1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to Tuesday. You are listening to 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: the Daily Os. I'm Zara and i am joined as 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: always by Sam Kozlowski to take you through the day's 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: news before we get into the stories. Victoria yesterday recorded 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: nineteen hundred and three new cases. New South Wales recorded 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty five cases and in the Act 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: there were seventeen new cases. 8 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: For today's deep Dive, we're going to do a little 9 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: bit of mythbusting about the Ikak hearing that began yesterday 10 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 2: concerning former New South Wales Premier Gladys Berygiklin. Yesterday, the 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 2: hearing began with the viewing of private Aykak evidence that 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: Beveragiiclian gave in the weeks leading up to the beginning 13 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 2: of the public hearing, and we're going to go through 14 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: this in the Deep dive. Bera Jicklin told the private 15 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 2: Aykak hearing that she quote didn't know what to think 16 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 2: when her then partner Darren Maguire was accused of corrupt 17 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: conduct in twenty eighteen. The video extract was shown on 18 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: the first day of the two week investigation into Beveragicklin's conduct. 19 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: Change of pace, but victual prices in Sydney, Melbourne and 20 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: Brisbane have reached a record high, with more increases expected 21 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: in the coming days. In Sydney the average price was 22 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy point four cents per leader, with 23 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: Melbourne at one hundred and seventy four point seven cents 24 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: per lead and Brisbane at one hundred and seventy eight cents. 25 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: It comes on the back of a seven year high 26 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: in oil prices caused by rising demand globally, and my 27 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: bank felt that over the weekend when I tried to 28 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: fill up. 29 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, in Spain, Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has vowed to 30 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: criminalize sex work in the country, arguing it quote in 31 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: slaves women. According to the BBC, around three hundred thousand 32 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 2: women currently work as sex workers in Spain, with the 33 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: industry largely unregulated. 34 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: There were some good news out of Queensland yesterday, with 35 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: Premier Anastasia Palichet announcing quarantine free interstate travel will resume 36 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: when eighty percent of Queensland's population has been fully vaccinated. 37 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: Based on what we know now of current rates, it's 38 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: expected that this milestone will be reached on the seventeenth 39 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: of December. 40 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: Yesterday was the long awaited commencement of the IKAK hearing 41 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: into the conduct of former New South Wales Premier Gladysberry Jicklian. 42 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: We've talked about this hearing for the last few weeks 43 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 2: and it's finally arrived and from yesterday you can now 44 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 2: live stream the public hearing online for the next two weeks. Zara, 45 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: after a number of hours of hearings for the first day, 46 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 2: give us what we need to know in twenty seconds. 47 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: Apart from the private recording that was mentioned at the 48 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: top of this podcast, we also heard from Michael Tooey, 49 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: who's a senior bureaucrat at the New South Wales Office 50 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: of Sport and he said that in twenty sixteen he 51 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: was asked to put together an urgent document for funding 52 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: for upgrading facilities at the Australian Clay Target Association in 53 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: Wagga Wagga. If that sounds familiar, it's because it was 54 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: mentioned in the scope of the IKAK inquiry into Gladysbury Jiclian, 55 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: because it is believed that Daryn Maguire misused his public 56 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: office to provide funding for this place. Michael too he 57 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 1: told AIKAK yesterday that there was quote inadequate methodology used 58 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: when assessing the benefit to cost ratio of the New 59 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: South Wales government granting funds for the Australian Clay Association, 60 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: and he said that there was no way of knowing 61 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: that the costs were right. 62 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: So to translate that a little bit, basically, what he's 63 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: saying there is that it shouldn't have cost as much 64 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 2: as it did and for the benefit that it provided 65 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: to the community, it probably wasn't worth the money. 66 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: He also said that the then treasure at Gladsboro, Jiclian, 67 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: was pushing for a funding bid for an upgrade at 68 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: that clubhouse, and he said, we were trying to understand 69 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: the rush. The treasure wanted it on the agenda for 70 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: the fourteenth of December twenty sixteen. 71 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 2: And that's where conversations about the relationship between the former 72 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: Premier and Dara Maguire come into question, and that relationship 73 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: is going to be a really important point of this hearing. Zira. 74 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 2: One thing that has confused both you and I, and 75 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: also confused a lot of our readers is the difference 76 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: between a public and a private aikak hearing. How did 77 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: we hear evidence from Gladys sparagically in Yesterday, which was 78 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: recorded weeks ago. 79 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: So what we do know about the way that AKAK 80 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: goes about its processes is that it holds private hearings 81 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: before it holds public hearings. So, after Gladys spiagically and resigned, 82 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: Kate mcclemont, who is a journalist who has worked in 83 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: this space for a very long time, said on air 84 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: that private hearings had already been held and therefore when 85 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: the premier did resign, private hearings had already taken place. 86 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 2: I had a few more questions about the procedures around AIKAK, 87 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 2: so I put them to Ian Neil, who's a leading 88 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: barrister in Australia. I asked Ian if Gladysparagicallyan should have 89 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 2: resigned when she did, but more than that, would she 90 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: actually have been able to remain as premier during this 91 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 2: period of public hearings. His answer to that lawfully yes. 92 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 3: That was a judgment that she made, it not a 93 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 3: judgment required of her by IKAK. And so when one 94 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 3: reads or hears, as we have all done, suggestions that 95 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 3: IKAK has forced or forced Missperagiclian from office, criticisms of 96 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 3: it for having done so, they're all misplaced because that's 97 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: not what happened. 98 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: So one of the ideas that's coming up in discussions 99 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: about a federal Iykak and even what's happening with Gladys 100 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: baragically in at the moment is this idea of the 101 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 2: presumption of innocence and that even if it's proven that 102 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 2: Beeragicklin did nothing wrong here, her reputation has been harmed 103 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 2: beyond repair and she can't enter politics again. Here is 104 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 2: Ian's views on that. 105 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: That, to my mind, is an argument that ultimately drives 106 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 3: one to the position that public life should be conducted 107 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 3: free of scrutiny, not in a transparent way. No one 108 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 3: need fear transparency, no one need fear accountability, no one 109 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 3: need fear investigation if they have an answer for questions 110 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 3: that are legitimately raised against them. All that has happened 111 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 3: here is that Eykac, having carried out no doubt thorough investigations, 112 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 3: has formed the view that Missbogiculian and perhaps other people 113 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 3: have questions to answer. And in my view it is 114 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 3: a good thing. It's a very good thing that we 115 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: have in New South Wales a system in which people 116 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 3: who have discharged public trust are required to answer those 117 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 3: sorts of questions and to answer them publicly in ways 118 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 3: that can be critically scrutinized. 119 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: And finally, I wanted to know what happens at the end, 120 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: what happens after this two weeks with a report held 121 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: in our hands examining the behavior of Guyasberagicklian, where do 122 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 2: we go from there? 123 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 3: It depends on what sort of findings are made. The 124 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 3: report itself doesn't constitute evidence, although it can be used 125 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 3: to inform decisions by prosecuting authorities. The Director of Public 126 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 3: Prosecutions is the principal prosecuting authority in New South Wales 127 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 3: and a report of IYKEAC can be used to inform 128 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 3: decisions about whether anyone should be prosecuted as a consequence 129 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 3: of conduct uncovered by IKK. But the report itself isn't evidence, 130 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 3: So be interesting commentary from Anne Neil there. 131 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: For obvious reasons, this inquiry and what we will hear 132 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: over the coming weeks is of real significance for a 133 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: lot of people across Australia. So as we find out more, 134 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: we will keep you updated. Aside from the hearings, you 135 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: can also get the rest of the day's news over 136 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: on Instagram. It's where over a quarter of a million 137 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: Australians get their news every day, and we would love 138 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: to have you over there with us.