WEBVTT - WHY REALITY TV STARS GET FUSSY ABOUT THEIR EDIT? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.520 Welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris and 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.360 on this podcast I'll be going behind the scenes with 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:09.880 the biggest players in television. On today's episode, I have 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:13.000 Jamie Wiggins, who is a television editor at the top 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.680 of his game, specializing in reality TV. He has worked 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:18.919 across some of the biggest shows we've ever seen on 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:23.360 Australian screens. His job is to collaborate with executive producers 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.920 and story producers to make us as the audience, fall 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.600 in love with the heroes, secretly love the villains, but 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.720 overall to be entertained. I'm so excited to talk about 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.200 reality TV editing because it is such a complicated job 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:41.840 which often is thankless or underappreciated. But also the editor 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.240 often falls victim of being blamed by former reality TV 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.279 stars when they're not happy with the way they've been portrayed, 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.320 which we're going to get to the bottom of. Jamie 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.440 has worked with some of the greats across most production studios, 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.760 but he's currently full time at Eureka Productions, which has 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:01.080 just produced Holy Moly for Channel seven, Amazing Race for 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.320 Channel ten, but also we will soon see a Sydney 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.760 version of Selling sunsets for Amazon. This guy's a bit 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.399 of a legend amongst the current creators of television, and 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:13.640 i'd like to welcome you to today's guest. It's Jamie Wiggins. 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.199 No one really talks about the editor because we are 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:19.000 just a little man in the shadows. 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.440 This show, in particular was by far the hardest I 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:24.240 have ever ever encountered. 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.560 I've worked on shows before where we do have to 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.880 portray someone as a villain who has a better chance 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:34.120 at finding a girlfriend. Can edit has an EBB and aflow. 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:35.880 Holy Moly has arrived and it's got to be a 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:36.560 lot of plot. 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:40.160 I think you just develop your style through nuances housemates. 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.720 This week, all of you can be nominated for a viction. 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:46.360 I think if you can watch it and see the editing, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.240 the editor hasn't done their job very well. 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:49.760 Good amte How are Yeah? 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:51.320 I'm great? How are you? This is good. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.680 It's so strange because you never really see the editor. 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:56.880 Yeah, I know it's strange for us too. 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.920 So editing is a word which has been come synonymous 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.559 with reality television, but we rarely hear from the editor. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:06.240 Why do you think that is. 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.320 I think it's because we don't really necessarily have a 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.000 very loud voice in television. I mean where editors are 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.840 considered the last scriptwriters in that I show maybe filmed 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.760 one way, we get it into posts, it's edits it 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.320 a different way, so how it was originally shot. So 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:26.840 I guess like it's hard to put this into words, 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:29.840 but we are very much part of the production, but 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.560 we're also very much in the shadows. Yeah, we're not 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.560 out with you guys. On the shoots. We get given 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.120 the footage, we edit away vpa away in our little 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:40.920 edit suites and put out what you see on television. 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:41.320 You know. 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:43.280 I've got this really funny story with a friend of 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.639 mine who was on a different show to me, and 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.120 she went out one night. She met these group of people, 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.240 They had a few drinks, they hung out all night. 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:51.720 We got to two o'clock in the morning, and she 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:53.320 ended up outside I think like the cw to get 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:55.840 in the cabs. And the guy that she was talking 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.120 to said, oh, by the way, I'm the main editor 0:02:59.160 --> 0:02:59.959 on the show that you did. 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.000 Yeah, and gave. 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.880 This look of like, oh you're in trouble now. Do 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.640 you think that it's a strange experience when you do 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:10.680 get to meet these people face to face one hundred percent. 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.000 It's the weirdest experience because editing these guys, we could 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.440 be editing them for months and months and months, and 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:18.639 you get to know them so well, if you fall 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.520 in love with them or you dislike them, and you 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:23.400 feel like you know them so then when they come out, 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.880 it's like seeing an old friend or seeing someone that 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:28.040 you're really close to and they're just like, have no 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.360 idea who you are. It's bizarre. It's got like a 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.239 strange kind of I don't want to use the word stalker, 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.760 but it's got that kind of feel. Yeah, anyone that's 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:37.440 not an editor, I'd be like, if you're on someone's 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.040 Instagram page or Facebook page every day and you're looking 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.800 at all their photos and following their story, but they 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.040 have no idea who you are. It's not what editing 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.000 is like. But that's the best example I can give 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.280 of for someone that doesn't know what it's like to 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:49.880 be an editor. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.040 Have you been in that situation before where you've met 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.200 someone after the show and you've been like, what do 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:56.160 you do? Do you tell them? 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:58.640 If I saw someone on a promisee that I worked on, 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.240 I wouldn't tell them, because I think it would raise 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:02.920 a lot of questions, like how do I look for 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.160 me personally? If I was on a TV show and 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.600 someone came up to me and said, I edited you, 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.960 my first question would be, how do I look? Am I? Okay? 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.040 And I don't want to get into that kind of 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.120 discussion with somebody. 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.680 When it comes to reality television contestants. Let's say I 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.680 got the bad edit. What's your immediate thought when you 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:21.000 hear that. 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.600 I think it's a fifty to fifty sort of thing, 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.240 to be honest, because I've worked on shows before where 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:31.039 we do have to portray someone as a villain, but 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.760 it's never going to happen that we have to portray 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.719 someone as a villain that's a very lovely person, But 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:40.360 you can't make the most beautiful, kind, loving person a villain. 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.800 And when ex reality contestants do say they got a 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:48.400 bad edit, we're never misconsuing anything that they say. It's 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.600 more nuances of music and nuances of looks and sound effects. 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.800 And okay, I'll give you an example of a cooking 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:57.359 show I did. I won't name the show, but we 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.200 had contestants that were cast as the villains and they 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.240 ate a meal. They gave so many positive comments about 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.719 the meal, but they gave one negative comment that the 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:08.840 sauce was too tangy. So what we do in the 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.320 editing if their casts the villain is we leave in 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.640 the source comment take everything else away. So I can 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.440 kind of understand people may feel that they got a 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:19.719 bad edit, but I think it's fifty to fifty. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:21.920 You know what. I think it's really funny. I meet 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.960 people who've been on reality shows and they say I 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.920 got the bad edit, and I go okay, And while 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:31.680 they're defending themselves, I can see in real time them 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.640 displaying all of the character traits that they say they 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.640 don't have. Do you think that people these days have 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.520 a really strong disconnect from who they think they are 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.240 versus how other people see them? 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.640 One hundred percent? I often find myself wondering how I 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.679 would be perceived if I was on one of these shows. 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.239 I think I'm a nice person. I don't think anyone 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.800 thinks they're a horrible person. So when they sit down 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:56.920 to watch the show that they've been on and they 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.000 come across in a horrible way, I don't blame them 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:02.600 for thinking that they are ripped off by the edit. 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:05.200 But we can only cheat reality so much. 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.400 Do you know if there's a point through the process 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.320 of casting where they all of a sudden go Okay, 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:12.240 that person's definitely going to be the villain, and then 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:13.800 do they hand those notes over to you. 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.479 Yeah, every show I've done, whenever I start a new production, 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.200 I mean, the productions I've been on lately don't have villains, 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:24.160 which to me is good because although it's great to 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.080 have villains in a movie or a TV show, like, 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.560 at the end of the day, with reality TV, these 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.320 are real people. They're not playing a character, so they 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:34.280 have to come out and face the music once they 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:38.560 come out of the house or the jungle or the villa. So, 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.120 going back to your original question, yes, we do. Usually 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:44.279 on day one of a new show, get told okay, 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.200 this character here they're the villain. But to my understanding, 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:51.159 those people are usually quite keen on that idea. I 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.840 think it's a weird thing where villains are almost celebrated. 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.320 I call it kind of the like Connor McGregor factor. 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:02.800 There's likable villains now, the PG villain, yeah, the Disney villain, yeah, exactly. 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.920 There's villains that you kind of are like on side 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:08.560 with I think the best example of that I can 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.880 give is like an Abby from The Bachelor. To some people, 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.120 she's a villain, but she's a very likable villain. You 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:16.240 can see that she's got a good heart. Even you, 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.680 to a lesser extent on Big Brother, like you came 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.160 in I think you were almost voted out in the 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.320 first week or something. Yeah, and you were. I think 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.040 you came in and said something like I'm the bitchiest 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.800 person you'll ever meet. But then as the show develops 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.880 and we get to know you, we see that underneath 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.240 that vibrado, there's like a really good, genuine person who 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:41.120 still has these villainous traits. So to me, like character 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:43.600 development is really important in TV. 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.360 It was before goggle Box, but I was goggle boxing 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.160 people who were in the show thinking what would the 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.360 viewers think? Yeah, so I was just saying what people 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.280 were thinking, and sometimes that's villainous. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.640 Well, I think what you said on the first night 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.320 to Michael is normally like that, or you're just apogean. 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:00.840 If you keep pigeon all me as Ben Gay, can 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:02.840 I pigeonhole you as being like a bogan because you've 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:03.640 got a weird. 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:10.000 Hair again, like Australia fell in love with you because yes, 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:11.960 you had the villainous traits, but you had a good heart. 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.920 And I think if we can portray people in reality 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.600 TV that do have villainous, bitchy, kind of funny traits, 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.760 but genuinely good people, I think that's the best case 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:23.400 scenario for everyone involved. 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.840 How does the executive producer involve himself when it comes 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.480 to the editing process. So obviously they're there, you know, 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:34.280 creating obstacles for people to jump over, creating storylines with 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.079 a story producer, but how do they involve themselves with you? 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.000 Like are you on set with them? And then do 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.640 you go into the editing room knowing their notes or 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:42.719 are they handing them over to you? 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.880 Okay, So the way it works, I'll speak from the 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.120 way it works from shows I've done, but the way 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.040 it works on day one, will get given an episode 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.920 and we work directly with the post producer. So someone 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.880 that goes side by side with us, finds the story 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.520 in the show, edits it down and as we might 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.000 get upwards of fifty hours at footage for a forty 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:07.439 five minute episode, So you can imagine the process involved 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.200 with that so over a two week period, usually we 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.400 edit that fifty hours let's just say fifty hours for 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.520 argument's sake, down to maybe an hour fifteen, and then 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.960 we have what we call a structural screening, where the 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:23.320 show won't have all the bells and whistles that you 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.520 see on air, it won't have music, it won't have 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.120 sound effects, but it will just be a story at it. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.680 So then that's seen by a supervisor who will either 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:35.840 say yes, do this, no, do that, don't like this story, 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:39.040 follow this story more. So, then we take those notes 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.280 and go away. And then that's when we start applying 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.960 the bells and whistles and everything like that to sell 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:47.080 the magic the show. And then two weeks later we 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.719 have a screening with an executive producer, which I mean, 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.640 I've been editing for eleven years now, and every screening 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.280 with an executive producer I still get the same. It's like, 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.920 imagine if you did an artwork and a whole bunch 0:09:59.960 --> 0:10:02.200 of people came in and disjudged your artwork, and then 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.440 people are saying, No, I don't like red, can you 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:05.240 change that to blue? 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:05.360 No? 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.720 I don't like those leads? Can you make them lower? 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.679 Like that's the process. So an executive producer will come 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.080 in give his notes, and then we've got about a 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.320 week to action those notes, and then it usually goes 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.800 off to a network or a streaming service who then 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.160 give their notes. So there's a lot of hoops to 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.040 jump through before the fifty hours I'm given gets to 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:25.080 a television screen. 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.120 Do you get really funny about people handing those notes over? 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.360 Do you get annoyed over time that the same notes 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:31.080 come back for you? 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.720 Oh? Yes, yes I do. Because the thing with television 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.640 is it's subjective. So like what a supervising producer may 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.360 want may be different to what an executive producer may want, 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:43.640 which may be different to what the client may want, 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:45.839 and they could be giving you different notes. So you're like, 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:47.480 but hang on, you told me to take it left 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:49.200 and right, but now you want me to take it 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.880 up and down. It's a very subjective process. So I 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.240 get frustrated when I find myself going back and forth 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:58.720 with notes, Like if someone takes me on a bum 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.120 steer in one direction and says, no, why did you 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.000 do that? Go back in this direction. It's basically like 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.240 repainting a picture over and over and over again. 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.080 You've worked with some of the same executive producers again 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:13.640 and again, so obviously rehire you. Is there a flavor 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:15.360 or a style that they know they're going. 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:18.080 To get with you. Yeah, I think with ITV, for example, 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.480 with Alex or Ben Olm, I get given more of 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.120 the kind of opening scenes, like the flashier kind of 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.760 I'm an editor that likes using a lot of sexy 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.440 shots and sexy effects and cool looking drone shots. So 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.520 with me, I think big epic scenes is what I like. 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.320 So like whether that's the start of a new reality 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.760 series or the teas at the front. 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.600 Which is my favorite. By the way. I love the openings. 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.400 I love especially under Celebrity always opens the year. Cannot 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.360 wait for it because I love the sweeping shots. The 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.000 drama then creative. 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:51.960 I love that, and I also love comedy. What you 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:55.240 touched on there with working with different executives, that's really 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.440 good because I've learned so much from working with people 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:03.160 like Ben Old and Almavadyakus and Ricky Priust. You know, 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.200 they all have such a wealth of knowledge in television, 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.160 and you learn little bits from all of them, and 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.240 then you just take the bits that apply to you, 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.600 and then I kind of feel like I've been molded 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:13.960 by these people into what I am. 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.520 But then think about it. You've been working for eleven 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.199 years doing this job, and you know it's in the 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.920 industry that can be really difficult to maintain employment, but 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.640 you've still kept getting hired on the biggest shows, you know, 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.160 some of the most amazing shows. Do you have a 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.079 show that you can't say no to that when that 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.000 comes around again, they go can you come for this? 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:33.679 You're like, I want to do it. 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.840 Yeah, I have two that I can't say no to 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:38.880 that now I do have to say no to because 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.520 I've had a child, one being I'm a celebrity to 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.040 get me out of here. I think you would find 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.280 it very hard to find anybody who works on that 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.200 show that didn't have a blast. The other one is 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.160 Love Island. I think for an editor, those two shows 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.760 are really refreshing to work on because we're very much 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.000 a part of the team in those kind of twenty 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.160 four hour turnaround shows. We're not off in Sydney while 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.560 the show was filmed in Africa where they're with production, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.080 so it feels like where all one big unit, which 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.680 is refreshing. It's also a refreshing show to edit in 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.800 terms of the way it's almost more real because you 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.320 don't have the time to manipulate stuff as much, so 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.720 we kind of just have to edit it as we 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:23.640 see it, which is also really exciting. On any other show, 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.680 you know, you could spend months on the same scene, 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.760 whereas this is one day that's it might not be perfect, 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:29.240 get it out. 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.760 Are there contestants that are particularly good that stayed in 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:32.240 your mind? 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:36.280 Yeah. I always like the likable villains, like the like 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.400 a Nash Pollard from MKR, the villains that have good 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.880 hearts but also kind of own their villainness. I also 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:46.360 really liked on I'm Celebrity. I think it was season eight, 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.079 Angie and Evie. I found them really fun to edit. 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.200 That's got a really good dynamic. And Richard Reid too 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.880 really funds to edit. Yeah, I mean those definitely stick 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:56.520 in my mind. 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.800 We often talk about producers wanting to manipulate the cast 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.520 to make a good content for the viewer. But then 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.760 also I know a lot of these producers they quite 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.280 often protect the contestants. So what do you hear more 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.080 often do you hear turn it up or turn it down? 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.200 It depends like if it was a real, genuine moment, 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.400 we definitely lean into it. I think you hear the 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.840 word frank and grabbing a lot where we, you know, 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.000 put words into contestants mouse and I have never, in 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:27.280 my eleven years of editing, made up something that somebody said. 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:28.800 I might say, you've never frank and grab. 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.240 I've have frank and grabs one hundred percent. I've frank 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.440 and grabs, but I've frank and grabs in the way 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.560 that I've cleaned up what somebody said, not mis betrayed 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.800 what they said. I'll give you an example. So if 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.320 a contestant said I hate oranges but I love apples, 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.160 we could frank and grab that to say I love apples, 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.000 but I hate oranges. But that would be mis betraying. Yeah, 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.520 fair message. So we don't do that. I know there 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:54.200 are shows which I won't mention, that do do that. 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.680 But when I frank and grab, I'm more clean up 0:14:57.720 --> 0:14:59.440 what somebody said. I'll give you an example. So if 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.880 I said I love Couldie Beach it's my favorite place 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.440 to surf, I could break and grab that to say 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.960 I love surfing at Couldie Beech. Yeah, it just makes 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.520 a cleaner more concise sentence for television. I think everything 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.760 these days is everyone wants everything very snappy, and so 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:15.880 that's the way we're editing. 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.360 Now. Do you turn away shows because you know that 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.600 they're more frank and grabby types shows? 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.840 Yes, yeah I do. There are two shows, very popular 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.600 shows which I won't work on just because I know 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.880 that they misbetray people and I just just doesn't sit 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:33.200 right with me. So, you know, I've got to go 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.360 home and sleep at night. And these people, like I 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.720 said earlier, on these people, they're not characters in a movie. 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:40.600 They're real people. They have to come out and live 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.440 their lives and face the music after this. So I 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.800 think if you've got people that are happy to be 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.680 the villain, people that are leaning into their villainess, but 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:50.880 also have the right intention and the good heart, I 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:52.000 think that's the best outcome. 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.520 It's so funny though, I from my experience of reality 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:59.840 television and from them talking to my other housemates, so 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.880 many of them said I was portrayed really differently to 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.080 who I was, and I was like, what. Whan I 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.800 watched it back, I thought they were portrayed exactly like 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.760 maybe it was a heightened reality which meant that, you know, 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.200 certain character traits that they had every day, but the 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.760 reality was my walk away and my take home was 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.400 that they were pain in the neck and then they 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.280 go but I wasn't like that, And I'm like, no, 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.840 you weren't like that all the time, but you were 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.560 like that. So I think what a lot of producers 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:32.400 are doing is just encapsulating or heightening the version of 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:33.000 who you are. 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.920 That's exactly right. You use the right word. They're heightening, 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:37.760 and that's what we do because that's what we do 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.480 as editors, where storytellers that are trying to, you know, 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:46.720 tell a clear, concise, but also entertaining story. So if 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.160 someone in the Big brother House was nice for nineteen 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.680 hours of the day but had a really bad moment 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:54.800 for half an hour, but that half an hour would 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.280 make really good television in a two minute, by what 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.680 part are we going to use? And we heighten things, 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.480 you know, like I can kind of empathize with reality 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.920 show contestants that say they got a bad edit because 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.720 we heightened, We exaggerate, So someone might have said a 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.679 horrible thing, it doesn't sound that horrible, but when you 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.600 put nasty, menacing music under it, it sounds like they're 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.560 the worst person on planet Earth. 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.919 You would talk about the screenings before, like as in 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.399 the screenings all get together, who attends those screenings, Like 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:23.879 who's always present for that? 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.919 Okay, So the company I'm at nowt Eureka, we have 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.440 Paul Franklin, we have Ricky Proofs. They're the two kind 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.359 of main EPs that we work with at Eureka. So 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.439 they attend the screenings and they give us approval to 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.240 send off to the client. And usually network television, you 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.400 do have a screening with the client in the room. 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.200 When I say the client, I mean Channel seven, ten, nine, 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.520 Tannel ten, Netflix, Amazon, stand they're the client. Usually what 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.320 happens is we have a screening with the executives of 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.520 that particular company, so Eureka, they give us the approval 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.520 to show their product to the network. Basically what they're 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.320 selling to the network, so they need to have confidence 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:06.359 in it, if that makes sense, So they're going to 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.960 give their notes, their feedback. They want to make sure 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:12.480 that they're representing the company in a good way before 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.000 we then show the network. 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.840 What happens if the show is finished editing, like is 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.240 now we're pre recording stuff or we're editing a whole series, 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.760 or whether they're waiting until the audience can give an 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.960 idea as to what's working. Does shows ever which are 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:28.880 doing as well have a reformat to. 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:33.440 Them very very rarely, because a show takes about six 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.000 weeks from start to finish, to edit and then before 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.200