1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Daily This is the 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday, 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: the twenty sixth of February. I'm Zara Seidler. 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: I'm Billy fit Simon's. 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 2: Earlier this week, the Royal Commission on Anti Semitism and 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: Social Cohesion held its first public hearing. It follows the 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: December terrorist attack in Bondai, when fifteen innocent people were 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: killed at a Jewish community event. In today's podcast, we're 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: going to explain what a Royal commission actually is, how 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: this one came about, and what we can expect over 12 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: the coming months. 13 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: Sorry, this was a huge thing after the Bondai terror 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: attack happened, that the Prime Minister was under increasing pressure 15 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: to call a Royal commission, and it kind of became 16 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: this term that we heard so much about. But because 17 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: of how infrequent they are, Yeah, I'm not sure many 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: people know exactly what they are and why they're such 19 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: a big deal. So I think we should start there. 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: What is a Royal commission? 21 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 2: Yes, look a good starting point, because you're right, it's 22 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: one of those terms that gets used a lot, but 23 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: many of us will have never really come face to 24 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: face with one before. So a royal commission is a 25 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 2: major investigation into something of great importance to the country. Now, 26 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: royal commissions are established by a state or federal government, 27 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: but they are fully independent. It's not a court. Nobody's 28 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 2: being tried, but instead think of it as a public inquiries. 29 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 2: So in this case, the commission has strong powers to 30 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 2: compel so to ask witnesses to appear, to request information 31 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: and to consult with experts. Previously, there have been royal 32 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: commissions into things like veteran suicides and the Robodet scheme, 33 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: just being two more recent examples and to give context 34 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 2: as to what can come out of a royal commission, 35 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: the one into veterans suicide handed down its final report 36 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 2: in September twenty twenty four. It made one hundred and 37 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 2: twenty two recommendations based on what it heard during that time, 38 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: so it received more than five eight hundred public submissions, 39 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: heard from three hundred and forty witnesses and of the 40 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty two recommendations by the end of 41 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: last year, So over a year after the commission had 42 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,119 Speaker 2: handed down its final report, the government said thirty two 43 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 2: recommendations had been implemented and that they were working their 44 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: way through the rest of them. So these are huge 45 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 2: bodies of work. I mean, one hundred and twenty two 46 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 2: recommendations to a government is substantial, and they're not on 47 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 2: a light topic. These are really meaty things that need 48 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: to be changed. So then if we fast forward to 49 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: this specific one, this inquiry is into anti Semitism and 50 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 2: social cohesion. As we said, it follows the Bondai terrorists 51 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: and it will be led by former High Court Justice 52 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 2: Virginia Bell, who was a Federal High Court justice from 53 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 2: twenty and nine to twenty twenty one. 54 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: And this was such a big deal when Prime Minister 55 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: Anthony Albanzi called the Royal commission, because I mean, it's 56 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: easy to forget now, but there was a period of 57 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: a few weeks there where there was mounting pressure and 58 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: initially he resisted the calls because I think he said 59 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: that it would be too expensive or it would take 60 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: too much time. 61 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he resisted calling a Royal commission for I 62 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: guess a few main reasons. You're right that the time 63 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: was the biggest one. He said he didn't want to 64 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: delay action on the matter of anti Semitism and his government. 65 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: They outlined four key ways that they would deal with 66 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: it in the immediate sense, but you're right that pressure 67 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: just kept mounting. It started with an open letter from 68 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: the families of victims who were killed in that terrorist attack, 69 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: but it really grew to something much much bigger, and 70 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: parts of them, you know, the political class. It felt 71 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: like there were calls from everywhere. And then after the 72 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 2: summer holiday break, Anthony Albanezi did get up and say yes, 73 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: we will run this Royal Commission, and the announced Virginia 74 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: bell as the commissioner, and just a month later we 75 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 2: are already into the hearings. 76 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: Okay, before we get to what is happening in the 77 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: hearings this week and in the coming months, here is 78 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: a quick message from today's sponsor, Okay Zara. So, as 79 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: you said, it's only a month between when Prime Minister 80 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: Anthony ALBERNISI announce the Royal Commission and when the first 81 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: public hearing is, which I have found quite surprising because, 82 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: like you said, one of the big hesitations was just 83 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: how long royal commissions take. So how has it happened 84 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: so quick? 85 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: You're right that it usually does take a bit longer. 86 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: If we're to use the example of the Veterans' Suicide 87 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: Royal Commission again. That inquiry was established in July twenty 88 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: twenty one. It had its first opening hearing at the 89 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: end of November that year, so I'm not good at 90 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 2: maths a few months down the track, and then handed 91 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 2: down its final report in September twenty twenty four, three 92 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 2: years after it was created. So that's that one to 93 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: give you a sense of how quick this is going 94 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 2: to go. The Royal Commissioner in the Anti Semitism Inquiry 95 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 2: has been told that she needs to hand down an 96 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: interim report by. 97 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: April this year, so in two months. 98 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: Yep, in two months, and the final report needs to 99 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 2: be handed down by the fourteenth of December, which is 100 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: the one year anniversary of the terrorist attack. So the 101 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 2: entire scope of this Royal Commission has been almost shrunk 102 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: and has been shortened because there is this real public 103 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: need for fast action. And that's what Anthony Alberniez he said. 104 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 2: He said he doesn't want to draw this out. He 105 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: wants there to be answers now. Given it was the 106 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 2: worst terrorist attack that has ever occurred on Australian soil, 107 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 2: and so the hearings have started much quicker than they 108 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: would have ordinarily. 109 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: And we mentioned that one concern previously was the cost 110 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: of it. Do we know now how much it will cost? 111 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 2: We know from Senate estimates that the government's allocated around 112 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty million dollars for this. Obviously that 113 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 2: can blow out if things take longer, or you know, 114 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 2: can be reduced if it's shorter. But that's how much 115 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 2: they're earmarking for this Royal Commission. 116 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: And so it has started this week, but then it's 117 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 1: going to go on for another few months. Yeah, what 118 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: can we expect from it? For example, do we know 119 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: who we will hear from? 120 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 2: We don't know exactly who we will hear from. I 121 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: was listening in to the commissioner as she opened the 122 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 2: Royal Commission. It's being live streamed. If anyone's interested, you 123 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: can all listen to it yourselves. It's on YouTube. But 124 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 2: she was saying, and then certainly the lawyer that followed 125 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: up was saying that they want to hear from a 126 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 2: range of stakeholders. They want this to be as inclusive 127 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 2: as possible. But that's something that is very important, is 128 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: to hear the lived experience of Jewish Australians who were 129 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: targeted in that anti Semitic attack. That fits with what 130 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: we understand the Commission will be looking at. So in 131 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 2: any Royal commission, there is something called terms of reference, 132 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,559 Speaker 2: which basically is just the breakdown of what they plan 133 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 2: to cover. And for the terms of reference here, we 134 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: know that they are mostly dealing with anti semitism, things 135 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 2: like what are the key drivers of it, what's the 136 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: prevalence of it. We don't have very good understanding in 137 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 2: the country about what does count as antisemitism and what doesn't, 138 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: for example, so it's going to focus on that. It's 139 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: also going to focus on how the government and other institutions, 140 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,559 Speaker 2: cultural institutions for example, can respond to antisemitism. It's also 141 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: going to look into the circumstances that led to that 142 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: terrorist attack, So what were the intelligence agencies to know, 143 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 2: what did they not know, what were the gaps? And 144 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: hopefully the idea is to stop something like that ever 145 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: occurring again. I will just finish though by saying it's 146 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 2: very important to highlight that there is a criminal case 147 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: currently underway for one of those alleged gunmen who didn't die. 148 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 2: The other one, the father did die, but he appeared 149 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: in court for the first time earlier this month and 150 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 2: that trial is happening almost in parallel to this Royal Commission, 151 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: and so it's very important. And the Commissioner made clear 152 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 2: that this Royal Commission cannot prejudice that case. They cannot 153 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: have anything that would affect justice being played out in 154 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 2: a criminal court, which is kind of challenging because they 155 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: have to interrogate what actually happened as part of what 156 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 2: they're looking into. So that was one of the hesitations 157 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: when it came to this Royal Commission, but we do 158 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: know that they are very aware of it obviously and 159 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: will do everything they can not to influence that case. 160 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: And just quickly before we go, it's a Royal Commission 161 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: into anti Semitism and social cohesion. What does the social 162 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: cohesion part of it mean? 163 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: So what we understand from the terms of reference is 164 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 2: that social cohesion is a reference to how our democracy 165 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: is functioning, how the rule of law is being upheld, 166 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: and how this multicultural country is operating. Virginia Bell in 167 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 2: her opening statement, did reference the fact that there are 168 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 2: other hatreds that exist in Australia, but she said that 169 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 2: given what happened in December. The primary focus here would 170 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 2: be on anti Semitism. 171 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: It will be something that we will be hearing a 172 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: lot about in the coming months. Thank you for taking 173 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: us through that, and thank you so much for listening 174 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: to this episode of The Daily Oz. We'll be back 175 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: later today with your evening headlines, but until then, we 176 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: hope you have a great day. My name is Lily 177 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: Madden and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung Kalkutin woman from 178 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: Gadighl country. The Daily Oz acknowledges that this podcast is 179 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays 180 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. 181 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 182 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 1: both past and present.