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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, your problem is you don't know how to let go. Yes,

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Speaker 2: as soon as you figure that out, you're going to

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Speaker 2: go really deep.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Hello.

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Speaker 4: This is doctor Justin Colson, the author of six books

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Speaker 4: about raising happy families and the founder of Happy Families

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Speaker 4: dot com dot au.

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Speaker 3: Normally I'm with.

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Speaker 4: My wife, my co host, Kylie, mum to our six daughters.

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Speaker 4: But during the school holidays around most of the country,

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Speaker 4: Kylie and I have taken the opportunity to spend some

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Speaker 4: quality family time with our kids, and we hope that

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Speaker 4: you're doing the same. However, we wanted to keep the

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Speaker 4: podcast going because some people's routines still the way.

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Speaker 3: They always were.

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Speaker 4: And on today's podcast, we're looking back at my parenting

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Speaker 4: in Perspective interview series which we published last year. On

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Speaker 4: episode one, one nine, I spoke with Aunt Williams. As

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Speaker 4: one of the deepest men in the world. Aunt has

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Speaker 4: pushed through both the physical and mental barriers to hold

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Speaker 4: his breath for over eight minutes. He's dived to one

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Speaker 4: hundred meters under the surface, and he can swim two

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Speaker 4: hundred and forty meters on one breath. That's nearly five

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Speaker 4: laps of an Olympic sized swimming pall. In short, he

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Speaker 4: knows how to overcome some of the most demanding and

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Speaker 4: uncomfortable challenges that a person can face. Ant teaches others

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Speaker 4: how to lean into discomfort and take positive.

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Speaker 3: Calculated risk.

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Speaker 4: So I started by asking Aunt about what parents should

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Speaker 4: do when they're feeling out of their depth.

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Speaker 2: I was quite fascinated by this around Why was such

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Speaker 2: a deal for me, and because I think it's it's

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Speaker 2: this type of imposts syndrome where you feel that you're

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Speaker 2: in a position of authority or responsibility helping support others,

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Speaker 2: in my case in athletes in my sport.

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Speaker 3: Yet I felt like a true impost I.

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Speaker 2: Think that when you first had your, you know, a child,

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Speaker 2: then there's this belief that you're automatic be a great

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Speaker 2: parent because you're a wonderful person, and you buy into

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Speaker 2: this right and then you.

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Speaker 3: Realize that it's actually really hard and that you're.

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Speaker 2: Ill equipped, and then you sort of, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I think you do one of two things. There are

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Speaker 2: those amongst us who seem to adapt very quickly and

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Speaker 2: try to figure it out and put invest a lot

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Speaker 2: of energy. And then there are those of us who

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Speaker 2: are more stubborn and just go, this is just who

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Speaker 2: I am. It's being more authentic to myself, and you know,

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Speaker 2: you're just going to get what you receive from me,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure if it's anything like what I received,

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Speaker 2: then you will be fine. And we don't adapt, We

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Speaker 2: just kind of pursue and push forward. I've been freedoming

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Speaker 2: for eighteen years, and I still would find that on

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Speaker 2: probably thirty or forty percent of my dives, especially the

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Speaker 2: deeper ones, I would experience fear or a sense that

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Speaker 2: I need to be able.

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Speaker 3: To control everything but I can't.

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Speaker 2: Freedoming did teach me something quite early on, which was

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Speaker 2: actually to let go of that need to feel like

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Speaker 2: I should be in full control the whole time, but

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Speaker 2: to more follow us set of principles and guidelines that

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Speaker 2: I knew would keep me safe through each dive. And

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Speaker 2: it took me a long time to to evolve those.

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Speaker 2: But an early mistake that I think I kept doing

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Speaker 2: for I reckon about a decade was diving with lots

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Speaker 2: of fear feeling that as long as I puffed up

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Speaker 2: my chest and asserted my control and dominance in each dive,

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Speaker 2: that I would get deeper than any other athlete. And

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Speaker 2: then I found that all most other athletes started to

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Speaker 2: go past me in terms of how deep they were going,

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Speaker 2: and I got stuck at a particular depth because that

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Speaker 2: approach was no longer serving me well. And I think

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Speaker 2: that there's some interesting analogies when I think of my

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Speaker 2: own experience in parenting as well of trying to exert

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Speaker 2: control or convince my kids that they should do it

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Speaker 2: my way, I need to find that actually, if I

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Speaker 2: took a step backwards and looked at it more holistically

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Speaker 2: and turned the volume down on my ego, that actually

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Speaker 2: might find a farm more effective way of getting the

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Speaker 2: outcomes with my kids that are truly need.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 5: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having

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Speaker 5: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts

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Speaker 5: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits

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Speaker 5: with love, compassion, and humanity. Find it now at happy

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Speaker 5: families dot com dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 4: or parent who just wants answers now, And we're continuing

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Speaker 4: a conversation with Aunt Williams, one of the deepest free

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Speaker 4: divers in the world. It's really interesting that as well,

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Speaker 4: the way you say that, Aunt, because I'm thinking, you know,

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Speaker 4: those strategies that served you well until you got to

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Speaker 4: that particular depth let's say, for example, forty meters. Those

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Speaker 4: strategies worked until that point. And I think as parents

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Speaker 4: we kind of get into patterns and we implement strategies

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Speaker 4: at a certain level. But once our children get to

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Speaker 4: a particular depth, that is, once they get to three

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Speaker 4: or four or seven, we need to do something different

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Speaker 4: because they've changed and we can't stay in that same pattern.

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Speaker 4: But what about the pressure? You know, you describe the

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Speaker 4: extraordinary pressure lungs the size of a grapefruit, feeling like

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Speaker 4: you're being impaled and the ball is being pulled through

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Speaker 4: your body and out the other side. As parents, we

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Speaker 4: feel tremendous pressure. We feel in some ways that our

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Speaker 4: children are doing some high pressure things to us. How

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Speaker 4: do you deal with that pressure when you're under the water,

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Speaker 4: And what does that teachers about parenting?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is I think possibly the greatest thing

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Speaker 2: that free diving has taught me, in fact is and

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Speaker 2: it was a hard lesson to learn it genuinely, was

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Speaker 2: was that if I wanted to get deeper than fifty meters,

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Speaker 2: then I had to change something fundamentally, not in my

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Speaker 2: physicality or my technique or my equipment, but in my mindset.

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Speaker 2: And I think for me, it's the same for parenting.

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Speaker 2: Just like you said, you just need a different game

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Speaker 2: plan in order to, you know, to deal with new challenges.

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Speaker 3: And for ten years, I actually it was a ten years.

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Speaker 2: No, it's probably five years I was stuck at fifty

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Speaker 2: meters and then ten years I was stuck at another

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Speaker 2: block which was eighty meters. And for the fifty meters

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Speaker 2: one was it was actually coincidental. It was someone else

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Speaker 2: who gave me the guidance by saying something very extraordinary

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Speaker 2: to me. I was at a master free diving camp

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Speaker 2: over in Turkey, and I remember it was the final

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Speaker 2: day of coaching and training after two weeks in Turkey,

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Speaker 2: and this in a plot called.

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Speaker 3: Cash and we're out on a boat.

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Speaker 2: It was awful conditions with white caps and waves, and

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Speaker 2: there was only sort of six of us and some

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Speaker 2: of the top free divers in the world and the

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Speaker 2: best freeedoving coach in the world was there. And I

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Speaker 2: was there, suited up, thinking there's no way any of

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Speaker 2: us are going to dive today. These conditions are atrocious,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't say that because I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: be seen as the sook in the group.

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Speaker 3: And there was this.

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Speaker 2: One guy, his name was Toppy lutten Hungers, who was

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Speaker 2: a finished guy, and he was the world record holder

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Speaker 2: and swimming down to extraordinary depths with no fins on whatsoever,

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Speaker 2: and he hadn't really said a word to anyone for

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Speaker 2: two weeks. He was like the most introverted guy I've

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Speaker 2: ever met. Anyway, I was there freaking out. It was

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Speaker 2: the last day and I hadn't got past my fifty

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Speaker 2: bloody meters and I went and sat down down on

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Speaker 2: the transom so the back of the boat, just about

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Speaker 2: to get in the water, and I sat next to

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Speaker 2: Toppy and he didn't say word. I didn't say word,

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Speaker 2: And as I was putting on my mask, he turned

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Speaker 2: around he looked at me and he said, you know

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Speaker 2: your problem And I just looked at him, went, what

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Speaker 2: cause your problem is you don't know how to let go.

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Speaker 3: You try to fight.

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Speaker 2: Any time you try to fight, you get stuck, your

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Speaker 2: ears lock up, you're tense up, and then you turn

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Speaker 2: around and you have to come back because you can't

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Speaker 2: bloody equalize.

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Speaker 3: Mate.

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Speaker 2: He is Your problem is you don't know how to

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Speaker 2: let go yaus. As soon as you figure that out,

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Speaker 2: you're going to go really deep. And then he just

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Speaker 2: got in the water and the bugger swum off. I

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Speaker 2: was like, hang on a second, what did you mean

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Speaker 2: by that? And the weird thing was is that then

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Speaker 2: I swam out. When it was my turn, I went

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Speaker 2: out to the rope and yeah, the conditions were awful,

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Speaker 2: waves of breaking over my mouth as I was trying

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Speaker 2: to breathe up, and all I could think was this,

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Speaker 2: this bagger had put this idea into my mind to

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Speaker 2: let go. And the whole way down on my swim,

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling all uncomfortable and been out of shape, but

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Speaker 2: over and over in my mind it's saying let go,

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Speaker 2: and then as I sail past forty meters, again, in

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Speaker 2: my mind it's just saying let go, and then I

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Speaker 2: sail past fifty meters, I sail past sixty meters and

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Speaker 2: it ends up turning at sixty eight meters and swimming

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Speaker 2: back up, and it was the weirdest thing ever like it.

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Speaker 2: It felt like a beautiful dive. It actually did feel

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Speaker 2: in control, even though I'd released my sense of control.

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Speaker 2: And it was the biggest shift I've ever made in

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Speaker 2: free diving. I'm annoyed that it took me ten years

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Speaker 2: or five years to make that shift, and that it

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Speaker 2: took one very strange comment.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes that's all it takes.

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Speaker 2: There's just some insight or inspiration from somewhere else to

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Speaker 2: give you that breakthrough that you know.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to suggest that parents need to let go,

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Speaker 4: but if letting go was a useful strategy, and frankly,

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Speaker 4: I think that letting go of control is a very

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Speaker 4: important parenting strategy, how would you advise somebody to let go?

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Speaker 4: How does a parent make that switch where they still

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Speaker 4: care about the outcome? I mean, clearly, as a free dive,

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Speaker 4: you don't want to die, you want to get back

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Speaker 4: to the surface. You very much care about the outcome.

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Speaker 4: So how do you continue to guide your children, care

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Speaker 4: about the outcome and help them to move in an

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Speaker 4: ideal direction while being while having that level of detachment,

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Speaker 4: that ability to let go. How does a parent do

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Speaker 4: that in real life in a practical way.

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Speaker 2: Well, for me, it's about realizing that I am part

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Speaker 2: of the issue, and that's hard, I think to accept

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Speaker 2: on a number of occasions when we see our kids

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Speaker 2: being unruly, as you think, this is my kid being unruly,

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Speaker 2: and it's it's them. It's they've got to fix this,

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to tell them how to fix this,

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Speaker 2: and they should listen to me because I'm the adult

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Speaker 2: and I know best. Whereas in fact, we still want

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Speaker 2: the same outcome. We want to get our kids through

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Speaker 2: something that's you know, a significant challenge. The insight for

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Speaker 2: me from the free diving has been I still want

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Speaker 2: the right outcome, which is to go deeper. I want

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Speaker 2: to feel that experience of being successful with that, but

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Speaker 2: I have to I have to be more humble. I

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Speaker 2: actually have to acknowledge that what I'm doing is not

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Speaker 2: working in this situation and I have to be open

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Speaker 2: to different paths to change it up. And you know,

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Speaker 2: when I figured that out in free diving, it was

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Speaker 2: monumental for me. I think it took me years before

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Speaker 2: I then learned how to take that insight and apply

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Speaker 2: it to how I was parenting, and I still don't

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Speaker 2: get it right all the time. There's no way, but

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Speaker 2: I catch myself more often now going what outcome am

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Speaker 2: I really after hear? What's the best outcome from my

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Speaker 2: son and my daughter? And what else can I try

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Speaker 2: if I'm if I put my ego to one side

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Speaker 2: and explore different paths and what does my child really

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Speaker 2: need from me today or right in this moment, and

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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to be open to explore different ways

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Speaker 2: of being for my children.

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Speaker 3: That's and Williams.

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Speaker 4: You can hear his full interview on episode one hundred

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Speaker 4: and nineteen of the Parenting and Perspective podcast series.

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Speaker 3: Kylie and I back tomorrow with.

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Speaker 4: Another episode of the Happy Families podcast, and we're looking

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Speaker 4: forward to reconnecting with you after the school holidays. If

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Speaker 4: you're enjoying the podcast, we love those ratings and reviews.

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Speaker 4: You can jump onto the Apple podcast app and tell

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Speaker 4: us what you think about podcast. It helps other people

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Speaker 4: to find out about the podcast to make their family happier.

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Speaker 4: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from

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Speaker 4: Bridge Media, and our executive producer is Craig Bruce. If

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Speaker 4: you'd like more details about how your family can be happier,

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Speaker 4: just visit the website happyfamilies dot com dot au a