Speaker 1: Laura, come on, oh my girls, Savay Thursday.
Speaker 2: How you feeling?
Speaker 3: No reason? I'm excited for me?
Speaker 1: No, no, So we're showing the girls my rehearsal footage
Speaker 1: because tonight I am on stage at the Lyric Theater
Speaker 1: in Sydney. I am going to be in and Juliet.
Speaker 1: It's the talk of the town. Everyone's talking.
Speaker 4: You're going to be amazing, You're going to be so good.
Speaker 4: You have a proper speaking line.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm feeling I might improvise it. I
Speaker 1: might just speak out into the audience.
Speaker 2: Is your part?
Speaker 5: Surely you know if it's all right.
Speaker 2: Here's some context. So I was talking to Rob Meals.
Speaker 1: I've studied acting, and Rob was like, oh god, you'd
Speaker 1: be good in n Juliet the stage play. It's got
Speaker 1: Rob Meals Casey Donovan, and I was like, I'd love
Speaker 1: to be in the show. He went back spoke to
Speaker 1: the uses of the show and now tonight I have
Speaker 1: a role in the show.
Speaker 5: But what's what's the role? Do you know what you're
Speaker 5: actually doing?
Speaker 6: At you?
Speaker 4: Because you sound like a kid in a pantomime. I've
Speaker 4: got a roll Mummy and I get to be exactly the.
Speaker 1: Tree tonight in Angeliotte I have I've got a roll
Speaker 1: your tree, and now I'm a performer. I've got to costume.
Speaker 1: My character's name is Othello. It's a shakespeare In classic.
Speaker 1: It's a take on Romeo.
Speaker 5: Fellow is not a small role.
Speaker 1: I'm not playing the actual Othello. I've just taken that name.
Speaker 1: They said take name, So I have a fellow. I
Speaker 1: am dancing, I've got choreography. I'man in the opening scene,
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle, and I get to come on
Speaker 1: for final bows at the end.
Speaker 5: But do you have dialogue?
Speaker 3: You're not answering the question.
Speaker 2: Nothing that's been written.
Speaker 4: Okay, so you're you're dialogueing with your face. It's an expression.
Speaker 4: Acting is what you do with your body. Absolutely the audience.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna show you my choreography.
Speaker 3: Are you wearing You're hard underneath as well?
Speaker 2: Just a velvet track?
Speaker 6: Two?
Speaker 5: All right, this is your the big performance? All right?
Speaker 6: Three two. It starts from five fine, five six, I've
Speaker 6: got it five six seven.
Speaker 3: Eight is an audio medium. I'm not sure if you're
Speaker 3: aware of that.
Speaker 6: Man just doing some sidestep jumps. He's got spirit figures,
Speaker 6: claps and claps he's.
Speaker 4: Got his eyes closed as well. You might want to
Speaker 4: open them on stage.
Speaker 5: Playing the piano now he's having a seizure, do you know.
Speaker 4: I do think that maybe people like the people who
Speaker 4: were on stage might want to warn the audience that
Speaker 4: they've got someone in.
Speaker 3: There who's not as well practiced. Just in case.
Speaker 4: It's stands Braty Donovan's been to school. I meant you, Oh,
Speaker 4: Mitch Casey Donald's. I've been to see it. She was
Speaker 4: exceptional and if you.
Speaker 2: See it tonight at the Sydney Lyric Theater, I'll be.
Speaker 3: There her very own Mitch Jury.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got to pick up show to get through today.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we do.
Speaker 6: We've got a big ask on cut today. It's something
Speaker 6: we do every Thursday. How long can you wait for
Speaker 6: the big proposal? That's the question today? And I'm not
Speaker 6: asking for me.
Speaker 3: Someone that this is coming from within the house.
Speaker 2: Someone wrote this is we been from Europe.
Speaker 1: We will discuss that next on the pickup stand by,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. It's a Thursday, meaning we have
Speaker 1: to do this ask.
Speaker 5: Every Thursday. We do this here.
Speaker 6: On our podcast Life and Cup podcast, but on the
Speaker 6: pickup too. It's our favorite segment. We call it Therapy Thursday.
Speaker 6: You guys call in with your biggest, darkest, biggest hardest
Speaker 6: predicaments that.
Speaker 5: No one can ever possibly answer.
Speaker 6: Bigger Mitch, Britain, Laura, Like, the only people that can
Speaker 6: ever answer these questions are us?
Speaker 4: Do any of us have any qualifications? Because I'm pretty
Speaker 4: sure the answer to that is.
Speaker 5: Nos, qualifications, but none relating to this.
Speaker 2: We're as in Bridgington.
Speaker 1: You can also text us if you've got an asking
Speaker 1: card for nine nine four four one six five today though,
Speaker 1: Georgia is on the line.
Speaker 2: Hey Georgia, what's your.
Speaker 4: Hi?
Speaker 7: Guys, I need some advice. So with my partner for
Speaker 7: eight years and like we both keep talking about like
Speaker 7: marriage and like having kids and like a house and stuff,
Speaker 7: but like it's actually like not happening. Want to like yeah,
Speaker 7: I just it's gone to a point where I'm like
Speaker 7: I don't know how to bring it up and like
Speaker 7: how do I do that in a way that's like
Speaker 7: come on? But like also, like, gentle.
Speaker 3: Georgia, how old are you? If you don't mind me asking,
Speaker 3: I'm twenty eight, twenty eight, okay.
Speaker 4: See, I think that the age changes things a little
Speaker 4: bit because if you were, say thirty eight, and you
Speaker 4: were like, you know, I need to think about my fertility.
Speaker 4: I need to think about like you know, how much
Speaker 4: time I have left on the clock. Then I would
Speaker 4: be like, okay, these conversations need to be happening, like
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 3: But being twenty eight, he probably is like, why are
Speaker 3: we rushing? We've got all this time.
Speaker 1: It's not young, I'm twenty eight. It's a slippery slope
Speaker 1: to thirty twenty eight.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, you're definitely heading towards it.
Speaker 2: We're not there yet, but we're not twenty two twenty eight.
Speaker 6: Guys, you're talking to someone here in the room that
Speaker 6: is thirty six, that it is not engauged, not married,
Speaker 6: doesn't have kids, Like it's okay.
Speaker 5: The problem here isn't the age. It's got nothing to
Speaker 5: do with age.
Speaker 6: The problem here is she's committed eight years, they've had
Speaker 6: the discussions, and he's not coming to the table when
Speaker 6: you ask, like, when you say talk about it, we
Speaker 6: talk about the kids in the future, do you talk
Speaker 6: about it a bit more specifically Georgia, as in, like,
Speaker 6: you know, we maybe want to try for kids by
Speaker 6: by thirty two, or like, is it ever an age
Speaker 6: that you're working towards.
Speaker 7: Well, I'd love for it to happen after we get married,
Speaker 7: because I want to look snatched obviously, like on the
Speaker 7: day it does expect and like and the biological clock thing,
Speaker 7: like you know, it's modern metacy exists, just like we're
Speaker 7: talking about it. I don't want to say a deadline
Speaker 7: because I feel like that's very much like type A.
Speaker 5: But like I happened, that's how you work towards something.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I feel like, hey, if we want kids by
Speaker 6: like about thirty two, you know that's going to take
Speaker 6: a year or so to get that going. And I
Speaker 6: don't want I want to get married first, So that
Speaker 6: means we've got to get married in two years, which
Speaker 6: means usually have a year proposal, So we need to
Speaker 6: get married next year.
Speaker 4: And I agree with you, Britt, like I think that
Speaker 4: there has to be the reason why. I say, like,
Speaker 4: in terms of timelines, you can talk about these big
Speaker 4: arbitrary things like getting engaged, having babies, like, but they
Speaker 4: they can be very far in the future. So if
Speaker 4: you haven't spoken about timelines at all, but you've talked
Speaker 4: about the things you want to do, your timelines might
Speaker 4: not match up.
Speaker 2: At all.
Speaker 4: He might go, oh, yeah, I do want to get married,
Speaker 4: I do want to have babies, but I don't want
Speaker 4: to do that for ten years and then you will
Speaker 4: be on very different pages. So I think, like if
Speaker 4: I was you, I'd be having that conversation about Okay,
Speaker 4: I know we've talked about these things, but when do
Speaker 4: you see it happening?
Speaker 3: And don't worry about being like that being type A.
Speaker 4: I think that's a normal conversation to have with your
Speaker 4: partner after a year, just.
Speaker 1: Scared and just start getting pamphlets from I don't know
Speaker 1: baby shops and putting them on the table.
Speaker 3: How long until you want this to happen? Like are
Speaker 3: you wanting this now?
Speaker 7: Like I'd love like an engagement right now, but I'm
Speaker 7: just like, you know, I want to be chill girl
Speaker 7: about it.
Speaker 3: No deep okay, chill girl gets you nowhere.
Speaker 2: Chill girl and type A girl not the same girl.
Speaker 2: Very different guys.
Speaker 6: I've been with my partner Ben for a year and
Speaker 6: a half and I'm not chill like and it's only
Speaker 6: a year and a half.
Speaker 3: You've been with him eight years.
Speaker 6: I think if you know what you want and both
Speaker 6: of you know you working towards the right thing. It's
Speaker 6: okay to say, hey, like, when do you see this
Speaker 6: not happenings in like the day, but when do you
Speaker 6: see all of the future events unraveling.
Speaker 2: That conversation with Ben, what's he said?
Speaker 5: I was like, mate, pick up the pace.
Speaker 2: Also, it's only been a year and a half for
Speaker 2: you two though you don't got nothing.
Speaker 6: It is. But I also and hears me sharing too much,
Speaker 6: But I also want to very personal choice. I want
Speaker 6: to get married before I have kids. I also know
Speaker 6: I'm thirty six and I most likely have to do IBF.
Speaker 4: So you do the math, so I know. But this
Speaker 4: is exactly what I mean by age does count. And
Speaker 4: that's why as you get older, having those conversations sooner
Speaker 4: is really important. And when you're twenty eight you've got
Speaker 4: a little bit more opportunity. But I think it comes
Speaker 4: a point where you can't be the cool girl in
Speaker 4: life and you have to have some hard conversations.
Speaker 2: Cool, okay, good luck?
Speaker 5: Yeah, call us back. When he proposes, thank you.
Speaker 1: Upset, she's like, you guys, help me with nothing. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a tough one o four nine nine four four
Speaker 1: one oh six five. If you've got a question. You
Speaker 1: can also remain anonymous.
Speaker 2: Hit U up. We'll get you on the show. All right. Next,
Speaker 2: the name that Amazon has killed.
Speaker 1: There is one name in this world that in the
Speaker 1: eighties and the nineties was almost the most popular name
Speaker 1: on planet Earth. Now all thanks to Amazon, it doesn't
Speaker 1: even exist.
Speaker 3: Is it Amazon?
Speaker 5: Is it Prime?
Speaker 1: That's a really shortlist, so let's not play this game break. Hey,
Speaker 1: if you're tuning in and your name is also Alexa,
Speaker 1: you are a rare jem because this study today has
Speaker 1: come out to say that ever since Amazon released the
Speaker 1: Alexa in twenty thirteen, the name essentially died.
Speaker 2: There's this graph that's going viral.
Speaker 1: You can see from nineteen eighty onwards, there's roughly two
Speaker 1: thousand almost to the mid two thousands. Two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: it peaks six thousand people in America named Alexa. And
Speaker 1: then in twenty thirteen, when it dies, when the Amazon's released,
Speaker 1: the name dead, No moral Alexus plummet.
Speaker 5: I feel sorry for people who are named Alexa.
Speaker 4: Imagine walking into room or just being in an office
Speaker 4: doing some work and someone's like hey Alexa, and you're like, yep, yeah,
Speaker 4: not talking about to live with that the rest of
Speaker 4: your life.
Speaker 1: And everyone hates Alexa too. SII is better than Alexir
Speaker 1: in my opinion. So like Siri would be kind of
Speaker 1: cool because it's Apple and it's chic, but Alexa is.
Speaker 5: What about Suri? Cruise to cruise kid.
Speaker 2: That's what's story.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit different.
Speaker 5: It sounds like, hey, sire, but do you know what.
Speaker 2: I don't have an Alexir in my life. Do you
Speaker 2: have an Elexra?
Speaker 5: I have an Alexro in my life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, a person or a robot both.
Speaker 3: I was like, do you turn your light someone you
Speaker 3: come home from? I know I have both.
Speaker 5: I have both.
Speaker 6: But it's funny how something can ruin something for you,
Speaker 6: Like I, I used to love the name.
Speaker 5: This is a little bit different. Me's sorry, bear with me,
Speaker 5: but I still love.
Speaker 3: The name Lana.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And then and then Too Hot to Handle came out,
Speaker 6: which is like that show that just took off, and
Speaker 6: the little robot that owns that whole show name is Lana,
Speaker 6: which is anal backwards.
Speaker 5: That's why the show did it.
Speaker 4: I honestly, it was like I was just about to say,
Speaker 4: have a think about what that word is backwards? And
Speaker 4: I know a Lana, and she once said to me,
Speaker 4: A very easy way of remembering this is is imagine
Speaker 4: spelling your backwards and then you'll get it. My name
Speaker 4: that I think has been ruined, and I would say
Speaker 4: that anyone who's named this name across the country would agree. Karen,
Speaker 4: and I feel sorry for all the Karens out there
Speaker 4: who are in fact Karen's, but now they are like
Speaker 4: the base, the ground zero of an ongoing meme that
Speaker 4: they can never escape from.
Speaker 1: I went to school with a Stormy and in high
Speaker 1: school she was so cool. She was imagine having the
Speaker 1: name Stormy. It's x men great now not great now? Ever,
Speaker 1: since the Trump scandal with Stormy Daniels, it's not great.
Speaker 1: So I really feel for Stormy. That killed her name Aura.
Speaker 6: That's also Kylie Jenna's kids name, yes, which makes it
Speaker 6: cool again, I don't think so.
Speaker 4: Okay, I've got another one for you, Naomi. Backwards is
Speaker 4: I moan, that's ruined it for everyone? Now?
Speaker 2: Don't very different to the Amazon situation. You two will
Speaker 2: playing a Hangman over. Oh God, here we go. Ben Backwards,
Speaker 2: that's poo poo. I' you're insane, I moan.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's all I can think of.
Speaker 5: I'm I, for one, but it's not a baby name.
Speaker 2: Neither is Karen or isn't it?
Speaker 6: But when when COVID happened, like the whole pandemic shares
Speaker 6: in Corona, like because it's coronavirus shares in Corona, the
Speaker 6: beer like plummeted. I think they lost like half their
Speaker 6: stocks because COVID Corona.
Speaker 2: There is this guy.
Speaker 5: We really got off track now we're talking about beer.
Speaker 5: When names ruined things for people? But I've just gone
Speaker 5: a bit haywife.
Speaker 4: I would say that most most people would sympathize with
Speaker 4: like their ex's name. So like, if you know, for
Speaker 4: me any of my exes names, those names have been
Speaker 4: ruined for me.
Speaker 5: Now, so every time I hear the name, I'm like, expert.
Speaker 6: You're also talking to someone whose name is a condiment.
Speaker 5: Like my middle name is Mayo.
Speaker 6: Yeah that's all you may Yeah, it's Mayo is my name,
Speaker 6: and it hasn't, to be fair, has not ruined.
Speaker 2: Name's my favorite ever since you became famous. Mayo shares plummeted. Yeah,
Speaker 2: no one's buying helpings. Oh well, you guys can make
Speaker 2: jokes and all of a sudden I say.
Speaker 4: Something funny one, Oh what Laurence called us?
Speaker 1: Lauren has just happened to use your name in your
Speaker 1: life that you're you're not onto anymore.
Speaker 7: Yeah. Look, so I was with.
Speaker 8: My ex partner for over ten years and we were
Speaker 8: engaged to be married. So of course when you're engaged
Speaker 8: and you've got to be married, you start thinking about
Speaker 8: babies of all these things. And we had a name
Speaker 8: chosen out. We both loved the name Charlie for a girl. Yeah,
Speaker 8: Charlie's brand then, Yes, gorgeous name. Well I used to
Speaker 8: think that until he left me for a Charlie.
Speaker 5: Oh if that wasn't so bad, it'd be funny.
Speaker 8: Absolute dog of a thing.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And his name is ruined too.
Speaker 2: That was Adam Lauren.
Speaker 8: Absolutely, his name is Josh, and.
Speaker 2: What's Josh backwards? Wow.
Speaker 4: Look, there's one thing that you can rely on us
Speaker 4: for here at the pickup, and that is bringing you
Speaker 4: the cold, hard facts, the truth and putting to bed
Speaker 4: all the rumors people would believe.
Speaker 3: I know, what have you told us me?
Speaker 1: Well, Tracy Grimshaw sent message she's impressed with their current
Speaker 1: affair style broadcasts.
Speaker 4: Well, look, there's one thing that so many of us
Speaker 4: have been doing for so many years now, and that
Speaker 4: is the five second rule. How do you feel about
Speaker 4: eating things that have fallen on the floor, Mitch, I'm.
Speaker 2: All for it. If my floor my house is clean.
Speaker 2: I don't got problems. I clean my florce.
Speaker 4: Does it not depend on where it is? I feel
Speaker 4: like the five second rule, it's a five second rule
Speaker 4: regardless of location. That's the whole point of it being
Speaker 4: the five second rule.
Speaker 1: Listen, if it's a cookie, it can sit on the
Speaker 1: on the ground for a month and I'll still eat it.
Speaker 1: If it's a fish filling, I'll probably dust it off,
Speaker 1: but I will still eat it.
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, I just know too much.
Speaker 5: I know what's on the ground.
Speaker 6: I don't know too much, just like like I know
Speaker 6: the germs just from working in a hospital and the
Speaker 6: stuff you can pick up on your feet, and it's
Speaker 6: actually if you knew, it's so rank having said that
Speaker 6: something has dropped on the ground for a split second,
Speaker 6: even though I know if it's delicious, I'll still.
Speaker 5: Pick it up.
Speaker 4: Well, it's definitely the smart one o the two of you.
Speaker 4: Because so doctor Wendy le Brett has come out and
Speaker 4: she has said officially, she's a gast entrologist entrologist, and
Speaker 4: she has said, unfortunately, the five second rule is a
Speaker 4: complete myth. And now, if you are somebody who is
Speaker 4: okay with eating their food off the ground, even if
Speaker 4: it's just touched it for a brief second, you are
Speaker 4: exposing yourself to bacteria such as Salmonella E. Coli, which
Speaker 4: is just another nice word for poo, listeria, and fecal matter.
Speaker 3: That's what you're getting. You're getting more pooh, there's.
Speaker 2: A lot of pooh.
Speaker 3: Just what's happening within five seconds?
Speaker 2: I have eaten on the floor many times, and I'm healthier.
Speaker 2: You're a lot of work done. I'm never sick. My
Speaker 2: doctor says to me, they're shocked at how healthy I am.
Speaker 2: Everything I put in my.
Speaker 5: No one has ever said that to you.
Speaker 2: My GPE says, I'm shocked.
Speaker 5: Okay, And my fan, I'm shot off the full stop.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: That's my hearing is poor.
Speaker 4: The thing that's more shocking about this is where did
Speaker 4: this ever start? Like who started this rule? And why
Speaker 4: is it internationally known as the five second rule?
Speaker 6: We made it up for kids drop that shit all
Speaker 6: the time, like five second olds fine, pick it up.
Speaker 4: Oh no, his little history lesson for you. Apparently there's
Speaker 4: two theories behind it. Apparently Ganghis Khan, who was the
Speaker 4: Mongol ruler. Apparently he had a rule where if anybody
Speaker 4: dropped anything on the floor, no food could be wasted.
Speaker 4: So they had to eat the food that was on
Speaker 4: the floor during their big banquets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: He also would women and children.
Speaker 5: I don't know if we drop that and then pick up.
Speaker 4: And also TV personality Julia Child, she dropped a pancake
Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty and said, oh, it's still good.
Speaker 3: This is like live on TV.
Speaker 4: She said it's still good to eat, and she picked
Speaker 4: it up and continued to eat it. I mean the
Speaker 4: floor a live cooking show. So it could have been
Speaker 4: Ganghis Khan or Julie Charter. We're not sure.
Speaker 2: Two evils, nonetheless, very similar in power.
Speaker 6: The floor in here is pretty grossmus if you're seen,
Speaker 6: if we dropped a piece of sushi or something on here, you.
Speaker 4: Doesn't matter to you whether it's a wet food or
Speaker 4: a dry food, because I think that the consistency does
Speaker 4: change things.
Speaker 1: Because if I dropped a vanilla slice on carpet, you
Speaker 1: pull up that custard side and it is riddled with
Speaker 1: fibers that I don't want to eat and pooin.
Speaker 5: Okay, let's let's start this off. Here's some nuts. I'm
Speaker 5: going to throw these on the floor over you dodge
Speaker 5: your head.
Speaker 3: We want to know, like where you're limited on the ground.
Speaker 2: That's an eclipse breath mint. Yeah, put on the ground,
Speaker 2: you guys thought, just because this is radio, we could.
Speaker 4: Put it on the ground the game barking orders of
Speaker 4: me Genghis can.
Speaker 5: Now roll it around, to roll it around.
Speaker 6: A bit five and pick it up and suck it.
Speaker 5: You suck it it.
Speaker 3: There was a hair on it that was the longest gross.
Speaker 1: Oh come on, let me tell you guys. We're appealing
Speaker 1: to the Australian public here. They're listening going. Times are tough.
Speaker 1: Can barely afford my mortgage if I dropped roast chicken
Speaker 1: on the floor.
Speaker 5: See the cockroaches bag hanging out of your mouth, your.
Speaker 2: Loves to morney on the phone, I.
Speaker 4: Don't even start. What about this lovely piece of sushi.
Speaker 2: That's just a lemon slice.
Speaker 4: You can't keep left from my sushi? Dropped lemon slice
Speaker 4: on the ground.
Speaker 2: I've got a breath men in my mouth. Nice, I'm
Speaker 2: not doing it.
Speaker 3: No, you're not going to do it. For the five second, really,
Speaker 3: you're not going to do it because.
Speaker 5: I'm not trouble putting a sushi on the floor of
Speaker 5: the radio.
Speaker 2: We don't want to. We don't want to destroy the
Speaker 2: radio station.
Speaker 4: I don't believe you, Mitch. I feel like there's got
Speaker 4: to be something. There's got to be a line, and
Speaker 4: there's a line for everyone.
Speaker 5: Okay, Mitch, can I ask you one more thing?
Speaker 2: Hit me?
Speaker 6: Can you please get down on all fours and lick
Speaker 6: the ground to prove that you would eat something wet
Speaker 6: off there, because it's the same thing.
Speaker 1: Everyone in this whole building just looked at you like
Speaker 1: this isn't some hazing you too?
Speaker 5: Do you think it's okay to eat things off the ground?
Speaker 6: We don't.
Speaker 5: We can't, unfortunately putthing wet on the ground. Can you
Speaker 5: give a quick lick, little one like.
Speaker 2: You're too out of touch?
Speaker 3: Can you do it?
Speaker 2: Just you know what Britta law are for it? Because
Speaker 2: you go to their house. Marble everywhere it's marble. Stop marble.
Speaker 2: Actually yours a gold player to Brits. If I got it,
Speaker 2: if I drops. I actually make money. You're an idiot.
Speaker 5: He's trying to because he doesn't want to lick the floor.
Speaker 5: He's deflected.
Speaker 4: Also, we really really okay standing all falls down, he's
Speaker 4: licking it.
Speaker 3: What it tastes like?
Speaker 7: Who?
Speaker 2: Our life? It actually very savory. I don't think the
Speaker 2: floor is supposed to take out of shape. You're disgusted,
Speaker 2: all right, let's go hard.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry that we made you do that.
Speaker 5: I'm not.
Speaker 4: But also it's a really important thing everyone. We probably
Speaker 4: should stop eating things off the floor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good, per say, or keep going and be healthy. Okay,
Speaker 2: when you've got.
Speaker 3: Kids, did you get grocer and grosser? I've eaten so
Speaker 3: many disgusting things recently.
Speaker 2: All right, well that's the show in a nutshell, really,