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Speaker 1: Jonesy and Amanda's.

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Speaker 2: Clime ex guest is a master of all trades, an

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Speaker 2: author of over forty books. In his latest Little Book

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Speaker 2: of Climate Change, Australia's favorite scientist, who is obviously doctor

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Speaker 2: car Kochnitski, breaks down the complexities of climate change in

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Speaker 2: his signature fun Way. Good morning, doctor Carl, Good.

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Speaker 3: Morning doctor Amanda, Doctor doctor Carl.

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Speaker 2: Now Carl. When I first worked with you on the

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Speaker 2: Midday Show, I was a segment producer. You were I

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Speaker 2: think you're a medical student, but you were all by

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Speaker 2: then a budding scientist. You were talking about climate change then,

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Speaker 2: and this was the mid eighties. Would you have been

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Speaker 2: shocked then to hear that we're still battling now?

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Speaker 1: Shocked is the right word. I'll give you an example

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Speaker 1: of the ozone hole. In nineteen eighty five, after a

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Speaker 1: few decades of research, the scientists proved that the ozone

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Speaker 1: hole was being depleted by chemicals from fridges, and within

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Speaker 1: two years they abanned them. And then everything got better

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Speaker 1: around nineteen nineteen, the scientists nineteen eighteen, the fighters were convinced, No, no,

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Speaker 1: The Sighters were convinced the global warming was caused by

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Speaker 1: humans and it was real, but nothing happened. And in say,

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Speaker 1: we've had decades of cover up by the big fossil

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Speaker 1: field companies spending up to a billion dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: So there's a big different Boma shocker. That's such a difference,

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Speaker 1: and it's costingation. We've had the bushfires gone and the

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Speaker 1: Great Barrier Reef which never ever had coral bilici. I've

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Speaker 1: had five of them. Come on, you know, we've got

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Speaker 1: to stop doing this stuff.

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Speaker 3: I was reading just some stats in here and I

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Speaker 3: didn't realize this. We Australians believe that eight point two

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Speaker 3: percent of the Australian workforce, which is what twelve point

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Speaker 3: five million workers, So that's eight point two percent of

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Speaker 3: the Australian workforce work in the gas mining and exploration business.

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Speaker 3: That's what we believe, but it's actually less than zero

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Speaker 3: point two percent. Zero point two percent.

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Speaker 1: That's what The amount of the wealth of the fossil

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Speaker 1: fuel industry in Australia is microscopic. And in fact they

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Speaker 1: get a subsidy averaging out across the world is eight

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Speaker 1: cents out of every dollar in the revenue. With the

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Speaker 1: governments around the world get so out of every dollar

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Speaker 1: they get eight cents as a present. And you've never

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Speaker 1: seen a fossil fuel company having a living file on

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Speaker 1: a Sunday morning to raise them dough and then if

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Speaker 1: it would be in and it comes from the International

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Speaker 1: Mondery Fund, who were really hard on those people. And

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Speaker 1: then you think, well, at least it helped the economy along.

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Speaker 1: And then when they did the analysis they say, well,

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Speaker 1: actually it sloathed the economy and made things worse.

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Speaker 3: Is subsidy well, and further to that, you also state

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Speaker 3: here that ten eight percent of the common budget for

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Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, that that contributes ten point eight percent, but

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Speaker 3: it's actually zero point two percent.

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Speaker 1: Well, once again people believe that a lot of money

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Speaker 1: comes in from fossil fuel companies into Australia's revenue, but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. That's part of the wonderful let's say, sort

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Speaker 1: of advertising you get for a billion dollars a year,

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Speaker 1: so you get a lot of It's like a big tobacco,

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Speaker 1: would big alcohol. Nothing personal, it's just business.

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Speaker 2: So do you think that the younger generation get this?

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Speaker 2: Is it actually our generation that we need to be educating.

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Speaker 1: Everybody needs to be educated and we need to make

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Speaker 1: the changes. And they have to come from the top,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the little stuff about you know, doing

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Speaker 1: the composting and doing more recitling. That helps a bit.

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Speaker 1: That the big change you have to come from the top,

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Speaker 1: where we say, okay, we're going to ban for example,

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Speaker 1: internal combustion engine cars, and six countries in Europe have

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Speaker 1: already done that. They've banned them from the year twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five or twenty thirty, whereas in Australia we're doing

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Speaker 1: the opposite and bring lumps of coal in de Parliament

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Speaker 1: and covering them lovingly.

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Speaker 2: You've also said in there that the industry will have

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Speaker 2: to will force change our coal, our oil won't our

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Speaker 2: gas won't be bought overseas. Those markets are actually shutting down.

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Speaker 1: They are shutting down because am called a stranded usset

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Speaker 1: in economics. So sales, for example, was a terrific product

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Speaker 1: until you know, steam powered engines ships came along, and

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Speaker 1: in steam engines for ship is a tritic product until

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Speaker 1: diesel engines came along. So we're talking to here the

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Speaker 1: term stranded product. I think that it no longer has

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Speaker 1: any value in the society.

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Speaker 3: Because if we used to run on whale oil back

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Speaker 3: in the olden days before they discovered ground oil, there

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Speaker 3: was whale.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right. Why aren't we evolving now? That's the thing.

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Speaker 2: It's lobby groups that are stopping us, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And it's like one good thing about the fossil industry,

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Speaker 1: the fossil fueling is forgiving is they did, in fact

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Speaker 1: save the whales because we're going to wipe out the

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Speaker 1: you know, the whales, you know, we need for oil,

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Speaker 1: and the fossil fuel industry did save the whales. Good

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Speaker 1: for that.

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Speaker 2: Give it up for the positives where you can find them.

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Speaker 3: It really, you know, and whatever you have about climate change.

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Speaker 3: And I think a lot of people, as soon as

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Speaker 3: you mentioned the word climate change, their brain sort of

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Speaker 3: tends to go like mine does. So it's the guys

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Speaker 3: have really when you look at these statistics in this

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Speaker 3: it's it's really a good read, doctor Carl. That's always

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Speaker 3: a treat, The Little Book of Climate Change Science. Have

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Speaker 3: a read and get the facts on that. Thank you,

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Speaker 3: doctor Carl, with Joins and Amanda