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Speaker 1: And it is that time time for the week that

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Speaker 1: was and joining me in the studio this morning. We've

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Speaker 1: got the colp's Bill Yan, good morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie, great to be back.

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Speaker 1: Good to have you in the studio. We've got nine

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Speaker 1: News Darwin's Kathleen Gazola, good morning. And we've got the

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Speaker 1: Attorney General Chancey Pai, good morning. Great have you all

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Speaker 1: in the studio this morning. I'll make sure Chancey's microphone's

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Speaker 1: right there for him so I can hear him this morning. Now,

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Speaker 1: there is no doubt that there has been so much

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Speaker 1: on the agenda this week. In fact, in the last

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours, there's been a lot going on, enough

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Speaker 1: for us to fill up a whole hour of the show,

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Speaker 1: I would suggest, in the last twenty four hours, and

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Speaker 1: never never any trouble with us talking. Now, let me

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Speaker 1: go first to the age of criminal responsibility changes. We

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Speaker 1: do know that the Northern Territory Government is raising the

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Speaker 1: minimum age of criminal responsibility from ten to twelve years old,

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Speaker 1: with legislation to be introduced well it was yesterday and

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Speaker 1: debated in November. The Northern Territory Government says that the

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Speaker 1: commencement well from commencement if a child eleven years or

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Speaker 1: under engages in concerning behavior, they'll be dealt with by

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Speaker 1: no longer by the Northern Territory Police as my understanding,

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Speaker 1: but they will be dealt with by territory families. I

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Speaker 1: think in the first instance potentially the police, but then

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Speaker 1: it will be through territory families referring the child and

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Speaker 1: their family to what has been described as intensive parenting

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Speaker 1: programs as well as behavioral change programs. Now, it was

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Speaker 1: a lot for people to take in. I think yesterday

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Speaker 1: we all knew that it was coming, like we all

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Speaker 1: knew that the age of criminal responsibility was going to

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Speaker 1: be changed. It was a recommendation of the Royal Commission.

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Speaker 1: But I think the surprise to everybody was the timing

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Speaker 1: of it, because we've got a situation where people in

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs saying that they've reached absolute crisis level. We've

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Speaker 1: spoken to the chair of Tourism Central Australia on Wednesday

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Speaker 1: this week where he'd told me about tourists being spat on,

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Speaker 1: somebody being assaulted in the Visitor Information Center, which we've

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Speaker 1: known about a couple of weeks ago, and that sense

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Speaker 1: that there was no control of what is going on. Now.

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Speaker 1: I totally understand that children aged eleven and under represent

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Speaker 1: a very small amount of the crime that is being

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Speaker 1: committed around the Northern Territory, but I think there was

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Speaker 1: a real sense from the community this week that the

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Speaker 1: government had mixed their priorities up.

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Speaker 3: Anything.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, of course, I love to talk about this.

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Speaker 5: I got to introduce it. Yeah, look again, it's a

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Speaker 5: recommendation of the Royal Commission. But I think it's really

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Speaker 5: important to highlight here that what this does is it

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Speaker 5: actually goes to the core of breaking that cycle of

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Speaker 5: reoffending because the earlier we're getting young people into the

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Speaker 5: criminal justice system, it absolutely embeds their relationship with that system.

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Speaker 5: And we know that the earliest that they go in,

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Speaker 5: the more prolonged that journey is. So what this is

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Speaker 5: about is it's absolutely saying that young people need to

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Speaker 5: be directed away from the criminal justice system. Now, police

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Speaker 5: will still have the powers under the Care and Protection

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Speaker 5: Act to investigate antisocial behavior and all forms of crime,

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Speaker 5: and they'll have the power to still take those children

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Speaker 5: into custody while they find a safe place for them.

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Speaker 5: The range of programs there are about directing that young

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Speaker 5: person away so that they don't go into these youth

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Speaker 5: detention centers and learn the tricks of the trade from

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Speaker 5: the older cohort that are in there. This is about

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Speaker 5: saying we need to we need that circuit breaker, and

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Speaker 5: we need to do that intensive support the restorative justice

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Speaker 5: and those programs, because again this is evidence based.

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Speaker 6: I think what most people or the people I've certainly

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Speaker 6: had spoken to yesterday, who were against this or concerned

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Speaker 6: about it, were concerned about those programs itself that are

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Speaker 6: meant to direct them away.

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Speaker 3: I mean, no one wants to see.

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Speaker 6: Ten year olds in detention, and as everyone has said,

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Speaker 6: it is a rare asian for a ten year old

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Speaker 6: or under twelve to go to detention. So the reason

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Speaker 6: why the government hadn't brought this in sooner is because

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Speaker 6: they were waiting for these programs to come into place

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Speaker 6: to provide those alternatives for those young people. But I mean,

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Speaker 6: I don't know if you agree with me, Katie, but

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Speaker 6: we haven't seen those programs. Clearly, those programs are in

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Speaker 6: place at the moment, they're not working because we're seeing

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Speaker 6: those young people do more crimes, more often and becoming

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Speaker 6: far more violent.

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Speaker 1: Well that's exactly right, and that I think is the

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Speaker 1: concerning point. And I've got to say I was a

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Speaker 1: little bit concerned listening to Parliament yesterday when there were

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Speaker 1: questions being asked about, you know, about different instances that

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Speaker 1: have occurred of late No no Chancey. I'd raised a

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Speaker 1: few of those with you yesterday morning when i'd interviewed you.

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Speaker 1: One in particular that made me feel really quite sad

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Speaker 1: was the thirteen year old autistic boy whose grandma I'd

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Speaker 1: spoken to on the radio a few weeks back, who'd

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Speaker 1: allegedly been assaulted by ten and eleven year old kids.

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Speaker 1: And then I heard in Parliament yesterday the minister saying,

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Speaker 1: you know that it's it's ingenuous to be talking about

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Speaker 1: specific cases, but the thing is it's really important that

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Speaker 1: we actually think about those victims and that space to it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what is at the end of the day.

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Speaker 7: And the police came out yesterday, the Police Association came

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Speaker 7: out yesterday and said that they don't support this change.

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Speaker 7: It's going to make their job harder. It's certainly not

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Speaker 7: going to do anything to reduce the crime that we're seeing,

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Speaker 7: and sadly, I think in some cases it's going to

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Speaker 7: empower some of those younger people know that they're not

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Speaker 7: going to be responsible for any of the crimes that they.

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Speaker 2: Commit to go out and do more, and.

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Speaker 7: Of course seeing young people exploited by older, older kids

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Speaker 7: and adults, knowing that those younger people won't be able

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Speaker 7: to be prosecuted for what they do. And I agree,

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Speaker 7: I don't want to see ten and eleven year olds

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Speaker 7: in custodate. We've already the mechanisms are already in place

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Speaker 7: now Section.

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Speaker 2: Forty three the Criminal Code Act.

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Speaker 7: I believe it says that the prosecution has to prove

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Speaker 7: that the young person was responsible and knew what they

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Speaker 7: were doing was wrong, and that's already in place now,

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Speaker 7: and we see very very few young people going into

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Speaker 7: that justice system because of that. And Dolly Incapax, I

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Speaker 7: think that piece of legislation also does the same thing.

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Speaker 7: So I agree that the timing of this, I think

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Speaker 7: is probably not great. It doesn't send the right message

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Speaker 7: to the people in the community.

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Speaker 1: So I think what's really important this morning is for

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Speaker 1: the community to hear more about some of these programs

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Speaker 1: and more about some of what is going to go

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Speaker 1: on for those who do break the law and to

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Speaker 1: do the wrong thing. Because I know that, you know,

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Speaker 1: if my child was a victim of crime against you know,

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Speaker 1: by somebody who was a young person who was ten

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Speaker 1: or eleven, if I had somebody break into my home

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Speaker 1: who was that age, along with kids that were older.

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Speaker 1: Like we've all said, nobody wants to see young children

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Speaker 1: in jail. Nobody wants to see nine ten eleven year

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Speaker 1: olds in jail. Like I've said, I've got children that

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Speaker 1: very age. The thought of it makes me feel really

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Speaker 1: sad that anybody would be engaged in behavior like that.

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Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is here in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory we have that happening. So what are those programs,

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Speaker 1: Chancy so that we can give some kind of comfort

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Speaker 1: to the community that there is going to be ramifications

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Speaker 1: for their actions.

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Speaker 5: Look, I think when we're talking about programs and we're

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Speaker 5: talking about the types of activity that's happening, is certainly

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Speaker 5: acknowledging that Minister Warden has the portfolio of responsibility for

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Speaker 5: territory families and has done huge work and has been

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Speaker 5: up and down the track right across the territory looking

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Speaker 5: and working with these programs. You know, seven EMUs out

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Speaker 5: in the Barkley. She's been doing work in Alice Springs

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Speaker 5: with the back on track. I know that she's got

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Speaker 5: announcements next week that she'll be talking to around social

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Speaker 5: order responses and so forth.

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Speaker 4: So again, these are looking at.

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Speaker 5: The restorative justice practices, they're looking at that victim conferencing,

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Speaker 5: they're looking at these boot camps as people would call them.

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Speaker 4: But also as.

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Speaker 1: Part of this would see any of those boot camps

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Speaker 1: in play shift.

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Speaker 5: Look, I know that Minister Warden's done a huge amount

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Speaker 5: of work around those camps, whether they are in the

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Speaker 5: territory or whether they're Operation Flinders, but also acknowledging that

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Speaker 5: again part of this process is around forensic mental health

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Speaker 5: assessments and psychological assessments as well, to make sure that

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Speaker 5: when we're addressing those behaviors with those young children who

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Speaker 5: are you know, ten and eleven year olds, that we

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Speaker 5: work with them to give them the support mechanisms and

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Speaker 5: their families to.

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Speaker 4: Stop that behavior.

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Speaker 5: We've also Katie, let's be clear, we did bring in

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Speaker 5: legislation on ring leader legislation so that if there are

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Speaker 5: people over the age of twelve who are trying to

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Speaker 5: use a young person a child under the age of twelve,

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Speaker 5: then they very well, will be before the law, before

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Speaker 5: the court.

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Speaker 1: Now what I'm really keen to find out. Obviously I've

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Speaker 1: touched on the seven EMU station, you've touched on back

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Speaker 1: on Track, those victim conferencing and also boot camps. Now,

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Speaker 1: the last time I think that I've had a really

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Speaker 1: kind of heavy conversation about these kinds of programs was

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Speaker 1: probably when the former Chief Minister, Michael Gunner was in

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Speaker 1: and there were a lot of questions asked about the

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Speaker 1: success rate of these. Now he had said that there

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Speaker 1: was a thirty percent success rate. I believe it was,

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Speaker 1: or it may have been a bit more for one

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Speaker 1: of the particular places, but couldn't tell me how many

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Speaker 1: kids had gone through it. I think that if the

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Speaker 1: government wants to take the community along for this journey,

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Speaker 1: all of those numbers are going to need to come out.

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Speaker 1: We're going to need to get some really clear stats

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Speaker 1: on what's working what's not working. I know that the

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Speaker 1: Minister had said that Janet Kerr obviously doing that review

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Speaker 1: in Central Australia and looking to do the same here

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Speaker 1: in the Northern Suburbs and around Darwin. But people need

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Speaker 1: to know what is working and if we've got any

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Speaker 1: of them programs that are not working and it's wasting money,

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Speaker 1: then we need to focus on the areas yet a

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Speaker 1: good thing and make sure that we've got kids going

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Speaker 1: through it.

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Speaker 5: I think it's important to be clear here. Yes, I've

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Speaker 5: introduced the legislation. It's on the notice paper now, and

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Speaker 5: then we'll debate that in November. I have said right

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Speaker 5: from the onset that it has a deferred commencement and

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Speaker 5: I will not commence the legislation until I, as the

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Speaker 5: Attorney General, am satisfied that the programs and the supports

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Speaker 5: are in place, and then it'll be commencement by gazette.

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Speaker 5: So we are doing work out in the community now

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Speaker 5: with a number of other organizations in our urban centers

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Speaker 5: and in our larger remote.

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Speaker 4: Communities for these programs.

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Speaker 5: They are being co designed in some of those areas,

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Speaker 5: so I can give you that assurance. I am not

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Speaker 5: going to commence the legislation of the Act until I

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Speaker 5: am satisfied that those programs are in place, that they

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Speaker 5: are funded, and that we're ready to go.

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Speaker 1: What would as you see as being adequate? Then when

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Speaker 1: we talk about some of those different programs, what do

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Speaker 1: you think is going to be appropriate before you allow

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Speaker 1: that to happen.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Look, I think having the right mix of programs in place,

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Speaker 5: programs that are residential programs that are required of daily

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Speaker 5: participation in country, in our towns, there are a whole

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Speaker 5: different range of settings that need to be in place.

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Speaker 5: And also, I think we all use this word therapeutic,

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Speaker 5: but I think we really need to break that down

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Speaker 5: and actually address what does that word actually mean so

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Speaker 5: that members in our community can understand what that means,

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Speaker 5: and that means around dealing with challenging behaviors, de escalating

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Speaker 5: and addressing some of the behavioral attitudes and the issues

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Speaker 5: that cause that criminogenic behavior.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask, because I know that you know, we've

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Speaker 1: had situations before. I've had the police tell me about

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Speaker 1: situations before in Central Australia, for example, where there was

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Speaker 1: a couple of nine year old kids. This is going

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Speaker 1: a little back, a couple of nine year old kids

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Speaker 1: who had been engaged in behavior where they, if I

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Speaker 1: remember correctly, had broken into a couple of homes in

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs. The police took them home. Their families didn't

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Speaker 1: even know that they had gone anywhere. Now then we're

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Speaker 1: talking about taking them back obviously to a family situation,

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Speaker 1: and they're making families responsible. But how are we going

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Speaker 1: to be making families responsible? How can we legally actually

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Speaker 1: make those families responsible if a kid is breaking the law.

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Speaker 2: And that's the bigger picture thing, Katie.

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Speaker 7: And what I find really interesting is it we're only

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Speaker 7: just talking about these programs and stuff now with this

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Speaker 7: change in legislation. This stuff's been going on for ages.

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Speaker 7: It's been happy in our communities for ages. Why haven't

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Speaker 7: these programs and this discussion happened two years ago, four years,

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Speaker 7: six years ago. Why are we just talking about it

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Speaker 7: now with the introduction of this legislation.

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Speaker 5: I think that we really know, we know all of

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Speaker 5: those communities had been doing a great job.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah they are. But why all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: you now ramping it up.

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Speaker 7: You're going to change the legislation, You're going to start

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Speaker 7: ramping up and doing all this other sort of stuff.

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Speaker 7: This stuff should have been happening for ages. These groups

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Speaker 7: should have been funded, There should have been appropriate programs in.

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Speaker 2: Place for a long time.

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Speaker 7: And the Chief particularly that she agreed that the issue

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Speaker 7: is and the problem is that these kids haven't got

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Speaker 7: anywhere safe to go.

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Speaker 2: She said it on radio on Alice Springs with Brashy

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Speaker 2: last week.

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Speaker 7: So why hasn't government addressed that, Why don't these kids

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Speaker 7: actually have someone with safe to go and why hasn't

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Speaker 7: that been a focus of government?

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, Katie, the CLP has no idea. There

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Speaker 5: is a safe place in Alice Springs called Salt Push

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Speaker 5: where people can go.

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Speaker 4: These programs are in place, they've been doing a great job.

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Speaker 5: We've been working with the sector to make sure that

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Speaker 5: they are ready and that they had the capacity for

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Speaker 5: us to be in a position to raise the age.

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Speaker 5: So this has been an ongoing volume.

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Speaker 2: Until the people in our springs chancing well.

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Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, if all these programs sound fantastic and

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Speaker 6: you do really want them to work, because we have

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Speaker 6: been talking about this issue, you and IKD for years now,

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Speaker 6: honestly really have gone hard on the government right and

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Speaker 6: come back with all these things and fantastic that the

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Speaker 6: community sector is doing this, But people who are victims

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Speaker 6: of crime aren't seeing that impact, and that is the

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Speaker 6: biggest problem, and that's going to be the hardest thing

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Speaker 6: for labor to show when selling these law reforms and

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Speaker 6: you know, bringing in the actual program, bringing in the

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Speaker 6: laws when these programs are in place. I mean, people

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Speaker 6: aren't seeing the outcomes of these. We talk about back

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Speaker 6: on Track that was announced as.

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Speaker 1: The big what we're going to.

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Speaker 6: Help with youth crime, and all these programs are going

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Speaker 6: to be part of back and Track, and so it

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Speaker 6: just seems like people have heard this before and it's

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Speaker 6: not being translated.

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Speaker 1: Look, I want to take a really short break because

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Speaker 1: when we come back, I do want to continue down

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Speaker 1: this path, but take you on a bit of a

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Speaker 1: different path. I guess we know that there have been

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Speaker 1: some further ram raids overnight. We'll take you through that,

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Speaker 1: but also the government's crime announcement from yesterday. Will take

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Speaker 1: a very short break. You are listening to Mix one

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Speaker 1: O four nine's three point sixty. It is the week

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Speaker 1: that was. If you have just joined us Bill Yan,

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Speaker 1: Kathleen Gazola and Chancey Paik in the studio with me

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Speaker 1: this morning discussing the issues of the week. But I

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Speaker 1: do just want to take you across to well a

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Speaker 1: question from one of our listeners, Craig from Catherine saying,

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Speaker 1: can you please explain what that salt bush is? What

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Speaker 1: can you please explain that salt bush is? Bail supported

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Speaker 1: accommodation in Alice or what exactly is at Chancy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so Salt Bush is a place in Alice Springs

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Speaker 5: where we can take young people if they don't have

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Speaker 5: a safe place to go. We know that we don't

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Speaker 5: want them in a jail cell or in a police

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Speaker 5: custody cell. So they do have the power to take

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Speaker 5: them to Salt Bush and we can have young people there.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now I do want to take you to an

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Speaker 1: issue that's occurred obviously from overnight. My understanding is that

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Speaker 1: there's been a couple of rambraids overnight. Basically, there was

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Speaker 1: a ram raid last night at Berry Springs tavern, which

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Speaker 1: I do know about. I've been sent video ten to

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Speaker 1: twelve blocks. Youngsters entered when two staff was still in

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Speaker 1: there closing up. Now I am in contact right now

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Speaker 1: with well with one of the owners, Leah Sloan, and

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Speaker 1: she has said that essentially they're in a situation I

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Speaker 1: believe where her daughter was one of those that was

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Speaker 1: locked in the office watching footage for six minutes while

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Speaker 1: all those men rated the whole premises. You know, she

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Speaker 1: said it could have been very different if they you know,

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Speaker 1: if they didn't drop the money and run. But essentially

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Speaker 1: what we have seen from that vision is them ram

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Speaker 1: raid into through those roller doors. Then everybody scattered through

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Speaker 1: and steal alcohol. It's like swarming in and stealing alcohol.

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Speaker 1: Now what frightens me about that is then that you've

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Speaker 1: got offers, you've got people inside that building, you've got

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Speaker 1: staff inside that building, and you know nobody knows then

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Speaker 1: how dangerous that's going to get. So that's a terrible

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Speaker 1: situation then that they've been through overnight. But let's be

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Speaker 1: really bluntly honest here. I spoke to the Todd Tavern

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Speaker 1: last week all the week before in Alice Springs, the

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Speaker 1: manager there who told me that they've been in a

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Speaker 1: similar situation. I can't remember how many occasions.

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Speaker 2: It was twice in recent months.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the one the other day.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, then the middle of the road shop got hit

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Speaker 7: Wednesday night, and not just smashing the roll or smash

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Speaker 7: through the wall through a concrete ballard. What really scares me, though, Katie,

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Speaker 7: is that if someone happens to be in that shop

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Speaker 7: and in that area when the car goes through.

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Speaker 2: These people could kill somebody.

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Speaker 7: What happens if someone like last night out of Berry

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Speaker 7: Springs if somebody happened to be in the bottle shop

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Speaker 7: behind that door when the car come through, is it

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Speaker 7: it's going to end in tragedy.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing. But I think the real

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Speaker 1: sense around the place at the moment is that there's

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Speaker 1: this feeling of lawlessness. You know, when you see vision

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Speaker 1: like that and you see something like that going on,

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Speaker 1: you think to yourself, like, people don't they're not even

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Speaker 1: covering their faces, like they don't even care.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, looking at that vision just before from you, Katie,

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Speaker 3: they're not kids.

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Speaker 6: So it's like there's different issues of crime as well,

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Speaker 6: Like this is obviously the alcohol issue, which we know

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Speaker 6: then does feed into the issue of youth crime, especially

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Speaker 6: if parents aren't being responsible and kids are being left

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Speaker 6: to their own devices. But that vision is just they're

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Speaker 6: clearly adults obviously going to get alcohol.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, they're rightly asking the question out there today,

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Speaker 1: what on earth is the government doing to address this?

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Speaker 1: And you know LEAs said she doesn't want to hear

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Speaker 1: that it's complex because it's harshit, you know, to put

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Speaker 1: it on they're living through this and they're having to

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Speaker 1: deal with this, and I know that there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of businesses that are feeling that way. You know,

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Speaker 1: we hear all the time there's complexities of the complexness.

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Speaker 1: It's so complex, it's so much like Yeah, I did

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Speaker 1: hear that one as well during the week, and I think,

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Speaker 1: quite frankly, people are just sick of hearing it. They

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Speaker 1: want to they want to know what urgent action is take,

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Speaker 1: is going to be taken in this space. It had

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Speaker 1: even been said to me, you know, treat this in

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Speaker 1: the same way that you treated COVID. Give us, you know,

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Speaker 1: some key indicators of how you're going to gauge whether

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Speaker 1: this is or isn't working, whether the government, you know,

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Speaker 1: the measures that they're taking are actually working. And yep

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Speaker 1: it's alcohol, Yep, there's youth crime. But there is just

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Speaker 1: a sense of lawnlessness around the place.

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Speaker 7: Well, if you look at Alison and I said it

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Speaker 7: in Parliament this week, the place is starting.

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Speaker 2: To look like a wall zone.

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Speaker 7: You've got businesses dropping one ton concrete blocks outside their

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Speaker 7: premises to stop ram raids into the bottle shops, a

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Speaker 7: bakery of all things, like tens of thousands of dollars

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Speaker 7: of damage to a bakery in town with a ram

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Speaker 7: raid to steal fifteen bucks worth of cupcakes.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the point of making bars on the windows

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Speaker 6: and roller doors.

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Speaker 3: They have to have them now they can't not.

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Speaker 1: And look, I know the government made them out earlier

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Speaker 1: in the week saying that they've announced a number of

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Speaker 1: initiatives to further protect victims and businesses from crime and

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Speaker 1: anti social behavior. They'd said, so two million dollars for

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Speaker 1: more support for victims of crime, NT amendments to the

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Speaker 1: Trespass Act. From what I can gather, that's not a

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Speaker 1: bad like. That's actually not a bad thing. It seems

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Speaker 1: as though it will hopefully help. So the government's going

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Speaker 1: to amend the Trespass Act of nineteen seventy eight making

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Speaker 1: the process of issuing and enforcing trespass orders more streamline.

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Speaker 1: And also then biz secure a blitz with ber Secure.

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Speaker 1: So government said that they're going to ramp that up

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Speaker 1: and basically fast track any of the current applications, intensive

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Speaker 1: one on one support for businesses currently trying to put

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Speaker 1: applications through and follow up on business who still haven't

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Speaker 1: finished their application. How are we not doing that already?

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Speaker 1: But that part why is.

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Speaker 2: The owners fall back on business? Katie?

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Speaker 7: Well, why Okay, bi secure is good. It helps businesses

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Speaker 7: maybe stop from being broken into. But let's go back

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Speaker 7: to the rich cause. Let's go back and deal with

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Speaker 7: the criminals. Let's take our streets back. Because at the moment,

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Speaker 7: you're right, it's like lawlessness. People just acting with impunita.

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Speaker 7: They don't care about the lord. They're smashing things, breaking things,

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Speaker 7: assaulting people. It's just it's ongoing. It's relentless, it's not stopping.

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Speaker 2: Let's deal with the crooks. Rather than put the.

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Speaker 7: Owners back on business to make their place look like

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Speaker 7: a prison or a gile or something else, Let's deal

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Speaker 7: with the root cause, which is that the people that

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Speaker 7: are doing these things.

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Speaker 2: Let's take our streets back. Let's get some police on

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Speaker 2: the ground.

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Speaker 7: Doing what they need to do to take out take

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Speaker 7: control of our streets.

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Speaker 5: So I think like, let's just work through this in

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Speaker 5: section basection, we still need people still have to apply

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Speaker 5: for bit secure.

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Speaker 4: We can't just give money willing nelly away. That would

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Speaker 4: be corruption.

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Speaker 1: Striking anything that they're putting through in the space.

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Speaker 5: There's a number of applications that are still we're waiting

442
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 5: for some people to finalize those those through Again, we're

443
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 5: working with the community and with local councils across the

444
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 5: place as well around those crime prevention by design matters,

445
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 5: which we will prevent that. But you know, I guess, Katie,

446
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 5: when I am out in the community, what I have

447
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 5: heard loud and clear from members of the community and

448
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 5: organizations and peak groups is that the current system is

449
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:19,919
Speaker 5: old and isn't working.

450
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: Hearing from people that they're fed up with crime.

451
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I.

452
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 4: Think that.

453
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 2: This is.

454
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 4: Cut's away now, you know. I think what we are.

455
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 5: Hearing is that the current justice system, the old system

456
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 5: isn't working.

457
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,919
Speaker 1: That's why I that's very different too. Are you hearing

458
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: from people on the streets right now in your community

459
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 1: that they're fed up with crime? Look?

460
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 5: I talk to people every day in my community, and

461
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 5: what I'm hearing from people in my community is they

462
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 5: want to change and that they know that the current

463
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 5: justice system. They're not telling you that they're fed up,

464
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 5: it's actually working through we need a smarter justice system

465
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 5: to create a safer territory.

466
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: That really interesting that in Central Australia you're not being told.

467
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 7: By people people raising crime everywhere I go. It's the

468
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 7: first thing ages ago was COVID. The first thing out

469
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 7: of people's mouth was COVID. These days, it's just crime

470
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 7: every and it's just everywhere you go. It's all people

471
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 7: are talking about.

472
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 3: Being targeted by vandals.

473
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 2: Or your often I think windows.

474
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 5: I'm not saying that people are not talking to me about. Absolutely,

475
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 5: people talk to me about ways in which we can

476
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 5: work together as a community to overcome the challenges that

477
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 5: we're faced within our spring.

478
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 4: So, I mean, no one's going to deny.

479
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 5: That there is work that still needs to be done

480
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 5: in addressing anti social behavior in our community, and that

481
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 5: needs to be done through a range of things. And

482
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 5: you know, it's a community that needs to be worked

483
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 5: through together as a community response.

484
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 6: You know, part of what you're saying that antisocial word

485
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 6: now it's beyond social, it is sure.

486
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: And look, part of what you're saying, I think is correct.

487
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: You know, we certainly do need to have we do

488
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: need to be changing things. We do need to be

489
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: making sure that when people are going through that system

490
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: that they're coming out better people, not better criminals. We

491
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: want to make sure that children don't end up on

492
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: that path of a downward spiral. But right now, there

493
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: needs to be like a stop gap. There needs to

494
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 1: be a really serious focus on what we're seeing on

495
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: the streets around Darwin and Alice Springs, Tenant Creek. You know,

496
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: we caught up with Jared Bourbon earlier in the week

497
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: in Tenant Creek. He said that they'd had I think

498
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: it was thirty breakings in the last three months. If

499
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, I'll have to go back.

500
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 7: To three hundred over period of years from the various

501
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 7: family businesses.

502
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: It's really unsustainable.

503
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 2: It's relentless, and that's the problem is it's relentless.

504
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,719
Speaker 7: And people are starting to normalize this now, which is

505
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 7: even more concerning because when you start to normalize crime

506
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 7: and normalize some of these issues that we see, then

507
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 7: you're on a very very steep downward spiral to.

508
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: Making it, oh, that's part of every day and it

509
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: shouldn't be.

510
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 5: I think also there are a number of causes of crime,

511
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 5: and one of those is that here in the territory

512
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 5: there are a significant number of people who live in

513
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 5: entrenched poverty. It's a lack of funds, it's a lack

514
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 5: of resources, and it's sheer remoteness. And I mean that's

515
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 5: a conversation that we need to be having with the

516
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 5: common Wealth around lifting people out of poverty. I mean,

517
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 5: I spoke to a business owner in Central Australia not

518
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 5: long ago who said, I've actually stopped getting the number

519
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 5: of break ins that I was because I've started leaving

520
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 5: food and soft drink out because I know that these

521
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 5: are people who are living below the poverty line.

522
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not saying that that's okay.

523
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 5: I'm saying that this is a conversation that we need

524
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 5: to be having also with the Commonwealth.

525
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 4: I mean the Commonwealth.

526
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 5: The common Wealth have also made a commitment I'm hoping

527
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 5: is in the October budget around their justice reinvestment, which,

528
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 5: as Bill would probably know as well, the Commonwealth made

529
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 5: that commitment both sides federally actually leading into the election

530
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 5: around a significant funds for Alice Springstown Council to work

531
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 5: through that justice reinvestment. So we're waiting to see what

532
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 5: that looks like so that we can work with them

533
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 5: as well on those causes.

534
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: All right. One of the other changes that has been

535
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: announced over the last couple of days, well yesterday, is

536
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: the Northern Territory governments introducing in forced corrections orders to

537
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: break the cycle of reoffending. They say prioritizing victim safety

538
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: support for victims of crime, and also to hold offenders accountable. Now,

539
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: this goes to changes when it comes to mandatory sentencing.

540
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: So essentially in some cases from what I can gather,

541
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: and I'm still very much trying to wrap my head

542
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: around this and trying to wrap my head around what

543
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: kind of you know, what kind of sentences we are

544
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: talking about. But essentially this mandate from today, well you're

545
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: introduced it into Parliament yesterday, I should say, you're looking

546
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: to reform mandatory sentencing and mandatory non parole periods for

547
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: a limited range of offenses, excluding murder, sexual offenses, and

548
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: assaulting a police officer or an emergency worker. But chancey,

549
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: what exactly is this going to mean in terms of

550
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: that mandatory sentencing.

551
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, I think this reform is smarter justice for

552
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 5: a safer territory. This reform is about stopping that revolving

553
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 5: door of reoffending, because what we know is happening out

554
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 5: there in the community at the moment is that when

555
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 5: people breach one of those particular offenses that we're looking

556
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 5: at repealing, is they get sentenced through the mandatory sentencing

557
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 5: provisions to go into the big House for a period

558
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 5: of time, which often means that they're ineligible to participate

559
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 5: in a prison program because they're not there long enough.

560
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 4: And in fact, it doesn't.

561
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 5: Go to the root cause, which is around addressing the

562
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 5: offending behaviors, which then ultimately that person is released. It

563
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 5: causes anxiety and we've heard from many people in the

564
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 5: DV space it actually perpetuates the cycle of violence because

565
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 5: what happens is is that person is in there for

566
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 5: a week or three weeks, they get out, they haven't

567
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 5: had any behavioral change, they haven't had any training or

568
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 5: counseling or anything. Then they just get released, they go

569
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 5: back and the cycle continues. In fact, it perpetuates because

570
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 5: they've been in their huming that they've been put in there,

571
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 5: and the partner is out in the community worried because

572
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 5: nothing has gone to address those behaviors.

573
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 6: So it was just to wrap my head around it

574
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 6: as well, because I'm still working out and obviously the

575
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 6: legal system is quite complex and you're getting this advice

576
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 6: from the legal society, Why couldn't a judge, you know,

577
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 6: if they're going to centen them for a week three

578
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 6: weeks a short term program situation imprisonment. Why couldn't they

579
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 6: also as part of their release program or part of

580
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 6: their sentence, if they're going to get out, sentence them

581
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 6: to those programs to do it in the first place,

582
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 6: Why do you need to take away that mandatory sentence

583
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 6: for reaching that domestic violence?

584
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: They have to do that not already.

585
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 7: A judge can impose those sorts of orders on a sentence.

586
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 7: But the problem we face is we don't have the

587
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 7: program in capability, particularly in Central Australia, to be able

588
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 7: to deal with them just the sheer volume of matters.

589
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 7: And I know this piece of legislation really well, and

590
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 7: because aid and using corrections, I know what it means.

591
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 7: Like I'm the first person to say that throwing people

592
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 7: in jail is not the answer. And any other jurisdiction

593
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 7: in the country, if you've got sentence to a period

594
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 7: of imprisonment under six months, you wouldn't spend it inside

595
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 7: of prison, all right, You'd be spending it on a

596
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 7: home detention order with orders about undertaking programs and bits

597
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 7: and pieces we don't the territory does not have the

598
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 7: capacity to do the program. And if you look at

599
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 7: and I think it was spoken about Emparliament. Over sixty

600
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 7: five percent of the offenders in castidor in there for

601
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 7: DV related matters. So you've got to look at what

602
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 7: programs were able to provide to deal with those DV

603
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 7: issues outside in the community, because at the moment the

604
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 7: people are provid in those programs are completely snowed under.

605
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 7: There's wait list years long to get onto those things.

606
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 7: So it's got to be resource for it to work.

607
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 7: For it to work, and look, I hope it works,

608
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 7: it's got to be resourced appropriately. Otherwise again, it's.

609
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: Just not going it's not going to happen. It's not

610
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 2: going to solve the problem.

611
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 5: Building on, I think as part of these reforms, what

612
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 5: we're effectively doing is untying the one hand that's been

613
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 5: tied behind a judges back, giving them the power and

614
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 5: the discretion to make those sentencing and we're giving judges

615
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 5: effectively a menu that when they are looking at sentencing

616
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 5: an offender, they have a whole range that still will

617
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 5: be an option is absolutely imprisonment, but it will be

618
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 5: a whole range of other orders. We are using the

619
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 5: power for new sentencing orders which will be accompanied with

620
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 5: either a work direction programming. We're working with over the

621
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 5: next twelve months. Again, this is the legislation that will

622
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 5: pass in November, but again the commencement won't be until

623
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 5: a lie as the Attorney General and satisfied that we

624
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 5: have the programs in place. And I've said very openly

625
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 5: this week that over the next twelve months I'll be

626
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 5: working with the DV community, with police, with experts, with

627
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 5: victim survivors on the development of programs.

628
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: Are all of these these programs are obviously not all

629
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: operational yet, so we're talking about having to get all

630
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: of these different. You know, for some cases, I'm sure

631
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: that they are already set up, but we're talking about

632
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: also having to make sure that all of these programs

633
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: are set up and we don't actually even know whether

634
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: they're whether they're going to work, so actually practice in place.

635
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 4: I don't agree with that.

636
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 5: We had the Northern Territory Law Reform Committee who did

637
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 5: the huge volume of work around what will work and

638
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 5: what won't, and what we know is that there are

639
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 5: outstanding groups in the DV community in that sector who

640
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 5: have men's behavioral programs. These are programs that we're going

641
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 5: to work with on the expansion because we know that

642
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 5: they are working. We know in the alcohol and other

643
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 5: drugs there are programs that are working. We need to

644
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 5: look at expanding. But also we need to work with

645
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 5: health professionals, with police, and with the DV community, because

646
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 5: they have asked.

647
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: So we are stepping out on a limb here, There

648
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: is no doubt about it. We are stepping out on

649
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: a limb here. We are making some massive changes, massive

650
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: legislative changes always set to without there actually you know,

651
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: without being able to see in some instances whether there's

652
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: a success rate.

653
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 3: Already.

654
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 7: You have heard from some of the victims representative groups

655
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 7: too that they're not exactly happy about this, because, whether

656
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 7: you like it or not, the manatory sentencing stuff does

657
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 7: provide that a little bit of a circuit breaker for

658
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 7: a victim who's been subject to domestic violence in particular,

659
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 7: so it gives them some safety while at person is away.

660
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 7: This and this is what the victim representative groups are saying,

661
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 7: that all of a sudden, this person, the perpetrator, may

662
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 7: be back in that same place with that victim.

663
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 2: And I said, it may put that person.

664
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 5: In a current form no behavioral training. I'm not interested

665
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 5: in giving perpetrators a holiday in prison. I want their

666
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 5: behavior changed. I want them to address the appalling behaviors

667
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 5: that we're seeing in the territory and addressing those DV rates.

668
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 5: We have said with the DV sector they are going

669
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 5: to work with us on co design. Now that's a

670
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 5: first in the territory. We heard this week in Parliament

671
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 5: the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, or the current Deputy

672
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 5: Leader of the Opposition, Jared Maylee, talk about basing things

673
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 5: on evidence. The evidence around the country is clear that

674
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 5: mandatory sentencing is put in place to be a deterrent.

675
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 4: Has it deterred. No.

676
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 5: You heard Jared Maylee and Bill talk this week that

677
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 5: jailing is failing. We need to be smarter about how

678
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 5: we address the root causes of people committing crimes and

679
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 5: the DV rates that is addressed through addressing this. We

680
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 5: know that the evidence nationally and internationally is in program

681
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 5: development and we'll be drawing on that expertise around having

682
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 5: these conference.

683
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: We get it right though when it comes to these

684
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: programs and look, the only thing that I've really got

685
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: to go on is some of the you know that's

686
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: stepping away from this mandatory sentencing and stepping back to

687
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: that youth space. The only thing I've got to go

688
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: on is, you know, what we've been told about some

689
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: of those different youth programs over the last five, six, seven,

690
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: eight years, and you know, and really like the fact

691
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: that we've still got the youth offending rate that we've

692
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: got in the Northern Territory indicates to me there's maybe

693
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: things aren't working as well as they could be. And

694
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: I know that this is obviously why the government's looking

695
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: at different changes, but those programs like it's it's really

696
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: stepping out, I think and putting ourselves, you know, out

697
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 1: there hoping these programs will work. But are we putting

698
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: the cart before the horse? I don't know.

699
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 6: And I mean, how much funding is going to go

700
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 6: towards these how much funding is required to expand these

701
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 6: programs to a level that you need for them to

702
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 6: be successful, both in the youth space and the DV

703
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 6: space in particular, given that is such an incredibly horrible

704
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 6: statistic in how much money are you going to put

705
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 6: it towards them which we don't have? So where is

706
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 6: it being redirected from?

707
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 5: I can tell everyone right now this is a position

708
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 5: that the Territory Labor government is wholeheartedly behind. We know

709
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 5: that this is the best approach and that this is

710
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 5: the best chance we have at addressing these rates.

711
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 4: Because these programs.

712
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 5: Will cost there will be a lot less zeros on

713
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 5: the end of these programs then there will be on

714
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 5: building another prison.

715
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 4: I would hope.

716
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 3: People would like to know what that figure is, and well.

717
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 5: I'm not going to give people a figure out because

718
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 5: we're doing the development with the sector, with the community

719
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 5: to make sure that they are adequately addressed and resourced.

720
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 4: And again we are doing this.

721
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 5: Based on the expert advice. And we know, Katie, as

722
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 5: I've said, people are saying that old system is not working.

723
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 5: This is a new way of doing things that's actually

724
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 5: going to be a step in the right direction. There

725
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 5: is always going to need to be reform work.

726
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 6: And so then what is the KPIs that need to

727
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 6: be reached. What sort of timeline are you going to

728
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 6: follow to be like, yes, this has been a success

729
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 6: or in six months time you want to see this

730
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 6: drop in it or a year's time or two years time,

731
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 6: Because I mean a big part of what in particular

732
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 6: from Alice Springs, we person they want an urgent action

733
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 6: now and we're hearing a lot about government of medium

734
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 6: and long term solutions which one hundred percent everyone really.

735
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 3: Hopes work, but at the moment people are struggling to

736
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 3: hang in there.

737
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 5: There will absolutely we will absolutely be monitoring and evaluating this.

738
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 5: This is territory tax payers money. We will be making

739
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 5: sure that they have the opportunity to know where it's going.

740
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 5: The CELP will have the opportunity through the estimates process

741
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 5: as they do, to ask questions if they turn up.

742
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 5: So you know, this is important stuff. We've got nothing

743
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 5: to hide in this space, and we'll be able to

744
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 5: measure that by the number of cases going before courts,

745
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 5: the number of our incarceration rates in our territory prisons,

746
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 5: but also the number of people participating in these programs

747
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 5: and how long and how successful they are when they

748
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 5: finish those programs.

749
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: We're going to have to take a very short break.

750
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: We are fast running out of time. You're listening to

751
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: Mix one O four nine's three six ities the week

752
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: that was. We know that Parliament's sat throughout the week.

753
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: It's always interesting when parliaments. It's lots of you know,

754
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: Barb's thrown some interesting comments about Kentucky fried chicken and

755
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff.

756
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 3: It's good confidence.

757
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 1: Well I'm excited because it'll be hopefully in my area,

758
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, towards the city to grab a.

759
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 7: Bucket, but I have to know all the way out

760
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 7: to the Parmesan to get one.

761
00:37:58,640 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: Problem.

762
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 4: Springs is like the busiest KFC.

763
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 5: Yes, Michelin star wows.

764
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 1: People love their KFC, no doubt about it. But look,

765
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: it's not an ad for KFC obviously. Let's still and

766
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: we do know that the COLP had been at pains

767
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: to say that they wanted to introduce the legislation on

768
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: the fuel disclosure bill, but when it was due to happen,

769
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 1: well it didn't, and the CLP then appeared to chase

770
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: their tails and tried to debate the bill. When question

771
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: time it ended, I believe it was on Wednesday, they.

772
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 4: Ran out of fuel.

773
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: Now, my understanding was to rearrange that general business, a

774
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: letter had to go to the Speaker's office the day

775
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: prior bill. Why didn't that happen.

776
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 7: We sent a letter to the Speaker's office the day

777
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 7: before by all the cross Bench and the Independent saying

778
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 7: what we wanted to do. And it's really difficult to

779
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 7: explain because you've got to move between what's orders of

780
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 7: the day and notices and what we we wanted to

781
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 7: talk about fuel and crime because fuel was of course

782
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 7: certainly one of the highlights that we needed to do,

783
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 7: but crime has been on everybody's lips, so we wanted

784
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 7: to do both.

785
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 2: Now, the only way that.

786
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 7: We could do that is to suspend standing orders, and

787
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 7: we need and the government has to agree to suspend

788
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 7: standing orders. We did it the day before on Tuesday.

789
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 7: We agreed to suspend standing orders so that we could

790
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 7: debate the public holiday bill.

791
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 2: That's fine.

792
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 7: Now if government had have agreed and support us, we

793
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 7: could have spoken about fuel on Wednesday, and then once

794
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 7: we're done with fuel, we could have moved into crime.

795
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 7: Government didn't support suspending standing orders. There's more ways of

796
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 7: bringing to do both. We wanted to talk about both,

797
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 7: and we didn't get the support from labor.

798
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 2: They didn't agree to suspend standing.

799
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: Orders, and I think they really would.

800
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 7: Well, it was interesting because during question time they're all

801
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 7: standing up and saying, well, we really want to talk

802
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 7: about fuel. I think Evil Lawless says I've got my

803
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 7: speech ready, and someone else and we really wanted to

804
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 7: debate fuel and then when to finally come to time

805
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 7: to actually put the rubber on the road.

806
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 5: No, we're not going to We're not going to support

807
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 5: the example of a porky pie.

808
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 4: We've just heard it now. So Leah has been in

809
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 4: the Parliament.

810
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 5: For ten years. Bill has been there for two. You

811
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 5: don't send a letter to the Speaker. You send it

812
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 5: to the Clerk of Parliament, who organizes the procedures. We

813
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 5: have this little thing, Katie, it's called Standing Orders Book.

814
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 5: It's like the Bible for how parliament works. It sets

815
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 5: out how you do it. You could actually still have

816
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 5: done both. You could have just noticed that you'd have

817
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 5: one notice and then you'd move onto orders of their day.

818
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 5: But it appears little Joshy their whip wasn't.

819
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: On the time you been watching parliament. What did you

820
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: make of it all?

821
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 6: Oh, it's always part of the fun games of parliament.

822
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 6: Like you know, the opposition clearly wanted to do fuel

823
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 6: and crime and win political points on both, but the

824
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 6: government's not going to let them do it. So I mean, really,

825
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 6: the CLP could have had the ducks in order and

826
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 6: you know that Labor is not going to allow them

827
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 6: to go ahead now following correct procedures. So well, it

828
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 6: didn't look great because he held a press conference at

829
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 6: lunchtime talking about fuel and then when it didn't come.

830
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: Up to put your fin out, let me have a

831
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: look at these diesel and unleaded prices while we're talking

832
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 1: about this, because front and center all of that whole

833
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: discussion is the fact that it's bloody expensive at the

834
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: moment now at the terminal gate today for your petrol

835
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: here in Darwin, so at the terminal gate for your

836
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: unlettered it's at a dollar seventy eight. The fairest you'll

837
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: find it then is a dollar seventy seven. It's then

838
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: up to a dollar eighty three, a dollar eighty five

839
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: in some different areas. When you go across and have

840
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: a look at your diesel prices this morning, well, the

841
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: terminal gate price for your diesel today is on two

842
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: dollars twenty seven point nine. That's at the terminal gate.

843
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: That's astronomical. Then go across to your Bowser well fuel

844
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 1: express is still at two dollars fifteen. It then goes

845
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 1: up to two dollars twenty five, two dollars twenty nine.

846
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say that we'll expect to

847
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: see that jump at the Bowser pretty soon it's only

848
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: going to keep going up.

849
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 6: The COLP will again obviously try and bring the fuel

850
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 6: bell back when their sittings again starts in November. But

851
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 6: what Eva Laula was saying and what she was talking

852
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 6: about in terms of after her briefing and seems like

853
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 6: the government's not going to support it, which really doesn't

854
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 6: come as a surprise to me because the fuel companies

855
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 6: aren't going to want to show their profits and that

856
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 6: supply chain and how they make their money.

857
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 3: Because it is a free market.

858
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: I do reckon though, that the government should have been

859
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: stronger on this right from the word go, like essentially said,

860
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: you know, you need to be fair. I know Luke

861
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: Gosling came out he was pretty strong on it from

862
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: the word go, from you know, obviously on that federal scale.

863
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: But I do think that the government should have come

864
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: out very strong like Jacindra Adurn did New Zealand and

865
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: said you need to actually come to the party here

866
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: and be fair with Territorians. And I know that they

867
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: did eventually sort of go down that path, but it

868
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: was sort of too late.

869
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 7: It's pretty sad that the opposition had to be driving

870
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 7: this and government warned at the end of the day,

871
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 7: the government are there to represent territorianes and look after territorians.

872
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 7: The one positive out of all this, I think, Katie,

873
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 7: is the fact that these discussions have been front and

874
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 7: center on both sides now for quite some time, and

875
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 7: I think the fewer companies are actually listening to that.

876
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 7: And we've actually seen a bit of a reduction in

877
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 7: pricing across the territory, so they're probably listening and taking notice.

878
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 1: We're going to have to take a really short break

879
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: pay some bills. When we come back, we will get

880
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: ready to wrap up for the morning. You are listening

881
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. It is

882
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: the week that was Well, that is pretty much it

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00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: for us this morning. And Bill Yan, a big thank

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00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: you to you for your time this morning.

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00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 7: Thanks Katie, great to be here, and of course Mental

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00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 7: Health Month this month. Then there's the walk on Sunday

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00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 7: morning up here in Darwin, so everyone to get down

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Speaker 7: for that and support mental Health Month.

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Speaker 2: Great to do a great course.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Kathleen Gazola from nine News Darwin, thank you

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00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: for your time this morning. Thank you going out fishing

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00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: this weekend, are you yep?

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00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 3: Having a weekend away.

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00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: Good stuff. Good on you, Chancey Pig, Thank you so

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00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 1: much for your time this morning.

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00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 4: Thanks Katie, Thanks everyone listening. Have a good weekend.

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00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 5: Go and check out those amazing art galleries and museums

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Speaker 5: across the territory.

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Speaker 1: Wonderful stuff. Well, thank you all so much for your

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Speaker 1: time