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Speaker 1: You value your time pretty highly, right, That's part of

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Speaker 1: where you listen to how I work. You're trying to

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Speaker 1: get the most out of what precious time you have,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a matter of getting more done when you're

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Speaker 1: in the office or freeing yourself from distraction when you're

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Speaker 1: with your family. So you'd hope others value your time

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Speaker 1: just as much, and therefore you need to show others

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Speaker 1: how much you value their time, especially if you're hoping

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Speaker 1: to use some of it. This is the underlying principle

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Speaker 1: in all of Accessibility Advocate Janis Linz's cold reach outs.

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Speaker 1: Whether she's writing a letter to the queen or trying

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Speaker 1: to sort out her phone bill, Janie knows people want

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Speaker 1: to protect their time, and this is where the rule

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Speaker 1: of fors come into play. So what is the rule

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Speaker 1: of for and what makes it so powerful? My name

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Speaker 1: is doctor amanthe Immer. I'm an organized national psychologist and

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Speaker 1: the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is

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Speaker 1: how I work, a show about how to help you

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Speaker 1: do your best work. On today's My Favorite Tip episode,

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Speaker 1: we go back to an interview from the past and

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Speaker 1: I pick out my favorite tip from the interview. In

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Speaker 1: today's show, I speak with Janis Lyntz, and this extract

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Speaker 1: starts with me asking Janis about an important rule she

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Speaker 1: learned from the late legendary activist Vernon Jordan.

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Speaker 2: Well, he was amazing. I was looking for his support

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Speaker 2: for an appointment, and I knew he was connected to

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Speaker 2: someone in the White House, and so I reached out

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Speaker 2: to him. And when I don't receive an I don't

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Speaker 2: expect always to receive a response right away. And it

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Speaker 2: took four responses with him, and when he met me,

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Speaker 2: he said, he brings this first, you said. You know,

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Speaker 2: I want you to know the reason I met you

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Speaker 2: is because you follow it up. I have a rule

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Speaker 2: that I usually don't see people or meet with them

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Speaker 2: for at least unless they contact me at least four times,

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Speaker 2: because if it's not worth your time, it's not worth

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Speaker 2: my time to meet with you. And I thought, wow,

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Speaker 2: you know there's times you wonder if that rule exists.

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Speaker 2: But he actually told me that, and it was one

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Speaker 2: of the most invaluable lessons. I mean it was because

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Speaker 2: I realized other people.

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Speaker 1: Maybe doing this and you know, may not be.

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Speaker 2: As overt about it, but he was right, and I

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Speaker 2: actually implemented that rule myself, like, if people want to

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Speaker 2: meet with me, I let them follow up. I don't

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Speaker 2: because if it's not worth their time, it's not worth

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Speaker 2: my time. And I am amazed how many people do

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Speaker 2: not follow up. I mean people always ask me my

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Speaker 2: secret sauce for success. I would say ninety nine percent

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Speaker 2: of it is I follow up. It's that simple. What

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Speaker 2: the is to say? You know, it's like tennis and golf,

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Speaker 2: it's only in the follow up.

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Speaker 1: And what are your rules about following up? Like there

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Speaker 1: are a certain number of times you'll do it? What's

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Speaker 1: your frequency? What does that look like?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I have no end.

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Speaker 1: So and there.

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Speaker 2: So you know, not everybody is so happy and willing

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Speaker 2: to receive my contact, right. There are some people who

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Speaker 2: are grateful, many people who are grateful, and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: thank you for telling us that our sign is wrong

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Speaker 2: or that like we can do better.

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Speaker 1: We you know.

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Speaker 2: It is really actually interesting to see the differences between

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Speaker 2: companies and their reactions. Some companies their goal is to

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Speaker 2: always get it right and do better, and you can

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Speaker 2: see that in the way the companies run and the

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Speaker 2: culture of that company. And then the companies that people

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Speaker 2: have a bad reputation. You see that in the reaction

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Speaker 2: into my emails, right.

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Speaker 1: It's consistent.

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Speaker 2: So those companies that don't follow up, and they go

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Speaker 2: well past the floor. In fact, sometimes it could go

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Speaker 2: well into the fifties, and I'll start at some point

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Speaker 2: numbering them. And you know, then there are the companies

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Speaker 2: where they just or government agencies they just don't follow up.

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Speaker 2: I mean the Trump's Apprentice was one of them, and

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Speaker 2: I sent them a phone blog. So I maintained something

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Speaker 2: called a phone log.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me about your fine lug?

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Speaker 2: Yes? And it's been written about and it's pretty in

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Speaker 2: the disability community. It's well known. No, and it's actually

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Speaker 2: funny at this point. So when I start a project,

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Speaker 2: I have a horrible memory, horrible and I can't remember

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Speaker 2: who I spoke to last you know, when you call

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Speaker 2: like the bank, and they'll say to you, like, well,

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Speaker 2: who'd you speak to last time when you called? And

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Speaker 2: you're like, really, do you think I possibly remember that? Well?

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Speaker 2: I actually do, because I write it down. So when

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Speaker 2: I start any project, I have a phone log for

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Speaker 2: that project. And I do this, by the way, for

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Speaker 2: my bank, because I decided my bank is keeping track

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Speaker 2: of me I'm keeping track of them. So I start

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Speaker 2: with let's say a project. Let's say the Trump's Apprentice, right,

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Speaker 2: and I'll say Trump's Apprentice at the hung And there

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Speaker 2: might be a point where I might break up the

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Speaker 2: log based on different companies, right, because you could have

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Speaker 2: NBC and you could have the production company. But in

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Speaker 2: one particular instance was the National Parks, where I was

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Speaker 2: trying to fix Ellis Island in the National Parks and

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Speaker 2: fix their access for hearing people with hearing loss. And

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Speaker 2: at some point, like with all the emails, the phone calls,

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Speaker 2: the meetings in person, this is presum I had seventeen

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Speaker 2: pages of phone blocks. Wow, now that's inane, and I

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Speaker 2: will tell you it's gotten like worse. And I just

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Speaker 2: sent it again to the new Secretary of Interio and

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Speaker 2: I will now send her this recording. So I sent

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Speaker 2: the former Secretary of Interior when my daughter was having

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Speaker 2: a school trip to Ellis Island, saying I have done

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Speaker 2: all these things. And you could say I contacted someone

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Speaker 2: a lot, right, and they're like, well what does that mean? Right?

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Speaker 2: You need data? So I basically am creating data by

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Speaker 2: sending them a phone law with every person I contacted

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Speaker 2: a summary of the conversation. Who I spoke with, their position,

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Speaker 2: their phone number, the date I spoke, and then what

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Speaker 2: the next follow up is and then what happens after.

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Speaker 2: And I sent that and apparent with scheduling request asking

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Speaker 2: for a meeting, and apparently the Secretary of Interior was

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Speaker 2: fored by that request, as they should be, and I

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Speaker 2: received a phone call asking for me to come to Washington,

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Speaker 2: of course at my own expense, and was asked to

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Speaker 2: help brate the National Park Service Guidelines as a result

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Speaker 2: of that, because it was clear there was a breakdown

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Speaker 2: in what people understood or hearing access was and what

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Speaker 2: was being implemented. And we did, and we wrote the

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Speaker 2: National Park Service Guidelines.

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Speaker 1: So I wonder if there is something that you're trying

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Speaker 1: to achieve in your work life this week where the

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Speaker 1: rule of wors might come into play. Well, maybe you're

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Speaker 1: just feeling inspired to start a phonelogue like Janis did,

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Speaker 1: if you're looking for more tips to improve the way

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Speaker 1: that you work. I write a short fortnightly newsletter that

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Speaker 1: contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me

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Speaker 1: work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving

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Speaker 1: throughly interesting research findings. You can sign up for that

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Speaker 1: at Howiwork dot code. That's how I Work dot C.

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Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by Inventium with production support

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Speaker 1: from Dead Set Studios. And thank you to Matt Nimba

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Speaker 1: who does the audio mix for every episode and makes

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Speaker 1: everything sound so much better than it would have otherwise.

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Speaker 1: See you next time.