1>of killings. So the trial went ahead as normal, and

1:09:45.960 --> 1:09:49.240
<v Speaker 1>it was fairly normal and fairly uneventful. There was a

1:09:49.280 --> 1:09:52.240
<v Speaker 1>lot of evidence. They both admitted that they were there

1:09:52.640 --> 1:09:54.519
<v Speaker 1>and that they had done it. Kind of they as

1:09:54.560 --> 1:09:58.599
<v Speaker 1>a whole, yes, not agreeing on who killed who exactly. Yes,

1:09:58.880 --> 1:10:02.679
<v Speaker 1>now did in particular tried like every kind of hail

1:10:02.760 --> 1:10:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Mary right up to the end the death penalty was

1:10:04.920 --> 1:10:07.680
<v Speaker 1>on the cards here, and he was really trying to

1:10:07.680 --> 1:10:10.479
<v Speaker 1>do everything not to get that sure. He was yet

1:10:10.520 --> 1:10:14.160
<v Speaker 1>pitting at ull on Perry. He also then tried to

1:10:14.240 --> 1:10:17.680
<v Speaker 1>say that he so the confession that he'd made on

1:10:17.720 --> 1:10:19.400
<v Speaker 1>his arrest, like when he was saying, yes, I was

1:10:19.400 --> 1:10:21.400
<v Speaker 1>there and we did it, he was saying that that

1:10:21.560 --> 1:10:25.559
<v Speaker 1>was forceful, that that he'd been beaten by police officers.

1:10:25.760 --> 1:10:29.320
<v Speaker 1>But in the days of interviews and everything afterwards, there

1:10:29.360 --> 1:10:32.080
<v Speaker 1>was never any sign of like there was no bruising,

1:10:32.080 --> 1:10:34.000
<v Speaker 1>there were no injuries or anything, so it kind of

1:10:34.120 --> 1:10:35.680
<v Speaker 1>was seen as a bit of it like he's just

1:10:35.760 --> 1:10:42.400
<v Speaker 1>hoping for the best. At the end, Floyd Wells gave

1:10:42.439 --> 1:10:46.479
<v Speaker 1>evidence and ended up admitting to knowing a lot more.

1:10:47.160 --> 1:10:51.439
<v Speaker 2>What was his evidence at the start that he.

1:10:50.280 --> 1:10:52.880
<v Speaker 1>He had told them that a family I used to

1:10:52.920 --> 1:10:55.120
<v Speaker 1>work for that lived at this farm with this name,

1:10:55.600 --> 1:10:58.519
<v Speaker 1>had a cash with ten thousand dollars a safe with

1:10:58.560 --> 1:11:01.439
<v Speaker 1>the ten thousand dollars cash. But when he gave trial

1:11:01.640 --> 1:11:05.640
<v Speaker 1>evidence at trial, he admitted he had actually drawn a

1:11:05.680 --> 1:11:10.000
<v Speaker 1>complete diagram of the class of farm for Dick right,

1:11:10.720 --> 1:11:13.559
<v Speaker 1>and said he and Dick had actually spoken about the

1:11:13.560 --> 1:11:15.640
<v Speaker 1>fact that Dick was going to go and steal the

1:11:15.680 --> 1:11:19.000
<v Speaker 1>money and that he would take a cut of it

1:11:19.040 --> 1:11:21.080
<v Speaker 1>when he got out for giving him all this evidence.

1:11:22.000 --> 1:11:24.720
<v Speaker 1>Now Dick said that this was all lies. He said, no,

1:11:25.080 --> 1:11:28.120
<v Speaker 1>that never happened. I never said this again. It seems

1:11:28.160 --> 1:11:30.160
<v Speaker 1>like a bit of a clutching at straws at the

1:11:30.240 --> 1:11:32.639
<v Speaker 1>end to say no, no, no, that's all a lie. Definitely,

1:11:32.680 --> 1:11:36.040
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't that Dick continued to pay to say it

1:11:36.080 --> 1:11:39.240
<v Speaker 1>was Perry who killed all four family members. Perry had

1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:42.080
<v Speaker 1>initially said they did two, they killed two people each,

1:11:43.400 --> 1:11:47.880
<v Speaker 1>and during the trial actually tried to recant that. So

1:11:47.960 --> 1:11:53.200
<v Speaker 1>Perry tried to recant that it was after Dick's parents

1:11:53.320 --> 1:11:57.320
<v Speaker 1>spoke in the media about believing their son and saying

1:11:57.320 --> 1:11:59.360
<v Speaker 1>that they were going to stand by him and believe him.

1:12:00.080 --> 1:12:02.960
<v Speaker 1>That's when Perry then turned around and said, I want

1:12:02.960 --> 1:12:08.519
<v Speaker 1>to change my original testimony that I killed to a

1:12:08.600 --> 1:12:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Dick killed two, Yes, And he ended up saying I

1:12:12.040 --> 1:12:16.160
<v Speaker 1>killed all four of them. So here's another little insight

1:12:16.200 --> 1:12:19.160
<v Speaker 1>into Perry's what I'm going to call compassion for want

1:12:19.160 --> 1:12:22.280
<v Speaker 1>of a better term, this actually is one bit. I

1:12:22.640 --> 1:12:24.800
<v Speaker 1>don't have any sympathy or compassion for Perry. I'm going

1:12:24.800 --> 1:12:26.639
<v Speaker 1>to put that out there. This is the only bit

1:12:26.680 --> 1:12:29.760
<v Speaker 1>that makes me feel a bit sad. Yeah, it's like

1:12:29.920 --> 1:12:33.000
<v Speaker 1>he's gone. This man has a family who loves him.

1:12:32.760 --> 1:12:36.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm you know, feel so I don't have that. If

1:12:36.080 --> 1:12:37.920
<v Speaker 1>he's got a family that loves him, I don't want

1:12:37.920 --> 1:12:40.599
<v Speaker 1>his parents to think he's done this. I'll take the blame.

1:12:41.600 --> 1:12:43.920
<v Speaker 1>That actually does make me feel a bit sad. You know,

1:12:44.000 --> 1:12:46.720
<v Speaker 1>he's had such a horrible upbringing. There's something in him

1:12:46.720 --> 1:12:48.799
<v Speaker 1>that goes off. This man's got a family who believes

1:12:48.800 --> 1:12:51.799
<v Speaker 1>in him. I want to give his family that.

1:12:50.720 --> 1:12:52.160
<v Speaker 2>That's a bit.

1:12:54.240 --> 1:12:57.000
<v Speaker 1>However, the judge said, no, you can't recount that. You've

1:12:57.000 --> 1:12:59.840
<v Speaker 1>given that evidence. Then you've given that testimony. So no,

1:13:01.160 --> 1:13:04.280
<v Speaker 1>and it would have mattered in the end anyway. Both

1:13:04.400 --> 1:13:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Perry Smith and Richard were found guilty and ordered to

1:13:09.720 --> 1:13:14.160
<v Speaker 1>death by hanging on April fourteen, nineteen sixty five, So

1:13:14.240 --> 1:13:16.599
<v Speaker 1>that's when the date of the hanging would be. So

1:13:16.640 --> 1:13:18.680
<v Speaker 1>they would spend five years on death row.

1:13:21.800 --> 1:13:23.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why they do that. I don't know

1:13:23.160 --> 1:13:25.200
<v Speaker 2>why they no.

1:13:25.320 --> 1:13:27.360
<v Speaker 1>I remember we had someone write in about it. They're

1:13:27.360 --> 1:13:30.080
<v Speaker 1>saying there's lots for the Avenues of Appeal to take

1:13:30.120 --> 1:13:33.479
<v Speaker 1>time in case anything, are there any other evidence comes up.

1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:37.160
<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of places that fight against the death penalty,

1:13:37.439 --> 1:13:40.759
<v Speaker 1>so there's lots of reasons that it takes a long time.

1:13:41.080 --> 1:13:50.240
<v Speaker 1>Apparently at their executions, Perry Smith used his final words

1:13:50.240 --> 1:13:54.840
<v Speaker 1>to condemn capital punishment. His final words were, I think

1:13:54.880 --> 1:13:56.679
<v Speaker 1>it is a hell of a thing that a life

1:13:56.720 --> 1:13:59.800
<v Speaker 1>has to be taken in this manner. I say this

1:13:59.840 --> 1:14:02.040
<v Speaker 1>is especially because there's a great deal I could have

1:14:02.120 --> 1:14:06.479
<v Speaker 1>offered society. I certainly think capital punishment is legally and

1:14:06.520 --> 1:14:07.280
<v Speaker 1>morally wrong.

1:14:08.040 --> 1:14:10.759
<v Speaker 2>That's a wild thing to say after you've murdered.

1:14:10.560 --> 1:14:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Four people, including two children. Yeah, Richard Hickock said it's

1:14:16.760 --> 1:14:20.120
<v Speaker 1>his final words. I don't have any hard feelings. You're

1:14:20.120 --> 1:14:21.400
<v Speaker 1>sending me to a better place.

1:14:22.160 --> 1:14:25.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh well yeah.

1:14:25.640 --> 1:14:29.160
<v Speaker 1>The last sentence of Truman Capote's in Cold Blood, I

1:14:29.200 --> 1:14:35.120
<v Speaker 1>think puts the deaths of Perry and Dick By hanging

1:14:35.360 --> 1:14:39.040
<v Speaker 1>really well. The final sentence of the book says, at

1:14:39.080 --> 1:14:42.280
<v Speaker 1>the time, not a soul in sleeping Holcombe heard them

1:14:42.800 --> 1:14:47.880
<v Speaker 1>four gun shot blasts that all told ended six human lives.

1:14:48.240 --> 1:14:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it's beautifully worded him.

1:14:52.040 --> 1:14:57.720
<v Speaker 1>He's just the most beautiful writer. So that's you just

1:14:57.880 --> 1:15:00.160
<v Speaker 1>desperately hope Helen gon is going to listen to this

1:15:00.200 --> 1:15:02.720
<v Speaker 1>one day, realize you love her.

1:15:02.800 --> 1:15:03.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't care if she does.

1:15:03.560 --> 1:15:06.320
<v Speaker 1>You're looking right into the carry, you creep. You're going

1:15:06.360 --> 1:15:09.280
<v Speaker 1>to hope she hears it, realize you love her and

1:15:09.560 --> 1:15:11.040
<v Speaker 1>leaves her husband and her family.

1:15:12.800 --> 1:15:14.760
<v Speaker 2>How do you know that because I looked at Helen Ghana.

1:15:15.080 --> 1:15:22.679
<v Speaker 1>Stop dead panning the camera. You can't marry Helen Ghana.

1:15:23.920 --> 1:15:26.160
<v Speaker 1>I think she's above your age bracket.

1:15:27.000 --> 1:15:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Sure, let's talk about age then, Okay, I brought it up.

1:15:30.640 --> 1:15:31.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't have anything more to say on the middle.

1:15:33.360 --> 1:15:36.599
<v Speaker 2>I think I think that the the the way that

1:15:36.600 --> 1:15:40.520
<v Speaker 2>Truman Capoti sums that up is it's such a beautifully

1:15:40.560 --> 1:15:45.000
<v Speaker 2>put ending for the tragic loss of four lives. You know,

1:15:45.080 --> 1:15:47.600
<v Speaker 2>you could say the tragic loss of six, but the

1:15:47.600 --> 1:15:51.880
<v Speaker 2>tragic loss of four lives, Yes, and is beautifully beautifully

1:15:51.880 --> 1:15:52.960
<v Speaker 2>worded in that way.

1:15:53.080 --> 1:15:56.679
<v Speaker 1>This brings us into a bit of discussion around Truman

1:15:56.720 --> 1:16:01.640
<v Speaker 1>Capodi and his involvement ye story. Again, we won't go

1:16:01.680 --> 1:16:04.439
<v Speaker 1>into it too much because while we are up and

1:16:04.439 --> 1:16:08.880
<v Speaker 1>coming book talk stars, this is a true crime podcast,

1:16:09.040 --> 1:16:11.559
<v Speaker 1>not a book talk podcast. That one's coming later.

1:16:11.760 --> 1:16:13.799
<v Speaker 2>Yes, of course, it is you better get a bucket

1:16:13.800 --> 1:16:14.400
<v Speaker 2>and a mob.

1:16:14.840 --> 1:16:20.920
<v Speaker 1>Stop saying that. Don't say that. So, as I said

1:16:21.000 --> 1:16:24.200
<v Speaker 1>right back in the intro, Truman Compote decided he wanted

1:16:24.240 --> 1:16:29.120
<v Speaker 1>to write a non fiction novel and he went to Kansas.

1:16:29.920 --> 1:16:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah four Perry and Dick were court so when it

1:16:34.040 --> 1:16:36.599
<v Speaker 1>was still an active, you know, murder case.

1:16:36.720 --> 1:16:38.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he was quite early, yes.

1:16:38.800 --> 1:16:41.040
<v Speaker 1>And then he ended up staying there for It took

1:16:41.080 --> 1:16:43.880
<v Speaker 1>him six years to write the book because there was

1:16:43.920 --> 1:16:46.519
<v Speaker 1>the year leading up to it, the trial, everything, and

1:16:46.560 --> 1:16:49.200
<v Speaker 1>then five years on death row. And he was adamant.

1:16:49.200 --> 1:16:51.200
<v Speaker 1>He wasn't going to finish the book until the story

1:16:51.320 --> 1:16:54.360
<v Speaker 1>was finished, and that to him was the end of

1:16:54.439 --> 1:16:59.559
<v Speaker 1>the lives of Dick and Perry. Now, he obviously spent

1:16:59.600 --> 1:17:02.600
<v Speaker 1>a lot of time in the community. There is a

1:17:02.640 --> 1:17:05.000
<v Speaker 1>lot in the book that speaks about the community. He

1:17:05.080 --> 1:17:07.720
<v Speaker 1>interviews lots of different people who live there. And when

1:17:07.720 --> 1:17:09.920
<v Speaker 1>I say he interviews, like, it doesn't read like an

1:17:10.000 --> 1:17:13.519
<v Speaker 1>interview with He writes it, you know, beautiful, beautiful prose

1:17:13.680 --> 1:17:17.000
<v Speaker 1>about you know, the conversations he had with people. But

1:17:17.040 --> 1:17:18.800
<v Speaker 1>it's not like she said this and I said this.

1:17:19.000 --> 1:17:21.840
<v Speaker 1>He says, like the way it's written is, you know,

1:17:22.000 --> 1:17:25.559
<v Speaker 1>talking about that Susan Well, I think his sur name

1:17:25.600 --> 1:17:28.240
<v Speaker 1>was the friend. He'll tell her story, but we know

1:17:28.320 --> 1:17:31.640
<v Speaker 1>it's through the words of him having interviewed her. Interestingly,

1:17:31.720 --> 1:17:33.320
<v Speaker 1>the book is written in a way that it does

1:17:33.400 --> 1:17:36.400
<v Speaker 1>just read like a novel. You're not. He never says

1:17:36.479 --> 1:17:39.400
<v Speaker 1>like I was there and I did this. We know

1:17:39.600 --> 1:17:42.160
<v Speaker 1>because Truman Capoti wrote it that it's from his interviews

1:17:42.160 --> 1:17:45.160
<v Speaker 1>that everything's taken. But it's not. It's not in third

1:17:45.160 --> 1:17:49.160
<v Speaker 1>person or anything. You know, it's like, no, So he's

1:17:49.200 --> 1:17:51.439
<v Speaker 1>gone through all of Perry's diaries, he's seen all the

1:17:51.520 --> 1:17:53.799
<v Speaker 1>letters that they've each got in and out of prison.

1:17:54.560 --> 1:17:59.160
<v Speaker 1>He himself became very close with Perry Smith. Now this

1:17:59.280 --> 1:18:04.120
<v Speaker 1>is something that is more known from Truman Capote rather

1:18:04.280 --> 1:18:06.240
<v Speaker 1>than is spoken about in the book.

1:18:06.560 --> 1:18:08.280
<v Speaker 2>It was a bit of speculation, and I think you

1:18:08.360 --> 1:18:10.600
<v Speaker 2>can subtly read into.

1:18:10.600 --> 1:18:15.200
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I believe, not subtly yeah, okay, I think. And

1:18:15.240 --> 1:18:18.280
<v Speaker 1>it's even interesting in researching the story, like you know,

1:18:18.400 --> 1:18:21.080
<v Speaker 1>kind of reading different articles and listening to different podcasts

1:18:21.120 --> 1:18:25.759
<v Speaker 1>and stuff about this. I have I've written my script

1:18:25.840 --> 1:18:29.240
<v Speaker 1>today that in a way that I believe is more

1:18:29.400 --> 1:18:32.120
<v Speaker 1>these are the facts of what it happened. Absolutely, Whereas

1:18:32.160 --> 1:18:34.479
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the way that it's spoken about is

1:18:34.560 --> 1:18:38.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, and Perry was really, you know, pulled along

1:18:38.720 --> 1:18:41.040
<v Speaker 1>by Dick and he didn't want to be there, but

1:18:41.160 --> 1:18:45.559
<v Speaker 1>he was impressionable and young. I believe personally that that

1:18:45.680 --> 1:18:49.880
<v Speaker 1>comes from Truman Capote's writing of Perry. Yes, because Truman

1:18:49.960 --> 1:18:54.320
<v Speaker 1>Capote was sympathetic and empathetic towards Perry. Yes, I am

1:18:54.360 --> 1:18:56.000
<v Speaker 1>not he murdered for innocent people.

1:18:56.160 --> 1:18:56.240
<v Speaker 6>Ye.

1:18:57.960 --> 1:19:02.479
<v Speaker 1>Again, Truman Capoti doesn't write in the book that he

1:19:02.600 --> 1:19:05.360
<v Speaker 1>is sympathetic and empathetic towards him. He doesn't, but the

1:19:05.400 --> 1:19:07.960
<v Speaker 1>way he writes about Perry compared to how he writes

1:19:07.960 --> 1:19:11.439
<v Speaker 1>about Dick is very obvious biased in my in my opinion,

1:19:12.000 --> 1:19:17.519
<v Speaker 1>I yes again for the kids, beautiful pronunciation of h

1:19:17.600 --> 1:19:19.320
<v Speaker 1>By the way, I'm really proud of you. I'm really

1:19:19.320 --> 1:19:23.200
<v Speaker 1>proud of you. There's quite a lot of speculation that

1:19:23.800 --> 1:19:26.280
<v Speaker 1>Treman Compodi was actually in love with Perry s. Yeah,

1:19:26.320 --> 1:19:27.640
<v Speaker 1>it's quite a lot spoken.

1:19:27.400 --> 1:19:28.320
<v Speaker 2>About the film.

1:19:29.360 --> 1:19:33.599
<v Speaker 1>U that's quite a part of it, and I think

1:19:33.800 --> 1:19:35.920
<v Speaker 1>as a reader, just my opinion of that is that

1:19:35.920 --> 1:19:38.800
<v Speaker 1>that comes through quite strongly. I think he's very sympathetic

1:19:38.800 --> 1:19:42.640
<v Speaker 1>towards him and you know personally, but I mean we

1:19:42.680 --> 1:19:44.479
<v Speaker 1>speak about this on the podcast a lot as well.

1:19:44.800 --> 1:19:48.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm less I find less sympathy in talking about killers

1:19:48.960 --> 1:19:52.960
<v Speaker 1>and stuff than often you do. And I think that's

1:19:53.000 --> 1:19:57.560
<v Speaker 1>again interestingly, you're reading Helen Garner's books like you understood

1:19:57.600 --> 1:20:00.280
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of the sympathy towards Robert Farquerson. Stopped

1:20:00.280 --> 1:20:02.400
<v Speaker 1>looking at the camera every time I talk about Helen Gara,

1:20:03.200 --> 1:20:07.320
<v Speaker 1>You've mean really weird Helen garns. No, I'm not going

1:20:07.360 --> 1:20:14.840
<v Speaker 1>to finish that sentence. Yeah, you, after reading Helen's book

1:20:15.439 --> 1:20:19.960
<v Speaker 1>This House of Grief, You've found yourself kind of going, oh,

1:20:20.120 --> 1:20:23.880
<v Speaker 1>I can understand someone having a little bit more empathy

1:20:24.760 --> 1:20:27.960
<v Speaker 1>towards Robert Farquerson, Yes than I understood before.

1:20:28.280 --> 1:20:28.639
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

1:20:28.960 --> 1:20:31.519
<v Speaker 1>However, me reading in Cold Blood has not made me

1:20:31.560 --> 1:20:34.559
<v Speaker 1>feel more empathy towards Perry Smith. I think probably while

1:20:34.600 --> 1:20:36.519
<v Speaker 1>reading it I did, But then I've taken myself out

1:20:36.520 --> 1:20:39.640
<v Speaker 1>and I've gone, no, this is a biased account of

1:20:39.680 --> 1:20:45.120
<v Speaker 1>what happened from having spent it well, of course, yeah, exactly. Yeah,

1:20:45.160 --> 1:20:47.400
<v Speaker 1>Triman compared had spent a lot of time with Perry Smith,

1:20:47.520 --> 1:20:50.240
<v Speaker 1>a lot, like literally in his prison cell for years,

1:20:50.479 --> 1:20:52.760
<v Speaker 1>and not just up until the trial, but for the

1:20:52.760 --> 1:20:54.880
<v Speaker 1>five years on death row afterwards, it became very close

1:20:54.920 --> 1:20:56.559
<v Speaker 1>and he knew him very well, and I think he

1:20:56.600 --> 1:20:59.519
<v Speaker 1>writes about him really quite biased.

1:20:59.640 --> 1:20:59.720
<v Speaker 7>Ye.

1:21:00.840 --> 1:21:02.040
<v Speaker 1>Now, I said I was going to bring up the

1:21:02.080 --> 1:21:06.280
<v Speaker 1>sisters as well, that Avianna and Beverly. They are not

1:21:06.400 --> 1:21:08.960
<v Speaker 1>mentioned in the book. They're obviously Trim Commode is obviously

1:21:09.000 --> 1:21:12.040
<v Speaker 1>not interviewed. That they didn't want to be part of it,

1:21:12.080 --> 1:21:14.160
<v Speaker 1>And there is really an ethical and kind of moral

1:21:14.560 --> 1:21:17.400
<v Speaker 1>thing there about you know, this is their family story,

1:21:17.760 --> 1:21:21.120
<v Speaker 1>and Trim Commodis very much made it his. Yes, However,

1:21:21.320 --> 1:21:22.960
<v Speaker 1>you look at the other side of that and go, well,

1:21:23.000 --> 1:21:25.559
<v Speaker 1>the reason we're still talking about it in twenty twenty six,

1:21:25.880 --> 1:21:27.320
<v Speaker 1>which some people can say is a good thing and

1:21:27.400 --> 1:21:30.840
<v Speaker 1>others not. But I think we're, you know, remembering the

1:21:30.920 --> 1:21:34.080
<v Speaker 1>lives of these four innocent people, that's because Triumn Compodi

1:21:34.080 --> 1:21:36.040
<v Speaker 1>wrote about it. I'm sure we probably wouldn't know about

1:21:36.040 --> 1:21:38.439
<v Speaker 1>it otherwise, right, Sure, just one of those small town

1:21:38.920 --> 1:21:41.280
<v Speaker 1>murders that kind of guys. Maybe we would have done

1:21:41.360 --> 1:21:43.240
<v Speaker 1>six years down the road in this podcast when we're

1:21:43.240 --> 1:21:47.320
<v Speaker 1>looking for more stories and those kind of things. But yeah,

1:21:47.360 --> 1:21:50.040
<v Speaker 1>I Evianna and Beverley didn't want to be part of

1:21:50.040 --> 1:21:53.240
<v Speaker 1>Trim Compode's story, and I think that's quite unfair on

1:21:53.280 --> 1:21:55.639
<v Speaker 1>them that their family story has been told so publicly

1:21:55.680 --> 1:21:59.120
<v Speaker 1>and so wildly widely. There was a lot of backlash

1:21:59.160 --> 1:22:05.200
<v Speaker 1>against the book the Garden City community because Trumancobody had

1:22:05.200 --> 1:22:08.400
<v Speaker 1>come in as like he stood out like a soulfa.

1:22:08.520 --> 1:22:12.080
<v Speaker 1>Of course, he is high society in New York. He's

1:22:12.080 --> 1:22:15.400
<v Speaker 1>got that odd voice and openly gay man in the

1:22:15.439 --> 1:22:19.280
<v Speaker 1>fifties and Kansas was not like that. No, Holcome was

1:22:19.320 --> 1:22:23.240
<v Speaker 1>not like that. He spoke to everyone in the community.

1:22:23.280 --> 1:22:27.280
<v Speaker 1>People gave him time and everything, and he assured them

1:22:27.320 --> 1:22:29.280
<v Speaker 1>that it was going to be a factual telling of

1:22:29.320 --> 1:22:31.880
<v Speaker 1>what happened, and a lot of people said that it

1:22:31.920 --> 1:22:34.680
<v Speaker 1>didn't really come across like that no to them. So

1:22:34.720 --> 1:22:36.559
<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of backlash that was it's really

1:22:37.200 --> 1:22:38.559
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people hate the book, a lot of

1:22:38.720 --> 1:22:41.360
<v Speaker 1>like especially at the time, a lot of people loved it,

1:22:41.840 --> 1:22:45.360
<v Speaker 1>certainly critically acclaimed. You know, to this day, I'm here

1:22:45.360 --> 1:22:47.240
<v Speaker 1>saying it's one of my favorite books. John Ronson's that

1:22:47.280 --> 1:22:47.680
<v Speaker 1>it was one of.

1:22:47.720 --> 1:22:48.800
<v Speaker 2>His favorite books, you know.

1:22:50.080 --> 1:22:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So that's my NonStop rant for you anything.

1:22:54.160 --> 1:22:56.559
<v Speaker 2>I think it is an amazing book as it is.

1:22:56.720 --> 1:22:59.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean, any book that you read, like whether it's

1:22:59.160 --> 1:23:02.160
<v Speaker 2>a John Romp and whether it's a John Saffrain or

1:23:02.160 --> 1:23:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Helen Ghana, whatever it is, they're going to put.

1:23:06.040 --> 1:23:06.080
<v Speaker 7>That.

1:23:06.560 --> 1:23:09.040
<v Speaker 1>He does the documentaries, but it's the same thing, kind

1:23:09.080 --> 1:23:11.160
<v Speaker 1>of like taking putting himself in the stry.

1:23:11.080 --> 1:23:12.519
<v Speaker 2>The way through if you're going to go from like

1:23:12.560 --> 1:23:16.759
<v Speaker 2>you know, a documentary maker. But as writers of true crime,

1:23:17.360 --> 1:23:20.839
<v Speaker 2>they always put themselves in the story and it's their connection,

1:23:20.880 --> 1:23:23.080
<v Speaker 2>it's their human story telling.

1:23:22.840 --> 1:23:25.880
<v Speaker 1>In cor blood doesn't really not in the same way

1:23:25.960 --> 1:23:32.040
<v Speaker 1>that John Ronson and Helen Ghana's they'll actually say like, yes, exactly,

1:23:32.080 --> 1:23:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Truman Commodis doesn't do that. It is a telling of

1:23:34.760 --> 1:23:37.880
<v Speaker 1>the story from someone who was there. But we only

1:23:37.960 --> 1:23:39.479
<v Speaker 1>know he's there because we know that.

1:23:40.920 --> 1:23:43.519
<v Speaker 2>The book that he was No, which is you know,

1:23:43.560 --> 1:23:45.639
<v Speaker 2>I haven't seen the way that book was done.

1:23:45.640 --> 1:23:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Again, I can't think of it. No, we should look

1:23:49.400 --> 1:23:51.160
<v Speaker 1>into that for our book talk that we start in

1:23:51.240 --> 1:23:51.920
<v Speaker 1>case we're wrong.

1:23:52.560 --> 1:23:55.800
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I don't think I've read a book that's

1:23:56.080 --> 1:23:56.960
<v Speaker 2>like that again.

1:23:57.240 --> 1:24:00.320
<v Speaker 1>No, Yeah, that it is first person without being first.

1:24:00.560 --> 1:24:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, which is really interesting because I don't know the

1:24:02.880 --> 1:24:06.400
<v Speaker 2>first person that did it in first person sense, like

1:24:06.439 --> 1:24:09.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that. I don't know who would have

1:24:09.840 --> 1:24:10.320
<v Speaker 2>captured that.

1:24:10.360 --> 1:24:12.599
<v Speaker 1>And we could be someone taking the idea from Truman

1:24:12.600 --> 1:24:14.519
<v Speaker 1>Compod and going, oh, but I'll use the word.

1:24:14.360 --> 1:24:19.000
<v Speaker 2>I y yeah, which is fascinating. But I think that

1:24:19.080 --> 1:24:23.360
<v Speaker 2>there are opinions in there. Yeah, that's interesting for someone

1:24:23.360 --> 1:24:28.200
<v Speaker 2>that's not written in first person as I believe this. Yes,

1:24:28.680 --> 1:24:29.759
<v Speaker 2>it's way it is written.

1:24:29.760 --> 1:24:32.200
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes it's written much more like a novel.

1:24:32.640 --> 1:24:35.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, which you know you could go, this is

1:24:35.600 --> 1:24:36.320
<v Speaker 2>a piece of fiction.

1:24:36.880 --> 1:24:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, And I think there would be people have

1:24:38.880 --> 1:24:41.000
<v Speaker 1>picked up and read the book thinking, like not knowing

1:24:41.040 --> 1:24:45.200
<v Speaker 1>that just knowing Trumans in Cold Blood is a famous

1:24:45.200 --> 1:24:47.360
<v Speaker 1>book that I've heard of it, you know, thee Orange

1:24:47.360 --> 1:24:50.519
<v Speaker 1>Penguin classic book. Yes, there would be people who don't

1:24:50.560 --> 1:24:53.040
<v Speaker 1>know that's actually about a true crime that Truman Compodi

1:24:53.320 --> 1:24:55.840
<v Speaker 1>himself went and like investigate.

1:24:57.439 --> 1:25:00.839
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm going to do James fra a Million

1:25:01.200 --> 1:25:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Little Pieces soon, because that is another book that you

1:25:05.680 --> 1:25:09.679
<v Speaker 2>know was you can go is it a great piece

1:25:09.720 --> 1:25:13.080
<v Speaker 2>of nonfiction or is a great piece of fiction? And

1:25:13.120 --> 1:25:15.519
<v Speaker 2>I think when you look at two things, sometimes you

1:25:15.520 --> 1:25:19.559
<v Speaker 2>get excited when it's when it's true true. Yea more excited.

1:25:19.680 --> 1:25:22.479
<v Speaker 1>You're funny with movies and stuff like, you'll enjoy a

1:25:22.520 --> 1:25:24.920
<v Speaker 1>movie more if you think if they say it's based

1:25:24.960 --> 1:25:27.200
<v Speaker 1>on true, not more than another movie, but more than

1:25:27.240 --> 1:25:29.320
<v Speaker 1>you otherwise would have it. It's like if you.

1:25:29.240 --> 1:25:31.200
<v Speaker 2>See like a drama film and it happens to be funny,

1:25:31.240 --> 1:25:33.479
<v Speaker 2>you go, how amazing it was funny as well you

1:25:33.479 --> 1:25:34.360
<v Speaker 2>see a comedy film.

1:25:34.600 --> 1:25:39.040
<v Speaker 1>Two different genres to get really it was really that funny.

1:25:39.200 --> 1:25:40.880
<v Speaker 2>I think it's the expectation of what it is. And

1:25:40.880 --> 1:25:44.160
<v Speaker 2>when you when you look at something like this Truman Capodi,

1:25:44.240 --> 1:25:47.519
<v Speaker 2>you go, oh my god, what an amazing writer. I

1:25:47.560 --> 1:25:50.200
<v Speaker 2>think I would have enjoyed it as a book just

1:25:50.240 --> 1:25:53.679
<v Speaker 2>as much if I didn't know that it was a true.

1:25:53.880 --> 1:25:56.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Whereas I don't know. I can't answer that because

1:25:56.200 --> 1:25:58.920
<v Speaker 1>I know that I read it knowing. I even knew.

1:25:59.200 --> 1:26:02.040
<v Speaker 1>I knew about the fact that people thought were not

1:26:02.080 --> 1:26:05.040
<v Speaker 1>the fact of the speculation that he was in love

1:26:05.120 --> 1:26:08.840
<v Speaker 1>with Perry Smith. I knew all of that going into

1:26:09.080 --> 1:26:11.000
<v Speaker 1>That's why I read it. I knew about that, Yeah,

1:26:11.040 --> 1:26:13.000
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know how I would have found it otherwise.

1:26:13.040 --> 1:26:15.200
<v Speaker 1>But I just I love like his writing so beautiful.

1:26:15.320 --> 1:26:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, no, it is. It's fascinating just to think

1:26:18.439 --> 1:26:21.160
<v Speaker 2>of would it be as well known if it wasn't

1:26:21.200 --> 1:26:25.960
<v Speaker 2>for no, I don't think no. But then also the

1:26:26.040 --> 1:26:28.880
<v Speaker 2>horror of you know, the surviving members of that family

1:26:28.920 --> 1:26:30.280
<v Speaker 2>that had to live through that and be like, oh

1:26:30.280 --> 1:26:32.639
<v Speaker 2>my god, cold blood, like they would bring that up

1:26:32.760 --> 1:26:34.800
<v Speaker 2>as a point of reference for the murder that took

1:26:34.800 --> 1:26:35.759
<v Speaker 2>place of their families.

1:26:35.880 --> 1:26:37.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what is that eighty years ago?

1:26:38.080 --> 1:26:42.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Maths, maths, And it's still like a really well

1:26:42.520 --> 1:26:44.040
<v Speaker 2>known story today.

1:26:44.280 --> 1:26:46.479
<v Speaker 1>Well there you go. Now you know it even better.

1:26:46.280 --> 1:26:46.880
<v Speaker 7>Than you may have.

1:26:47.240 --> 1:26:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, I didn't know several facts from that after

1:26:49.840 --> 1:26:52.559
<v Speaker 2>reading the book. So it's like it's interesting. I think

1:26:52.600 --> 1:26:57.360
<v Speaker 2>for me, hearing the story as a standalone's interesting because

1:26:57.439 --> 1:26:59.120
<v Speaker 2>the facts they are, you think.

1:26:59.000 --> 1:27:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think all thets that I've said in this

1:27:01.439 --> 1:27:04.320
<v Speaker 1>are in the book, but they they're spread out, yes,

1:27:04.439 --> 1:27:07.760
<v Speaker 1>and they're mixed up and diluted with so many other

1:27:07.800 --> 1:27:10.320
<v Speaker 1>stories and things as well. That's just hearing it as

1:27:10.360 --> 1:27:12.439
<v Speaker 1>it like this is the true crime story, and of.

1:27:12.320 --> 1:27:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Course you know, you also have hearsay and you have

1:27:14.360 --> 1:27:16.679
<v Speaker 2>people commenting on it, and you have you know, three

1:27:16.680 --> 1:27:18.680
<v Speaker 2>different means. So that's a really interesting part of it

1:27:18.720 --> 1:27:21.080
<v Speaker 2>as well, where I think when you just look at

1:27:21.360 --> 1:27:25.679
<v Speaker 2>a murder as it is a callous, awful, inhuman thing,

1:27:26.160 --> 1:27:27.640
<v Speaker 2>you go, oh no, this is a this was a

1:27:27.720 --> 1:27:29.160
<v Speaker 2>murder of a family. Yep.

1:27:29.360 --> 1:27:32.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Let's not spend five years in a cell with

1:27:32.560 --> 1:27:35.320
<v Speaker 1>turkey sandwiches with the crust cut off with one of

1:27:35.360 --> 1:27:37.200
<v Speaker 1>the murderers and start to feel sorry for him. Let's

1:27:37.200 --> 1:27:38.120
<v Speaker 1>talk about the murder.

1:27:38.400 --> 1:27:42.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, which is absolutely fascinating. So do you love?

1:27:42.640 --> 1:27:44.479
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for telling me that the air.

1:27:44.280 --> 1:27:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Condition has been on this whole time and I feel

1:27:46.400 --> 1:27:52.360
<v Speaker 1>like my blood is a bit cold. What in cold blood?

1:27:52.840 --> 1:27:53.000
<v Speaker 10>Oh?

1:27:53.040 --> 1:27:54.800
<v Speaker 2>I thought you said your bladder is a bit cold.

1:27:54.920 --> 1:28:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, the up you're bladder. That's a funny thing

1:28:03.680 --> 1:28:16.240
<v Speaker 2>to say. We're back in a moment with the thank

1:28:16.280 --> 1:28:18.400
<v Speaker 2>you gee for doing the story this week. Are you

1:28:18.479 --> 1:28:19.679
<v Speaker 2>ready for some letters?

1:28:19.800 --> 1:28:19.920
<v Speaker 7>Yes?

1:28:20.000 --> 1:28:20.160
<v Speaker 11>I do.

1:28:20.160 --> 1:28:21.759
<v Speaker 1>You know why I just jumped to a new spaker,

1:28:21.800 --> 1:28:22.000
<v Speaker 1>but I.

1:28:22.040 --> 1:28:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Was scared that this comes from Susie, Hi, Sammy, and Georgia.

1:28:25.560 --> 1:28:27.839
<v Speaker 2>I am a road nurse and listen to your episodes

1:28:27.880 --> 1:28:32.080
<v Speaker 2>driving between clients. My favorite episode was with Elizabeth from

1:28:32.120 --> 1:28:34.920
<v Speaker 2>best dead. It's not a crime, but I had a

1:28:34.960 --> 1:28:40.400
<v Speaker 2>Thursday treat suggestion. It's in Georgia's fave placed, Tasmania and

1:28:40.720 --> 1:28:43.439
<v Speaker 2>is the disappearance of Selene Kremer.

1:28:43.960 --> 1:28:45.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh, hang on, I know the name, but I can't

1:28:45.560 --> 1:28:46.400
<v Speaker 1>think of the case.

1:28:46.520 --> 1:28:49.200
<v Speaker 2>The community rallied to find answers for a family when

1:28:49.200 --> 1:28:56.519
<v Speaker 2>the officials didn't. This case is as neat as a resolution. Oh,

1:28:56.680 --> 1:28:59.639
<v Speaker 2>this case is at near resolution.

1:28:59.840 --> 1:29:02.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure nearly at its resolution.

1:29:02.360 --> 1:29:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Nearly at a resolution. Rob Parsons YouTube is a great

1:29:05.840 --> 1:29:09.120
<v Speaker 2>place to start the good work. Susie.

1:29:09.360 --> 1:29:13.479
<v Speaker 1>Oh, thanks Susie. I loves.

1:29:15.080 --> 1:29:16.080
<v Speaker 2>That was cools.

1:29:16.120 --> 1:29:16.840
<v Speaker 1>I just made it up.

1:29:17.200 --> 1:29:21.800
<v Speaker 2>That was really cool. This is a voicemail call Them

1:29:22.080 --> 1:29:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Speak pipe from Ali.

1:29:25.960 --> 1:29:27.400
<v Speaker 7>Hi, Sammy and Georgia.

1:29:27.720 --> 1:29:30.639
<v Speaker 11>My name's Emma, No, just kidding, it's Alie.

1:29:31.960 --> 1:29:33.960
<v Speaker 7>Long time listeners. Second time.

1:29:35.720 --> 1:29:38.719
<v Speaker 11>Going to say how much I've been loving the pod

1:29:39.120 --> 1:29:43.280
<v Speaker 11>and loving the longer episodes. They are really enjoyable and

1:29:43.320 --> 1:29:45.800
<v Speaker 11>they're perfect for me for my drive to work. I

1:29:45.920 --> 1:29:48.400
<v Speaker 11>managed to finish one on the way to and from

1:29:48.400 --> 1:29:48.960
<v Speaker 11>each day.

1:29:49.720 --> 1:29:54.200
<v Speaker 7>That's fantastic. Definitely. I think the girls are loving when.

1:29:54.040 --> 1:29:57.240
<v Speaker 11>I come in in the morning and say, oh my God, guys,

1:29:57.360 --> 1:29:59.880
<v Speaker 11>guess what's just happened on my podcast that I listened to?

1:30:00.240 --> 1:30:01.120
<v Speaker 7>And I told them all.

1:30:01.040 --> 1:30:03.880
<v Speaker 11>About it, and the first thing they say is, who's died?

1:30:03.960 --> 1:30:06.479
<v Speaker 7>Now? What's happened? Now?

1:30:06.520 --> 1:30:09.360
<v Speaker 11>What terrible things are you about to tell us? So

1:30:09.400 --> 1:30:11.920
<v Speaker 11>that's really fun but loving it.

1:30:12.880 --> 1:30:15.639
<v Speaker 7>And next thing is I have a case for you.

1:30:15.760 --> 1:30:19.240
<v Speaker 11>Oh, I would really love to hear your take on

1:30:19.320 --> 1:30:22.960
<v Speaker 11>the Rachelle Child's case. What's the one that I heard

1:30:22.960 --> 1:30:26.320
<v Speaker 11>of and stumbled across I guess and have become really

1:30:26.400 --> 1:30:29.679
<v Speaker 11>invested in. And it's just one that really sits close

1:30:29.720 --> 1:30:32.360
<v Speaker 11>to home and would love to hear your take on it.

1:30:32.800 --> 1:30:36.679
<v Speaker 11>Say hi to Paud's and Digs and I can't wait

1:30:36.760 --> 1:30:39.120
<v Speaker 11>to hear more from you both soon.

1:30:39.680 --> 1:30:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh, thank you Ali, Emma, em there's so many Thank

1:30:43.840 --> 1:30:44.479
<v Speaker 1>you Ali.

1:30:45.000 --> 1:30:48.280
<v Speaker 2>And Jemma seemed to be the big one. So Jemma

1:30:48.720 --> 1:30:51.840
<v Speaker 2>both g E M m A and j E M

1:30:52.000 --> 1:30:54.439
<v Speaker 2>m A. It mixes it that.

1:30:56.160 --> 1:30:59.040
<v Speaker 1>One could I just I love that as well. I

1:30:59.080 --> 1:31:01.879
<v Speaker 1>love hearing you say when you go into work and say,

1:31:02.000 --> 1:31:04.320
<v Speaker 1>I guess what happened on my podcast? I love that.

1:31:04.479 --> 1:31:08.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. This one comes from Emily.

1:31:09.200 --> 1:31:13.200
<v Speaker 1>You're going to say, Emma, Hi, Sammy and Georgia.

1:31:13.720 --> 1:31:16.679
<v Speaker 10>Big fan of the podcast here and I'm a fellow

1:31:17.120 --> 1:31:18.280
<v Speaker 10>Sea Change.

1:31:18.000 --> 1:31:20.280
<v Speaker 7>Tragic as well. In the day.

1:31:20.840 --> 1:31:23.479
<v Speaker 10>Coming to you this morning from the Inner West from

1:31:23.560 --> 1:31:25.519
<v Speaker 10>glorious Williamstown, where.

1:31:25.280 --> 1:31:27.720
<v Speaker 2>It's a beautiful world for.

1:31:27.680 --> 1:31:32.759
<v Speaker 10>An absolute scorch yesterday. And I'm sending you this message

1:31:32.760 --> 1:31:36.839
<v Speaker 10>because I listened to your podcast last week and I

1:31:36.880 --> 1:31:39.759
<v Speaker 10>thought you might be interested to know that the Pearl

1:31:39.840 --> 1:31:44.000
<v Speaker 10>Bay Courthouse in the TV series Sea Change is actually

1:31:44.280 --> 1:31:47.080
<v Speaker 10>the Surf Life Saving Clubhouse here at Williamstown.

1:31:48.080 --> 1:31:50.639
<v Speaker 7>And there's a little Clark memorializing it with a little

1:31:50.640 --> 1:31:52.920
<v Speaker 7>bit of information. So I'll send you some pics.

1:31:53.760 --> 1:31:57.760
<v Speaker 10>Who would have thought that the glorious Pearl Bay Courthouse

1:31:58.120 --> 1:32:01.599
<v Speaker 10>it's here in your home city of Oh my god,

1:32:02.600 --> 1:32:05.720
<v Speaker 10>in Williamstown. I walk past it every day with my

1:32:05.800 --> 1:32:09.800
<v Speaker 10>dog and we have very fond memories of Sea Change.

1:32:09.800 --> 1:32:14.479
<v Speaker 10>Will I do my dog doesn't. So keep up the

1:32:14.520 --> 1:32:17.160
<v Speaker 10>great work on the podcast. It gives me a good

1:32:17.240 --> 1:32:20.280
<v Speaker 10>laugh every twice a week. I don't know how you

1:32:20.320 --> 1:32:20.639
<v Speaker 10>do it.

1:32:21.080 --> 1:32:25.240
<v Speaker 1>No, thank you, Oh my god, Emily, that's amazing. Okay,

1:32:25.240 --> 1:32:28.160
<v Speaker 1>that is blowing our minds. Williams add Is like like

1:32:28.360 --> 1:32:30.519
<v Speaker 1>twenty minute drive from here is Emmy. We could go

1:32:30.560 --> 1:32:32.439
<v Speaker 1>there right now if we want to do there's.

1:32:32.360 --> 1:32:36.519
<v Speaker 2>Vot you attach photos, So as promised, here are some

1:32:36.600 --> 1:32:39.280
<v Speaker 2>pics of Pearl Bay Courthouse from my walk to Willie

1:32:39.280 --> 1:32:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Beach this morning to accompany my voice message. And yeah,

1:32:42.400 --> 1:32:46.480
<v Speaker 2>there's a plaque that says the sea change.

1:32:46.880 --> 1:32:49.759
<v Speaker 1>All the locations were like out in regional Victoria.

1:32:50.200 --> 1:32:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, isn't that why it's probably there Williamstown and right

1:32:53.320 --> 1:32:57.720
<v Speaker 2>there because I was wondering how a court has on.

1:32:57.680 --> 1:32:59.719
<v Speaker 1>The beach, but it's you're actually caught out.

1:32:59.800 --> 1:32:59.960
<v Speaker 7>I know.

1:33:00.120 --> 1:33:02.439
<v Speaker 2>But in the shops to court, what is this? Do

1:33:02.520 --> 1:33:04.920
<v Speaker 2>they film it separately? Like what is going on? That's

1:33:05.120 --> 1:33:07.880
<v Speaker 2>so we should do a little.

1:33:09.080 --> 1:33:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Expedition. Yeah, absolutely, I was thinking excursion expedition came out,

1:33:13.920 --> 1:33:15.320
<v Speaker 1>but then I remembered I'm an excursion.

1:33:15.400 --> 1:33:19.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, Emily can show us around for the next one.

1:33:20.040 --> 1:33:25.599
<v Speaker 2>This is a another speak pipe that comes from Hannah.

1:33:26.080 --> 1:33:29.040
<v Speaker 7>Hi, Georgia Love and Sammy P. This is Hannah.

1:33:29.200 --> 1:33:32.679
<v Speaker 12>I love listening to your podcast every week, multiple times

1:33:32.680 --> 1:33:35.680
<v Speaker 12>a week. It feels like I'm just listening to all

1:33:35.720 --> 1:33:38.960
<v Speaker 12>the latest Cross with Friends, throwing a good dose of crime.

1:33:39.240 --> 1:33:43.800
<v Speaker 12>It's just really makes my week so funny. Story back

1:33:43.840 --> 1:33:46.960
<v Speaker 12>in twenty thirteen, I went to LA and I was

1:33:47.000 --> 1:33:49.920
<v Speaker 12>meeting one of my friends there. She got me to

1:33:49.920 --> 1:33:53.559
<v Speaker 12>book the accommodation brokeun new student wanted something budget friendly

1:33:54.040 --> 1:33:56.799
<v Speaker 12>and near to where my tour was leading.

1:33:56.600 --> 1:33:58.840
<v Speaker 1>From books stay on me.

1:34:00.080 --> 1:34:03.280
<v Speaker 12>I arrived to date bellier than she did, and I

1:34:03.360 --> 1:34:06.639
<v Speaker 12>barely slept the first night because I was so creeped out.

1:34:07.120 --> 1:34:08.439
<v Speaker 7>I couldn't understand why.

1:34:08.520 --> 1:34:11.639
<v Speaker 12>I just got the egg feeling right from the God

1:34:12.120 --> 1:34:14.280
<v Speaker 12>my friend felt the same thing when she ruked.

1:34:14.800 --> 1:34:18.559
<v Speaker 7>Anyway, many minuyears later, I just.

1:34:18.520 --> 1:34:22.080
<v Speaker 12>Happened to be flipping through the Prime documentaries on Netflix

1:34:22.479 --> 1:34:27.360
<v Speaker 12>and actually found the Cecil Hotel documentary and dispatch myself

1:34:27.960 --> 1:34:29.840
<v Speaker 12>lasting that i'd actually stayed there for.

1:34:30.000 --> 1:34:33.439
<v Speaker 7>A few days. Anyway, keep up the good work.

1:34:33.920 --> 1:34:41.680
<v Speaker 1>Hi, Oh my god, Brad. Yeah, theilor that is amazing, incredible,

1:34:41.760 --> 1:34:44.559
<v Speaker 1>sonyone doesn't know we're talking about the Eliza Lamb episode.

1:34:44.600 --> 1:34:47.400
<v Speaker 1>You speak about the Cesil Hotel. Also, I did a

1:34:47.479 --> 1:34:49.760
<v Speaker 1>continue to starting in La in twenty.

1:34:49.520 --> 1:34:50.479
<v Speaker 2>Twelve, did you.

1:34:50.680 --> 1:34:52.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so Hannah, we nearly could have met Hannah.

1:34:52.960 --> 1:34:53.599
<v Speaker 2>What the hell?

1:34:54.320 --> 1:34:54.400
<v Speaker 7>What?

1:34:55.720 --> 1:34:57.519
<v Speaker 1>But I didn't stay at the Stale Main.

1:34:57.800 --> 1:35:00.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's isn't it.

1:35:00.960 --> 1:35:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, that's amazing.

1:35:03.200 --> 1:35:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Stay there.

1:35:04.160 --> 1:35:06.160
<v Speaker 1>I love that she said that she got the creeps

1:35:06.160 --> 1:35:08.839
<v Speaker 1>from it and didn't know why because of the portal.

1:35:09.560 --> 1:35:12.960
<v Speaker 2>The portal which we all believe in. Definitely the poor

1:35:13.800 --> 1:35:18.599
<v Speaker 2>Let's leave on a beautiful letter, okay from Leah. Hey,

1:35:18.640 --> 1:35:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Sammy and Georgia love the pod. I have to say

1:35:21.040 --> 1:35:22.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm a little obsessed.

1:35:22.320 --> 1:35:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah.

1:35:23.560 --> 1:35:26.479
<v Speaker 2>I only discovered you guys this year sow twenty six,

1:35:26.960 --> 1:35:30.559
<v Speaker 2>and I've already listened to every single episode. I just

1:35:30.600 --> 1:35:32.599
<v Speaker 2>wanted to send it in a case suggestion you might

1:35:32.680 --> 1:35:36.360
<v Speaker 2>be interested in. I'd love to hear some Australians cover

1:35:36.439 --> 1:35:40.080
<v Speaker 2>this one, because I'm only ever found American podcast talking

1:35:40.120 --> 1:35:43.400
<v Speaker 2>about it, which feels pretty strange given it happened here.

1:35:44.280 --> 1:35:47.040
<v Speaker 2>It was around two thousand and six. I was living

1:35:47.120 --> 1:35:49.800
<v Speaker 2>in nar A Hill at the time, and one day

1:35:49.920 --> 1:35:53.880
<v Speaker 2>there were helicopters everywhere over our street. Later that day

1:35:53.920 --> 1:35:56.040
<v Speaker 2>we found out via the news that murders had taken

1:35:56.080 --> 1:35:59.800
<v Speaker 2>place in our street. The case is more commonly known

1:35:59.800 --> 1:36:03.440
<v Speaker 2>as the Bodies in the Barrel's murders in now Ah.

1:36:03.120 --> 1:36:04.919
<v Speaker 1>Because the bodies in the Barrels snow.

1:36:05.479 --> 1:36:08.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah exactly. I think it would be really compelling,

1:36:08.760 --> 1:36:11.640
<v Speaker 2>a really compelling case for you guys to cover, especially

1:36:11.680 --> 1:36:14.240
<v Speaker 2>since there wasn't a lot of coverage out there. And

1:36:14.280 --> 1:36:17.120
<v Speaker 2>it's always stuck with me because I was actually there

1:36:17.240 --> 1:36:20.080
<v Speaker 2>at the time. Anyway, love your work, Keep doing what

1:36:20.120 --> 1:36:23.760
<v Speaker 2>you do by Leah and she's a little yellow love Hunt.

1:36:23.920 --> 1:36:26.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh I love that. Oh, Lea, that's great. I know

1:36:28.160 --> 1:36:30.439
<v Speaker 1>that is like I know the story but not well,

1:36:30.560 --> 1:36:32.439
<v Speaker 1>so I'm going to look into that and yeah, let's

1:36:32.479 --> 1:36:35.240
<v Speaker 1>be the first Australian podcast to do that. That also

1:36:35.280 --> 1:36:36.519
<v Speaker 1>reminds me of the story. I should have said this

1:36:36.560 --> 1:36:41.479
<v Speaker 1>at the start. A friend of mine did some work

1:36:41.800 --> 1:36:46.680
<v Speaker 1>for someone who hosts another crime podcast. Yes this is

1:36:46.680 --> 1:36:53.640
<v Speaker 1>not another crime podcast, they are then actual one. Anyway,

1:36:54.439 --> 1:36:56.800
<v Speaker 1>she said, my friend said to me to she shows.

1:36:56.840 --> 1:36:59.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if this person was having a direct

1:36:59.240 --> 1:37:00.840
<v Speaker 1>dig at you or for or if I just thought

1:37:00.840 --> 1:37:03.280
<v Speaker 1>they were because I'm your friend. But this person said

1:37:04.280 --> 1:37:08.080
<v Speaker 1>I hate when crime podcasts try to be funny. I

1:37:08.160 --> 1:37:10.000
<v Speaker 1>was like, green is not your color.

1:37:10.240 --> 1:37:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah exactly, We're not trying.

1:37:11.760 --> 1:37:14.280
<v Speaker 1>To be funny about the crimes. Yeah, and actually we

1:37:14.320 --> 1:37:15.920
<v Speaker 1>don't try to be funny at all. All right, we're

1:37:15.960 --> 1:37:16.720
<v Speaker 1>just actually.

1:37:17.400 --> 1:37:19.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to get end actually on two quick out

1:37:19.200 --> 1:37:21.719
<v Speaker 2>Spotify comments because I absolutely love reading Spotify comments.

1:37:21.760 --> 1:37:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because they're about a specific episode.

1:37:23.920 --> 1:37:24.479
<v Speaker 2>It's so good.

1:37:24.520 --> 1:37:26.640
<v Speaker 6>We love that, so please please keep doing that.

1:37:26.880 --> 1:37:30.360
<v Speaker 2>This is from Emma, Hey, Sammy and love Emma here

1:37:30.439 --> 1:37:33.400
<v Speaker 2>once again, which one. Thank you so much for reading

1:37:33.400 --> 1:37:35.519
<v Speaker 2>my email on the podcast. I just wanted to say.

1:37:35.640 --> 1:37:37.600
<v Speaker 2>I put the time stamps in my email so the

1:37:37.680 --> 1:37:39.960
<v Speaker 2>audio clips could be played on the episode lave faces.

1:37:40.880 --> 1:37:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Look you just read out the time I just read

1:37:42.960 --> 1:37:46.559
<v Speaker 2>a look, Emma, I'll be honest. We sometimes record on

1:37:46.600 --> 1:37:49.400
<v Speaker 2>a Sunday, which means that the amount of editing I

1:37:49.439 --> 1:37:51.360
<v Speaker 2>had to do for the episodes is quite big. So

1:37:51.479 --> 1:37:53.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry I didn't actually go back and put the

1:37:53.560 --> 1:37:55.280
<v Speaker 2>actual clips in there as well.

1:37:55.160 --> 1:37:56.080
<v Speaker 1>But he'll do it now.

1:37:57.200 --> 1:37:59.920
<v Speaker 2>No, we're runn late again.

1:38:00.040 --> 1:38:01.240
<v Speaker 1>You look so upset.

1:38:02.560 --> 1:38:04.639
<v Speaker 2>We always say we're going to get ahead on this podcast,

1:38:04.720 --> 1:38:07.840
<v Speaker 2>we never really have. And this one, which is one

1:38:07.880 --> 1:38:13.320
<v Speaker 2>of my absolute favorites so far. It comes from I

1:38:13.360 --> 1:38:16.800
<v Speaker 2>think your name is Clara Lanise. I think it might

1:38:16.840 --> 1:38:19.040
<v Speaker 2>be two words, or if your whole if your first

1:38:19.160 --> 1:38:24.960
<v Speaker 2>name is Claren Clarinese. Clarine, congrats making it to a year.

1:38:25.439 --> 1:38:29.240
<v Speaker 2>Such a great podcast. Bring on the Feathers McGraw episode,

1:38:29.280 --> 1:38:33.559
<v Speaker 2>and then Penguin emojeng emoi, which is actually correct because

1:38:33.560 --> 1:38:33.960
<v Speaker 2>it's not a.

1:38:33.960 --> 1:38:37.120
<v Speaker 3>Chook, it's not a.

1:38:36.960 --> 1:38:42.240
<v Speaker 2>Now we have amazing, amazing voicemails, and we've got so

1:38:42.320 --> 1:38:44.880
<v Speaker 2>many internet letters as well that keep coming through. We

1:38:44.960 --> 1:38:47.120
<v Speaker 2>will read them all and we will get to them all.

1:38:47.400 --> 1:38:50.479
<v Speaker 2>We absolutely love it. Gee, how can people leave these?

1:38:50.520 --> 1:38:52.599
<v Speaker 1>If they want to leave us, they can email us

1:38:52.640 --> 1:38:56.080
<v Speaker 1>at Sammy at just another company dot com dot au.

1:38:56.280 --> 1:39:01.120
<v Speaker 1>They can leave us a voice note VI via website

1:39:01.120 --> 1:39:02.800
<v Speaker 1>called speak Pipe, and the link to that is in

1:39:02.840 --> 1:39:04.639
<v Speaker 1>the show notes of the episode and in the link

1:39:04.680 --> 1:39:07.000
<v Speaker 1>tree on our Instagram, which I'm so glad you asked.

1:39:07.320 --> 1:39:09.960
<v Speaker 1>The handle is not another crime podcast. Guess what it's

1:39:10.000 --> 1:39:12.559
<v Speaker 1>the same on TikTok, and guess what it's the same

1:39:12.600 --> 1:39:17.479
<v Speaker 1>on YouTube our full episode. You can see my life

1:39:17.520 --> 1:39:19.519
<v Speaker 1>of a show, got miss Piggy t shirt and you

1:39:19.560 --> 1:39:22.160
<v Speaker 1>can at the moment I did spit take out of

1:39:23.479 --> 1:39:25.599
<v Speaker 1>and I hadn't had any thing to drink, so it was.

1:39:25.560 --> 1:39:27.640
<v Speaker 2>Just my address. I think at the start.

1:39:29.240 --> 1:39:33.240
<v Speaker 1>I shouldn't have said it's your address, we should definitely

1:39:33.840 --> 1:39:36.880
<v Speaker 1>you can see Sammy staring down the barrel while trying

1:39:36.880 --> 1:39:38.040
<v Speaker 1>to flirt with Helen.

1:39:37.800 --> 1:39:39.360
<v Speaker 6>Ghana through the lens.

1:39:39.880 --> 1:39:44.599
<v Speaker 1>You can also leave us a powdry peep. Oh yeah,

1:39:45.040 --> 1:39:47.479
<v Speaker 1>forget about Yeah, I gotta look up. I keep it

1:39:47.560 --> 1:39:50.080
<v Speaker 1>listed all the if they don't just like come.

1:39:49.960 --> 1:39:52.760
<v Speaker 2>To mind, well, yeah, I'm going to talk about my

1:39:52.840 --> 1:39:54.519
<v Speaker 2>special little bit more before you actually and because I

1:39:54.520 --> 1:39:57.000
<v Speaker 2>want to tell you to go and bloody check it out.

1:39:57.120 --> 1:40:01.320
<v Speaker 2>I actually had started to write down I've got mine.

1:40:01.320 --> 1:40:02.080
<v Speaker 1>Are you ready for mine?

1:40:02.320 --> 1:40:02.519
<v Speaker 2>Yep?

1:40:03.520 --> 1:40:06.200
<v Speaker 1>That you have to fill out? Oh I feel good

1:40:06.280 --> 1:40:09.360
<v Speaker 1>saying this is this makes me so angry. When you arrive,

1:40:09.479 --> 1:40:12.000
<v Speaker 1>if you've been lunky enough to travel overseas and your

1:40:12.040 --> 1:40:14.760
<v Speaker 1>eyes back into Australia, you still have to fill out

1:40:15.040 --> 1:40:20.040
<v Speaker 1>a physical arrivals card with a pen and paper. Oh yes,

1:40:20.400 --> 1:40:23.360
<v Speaker 1>on the plane to go through customs. It is the

1:40:23.400 --> 1:40:26.680
<v Speaker 1>only country that I've been to that you still need

1:40:26.720 --> 1:40:30.560
<v Speaker 1>to physically hand right these things. And it's so annoying,

1:40:30.960 --> 1:40:33.120
<v Speaker 1>and it makes it even more annoying that the paper

1:40:33.200 --> 1:40:35.840
<v Speaker 1>is on it's like a really light orange color, so

1:40:35.840 --> 1:40:37.960
<v Speaker 1>you can't really see the white boxes that you meant

1:40:38.000 --> 1:40:40.120
<v Speaker 1>to put the letters in, and I just it's just

1:40:40.160 --> 1:40:42.640
<v Speaker 1>become like a proper pet Peeve to me that like

1:40:42.680 --> 1:40:44.960
<v Speaker 1>there's nothing. It's fine. I can write the things, but

1:40:44.960 --> 1:40:47.280
<v Speaker 1>I just when I see them handing them around, I'm like, God, damn,

1:40:47.320 --> 1:40:48.799
<v Speaker 1>I update your freaking system.

1:40:49.040 --> 1:40:50.920
<v Speaker 2>It should be a QR code by now. For god,

1:40:52.080 --> 1:40:55.280
<v Speaker 2>mine is when you heat food on a plate and

1:40:55.320 --> 1:41:00.320
<v Speaker 2>the plate is absolute lava. The food is emotionally very old,

1:41:00.720 --> 1:41:04.880
<v Speaker 2>emotionally emotionally very cold. So that's mine for this week.

1:41:04.880 --> 1:41:07.280
<v Speaker 2>That is my god damn, poor Drey Peeve. And can

1:41:07.360 --> 1:41:09.439
<v Speaker 2>I say, gee love. What I'm gonna do now is

1:41:09.520 --> 1:41:12.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to do a live look at how many

1:41:12.360 --> 1:41:14.840
<v Speaker 2>people have watched my specials. Oh my god, my god,

1:41:14.920 --> 1:41:17.639
<v Speaker 2>because this is at the moment it came out on

1:41:17.760 --> 1:41:20.519
<v Speaker 2>four hours ago, now, twenty four hours ago. I'm going

1:41:20.600 --> 1:41:22.479
<v Speaker 2>to do a live look see I people are watching.

1:41:22.479 --> 1:41:25.040
<v Speaker 2>It's gonna I's gonna play, It's gonna play it. I'm

1:41:25.040 --> 1:41:28.440
<v Speaker 2>on sixteen thousand views. Fuck off, i am on sixteen

1:41:28.800 --> 1:41:31.080
<v Speaker 2>thousand views, So you can.

1:41:31.000 --> 1:41:31.559
<v Speaker 4>Check that out.

1:41:31.680 --> 1:41:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Sam one long face sixteen, I'm on sixteen thousand years,

1:41:36.800 --> 1:41:38.799
<v Speaker 2>sixteen thousand views.

1:41:38.960 --> 1:41:45.880
<v Speaker 5>Oh my my, oh my goodness, the proudest friend in

1:41:45.960 --> 1:41:46.960
<v Speaker 5>the whole damn world.

1:41:47.120 --> 1:41:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh you said I can see a Timmy Jit song.

1:41:49.479 --> 1:41:52.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, course, but yeah, I would love it. Like honestly,

1:41:53.880 --> 1:41:56.519
<v Speaker 2>what happens is, I've done this show for a very

1:41:56.600 --> 1:41:58.240
<v Speaker 2>very long time. This is the last time that I

1:41:58.240 --> 1:42:01.519
<v Speaker 2>did it. And it costs a lot to film a special.

1:42:01.720 --> 1:42:03.800
<v Speaker 2>It costs a lot to do all of that. That's

1:42:03.840 --> 1:42:05.040
<v Speaker 2>just me out of pocket. I'm not going to make

1:42:05.040 --> 1:42:08.960
<v Speaker 2>any money out of this. On YouTube famously free and

1:42:09.520 --> 1:42:13.560
<v Speaker 2>the Comedy Club, Comedy Republic put this up, so I

1:42:13.600 --> 1:42:17.320
<v Speaker 2>would bloody love it if you would just would just

1:42:17.360 --> 1:42:19.400
<v Speaker 2>watch it, share it with a friend, put it on

1:42:19.400 --> 1:42:21.200
<v Speaker 2>social media and tag me and all reshare it because

1:42:21.240 --> 1:42:24.479
<v Speaker 2>I absolutely love that if got it out there to me.

1:42:24.640 --> 1:42:27.639
<v Speaker 1>More importantly, you guys will love it like it's therefore

1:42:27.680 --> 1:42:31.639
<v Speaker 1>your entertainment. Sammy doesn't make anything from you watching it,

1:42:31.960 --> 1:42:34.880
<v Speaker 1>but you will make your night by watching it. It's

1:42:34.920 --> 1:42:37.800
<v Speaker 1>so beautiful. My friend messaged me she watched it last

1:42:37.880 --> 1:42:41.080
<v Speaker 1>night and messaged me afterwards and said, Sammy's comedy special

1:42:41.240 --> 1:42:44.320
<v Speaker 1>was dot dot dot beautiful. Question was like, I was

1:42:44.400 --> 1:42:47.120
<v Speaker 1>not expecting that it was so funny, but it was

1:42:47.160 --> 1:42:49.280
<v Speaker 1>really beautiful and it is as.

1:42:49.120 --> 1:42:51.799
<v Speaker 2>Your friend, Taylor. I thank you, Taylor, Love you Taylor.

1:42:52.640 --> 1:42:57.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah I was. I have also been swift several podcasts.

1:42:57.240 --> 1:43:00.840
<v Speaker 2>I've been on the Moment with Mith Warhurst. I have

1:43:00.960 --> 1:43:03.760
<v Speaker 2>been on Plumbing the Death Star. So if you want

1:43:03.800 --> 1:43:06.280
<v Speaker 2>to listen to those, I'm on all those and Uncomfortable

1:43:06.280 --> 1:43:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Conversations with Josh Zips to promote my special So yeah,

1:43:10.920 --> 1:43:13.000
<v Speaker 2>I'd love it if you actually and we talk about

1:43:13.160 --> 1:43:16.599
<v Speaker 2>this podcast a lot on myth Warers podcast about true

1:43:16.640 --> 1:43:17.880
<v Speaker 2>crime quite a lot as well.

1:43:18.080 --> 1:43:21.280
<v Speaker 1>The only thing I have to promote this week is

1:43:21.280 --> 1:43:23.040
<v Speaker 1>my voice in the start of Tim.

1:43:22.840 --> 1:43:25.439
<v Speaker 2>Mintionin Fantastic No Shoes. Girly do it?

1:43:25.520 --> 1:43:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Do you want me to sing a Tim mintionon song

1:43:27.120 --> 1:43:29.040
<v Speaker 1>or do you want me to do a Jeez Christ

1:43:29.040 --> 1:43:30.599
<v Speaker 1>Superstar song that Tim mintionin.

1:43:31.000 --> 1:43:32.639
<v Speaker 2>I would like you to do a Tim Mention song.

1:43:32.960 --> 1:43:38.519
<v Speaker 1>You go, girlfriend, I wanted to start. Okay, come home,

1:43:38.960 --> 1:43:43.599
<v Speaker 1>Cardinal pell. I know you're not feeling well. I don't

1:43:43.720 --> 1:43:46.160
<v Speaker 1>remembered the odd words.

1:43:47.280 --> 1:43:48.600
<v Speaker 2>Do you have a song that you know of his

1:43:48.720 --> 1:43:49.559
<v Speaker 2>that you maybe you could see.

1:43:50.640 --> 1:43:54.040
<v Speaker 1>Just picked on this podcast's great superstar? Well give me

1:43:54.120 --> 1:43:54.679
<v Speaker 1>another one?

1:43:55.320 --> 1:44:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Dark side. No, okay, canvas bags. Oh okay, that's

1:44:02.040 --> 1:44:02.680
<v Speaker 2>as good as well.

1:44:04.800 --> 1:44:06.240
<v Speaker 1>Now I'm blanking because all that.

1:44:07.120 --> 1:44:11.200
<v Speaker 2>We are going to end today on a song. Richard

1:44:12.320 --> 1:44:17.520
<v Speaker 2>Richard Cheese. Richard Cheese, He's a Vegas performer.

1:44:20.479 --> 1:44:21.439
<v Speaker 8>In the house.

1:44:23.800 --> 1:44:25.800
<v Speaker 9>There's some wores in the.

1:44:25.560 --> 1:44:30.320
<v Speaker 2>House, SARTI fried free.

1:44:32.880 --> 1:44:43.360
<v Speaker 9>Make that week wet ass pussy, make that pull out game.

1:44:43.560 --> 1:44:53.240
<v Speaker 9>We beat it up, baby, nice, old good, extra large,

1:44:54.160 --> 1:45:02.719
<v Speaker 9>extra hard, this pussy ride in your face, swave your nose.

1:45:02.400 --> 1:45:09.720
<v Speaker 2>Like a credit card. I want enough, I want to go.

1:45:10.000 --> 1:45:17.040
<v Speaker 2>I do a kiggle. Whoa, it's in soil okay out

1:45:17.160 --> 1:45:21.240
<v Speaker 2>here anyway, everybody, Thank you was always for listening. We'll

1:45:21.280 --> 1:45:23.880
<v Speaker 2>see you on Thursday. Leave the five star rating. Leg

1:45:23.920 --> 1:45:26.640
<v Speaker 2>of five star review you simply must have, must you.

1:45:26.760 --> 1:45:28.679
<v Speaker 2>Thank you to Tams and Hayes is always doing the artwork.

1:45:28.720 --> 1:45:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Thank you Oliver Clark for doing the music and the

1:45:31.320 --> 1:45:31.800
<v Speaker 2>theme song.

1:45:31.880 --> 1:45:35.200
<v Speaker 1>Watch Sammy Special go onto his instagram Sammy Peterson Unofficial

1:45:35.240 --> 1:45:36.879
<v Speaker 1>and find it her.

1:45:36.840 --> 1:45:41.559
<v Speaker 2>Pig power hell watch us on YouTube. Support us as

1:45:41.600 --> 1:45:43.320
<v Speaker 2>much as you can, share this podcast with a friend

1:45:43.439 --> 1:45:44.719
<v Speaker 2>and tag us on social media.

1:45:44.760 --> 1:45:45.760
<v Speaker 1>And I love you, I.

1:45:46.120 --> 1:45:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Love you bye everybody. TikTok book talk Star,