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Speaker 1: Screen time. It's an enduring issue and in the Colson

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Speaker 1: family with six daughters, Oh my goodness, do we go

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Speaker 1: over this a lot? Or what today? On the Happy

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Speaker 1: Families Podcast I'll Do Better Tomorrow, we tackle screen time

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Speaker 1: in a way that we never have before, because things

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Speaker 1: have erupted in a way that they never have before.

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Speaker 1: Could they Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, Real Parenting

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Speaker 1: Solutions every Day. This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast.

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Speaker 1: We are Justin and Kylie Calson. Before we talk about

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Speaker 1: old do Better Tomorrow and the things we've learned about

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Speaker 1: parenting this week and our adventures with the kids. I've

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Speaker 1: got the best, the biggest, the most exciting twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five announcement and I'm just so excited about it. Here

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Speaker 1: we go. Our kids are growing up in the world

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Speaker 1: we never imagine.

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Speaker 2: Take a breath.

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Speaker 1: This is confronting content.

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Speaker 2: Young people. We say that we've got it under control.

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Speaker 1: We don't. Over four powerful nights of event television in

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Speaker 1: an increasingly online world. There are so many risks that

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Speaker 1: are emerging. Eight usy families tackle the biggest challenges.

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Speaker 2: This is Judy.

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Speaker 1: No one knows it was luring her in four nights.

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Speaker 1: Four major issues, three times, peer pressure, forty image and

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Speaker 1: mental health, one chance to get it right. We should

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Speaker 1: be very careful not to feminoze our males. Oh no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: here we go. Good conversation all of Australia. Those two

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Speaker 1: words support seeking say lives must have. We're diving into

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Speaker 1: the biggest parenting mine field. Yes, New Parental Guidance Monday

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Speaker 1: June thirty on nine. I'm so excited about this.

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Speaker 2: That's a pretty awesome promo.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited. So if you missed the details the news,

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Speaker 1: it's coming up Monday June thirty on Channel nine. Friend

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Speaker 1: of Guidance season three. It's official. We can talk about it.

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Speaker 1: We are so stoked for it, and we hope that

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Speaker 1: you will join us and watch it. We'll be talking

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Speaker 1: about it right through the entire series. So the episodes

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Speaker 1: will drop on a Monday night and then you and

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Speaker 1: I are going to pull them apart on Tuesday, Wednesday

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Speaker 1: and Thursday of that week. So much, so much good stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I may have just received a preview episode for

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Speaker 1: episode one.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Way, okay, all right, let's let's move on. I'll do

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Speaker 1: about it tomorrow, Kylie. This is the bit where we

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Speaker 1: talk about the stuff that we've learned and the stuff

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Speaker 1: we've been challenged by, so that we can be more

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Speaker 1: intentional as parents moving into the weekend and into a

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Speaker 1: new week. Do you want to go first or should I?

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Speaker 2: Well? No, Actually I wanted to share a quick little

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Speaker 2: anecdote that happened the other day around the dinner table.

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Speaker 2: One of our girls brought a friend home to share

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Speaker 2: a meal with us the other night, and as we

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Speaker 2: were talking, the podcast came up and she looked at

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Speaker 2: us and she said, what's your podcast about? And in unison,

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Speaker 2: all of the kids said, Emily.

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Speaker 1: Not parenting, It's not a parent of podcasts. Emily, Well,

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Speaker 1: today's podcast is not about Emily. For those of you

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Speaker 1: who are new to the pot, Emily is our youngestries

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Speaker 1: were changing it up today. Yeah, we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about our shop.

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Speaker 2: No we're not.

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Speaker 1: No, you can't say that. Okay, we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about one of our children who is not Emily. So's

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Speaker 1: here's the deal. We have been talking about screens in

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Speaker 1: our home for a long time, and specifically we've been

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Speaker 1: pointing out that things aren't great, like there are some

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Speaker 1: people who can use screens and they are barely affected

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Speaker 1: by them. There are some people who use screens and

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Speaker 1: have really significant impacts, probably because of a handful of

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Speaker 1: other things that could be going on in their lives.

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Speaker 1: And one of our kids has been really struggling from

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Speaker 1: a mental health perspective, and a social perspective, and a

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Speaker 1: physical health perspective, I mean kind of from all the perspectives,

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Speaker 1: and consistently we've been saying, let's help you to be healthy,

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Speaker 1: let's help you to make wise choices, safe choices, healthy choices,

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Speaker 1: and let's help you to get screens out of your

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Speaker 1: life a little bit, because we know that this is

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Speaker 1: going to make a difference, it is going to have

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Speaker 1: an impact, and she understands what we're saying, but there's

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Speaker 1: no response, there's no change in behavior. And over the

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Speaker 1: last little while, I think it's fair to say that

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Speaker 1: things have been getting increasingly challenging for her, and her

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Speaker 1: mental health has really plummeted. This is not the only issue,

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Speaker 1: but I know that it's a predictor. I know it's

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Speaker 1: one of the central issues. And so a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, I sat down and I said, no matter

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Speaker 1: how many times we've talked, there has been no corresponding

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Speaker 1: change in behavior. So you don't want me to do this.

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Speaker 1: I know you're going to be upset about it. But

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Speaker 1: as your dad, and as the person with the prefrontal

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Speaker 1: cortex that is functioning and the one who's watching it

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Speaker 1: happen and seeing your life become more challenging, and also

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Speaker 1: the remainder of your relationships like in our home, becoming

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Speaker 1: more challenging, I'm going to do something that neither you

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Speaker 1: nor I want, and that is I am going to

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Speaker 1: take the phone away from you just for a short while.

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Speaker 1: I described to her that study that we talked about

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Speaker 1: just last week on the Doctor's Desk episode where researchers

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Speaker 1: blocked internet access on smartphones for a couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: and people's well being increased, And I said, we're just

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Speaker 1: going to do two, three, maybe four weeks without a smartphone,

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Speaker 1: and we've got other options for you if you want them,

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Speaker 1: so you can still stay in touch with people, and

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Speaker 1: you can still use your laptop, but we're just going

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Speaker 1: to minimize your access to a smartphone and internet access

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Speaker 1: on that device. It would be an understatement to say

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Speaker 1: that things were challenging. Over the next couple of days,

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Speaker 1: For two or three days, it was really difficult, low

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Speaker 1: mood followed by very high, very unpleasant mood. Lots of

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Speaker 1: big swings, but none of it really good. It was

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Speaker 1: just a really, really hard couple of days. And we

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Speaker 1: were about two days in and I was just thinking,

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Speaker 1: this is why I always say to people, you've got

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Speaker 1: to work with your kids, don't do things to them.

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Speaker 1: But the whole way through, even when she was cranky,

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Speaker 1: we were really calm. We were really patient, and we

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Speaker 1: were saying, we know this is hard for you, and

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Speaker 1: we know it doesn't seem fair, but we really believe

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Speaker 1: that we're acting your best interests and we're here to

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Speaker 1: talk to you at any point. So anyway, by about

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Speaker 1: i don't know, three or four days in, I noticed

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Speaker 1: a shift. And this is the thing that I really

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Speaker 1: want to emphasize. We're not big on force. Force creates resistance,

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Speaker 1: but with enough scaffolding, with enough support, with enough conversation

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Speaker 1: around why sometimes we as parents are going to make

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Speaker 1: decisions that the children may not agree with. The Research

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Speaker 1: and our experience certainly support the idea that the children

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Speaker 1: able to deal with and respond to these challenges and

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Speaker 1: these issues in much more productive ways. I think I

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Speaker 1: took the phone offer on Monday morning. Maybe it was

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Speaker 1: Sunday night, I'm pretty sure it was Monday morning, And

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Speaker 1: by Thursday the shift was complete. By Thursday afternoon, I

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Speaker 1: walked into the house and she was laughing her head

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Speaker 1: off with her sisters. By Friday, we had a day

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Speaker 1: of pure delight. By Saturday we will It was just

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Speaker 1: just joy. That's the only word I can describe. And

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Speaker 1: even on Sunday, fully a week in, I felt like

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Speaker 1: we had a different daughter. And the most incredible thing

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Speaker 1: of all to me was that somewhere around Saturday, I said,

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Speaker 1: what are you noticing? And she said not much? I said, yeah, really,

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Speaker 1: what are you actually noticing? No pride here, Let's actually

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Speaker 1: talk about it. And she didn't really want to talk

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Speaker 1: about it. I said, okay, well, here's the thing. I

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Speaker 1: know that you're going to want to phone back eventually.

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Speaker 1: You know that I'm looking for somewhere between two to

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Speaker 1: four weeks to really push the reset button on this.

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Speaker 1: But when you're ready to have a chat about what

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Speaker 1: life looks like with a phone back in your life,

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Speaker 1: let me know, no pressure. We can do it today, tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: we can do it next week, just when you're ready.

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Speaker 1: And the thing that was it's the most startling, was

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Speaker 1: that on Sunday afternoon, out of nowhere, she just wandered

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Speaker 1: over and said, hey, can we have that chat? And

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Speaker 1: I said, sure, so long as you understand the phone's

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Speaker 1: not coming back to you today and she said no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I know. And as a result of the conversation, we

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Speaker 1: sat down, we pulled her phone out, we went through

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Speaker 1: the apps. She just started deleting them. She said, I

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Speaker 1: don't need TikTok anymore. I'm not going to have TikTok.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get rid of Snapchat. And we went

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Speaker 1: through app by app by app. She deleted so many

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Speaker 1: apps that are just unhelpful. And then I said, so,

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Speaker 1: what are the boundaries, the guidelines, what's the framework going

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Speaker 1: to be by which you use your phone? How are

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Speaker 1: we going to set this up moving forward? And Kylie

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Speaker 1: I didn't tell her anything. She just said, I am

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Speaker 1: noticing that I'm better without it. I don't think that

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Speaker 1: I need these social media platforms particularly, and I don't

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Speaker 1: have any games anyway. And sure enough, we went through

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Speaker 1: the whole phone and she just made so many incredible decisions,

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Speaker 1: so many wise decisions. I talked about limits, time limits,

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Speaker 1: when she will and when she won't have access to

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Speaker 1: the device. She even said this, She said, so with

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Speaker 1: her school, she does five weeks of indust replacement followed

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Speaker 1: by five weeks of a learning block at school. She said,

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Speaker 1: on placement, I really need the phone, Dad, but during

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Speaker 1: learning block, you can actually have the phone. I don't

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Speaker 1: need it, and life's actually kind of better without it.

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Speaker 1: One thing after another after another, she just said everything

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Speaker 1: that any parent could ever dream of. In fact, I

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Speaker 1: think that she was a little bit more strict on

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Speaker 1: herself than I probably would have been. But as she

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Speaker 1: was saying it and explaining why she wanted to do

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Speaker 1: the things she was doing, it just felt good. It

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Speaker 1: felt right. And then she had the phone back to

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Speaker 1: me and she said, a week, two weeks. I don't

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Speaker 1: really mind. I'm happy to go without it until the

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Speaker 1: end of school term, but I'd really like to have

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Speaker 1: it when I'm doing this activity, in this activity during

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Speaker 1: the holidays. For these reasons, and I just thought, she's

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Speaker 1: a different kid. She is a different kid. I keep

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Speaker 1: on making a big deal about it on the podcast

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Speaker 1: that screens are the great unhappiness machine that they have

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Speaker 1: been designed to addict our children, and the extraordinary loss

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Speaker 1: of human ten, the loss of relationships, the loss of

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Speaker 1: well being that they create is just catastrophic. I think

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Speaker 1: that's criminal. And I've watched this wonderful kid come back

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Speaker 1: into our lives in the most wonderful ways. So that

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Speaker 1: is my older better tomorrow. I don't like the forceful approach,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think that it was, but certainly I

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Speaker 1: did take control because we just weren't getting anywhere. But

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Speaker 1: with the right support and scaffolding around it, you can

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Speaker 1: still get great results, and sometimes as a parent it's

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Speaker 1: just necessary.

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Speaker 2: To step in. You share the analogy in one of

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Speaker 2: your books in relation to your kids swimming in the

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Speaker 2: swimming pool and how as parents we actually are the

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Speaker 2: boundary that holds the body of water. But when they're young,

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Speaker 2: we keep them close to the edge. They want to

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Speaker 2: be safe, they want to know that they've got a

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Speaker 2: stronghold right there, And as they get older, we start

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Speaker 2: to let them move to the middle where there isn't

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Speaker 2: an edge to grab onto, because they're starting to learn

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Speaker 2: and grow and swim for themselves without us being right there.

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Speaker 2: But they still need the boundary of the pool. And

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Speaker 2: I love that because our teenagers need that boundary more

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Speaker 2: than ever. And yet they're screaming to swim in the

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Speaker 2: ocean because they think they've got it. They think they've

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Speaker 2: got it all together, they think they know all the answers.

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Speaker 2: They think that we're just being too protective of them.

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Speaker 2: And what this situation has just again proven is that

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Speaker 2: they desperately need the boundaries in place because they can't

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Speaker 2: see what we can see firstly, and they can't moderate

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Speaker 2: for themselves. And as the week has gone on, a

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Speaker 2: couple of things have really stood out to me. The

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Speaker 2: first thing is that as a parent, sometimes you have

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Speaker 2: to play the bad guy, and in this instance, making

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Speaker 2: a decision that went counter do everything she wanted made

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Speaker 2: you the bad guy in that moment. But the way

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Speaker 2: you did it was.

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Speaker 1: Just say it masterful. I nailed it.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say perfection. I was going to

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Speaker 2: say perfection.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see that coming at all. I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 1: I was being up myself, and then you've gone and

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Speaker 1: proven that I should be there We go. I got

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Speaker 1: it right, like it felt right.

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Speaker 2: Not only did it feel right because of her behavior,

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Speaker 2: I was really wrestling with my own emotions around it all,

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Speaker 2: and was really struggling to be compassionate. I didn't interact

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Speaker 2: with her, but in my own personal body, I was

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Speaker 2: really wrestling.

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Speaker 1: I've got to jump in really quickly on that. Just

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Speaker 1: the word compassion, I've talked about it on the pod before.

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Speaker 1: The word compassion comes from two Latin woods that I

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Speaker 1: don't know how to say. But comm and passion com

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Speaker 1: is together in imunity, community, combination, common communicate that it's together, right,

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Speaker 1: that's calm, and passion is not actually what we think

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Speaker 1: it is get excited about something. Passion is literally to suffer.

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Speaker 1: So when you say you found it hard to be compassionate,

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Speaker 1: what you're saying is you found it hard to step

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Speaker 1: into her suffering and suffer with her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, because she had been creating so much drama in.

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Speaker 1: Our space, emotional earthquakes everywhere, and I was.

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Speaker 2: Just I was over it, and so I really let

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Speaker 2: you take the lead on this one, and you asked

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Speaker 2: me to come in and be a part of it.

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Speaker 2: And the more I sat there, the more frustrated I got.

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Speaker 2: And I was literally I was just speechless. I can't

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Speaker 2: I actually can't put into words, as I watched you

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Speaker 2: not only sit in a place of a desire to

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Speaker 2: understand where she was, but then I literally watched you

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Speaker 2: suffer with her as she just fell apart in her

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Speaker 2: desperation and need to not only be understood, but to

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Speaker 2: have what she thought she needed. And throughout the next

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Speaker 2: few days, as emotions continued to ramp in really challenging ways,

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Speaker 2: I just watched you turn toward her a time and

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Speaker 2: time again. And so when we talk about being the

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Speaker 2: bad guy, the bad guy is making hard choices, right,

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Speaker 2: that's the essence of that choice. But the way we

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Speaker 2: do it determines whether or not we're seen as the

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Speaker 2: bad guy. And what's so crazy about this is that

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Speaker 2: in every situation, you would be seen as the bad

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Speaker 2: guy because you enforced something that she didn't want you

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Speaker 2: to enforce. But she absolutely, hands down knew that you

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Speaker 2: knew that she was hurting and that you understood why

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Speaker 2: she was hurting, and she actually turned towards you as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would actually go so far as to say

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Speaker 1: that our relationship is closer now because I haven't been saying, well,

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Speaker 1: you just need to learn your lesson or I've had enough.

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Speaker 1: And that's the consequence of you not doing as you

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Speaker 1: were told. Rather, I've gone to her and held when

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Speaker 1: she's been upset and just said, I know, and it

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel fair and this is so hard, and I

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Speaker 1: love you so much. I don't want to do this either,

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Speaker 1: but here's what I'm seeing, and i'm your dad and I've.

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Speaker 2: Got to look after you.

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Speaker 1: I've got to protect you. So that's kind of been

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Speaker 1: the that's been the approach. That's been the compassion, the

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Speaker 1: suffering with kind of idea.

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Speaker 2: And while we're not out of the woods by any stretch,

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Speaker 2: come the end of the week, Sunday, we'd gone for

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Speaker 2: a walk and we came home and I saw all

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Speaker 2: of the girls, including a friend, sitting out baking in

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Speaker 2: the sun. There wasn't a screen insight.

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Speaker 1: When you say baking. It was seventeen degrees, it was freezing,

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Speaker 1: but they were enjoying being outdoors on the grass anywhere,

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Speaker 1: feeling some sunlight on their skin.

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Speaker 2: And the difference that I witnessed in that moment as

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Speaker 2: these girls just reveled in each other's company, was absolutely

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Speaker 2: it was heaven. But it was counter to anything I

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Speaker 2: think we've experienced.

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Speaker 1: That There's been more laughter in our home as we've

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Speaker 1: been increasingly screen free than I can remember in I

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Speaker 1: was going to say days, weeks, months, but maybe even years.

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Speaker 2: The level of connection. And here's the challenge. When we're

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Speaker 2: in it, we actually don't recognize and see that the

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Speaker 2: very thing we want, we're actually hindering by this tiny

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Speaker 2: little screen that's with us twenty four to seven and

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Speaker 2: is just constantly begging for our time and attention. We

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Speaker 2: don't see the other people in our space who are

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Speaker 2: begging for our time and attention.

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Speaker 1: So the take home message is it's not so much

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Speaker 1: what you do, it's how you do it. And if

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Speaker 1: you can do it with compassion, if you can step

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Speaker 1: into suffering and suffer together, you just get better outcomes.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's second take home message is that sometimes

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Speaker 1: as a parent, you do know better, and contrary to

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Speaker 1: all of the very best ideas that are out there,

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Speaker 1: sometimes you do just have to step up and say

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Speaker 1: we're going to wear this. It's going to be some

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Speaker 1: stormy weather for a few days. But if we can

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Speaker 1: do it the right way, we will get through this

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Speaker 1: and we'll be better for it.

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Speaker 2: And I think the most important thing is when we're

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Speaker 2: making these tough decisions, kind of having that emotional barometer

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Speaker 2: that says, am I coming from a place of love?

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Speaker 2: Do I have compassion in this moment? Because if you

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Speaker 2: can feel those two emotions in the very act of

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Speaker 2: doing what you need to do without anger, without you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of the intensity of all of those negative and

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Speaker 2: challenging emotions, then you can almost certainly guarantee that your

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Speaker 2: delivery is going to be a totally different experience for

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Speaker 2: both of you.

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Speaker 1: Parenting is such an adventure. We really hope that there's

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Speaker 1: some helpful ideas in today's podcast for you. We also

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Speaker 1: thank our daughter for allowing us, with permission, the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to share this element of what's been going on, because

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Speaker 1: it's a bit of an invasion of privacy for her,

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Speaker 1: but we just felt that there was so much in

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Speaker 1: what we've been experiencing that we wanted to share it.

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Speaker 1: We hope that you have a wonderful, wonderful weekend with

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Speaker 1: your family. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin

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Speaker 1: Rulan from Bridge Media. More information and resources to make

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Speaker 1: your family happier can be found at happy families dot

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Speaker 1: com dot au and remember not this Monday, but next Monday.

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Speaker 1: Parental guidance. Season three on nine