Speaker 1: Hello.
Speaker 2: My name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr the
Speaker 2: Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
Speaker 2: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it. She's on the Money.
Speaker 3: She's on the Money.
Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money podcast for
Speaker 4: people who want financial freedom. My name is beck Sided
Speaker 4: and with me is Victoria Divine.
Speaker 1: What a surprise good week?
Speaker 4: Yeah, a really good week, very much no particular reason. Okay,
Speaker 4: so V this week episode. Yes, this word I feel
Speaker 4: like brings some anxiety with it.
Speaker 1: It does.
Speaker 5: We're talking about redundancy.
Speaker 1: We are everyone would have known that because of the
Speaker 1: topic of the episode. Though yes they clicked on it,
Speaker 1: they probably had anxiety clicking on it. And I really
Speaker 1: appreciate that you got this far.
Speaker 4: What made us think about it was we're going through
Speaker 4: my contract and I noticed when signing my contract there
Speaker 4: was like a whole section about redundancy, but not.
Speaker 1: My contract with you though not our contract. Sign a
Speaker 1: real contract with me you'll keep working for and which
Speaker 1: mad respect, but you know, just making it clear absolutely
Speaker 1: there is a section in all my employment contracts on redundancy. Though, ah,
Speaker 1: there has to be.
Speaker 5: Let's start there. What is redundancy?
Speaker 1: So redundancy is something that occurs when an employer no
Speaker 1: longer requires that job. It's not personal, or it shouldn't
Speaker 1: be personal. But for example, you say work at your
Speaker 1: workplace and they do a restructure and say you work
Speaker 1: in the growth department. But in the restructure, there's actually
Speaker 1: not going to be a growth department. We've identified that
Speaker 1: we don't actually need that as part of the business,
Speaker 1: or we're trying to cut back costs and like you know,
Speaker 1: stripping away roles. The company as a whole has deemed
Speaker 1: this not necessary. What happens is your role then becomes
Speaker 1: redundant because it's not needed by the company anymore.
Speaker 4: It's not personal, right, So would that be the same
Speaker 4: as getting fired?
Speaker 5: Basically?
Speaker 1: No, I mean it can feel that way. I totally
Speaker 1: understand it. No one wants to be made redundant, you
Speaker 1: know what, Actually that's a lie. There are some people
Speaker 1: who are like, I've worked at this company for ages
Speaker 1: and my redundancy package would be lit. So they do
Speaker 1: want to be made redundant. But that's a story for
Speaker 1: another day. But whilst getting fired and being made redundant
Speaker 1: both end up in you having no job, beck they're
Speaker 1: very very different. So when you get made redundant, there's
Speaker 1: actually a notice period that you might have to work through,
Speaker 1: but we're going to touch on this a little bit
Speaker 1: later on, and you're often left with what is called
Speaker 1: a redundancy package, which is fair a nice, sounds lovely,
Speaker 1: But when you're fired, this is quite often an instant dismissal,
Speaker 1: and like you wrap up your work immediately and you
Speaker 1: don't actually receive a payout except for obviously the things
Speaker 1: that you're owed, like and you'll leave and stuff that
Speaker 1: you've accrued. So it is very different and treated and
Speaker 1: handled differently.
Speaker 4: So it kind of sounds like if you were to
Speaker 4: lose your job, redundancy so much preferatig like.
Speaker 1: If I'm going to lose a job, Beck, I want
Speaker 1: to be made redundant. I don't want to get fired. Yes,
Speaker 1: for some it definitely is better. A redundancy package is
Speaker 1: obviously different for everyone depending on how long they've actually
Speaker 1: been with that employer. Like, if you've stayed with a
Speaker 1: company for over twelve months, you could be eligible for
Speaker 1: redundancy pay, but this will obviously be stated in your contract,
Speaker 1: as you noticed when you were reading yours. So, for example,
Speaker 1: if you've stayed with a company, beck for two years,
Speaker 1: you might actually receive between four and six weeks worth
Speaker 1: of pay in lieu of you working out your notice period. Often,
Speaker 1: if an employer has made you redundant, they would actually
Speaker 1: prefer you to wrap up immediately because there's nothing to
Speaker 1: wrap up.
Speaker 5: Like it's a bit awkward.
Speaker 1: Ye, it's a little bit awkward, but also like wrap
Speaker 1: up because we've deemed this job like useless basically we
Speaker 1: don't need it anymore, so like why do it for
Speaker 1: another four to six weeks? That doesn't make a lot
Speaker 1: of sense, and you essentially then don't work through your notice.
Speaker 1: You just go home and still get paid. There are
Speaker 1: many redundancy calculators online that might actually help you to
Speaker 1: understand what you could receive. So if you're thinking about
Speaker 1: like fire out, I'm going to be made redundant, start
Speaker 1: looking up a redundancy calculator. But if you're in a
Speaker 1: job and you've been in that job for nine ten years,
Speaker 1: you can actually be looking at sixteen whole weeks of payback.
Speaker 5: That sounds pretty sweet.
Speaker 1: Sixteen weeks of pay all right, pretty well, spend some
Speaker 1: of that time finding a new job.
Speaker 5: No waris. But I'm also thinking, like, you do have
Speaker 5: to pay tax on that, So you.
Speaker 1: Do, but yes and no, so it's not like the
Speaker 1: tax that you're paying on your current package right now now,
Speaker 1: beckh okay, So there is actually a tax free limit
Speaker 1: because you're being reade redundant, and obviously it's not you're
Speaker 1: being fired like the government does look after us in
Speaker 1: this way. So the redundancy payout is actually designed to
Speaker 1: provide you with income while you're looking for a new role. However,
Speaker 1: there is a limit on what is tax free. So
Speaker 1: the base payout limit is eleven thousand, nine hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty five dollars and an additional five thousand, nine hundred
Speaker 1: and ninety four dollars for every year of service. So
Speaker 1: say you work for a company for three years, the
Speaker 1: most you can get in redundancy tax free is twenty nine,
Speaker 1: nine hundred and sixty seven dollars, which is actually quite
Speaker 1: a lot of money if you ask me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, so that's minimum tax free. I thought you
Speaker 4: gonna say Max, no, you can get paid out, and
Speaker 4: I was gonna be like, Wow, that doesn't sound as good.
Speaker 1: It's a pretty good number. And that's why I guess
Speaker 1: when people go, oh, redundancy package, if you've never been
Speaker 1: through it, like, there's no reason why you would understand
Speaker 1: how the tax on that works. Yeah, but the tax
Speaker 1: is very favorable to make sure that you're in a
Speaker 1: financially secure position and have enough time and money to
Speaker 1: find a new job, because again, you're not being fired,
Speaker 1: the role has been made redundant. That doesn't make you
Speaker 1: a bad employee totally.
Speaker 4: It kind of makes me think though, like, if you're
Speaker 4: a small business and you can't afford one to keep
Speaker 4: paying someone for a job that's redundant, but you also
Speaker 4: kin't afford the payout, how would they go about affording that?
Speaker 1: Well, any good employer should have a very good budget
Speaker 1: and cash flow system and have it planned out in
Speaker 1: case these things happen, I see, because that would be
Speaker 1: the right thing to do, But it really depends on
Speaker 1: how small the business is. So in Australia there is
Speaker 1: actually a small business exemption, which is important to understand
Speaker 1: because it can be good and bad. Like working for
Speaker 1: a small business is great, but there are a few
Speaker 1: risks that you take on when you choose to do that.
Speaker 1: But it means that a business with under fifteen staff
Speaker 1: generally avoid the redundancy payout requirements, So doesn't matter how
Speaker 1: long you've worked for them if they're a small business.
Speaker 1: And it's kind of like a bit like murky Waters,
Speaker 1: I'd say, because unfair dismissal might come into play if
Speaker 1: there's not a valid reason for the redundancy. It's not
Speaker 1: like a blanket get out of jail free card for
Speaker 1: the small business. So like if you worked for a
Speaker 1: small business, as like a video editor and they had
Speaker 1: less than fifteen employees and they're like, look, becky're being
Speaker 1: made redundant. Sorry, like you're a small business, don't need
Speaker 1: to pay you out? Yah? Yeah great, And then you
Speaker 1: see them advertising the same role a month later on
Speaker 1: C Yeah cool, straight to VCaP Oh like we're recording
Speaker 1: that cheap. That's illegal.
Speaker 5: That's good to know.
Speaker 4: Okay, So what sort of industries are you likely to
Speaker 4: get made redundant from?
Speaker 1: Okay? So, like there's no industry that's actually safe from redundancy,
Speaker 1: but there are some when I did some research that
Speaker 1: are a little bit more common than others. For example,
Speaker 1: the average quarterly redundancy for the construction industry is eleven thousand,
Speaker 1: nine hundred people, and retail is eight thousand, two hundred people.
Speaker 1: Where on the lower end is like education and training
Speaker 1: and that is two thousand, seven hundred people.
Speaker 5: I feel very scared all of a sudden.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't feel scared in your job. They need you
Speaker 1: do say exactly, yeah, like they are very reliant on you,
Speaker 1: like desperado.
Speaker 5: That actually is music to my ears.
Speaker 4: Stick around because after the break, we will be looking
Speaker 4: at how to use your redundancy to your advantage in
Speaker 4: conversations you should be having at job interviews about redundancy.
Speaker 4: Smart Okay, V we are back and we've talked about
Speaker 4: what redundancy is and how it works, but how do
Speaker 4: we use it to our advantage?
Speaker 1: All right, So redundancy can be super hard, and I
Speaker 1: don't want to take away from that because it can
Speaker 1: be really, really emotional. My partner's been made redundant, and
Speaker 1: the emotional rollercoaster you go through because well, you're like, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, that's fine, he can find another job. Oh
Speaker 1: how exciting he's going to get a payout, oh far out?
Speaker 1: Like what if there's not another job that he likes? Like,
Speaker 1: it's an emotional period of time. And while the money
Speaker 1: side of things can be like a little bit sexy,
Speaker 1: like I'd prefer you just have a stable job. Yet
Speaker 1: for sure, I actually don't want to change jobs right now,
Speaker 1: like he wasn't looking for a new job. But redundancy
Speaker 1: can actually set you up with some flexibility if the
Speaker 1: stars aligned, And by that I mean what you can
Speaker 1: do when you get made redundant to then set yourself up. So,
Speaker 1: my friend, let me give you an example. Are you
Speaker 1: ready If you were with an employer for two years
Speaker 1: and you received eight weeks pay and one month's notice
Speaker 1: your employer they might make you work the month or
Speaker 1: they might just like let you wrap up immediately, depending
Speaker 1: everywhere is different. In either case, this is going to
Speaker 1: be eight weeks lead time for you to find yourself
Speaker 1: a new role. Right, redundancy it's not like termination, and
Speaker 1: it actually doesn't look bad on your resume at all.
Speaker 1: So like someone who is interviewing you is not going
Speaker 1: to go, oh, Beck, you got my redundant, like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go oh great. Beck probably didn't want to leave
Speaker 1: that job. Maybe she's like a very valuable asset. I
Speaker 1: probably do want to interview her and look into her.
Speaker 1: So if I was to get made redundant today, I
Speaker 1: would actually be applying for jobs from day one, be waiting.
Speaker 1: I would be calling up recruiters. I would be reaching
Speaker 1: out to my network. Because if you're wrapped up immediately
Speaker 1: and you landed a job starting in two weeks, you're
Speaker 1: practically getting six weeks worth of free payback. Ah that's
Speaker 1: so that's money mean that can go into your emergency fund.
Speaker 1: And because some of it would have been tax free,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit more than what you were going
Speaker 1: to expect it to be. So it's quicker that you act.
Speaker 1: The more advantage you might be giving yourself, And it's
Speaker 1: kind of like getting an end of employment bonus. If
Speaker 1: you time getting a new job correctly. You could also
Speaker 1: use this as like a fresh start. Maybe you've really
Speaker 1: wanted to try out like a different industry. This is
Speaker 1: your push, my friend, this is your opportunity to kind
Speaker 1: of like dabble in a new career. Okay, to reframe it,
Speaker 1: make it exciting.
Speaker 4: That dons sound kind of exciting. So we've covered a
Speaker 4: lot today, But what about negotiating a redundancy package? Is
Speaker 4: that something you actually like can do? And if so,
Speaker 4: how to go about it?
Speaker 1: Negotiate everything. Negotiating a redundancy package is actually possible. It's
Speaker 1: essential to cover factors like length of service, your role,
Speaker 1: and any additional benefits. But say you have access to
Speaker 1: a company car, like and currently you have a work phone,
Speaker 1: you could potentially negotiate benefits to negate the loss of those.
Speaker 1: So one, make sure you read your contracts. But like,
Speaker 1: it doesn't hurt to ask, does.
Speaker 5: It totally keep the car? Maybe?
Speaker 1: Yeh, keep the car like if you can, but more
Speaker 1: likely be able to keep the phone. Be like, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: like I don't have a phone. Is there any way
Speaker 1: we can just work that into the contract so that
Speaker 1: when you sign the dotted line you don't have to
Speaker 1: give the iPhone back.
Speaker 4: Not a bad ita money we you know when you're
Speaker 4: doing references and stuff like that, Can you, like use
Speaker 4: the people that made your redundant as a reference?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you can.
Speaker 5: It depends on maybe a relationship with.
Speaker 1: That well, I mean, yeah, you're not. Can you use
Speaker 1: someone that you have a dodgy relationship with for a
Speaker 1: reference to begin with? You probably weren't going to go
Speaker 1: and apply for a new job and then quit and
Speaker 1: still use that person. Right, totally, But you could do
Speaker 1: even better. Some workplaces actually have job search assistance, so
Speaker 1: you might get made redundant and then the HR department
Speaker 1: actually might step in and assist you in the right
Speaker 1: direction in like resume riding and support, or they might
Speaker 1: have insights to career opportunities outside of your current company
Speaker 1: that you didn't know about, So these could be a
Speaker 1: good push in the right direction. But yes, you can
Speaker 1: absolutely use your current employer who's just made you redundant
Speaker 1: as a reference. Like they didn't fire you, they've made
Speaker 1: you redundant, and so the conversation would be like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, we are so sad to be losing Beck.
Speaker 1: It wasn't about Beck, it was about the role, Like
Speaker 1: we just don't need that role performed anymore. Should be
Speaker 1: an absolute asset to your company, and often you can go,
Speaker 1: all right, well, I'm being made redundant. Can I just
Speaker 1: get like a letter of recommendation that I can pop
Speaker 1: with my resume, so like it's just so clean and
Speaker 1: so easy to begin with, And that's another option as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it might even be better than getting fired or.
Speaker 1: Oh I to present no everything when it comes to
Speaker 1: redundancy is better than getting fired, like on your resume
Speaker 1: is not ideal.
Speaker 4: But the relationships, even if you're quitting, it's kind of like,
Speaker 4: well they aree you something now yeah, yeah, actually you
Speaker 4: know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Well, won't frame it that way, but like, yeah, you're right,
Speaker 1: because it's kind of like, hey, you did this to me.
Speaker 1: I didn't try and leave you. I was loyal, so
Speaker 1: loyal gain now go tell people that I'm really good.
Speaker 5: Aha.
Speaker 4: So what should I be asking my job interview when
Speaker 4: it comes to redundancy?
Speaker 1: Okay, So it's probably not a question that's going to
Speaker 1: come up very often. It's definitely not the first question
Speaker 1: you want to ask when it gets down to like
Speaker 1: the nitty gritty, you're going I want to make sure
Speaker 1: that they actually have good policies in place and you'll
Speaker 1: find these in your employment contract, but i'd be asking
Speaker 1: what their employment retention looks like, so I knew how
Speaker 1: secure the job would be in the future. Like i'd
Speaker 1: be asking what actually is the policy when it comes
Speaker 1: to redundancy, and you know how that looks if you're worried.
Speaker 1: It's not something that needs to come up in a
Speaker 1: job interview, though, Like I don't want you going, oh well,
Speaker 1: I'll ask them about redundancy. They'll be like, why do
Speaker 1: you want a redundancy package? You haven't even started here.
Speaker 1: But I'd be asking what that policy is, what it
Speaker 1: looks like. And i'd also be asking what opportunities for
Speaker 1: growth currently exist in the company that you're joining, because
Speaker 1: they might have another option down the line, move into
Speaker 1: a new role when your role doesn't exist. So that's
Speaker 1: called redeployment, where you would be made redundant from one
Speaker 1: role and then just rehired in another area of the business,
Speaker 1: which would also be a slagh if you like the business.
Speaker 4: Okay, it doesn't seem so scary to me anymore, but
Speaker 4: I guess like we're talking more financially, but there's like
Speaker 4: the whole emotional side to it as well.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent feels like trash. Let's be honest, Like,
Speaker 1: no one's going to go yay jump for joy got
Speaker 1: made redundant. I mean when Steve got made redundant, we
Speaker 1: weren't upset. We were like, oh, good, that helps us
Speaker 1: financially significantly. This is probably too much information and I
Speaker 1: kind of don't mind. But because he worked for that
Speaker 1: employee for nine years back, so we were like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is not the worst thing to happen, is that?
Speaker 5: But if he did pay up?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he did like the company and like they had,
Speaker 1: you know, really good policies, and he's like, oh, I
Speaker 1: could go back at some point, Like when you get
Speaker 1: made redundant, it's not like no forever, Like you could
Speaker 1: definitely like apply for another job in that company if
Speaker 1: you love them so much and still want to continue
Speaker 1: working for them. Like it's them slamming the door in
Speaker 1: your face and me like, I can't believe we finally
Speaker 1: got rid of Beck, Like it's not like that at all.
Speaker 1: It can seem really scary, but I think taking it
Speaker 1: in your stride and taking a redundancy by the horns
Speaker 1: and going all right, I know this is overwhelming, but
Speaker 1: let's get back on track as soon as possible. How
Speaker 1: quickly can I land a new role? Because you might
Speaker 1: end up with six weeks worth of pay in an
Speaker 1: emergency fund and a brand new role that you love
Speaker 1: and a team that you thrive in, and you're in
Speaker 1: such a better position, Like, let's reframe it and go, well,
Speaker 1: what can I get out of this? Yeah, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: you might have been thinking about how you're like I
Speaker 1: love my job. I really do pretty underpaid, but like
Speaker 1: I still love my job. Now you're gonna get equal pay, Like,
Speaker 1: isn't that really exciting? I think it is. I feel
Speaker 1: like emotionally, yeah, it's a massive challenge and it definitely
Speaker 1: is a bit of a shock to the system. But
Speaker 1: I think you're allowed to have a range of emotions
Speaker 1: at this time. Your whole world has literally been flipped
Speaker 1: upside down, and humans inherently do not like change, beck,
Speaker 1: like unless they've instigated that change in control of it. Like,
Speaker 1: we're not that excited to have our job not exist
Speaker 1: one day. Yeah, you know, like it's not gonna work,
Speaker 1: and you should genuinely be seeking out some support as well,
Speaker 1: Like it's hard from friends or family. Your employer might
Speaker 1: have you know, professional counseling that you can use during
Speaker 1: that process. They definitely should be letting you know what
Speaker 1: your options are. It's although understanding that you know. It's
Speaker 1: not a reflection of your worth. It's not a reflection
Speaker 1: of your work ethic, it's not a reflection of how
Speaker 1: good you were as an employee. It's actually just is
Speaker 1: what it is, and it's about starting a new chapter.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: True, that's a really good perspective. Actually, thank you.
Speaker 4: It's mine incredible that brain of yours. Honestly, so all
Speaker 4: they've got. Now, though, Beck, do you have any advice
Speaker 4: for a community who might be facing redundancy or in
Speaker 4: the process of job hunting after being made redundant.
Speaker 1: I feel like what I said before, it's not reflective
Speaker 1: of your worth, ye, Like I think so many times
Speaker 1: we tie our professional success to our personal worth, and like,
Speaker 1: to me, that's the dumbest thing in the entire world.
Speaker 1: Like I don't care if you're a doctor or a lawyer,
Speaker 1: or you're the add me an assistant, or you know,
Speaker 1: you clean the wheels on a train, Like I could
Speaker 1: not care less if you're a good and kind human.
Speaker 1: I care so much more about you than what your
Speaker 1: career like stipulates you are right, I just don't care.
Speaker 1: It's not how I pick friends. It's not how you
Speaker 1: should pick friends, like we keep company. That is kind right,
Speaker 1: So you need to know first that it's not a
Speaker 1: reflection of your worth in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1: But once you realize that and you've gotten through the
Speaker 1: shock of it, I would want you to be really
Speaker 1: proactive and use your current job as an opportunity. Use
Speaker 1: the time during that notice period or immediately after to
Speaker 1: upskill and networking, explore new job opportunities, and remember it's
Speaker 1: not just an end, but a potential beginning of something
Speaker 1: even better.
Speaker 5: Wow beautiful?
Speaker 2: Is that?
Speaker 5: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: I think so full of it sometimes, But I think
Speaker 1: I did good this time.
Speaker 6: There.
Speaker 5: I feel really motivated.
Speaker 1: All right, let's leave it before imuck it up. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. We will see you guys bright and
Speaker 1: early on Friday for a little catch up of the week.
Speaker 1: But till then, have the best week and we love
Speaker 1: you very much.
Speaker 5: Bye, guys.
Speaker 6: Yes, the advice shared on She's on the Money is
Speaker 6: general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances.
Speaker 6: She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and
Speaker 6: should not be relied upon to make an investment or
Speaker 6: financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product,
Speaker 6: read the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice.
Speaker 1: Tailored towards your needs.
Speaker 6: Victoria Divine and She's on the Money are authorized representatives
Speaker 6: of Money. Shepper Pty Ltd ABN three two one IS
Speaker 6: six four nine two seven seven zero eight AFSL four
Speaker 6: five one two eight nine