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Speaker 1: Hello.

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Speaker 2: My name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr the

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Speaker 2: Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we

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Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would

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Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of

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Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging

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Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through

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Speaker 2: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and

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Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today

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Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into it. She's on the Money.

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Speaker 3: She's on the Money.

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Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money podcast for

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Speaker 4: people who want financial freedom. My name is beck Sided

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Speaker 4: and with me is Victoria Divine.

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Speaker 1: What a surprise good week?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a really good week, very much no particular reason. Okay,

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Speaker 4: so V this week episode. Yes, this word I feel

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Speaker 4: like brings some anxiety with it.

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Speaker 1: It does.

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Speaker 4: We're talking about redundancy.

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Speaker 1: We are everyone would have known that because of the

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Speaker 1: topic of the episode. Though yes they clicked on it,

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Speaker 1: they probably had anxiety clicking on it. And I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate that you got this far.

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Speaker 4: What made us think about it was we're going through

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Speaker 4: my contract and I noticed when signing my contract there

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Speaker 4: was like a whole section about redundancy, but not.

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Speaker 1: My contract with you though not our contract. Sign a

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Speaker 1: real contract with me you'll keep working for and which

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Speaker 1: mad respect, but you know, just making it clear absolutely

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Speaker 1: there is a section in all my employment contracts on redundancy. Though, ah,

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Speaker 1: there has to be.

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Speaker 4: Let's start there. What is redundancy?

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Speaker 1: So redundancy is something that occurs when an employer no

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Speaker 1: longer requires that job. It's not personal, or it shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be personal. But for example, you say work at your

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Speaker 1: workplace and they do a restructure and say you work

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Speaker 1: in the growth department. But in the restructure, there's actually

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Speaker 1: not going to be a growth department. We've identified that

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Speaker 1: we don't actually need that as part of the business,

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Speaker 1: or we're trying to cut back costs and like you know,

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Speaker 1: stripping away roles. The company as a whole has deemed

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Speaker 1: this not necessary. What happens is your role then becomes

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Speaker 1: redundant because it's not needed by the company anymore.

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Speaker 4: It's not personal, right, So would that be the same

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Speaker 4: as getting fired? Basically?

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Speaker 1: No, I mean it can feel that way. I totally

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Speaker 1: understand it. No one wants to be made redundant, you

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Speaker 1: know what, Actually that's a lie. There are some people

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Speaker 1: who are like, I've worked at this company for ages

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Speaker 1: and my redundancy package would be lit. So they do

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Speaker 1: want to be made redundant. But that's a story for

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Speaker 1: another day. But whilst getting fired and being made redundant

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Speaker 1: both end up in you having no job, beck they're

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Speaker 1: very very different. So when you get made redundant, there's

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Speaker 1: actually a notice period that you might have to work through,

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Speaker 1: but we're going to touch on this a little bit

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Speaker 1: later on, and you're often left with what is called

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Speaker 1: a redundancy package, which is fair a nice, sounds lovely,

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Speaker 1: But when you're fired, this is quite often an instant dismissal,

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Speaker 1: and like you wrap up your work immediately and you

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Speaker 1: don't actually receive a payout except for obviously the things

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Speaker 1: that you're owed, like and you'll leave and stuff that

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Speaker 1: you've accrued. So it is very different and treated and

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Speaker 1: handled differently.

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Speaker 4: So it kind of sounds like if you were to

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Speaker 4: lose your job, redundancy so much preferatig like.

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Speaker 1: If I'm going to lose a job, Beck, I want

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Speaker 1: to be made redundant. I don't want to get fired. Yes,

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Speaker 1: for some it definitely is better. A redundancy package is

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Speaker 1: obviously different for everyone depending on how long they've actually

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Speaker 1: been with that employer. Like, if you've stayed with a

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Speaker 1: company for over twelve months, you could be eligible for

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Speaker 1: redundancy pay, but this will obviously be stated in your contract,

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Speaker 1: as you noticed when you were reading yours. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: if you've stayed with a company, beck for two years,

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Speaker 1: you might actually receive between four and six weeks worth

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Speaker 1: of pay in lieu of you working out your notice period.

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Speaker 1: Often and if an employer has made you redundant, they

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Speaker 1: would actually prefer you to wrap up immediately because there's

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Speaker 1: nothing to wrap up.

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Speaker 4: Like it's a bit awkward.

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Speaker 1: Ye, it's a little bit awkward, but also like wrap

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Speaker 1: up because we've deemed this job like useless basically we

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Speaker 1: don't need it anymore, so like why do it for

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Speaker 1: another four to six weeks? That doesn't make a lot

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Speaker 1: of sense, and you essentially then don't work through your notice.

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Speaker 1: You just go home and still get paid. There are

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Speaker 1: many redundancy calculators online that might actually help you to

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Speaker 1: understand what you could receive. So if you're thinking about

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Speaker 1: like fire out, I'm going to be made redundant, start

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Speaker 1: looking up a redundancy calculator. But if you're in a

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Speaker 1: job and you've been in that job for nine ten years,

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Speaker 1: you can actually be looking at sixteen whole weeks of payback.

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Speaker 4: That sounds pretty sweet.

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Speaker 1: Sixteen weeks of pay all right, pretty well, spend some

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Speaker 1: of that time finding a new job.

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Speaker 4: No waries. But I'm also thinking, like, you do have

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Speaker 4: to pay tax on that, So you.

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Speaker 1: Do, but yes and no, so it's not like the

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Speaker 1: tax that you're paying on your current package right now now,

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Speaker 1: beckh okay, So there is actually a tax free limit

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Speaker 1: because you're being reade redundant, and obviously it's not you're

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Speaker 1: being fired like the government does look after us in

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Speaker 1: this way. So the redundancy payout is actually designed to

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Speaker 1: provide you with income while you're looking for a new role. However,

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Speaker 1: there is a limit on what is tax free. So

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Speaker 1: the base payout limit is eleven thousand, nine hundred and

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Speaker 1: eighty five dollars and an additional five thousand, nine hundred

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Speaker 1: and ninety four dollars for every year of service. So

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Speaker 1: say you work for a company for three years, the

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Speaker 1: most you can get in redundancy tax free is twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: nine hundred and sixty seven dollars, which is actually quite

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Speaker 1: a lot of money if you ask me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, so that's minimum tax free. I thought you

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Speaker 4: gonna say Max, no, you can get paid out, and

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Speaker 4: I was gonna be like, wow, that doesn't sound as good.

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Speaker 1: It's a pretty good number. And that's why I guess

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Speaker 1: when people go, oh, redundancy package, if you've never been

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Speaker 1: through it, like, there's no reason why you would understand

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Speaker 1: how the tax on that works. Yeah, but the tax

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Speaker 1: is very favorable to make sure that you're in a

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Speaker 1: financially secure position and have enough time and money to

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Speaker 1: find a new job, because again, you're not being fired,

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Speaker 1: the role has been made redundant. That doesn't make you

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Speaker 1: a bad employee totally.

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Speaker 4: It kind of makes me think though, like, if you're

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Speaker 4: a small business and you can't afford one to keep

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Speaker 4: paying someone for a job that's redundant, but you also

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Speaker 4: kin't afford the payout, how would they go about affording that?

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Speaker 1: Well, any good employer should have a very good budget

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Speaker 1: and cash flow system and have it planned out in

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Speaker 1: case these things happen, I see, because that would be

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Speaker 1: the right thing to do, But it really depends on

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Speaker 1: how small the business is. So in Australia there is

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Speaker 1: actually a small business exemption, which is important to understand

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Speaker 1: because it can be good and bad. Like working for

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Speaker 1: a small business is great, but there are a few

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Speaker 1: risks that you take on when you choose to do that.

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Speaker 1: But it means that a business with under fifteen staff

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Speaker 1: generally avoid the redundancy payout requirements, So doesn't matter how

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Speaker 1: long you've worked for them if they're a small business.

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Speaker 1: And it's kind of like a bit like murky waters,

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Speaker 1: I'd say, because unfair dismissal might come into play if

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Speaker 1: there's not a valid reason for the redundancy. It's not

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Speaker 1: like a blanket get out of jail free card for

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Speaker 1: the small business. So like if you worked for a

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Speaker 1: small business, as like a video editor and they had

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Speaker 1: less than fifteen employees and they're like, look, becky're being

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Speaker 1: made redundant. Sorry, like you're a small business, don't need

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Speaker 1: to pay you out?

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Speaker 2: Yah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah great, And then you see them advertising the same

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Speaker 1: role a month later on C Yeah cool, straight to

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Speaker 1: VCaP oh like we're recording that cheap. That's illegal.

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Speaker 4: That's good to know. Okay, So what sort of industries

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Speaker 4: are you likely to get made redundant from?

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Speaker 1: Okay? So, like there's no industry that's actually safe from redundancy,

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Speaker 1: but there are some when I did some research that

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Speaker 1: are a little bit more common than others. For example,

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Speaker 1: the average quarterly redundancy for the construction industry is eleven thousand,

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Speaker 1: nine hundred people, and retail is eight thousand, two hundred people.

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Speaker 1: Where on the lower end is like education and training

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Speaker 1: and that is two thousand, seven hundred people.

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Speaker 4: I feel very scared all of a sudden.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't feel scared in your job.

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Speaker 4: They need you, do you say exactly?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like they are very reliant on you, like desperado.

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Speaker 4: That actually is music to my ears. Stick around because

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Speaker 4: after the break, we will be looking at how to

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Speaker 4: use your redundancy to your advantage in conversations you should

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Speaker 4: be having at job interviews about redundancy. Smart Okay, V

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Speaker 4: we are back and we've talked about what redundancy is

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Speaker 4: and how it works, but how do we use it

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Speaker 4: to our advantage?

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Speaker 1: All right, So redundancy can be super hard and I

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Speaker 1: don't want to take away from that because it can

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Speaker 1: be really, really emotional. My partner's been made redundant, and

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Speaker 1: the emotional rollercoaster you go through because well, you're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, that's fine, he can find another job. Oh

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Speaker 1: how exciting he's going to get a payout, Oh far out?

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Speaker 1: Like what if there's not another job that he likes? Like,

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Speaker 1: it's an emotional period of time. And while the money

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Speaker 1: side of things can be like a little bit sexy,

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Speaker 1: like I'd prefer you just have a stable job. Yet

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Speaker 1: for sure, I actually don't want to change jobs right now,

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Speaker 1: like he wasn't looking for a new job. But redundancy

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Speaker 1: can actually set you up with some flexibility if the

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Speaker 1: stars aligned, And by that, I mean what you can

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Speaker 1: do when you get made redundant to then set yourself up. So,

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Speaker 1: my friend, let me give you an example. Are you

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Speaker 1: ready If you were with an employer for two years

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Speaker 1: and you received eight weeks pay and one month's notice

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Speaker 1: your employer they might make you work the month or

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Speaker 1: they might just like let you wrap up immediately, depending

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Speaker 1: everywhere is different. In either case, this is going to

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Speaker 1: be eight weeks lead time for you to find yourself

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Speaker 1: a new role. Right, redundancy it's not like termination, and

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Speaker 1: it actually doesn't look bad on your resume at all.

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Speaker 1: So like someone who is interviewing you is not going

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Speaker 1: to go, oh, Beck, you got my redundant, like I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go oh great. Beck probably didn't want to leave

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Speaker 1: that job. Maybe she's like a very valuable asset. I

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Speaker 1: probably do want to interview her and look into her.

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Speaker 1: So if I was to get made redundant today, I

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Speaker 1: would actually be applying for jobs from day one, be waiting.

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Speaker 1: I would be calling up recruiters. I would be reaching

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Speaker 1: out to my network. Because if you're wrapped up immediately

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Speaker 1: and you landed a job starting in two weeks, you're

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Speaker 1: practically getting six weeks worth of free payback. Ah that's

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Speaker 1: so that's money mean that can go into your emergency fund.

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Speaker 1: And because some of it would have been tax free,

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit more than what you were going

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Speaker 1: to expect it to be. So it's quicker that you act.

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Speaker 1: The more advantage you might be giving yourself, And it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like getting an end of employment bonus. If

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Speaker 1: you time getting a new job correctly. You could also

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Speaker 1: use this as like a fresh start. Maybe you've really

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Speaker 1: wanted to try out like a different industry. This is

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Speaker 1: your push, my friend, this is your opportunity to kind

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Speaker 1: of like dabble in a new career. Okay, to reframe it,

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Speaker 1: make it exciting.

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Speaker 4: That douns sound kind of exciting. So we've covered a

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Speaker 4: lot today, But what about negotiating a redundancy package? Is

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Speaker 4: that something you actually like can do? And if so,

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Speaker 4: how to go about it?

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Speaker 1: Negotiate everything. Negotiating a redundancy package is actually possible. It's

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Speaker 1: essential to cover factors like length of service, your role,

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Speaker 1: and any additional benefits. But say you have access to

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Speaker 1: a company car, like and currently you have a work phone,

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Speaker 1: you could potentially negotiate benefits to negate the loss of those.

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Speaker 1: So one, make sure you read your contracts. But like,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't hurt to ask, does it totally keep the car?

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Speaker 4: Maybe?

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Speaker 1: Yeh, keep the car like if you can, but more

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Speaker 1: likely be able to keep the phone. Be like, oh, hey,

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Speaker 1: like I don't have a phone. Is there any way

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Speaker 1: we can just work that into the contract so that

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Speaker 1: when you sign the dotted line you don't have to

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Speaker 1: give the iPhone back.

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Speaker 4: Not a bad ita money we you know, when you're

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Speaker 4: doing references and stuff like that, can you like use

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Speaker 4: the people that made your redundant as a reference?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, you can.

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Speaker 4: It depends on maybe a relationship with.

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Speaker 1: That well, I mean, yeah, you're not. Can you use

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Speaker 1: someone that you have a dodgy relationship with for a

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Speaker 1: reference to begin with? You probably weren't going to go

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Speaker 1: and apply for a new job and then quit and

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Speaker 1: still use that person. Right, totally, But you could do

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Speaker 1: even better. Some workplaces actually have job search assistance, so

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Speaker 1: you might get made redundant and then the HR department

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Speaker 1: actually might step in and assist you in the right

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Speaker 1: direction in like resume riding and support, or they might

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Speaker 1: have insights to career opportunities outside of your current company

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Speaker 1: that you didn't know about, so these could be a

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Speaker 1: good push in the right direction. But yes, you can

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Speaker 1: absolutely use your current employer who's just made you redundant

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Speaker 1: as a reference. Like they didn't fire you, they've made

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Speaker 1: you redundant, And so the conversation would be like, oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, we are so sad to be losing Beck.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't about Beck, it was about the role, Like

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Speaker 1: we just don't need that role performed anymore. Should be

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Speaker 1: an absolute asset to your company, and often you can go,

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Speaker 1: all right, well, I'm being made redundant. Can I just

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Speaker 1: get like a letter of recommendation that I can pop

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Speaker 1: with my resume, so like it's just so clean and

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Speaker 1: so easy to begin with, And that's another option as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it might even be better than getting fired or.

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Speaker 1: Oh iRED present. No, everything when it comes to redundancy

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Speaker 1: is better than getting fired, like on your resume is

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Speaker 1: not ideal.

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Speaker 4: But the relationships, even if you're quitting, it's kind of like,

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Speaker 4: well they aree you something now yeah, yeah, actually you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Well, won't frame it that way, but like, yeah, you're right,

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Speaker 1: because it's kind of like, hey, you did this to me.

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Speaker 1: I didn't try and leave you. I was loyal, so

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Speaker 1: loyala now go tell people that I'm really good.

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Speaker 4: Aha. So what should I be asking my job interview

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Speaker 4: when it comes to redundancy?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So it's probably not a question that's going to

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Speaker 1: come up very often. It's definitely not the first question

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Speaker 1: you want to ask. When it gets down to like

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Speaker 1: the nitty gritty, you're going I want to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they actually have good policies in place and you'll

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Speaker 1: find these in your employment contract, but i'd be asking

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Speaker 1: what their employment retention looks like, so I knew how

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Speaker 1: secure the job would be in the future. Like i'd

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Speaker 1: be asking what actually is the policy when it comes

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Speaker 1: to redundancy, and you know how that looks if you're worried.

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Speaker 1: It's not something that needs to come up in a

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Speaker 1: job interview, though, Like I don't want you going, oh well,

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Speaker 1: I'll ask them about redundancy. They'll be like, why do

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Speaker 1: you want a redundancy package? You haven't even started here.

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Speaker 1: But I'd be asking what that policy is, what it

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Speaker 1: looks like. And i'd also be asking what opportunities for

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Speaker 1: growth currently exist in the company that you're joining, because

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Speaker 1: they might have another option down the line, move into

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Speaker 1: a new role when your role doesn't exist. So that's

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Speaker 1: called redeployment, where you would be made redundant from one

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Speaker 1: role and then just rehired in another area of the business,

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Speaker 1: which would also be a slagh if you like the business.

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Speaker 4: Okay, it doesn't seem so scary to me anymore, but

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Speaker 4: I guess like we're talking more financially, but there's like

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Speaker 4: the whole emotional side to it as well.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent feels like trash. Let's be honest, Like,

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Speaker 1: no one's going to go yay jump for joy got

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Speaker 1: made redundant. I mean when Steve got made redundant, we

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Speaker 1: weren't upset. We were like, oh, good, that helps us

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Speaker 1: financially significantly. This is probably too much information and I

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Speaker 1: kind of don't mind. But because he worked for that

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Speaker 1: employee for nine years back, so we were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is not the worst thing to happen, is that?

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Speaker 4: But he did pay up?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but he did like the company and like they had,

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Speaker 1: you know, really good policies, and he's like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: could go back at some point, Like when you get

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Speaker 1: made redundant, it's not like no forever, Like you could

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Speaker 1: definitely like apply for another job in that company if

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Speaker 1: you love them so much and still want to continue

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Speaker 1: working for them. Like it's them slamming the door in

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Speaker 1: your face and me like, I can't believe we finally

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Speaker 1: got rid of Beck, Like it's not like that at all.

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Speaker 1: It can seem really scary, but I think taking it

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Speaker 1: in your stride and taking a redundancy by the horns

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Speaker 1: and going all right, I know this is overwhelming, but

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Speaker 1: let's get back on track as soon as possible. How

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Speaker 1: quickly can I land a new role? Because you might

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Speaker 1: end up with six weeks worth of pay in an

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Speaker 1: emergency fund and a brand new role that you love

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Speaker 1: and a team that you thrive in, and you're in

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Speaker 1: such a better position, Like, let's reframe it and go, well,

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Speaker 1: what can I get out of this? Yeah, Like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you might have been thinking about how you're like I

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Speaker 1: love my job. I really do pretty underpaid, but like

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Speaker 1: I still love my job. Now you're gonna get equal pay, Like,

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Speaker 1: isn't that really exciting? I think it is. I feel

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Speaker 1: like emotionally, yeah, it's a massive challenge and it definitely

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Speaker 1: is a bit of a shock to the system. But

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Speaker 1: I think you're allowed to have a range of emotions

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Speaker 1: at this time. Your whole world has literally been flipped

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Speaker 1: upside down, and humans inherently do not like change, beck,

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Speaker 1: like unless they've instigated that change in control of it. Like,

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Speaker 1: we're not that excited to have our job not exist

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Speaker 1: one day. Yeah, you know, like it's not gonna work,

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Speaker 1: and you should genuinely be seeking out some support as well,

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Speaker 1: Like it's hard from friends or family, your employer might have,

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Speaker 1: you know, professional counseling that you can use during that process.

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Speaker 1: They definitely should be letting you know what your options are.

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Speaker 1: It's although understanding that you know. It's not a reflection

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Speaker 1: of your worth. It's not a reflection of your work ethic,

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Speaker 1: it's not a reflection of how good you were as

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Speaker 1: an employee. It's actually just is what it is, and

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Speaker 1: it's about starting a new chapter.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, true, that's a really good perspective. Actually, thank you.

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Speaker 4: It's mine incredible that brain of yours. Honestly, so all

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Speaker 4: they've got. Now, though, Beck, do you have any advice

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Speaker 4: for a community who might be facing redundancy or in

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Speaker 4: the process of job hunting after being made redundant.

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Speaker 1: I feel like what I said before, it's not reflective

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Speaker 1: of your worth, ye, Like I think so many times

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Speaker 1: we tie our professional success to our personal worth, and like,

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Speaker 1: to me, that's the dumbest thing in the entire world.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't care if you're a doctor or a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: or you're the add me an assistant, or you know,

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Speaker 1: you clean the wheels on a train, Like I could

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Speaker 1: not care less if you're a good and kind human.

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Speaker 1: I care so much more about you than what your

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Speaker 1: career like stipulates. You are right, I just don't care.

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Speaker 1: It's not how I pick friends. It's not how you

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Speaker 1: should pick friends, like we keep company. That is kind right,

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Speaker 1: So you need to know first that it's not a

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Speaker 1: reflection of your worth in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 1: But once you realize that and you've gotten through the

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Speaker 1: shock of it, I would want you to be really

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Speaker 1: proactive and use your current job as an opportunity. Use

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Speaker 1: the time during that notice period or immediately after to

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Speaker 1: upskill and networking, explore new job opportunities, and remember it's

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Speaker 1: not just an end, but a potential beginning of something

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Speaker 1: even better.

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Speaker 4: Wow. Beautiful? Is that? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: I think so full of it sometimes, But I think

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Speaker 1: I did good this time there.

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Speaker 4: I feel really motivated.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's leave it before I make it up.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. We will see you guys bright

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Speaker 1: and early on Friday for a little catch up of

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Speaker 1: the week. But till then, have the best week and

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Speaker 1: we love you very much. Bye, guys.

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Speaker 5: general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances.

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