1
00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,040
Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

2
00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:10,040
Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

3
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,320
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

4
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,880
Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

5
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,799
Speaker 1: Strait island and nations. We pay our respects to the

6
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,599
Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

7
00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,240
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday,

8
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,199
Speaker 2: the sixteenth of November. I'm Zara, I'm Sam. One of

9
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:38,200
Speaker 2: the world's biggest cryptocurrency exchanges has collapsed and it's sending

10
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,120
Speaker 2: shock waves through the crypto community. So how does a

11
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 2: company once worth thirty two billion dollars end up bankrupt?

12
00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 3: What we have here is a slow motion train wreck

13
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,559
Speaker 3: running into a dumpster fire and what.

14
00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,959
Speaker 2: Does it mean for the future of finance. TDA journalist

15
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,840
Speaker 2: Tom Crowley will be joining us to explain everything in

16
00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,880
Speaker 2: today's deep dive. But first Sam, let's start with the headlines.

17
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 4: A fives A vaccine targeting the omicron strain of COVID

18
00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,080
Speaker 4: nineteen has been approved as a third and fourth booster dose.

19
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,959
Speaker 4: It was confirmed by Health Minister Mark Butler after a

20
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,240
Speaker 4: TARGI found the vaccine made a modest improvement in response

21
00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:15,200
Speaker 4: to some strains.

22
00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,440
Speaker 2: A record number of votes were cast on the first

23
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,960
Speaker 2: day of early voting for the Victorian election. The Victorian

24
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,960
Speaker 2: Electoral Commission said that over one hundred and fifteen thousand

25
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,440
Speaker 2: votes were cast on Monday alone. That's fifty two percent

26
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,360
Speaker 2: more than on the first day of early voting in

27
00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,720
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. Victorians don't need a reason to vote early

28
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,959
Speaker 2: for this year's election, which will take place on the

29
00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:38,200
Speaker 2: twenty sixth of November.

30
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,080
Speaker 4: I thought it was looking a bit crowded in Hirzara.

31
00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,199
Speaker 4: The global population has now reached eight billion people, which

32
00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,400
Speaker 4: the United Nations says is a milestone in human development.

33
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,120
Speaker 4: The population is now three times higher than it was

34
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,840
Speaker 4: in nineteen fifty and it's expected to peak at around

35
00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,520
Speaker 4: ten point four billion people during the twenty eighties and

36
00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,000
Speaker 4: stay at this level until twenty one hundred.

37
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,680
Speaker 2: And Finally, some good news. The jill ARUs have qualified

38
00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,400
Speaker 2: for the Rugby League Women's World Cup with an eighty

39
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,600
Speaker 2: two zero victory over Papua New Guinea. They'll now play

40
00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:17,520
Speaker 2: New Zealand in the Grand final. Tom how are you going.

41
00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,600
Speaker 3: I'm very well, Zara, a pleasure to be here.

42
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,680
Speaker 2: In today's deep dive, we're talking about the collapse of

43
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,960
Speaker 2: one of the biggest crypto exchanges in the world. But

44
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,680
Speaker 2: before we get into it, I don't invest in crypto.

45
00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,320
Speaker 2: Why should I and anyone else that doesn't invest in

46
00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,600
Speaker 2: crypto actually care about this story?

47
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,400
Speaker 3: Well, I don't invest in crypto either, 'sara, but I

48
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,560
Speaker 3: do find it a fascinating topic. You know, people talk

49
00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,959
Speaker 3: about cryptos the future, it promises to change the world,

50
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 3: and so when it goes through a really rough week,

51
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,320
Speaker 3: and I think this is probably the roughest week in

52
00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,520
Speaker 3: the history of crypto, I think it's really important to

53
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,520
Speaker 3: take a look at what that means for crypto and

54
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 3: the people who put their money in it, but also

55
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,040
Speaker 3: what it means for the broader world of finance.

56
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,600
Speaker 2: Okay, so in that explanation, I think you mentioned the

57
00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,440
Speaker 2: word crypto at least twenty five times. Can you just

58
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,200
Speaker 2: explain what it actually is.

59
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:10,440
Speaker 3: Cryptocurrency, Yes, cryptocryptocrypto. So cryptocurrency is digital money basically, So

60
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,840
Speaker 3: when you think about traditional money like Australian dollars for example,

61
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,480
Speaker 3: of course you can spend Australian dollars online, but they're

62
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,399
Speaker 3: tied to something in the real world. In this case,

63
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 3: it's the Australian government, and most of the sort of

64
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 3: traditional sources of money that we use are tied to

65
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,920
Speaker 3: a government, US dollars to the US government, et cetera.

66
00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,920
Speaker 3: Cryptocurrencies are not like that at all. They exist in

67
00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:34,200
Speaker 3: their own little online bubble, which, on the one hand,

68
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,400
Speaker 3: kind of makes them a little bit riskier because they

69
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,800
Speaker 3: only have any value if people buy into them and

70
00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,840
Speaker 3: choose to use them and believe that they have value.

71
00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:42,960
Speaker 3: On the other hand, though, what the advocates of crypto

72
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,320
Speaker 3: say is that they're kind of online system which uses

73
00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,440
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of new technology. I go into all

74
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,120
Speaker 3: the details, but the idea is it's supposed to protect

75
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,520
Speaker 3: you against theft and fraud. You know, people who talk

76
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,880
Speaker 3: about crypto talk about it's you know, transformative potential. It's

77
00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 3: a new way of doing business that uses kind of

78
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,240
Speaker 3: online technology, new form of money, but it is fundamentally

79
00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:03,040
Speaker 3: just money.

80
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,680
Speaker 2: So then where does FTX come into this? Can you

81
00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 2: just explain what that is and why we're talking about

82
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:08,400
Speaker 2: it today?

83
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, So FDx is or was I suppose until it

84
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 3: collapsed this week, one of the biggest crypto exchanges and

85
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,719
Speaker 3: what's in exchange So it's basically just as the name suggests,

86
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,679
Speaker 3: it's a way of swapping one form of money for another.

87
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,640
Speaker 3: So normal traditional currency exchange I might, you know, walk

88
00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,479
Speaker 3: into a currency exchange place and swap some Australian dollars

89
00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,520
Speaker 3: for some US dollars. Crypto exchanges just allow you to

90
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,040
Speaker 3: switch traditional money for crypto and switch between different types

91
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,000
Speaker 3: of crypto. Normally exchanges are not that big a deal,

92
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,040
Speaker 3: but crypto exchanges have taken on I guess, a bit

93
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 3: of a bigger significance in the crypto world than what

94
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 3: we might normally think from exchanges. And in part I

95
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,280
Speaker 3: think that's because, you know, cryptos this new thing. People

96
00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:52,880
Speaker 3: might hear it, they might be curious about it, but

97
00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,320
Speaker 3: they may not know where to start. The big exchanges

98
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,640
Speaker 3: have really been I guess, the gateway for people to

99
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,640
Speaker 3: get into crypto, and FTX bigger than anything else in

100
00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,280
Speaker 3: that regard. And I guess one of the best examples

101
00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,039
Speaker 3: of the way that FTX was presenting itself to the

102
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,799
Speaker 3: world was an ad that they ran at the Super

103
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,480
Speaker 3: Bowl earlier this year. Like I was saying it's FTX

104
00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,279
Speaker 3: to see if an easy way to get into krypto

105
00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,320
Speaker 3: and I'm never wrong about this stuff, never, So that's

106
00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 3: comedian Larry David in that ad. Again that sort of

107
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,359
Speaker 3: celebrity power, and you can hear how FTX is positioning

108
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,039
Speaker 3: itself for people who are skeptical about crypto, who don't

109
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,600
Speaker 3: know much about it, again as the gateway. So it

110
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,280
Speaker 3: was founded by thirty year old billionaire Sam Bakman Freed,

111
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,680
Speaker 3: who I'll refer to for the rest of the podcast

112
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,479
Speaker 3: by his initials SBF. That's what he goes by. And

113
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,400
Speaker 3: he's kind of, I guess Crypto's biggest celebrity in a

114
00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,160
Speaker 3: sense as the founder of this exchange. He's kind of

115
00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 3: an eccentric character and he's really been at the forefront

116
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,440
Speaker 3: of encouraging people to invest in crypto. He's donated a

117
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,120
Speaker 3: lot to the Democrats in America. He's partnered with celebrities

118
00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,080
Speaker 3: like Tom Brady and Steph Curry.

119
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 2: And now don't need to be with FTX.

120
00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 1: I have everything I need to buy, sell, and trade

121
00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 1: crypto safely.

122
00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,120
Speaker 2: We'll be back in just a moment, but first a

123
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,280
Speaker 2: message from our sponsor, So take me through when things

124
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,160
Speaker 2: started to go wrong for FTX.

125
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it all began in early November when a

126
00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,000
Speaker 3: crypto news outlet called coindesk published a report that shed

127
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,880
Speaker 3: some light on ftx's finances. And there's lots of technical

128
00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,119
Speaker 3: details that I sort of won't go too much into

129
00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:32,520
Speaker 3: all of those, but the basic idea was that FTX

130
00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,800
Speaker 3: was taking risks with the money that customers had put

131
00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,320
Speaker 3: on the exchange, and that's something that exchanges are not

132
00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 3: normally allowed to do. They're not banks, So when you

133
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,599
Speaker 3: put your money in a bank, the bank might invest

134
00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 3: that money and try and make you a return. Exchanges

135
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,440
Speaker 3: are not supposed to be doing that kind of thing.

136
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:46,680
Speaker 4: You know.

137
00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,599
Speaker 3: They make their money from charging your fee to do

138
00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,839
Speaker 3: the exchange, but they're not supposed to take big risks

139
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,560
Speaker 3: with your money. What emerged was that FTX had a

140
00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,000
Speaker 3: side company called Alimeter Research, which was also owned by

141
00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:05,760
Speaker 3: SBF the billionaire, and Alometer Research was taking essentially customers

142
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:10,400
Speaker 3: money in the form of ftx's cryptocurrency FTT, taking billions

143
00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,400
Speaker 3: of dollars of that and effectively gambling with it, putting

144
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,680
Speaker 3: it into really risky ventures to try and chase a

145
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 3: return for Alometer and for SBF to make the money.

146
00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,600
Speaker 3: And this was something that customers didn't know about. There

147
00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,120
Speaker 3: was not a lot of transparency. Even a lot of

148
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,880
Speaker 3: investors in FTX didn't know that this was happening. But

149
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,600
Speaker 3: this coin desk report, I guess, brought that to light

150
00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,640
Speaker 3: and it did start to raise some alarm bells for

151
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,000
Speaker 3: a lot of people who are looking on and thinking,

152
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,440
Speaker 3: hold on a minute, I mean, is that a very

153
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,680
Speaker 3: stable and sensible way for an exchange to be operating?

154
00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,880
Speaker 2: And so alarm bells were raised. But then did anyone

155
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,880
Speaker 2: expect the collapse that happened next?

156
00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,600
Speaker 3: So not immediately. It's certainly prompted some concerns, but things

157
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,560
Speaker 3: started to really spiral a couple of days later. So

158
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 3: the real trouble began when ftx's biggest rival, Binance, another

159
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,320
Speaker 3: crypto exchange. Its owner Chang peng Joo, announced that he

160
00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,040
Speaker 3: was going to sell all, essentially the money that he

161
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,280
Speaker 3: held in FTX. Then over the next couple of days,

162
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,760
Speaker 3: Binance turned around and said, actually, no, we're gonna help

163
00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,920
Speaker 3: to bail out FTX from this difficult situation that it's in.

164
00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 3: We're going to acquire it, and then a day later

165
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,400
Speaker 3: pulled out of that deal and said no, actually, we've

166
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 3: done our due diligence, We've taken a closer look at

167
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 3: ftx's books, and we think their problems are too big

168
00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,440
Speaker 3: for us to fix. That their finances are structured in

169
00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,240
Speaker 3: too risky a way. We are not going to buy them.

170
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,640
Speaker 3: And that is when people really started to panic, because

171
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,640
Speaker 3: again there was this sort of sense of oh, hold on,

172
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,640
Speaker 3: you know, finance has seen something here that is unstable.

173
00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,560
Speaker 3: And over the course of the next few days, customers

174
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,520
Speaker 3: rushed to take billions and billions of dollars out of

175
00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,199
Speaker 3: FTX in one go. Everyone panicked and wanted to take

176
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,439
Speaker 3: their money out. Problem being that, in part because of

177
00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,000
Speaker 3: this structure, FDx didn't have the money on hand to

178
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,560
Speaker 3: give to people. So because they had been using this

179
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,000
Speaker 3: money and tying it up in various projects and investments

180
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,360
Speaker 3: and that sort of thing, they ran into the technical

181
00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,160
Speaker 3: term is liquidity trouble. All of these people wanted to

182
00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:00,840
Speaker 3: pull their money out, and they said, ah, sorry, we

183
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,319
Speaker 3: don't actually have it on hand for you. And so

184
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,120
Speaker 3: essentially what happened then was that FDx collapsed. It went bankrupt,

185
00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,880
Speaker 3: bankruptcy being essentially kind of a bit of a holding

186
00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:11,840
Speaker 3: pattern that lets you try and figure out how you're

187
00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 3: going to pay all of these debts. And so a

188
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 3: whole bunch of people are left with money trapped inside

189
00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,840
Speaker 3: FDx that they can't get out, and SBF has had

190
00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 3: his entire fortune wiped out. It's all kind of exploded

191
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:23,160
Speaker 3: in a ball of flames.

192
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 2: What happens now if you're a customer, where do you

193
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:27,080
Speaker 2: go from here?

194
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,440
Speaker 3: Well, we really don't know, and it's kind of a

195
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,640
Speaker 3: bit of a brave new world. So SBF has left,

196
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,839
Speaker 3: he's resigned as the CEO as well, we know that,

197
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,079
Speaker 3: and a new CEO is being appointed who's kind of

198
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,200
Speaker 3: an expert in companies in this sort of difficult position

199
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 3: to try and figure out what can happen. But it's

200
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,560
Speaker 3: not entirely clear whether people will get their money back.

201
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,719
Speaker 3: And this is where we get into the question of regulation.

202
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 3: So I mentioned before that normal exchanges are regulated pretty

203
00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,880
Speaker 3: tightly in terms of what they can do with customers money.

204
00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,120
Speaker 3: Crypto exchanges have not generally been regulated in that way.

205
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,960
Speaker 3: They tend to be based offshore from the US and

206
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,320
Speaker 3: offshore from the countries that they operate in, in part

207
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,319
Speaker 3: so that they don't have to reveal as many details

208
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,160
Speaker 3: about their finances. And again I guess, as I said

209
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,079
Speaker 3: at the front, you know, a big part of crypto's

210
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,880
Speaker 3: promise was this freedom from government's, freedom from normal banking,

211
00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 3: this new unregulated way of dealing with money, and I

212
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,840
Speaker 3: guess in a situation like this you see the consequences

213
00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,600
Speaker 3: of that, which is that when something goes really wrong,

214
00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 3: as it has with FDx, there isn't really the same

215
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,480
Speaker 3: legal framework and protections that might normally be there to

216
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:31,959
Speaker 3: ensure that people will get their money back.

217
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,640
Speaker 2: I mean, if we hav't broader conversations about the regulation

218
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,520
Speaker 2: of crypto more generally, what do you think that this

219
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,280
Speaker 2: case study will mean for the rest of the crypto

220
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:41,760
Speaker 2: industry at LARTE, I.

221
00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,040
Speaker 3: Think it's a really big hit to the reputation of

222
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,439
Speaker 3: crypto in general. So it's already been a bit of

223
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,720
Speaker 3: a rough year for crypto. There have been sort of

224
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,560
Speaker 3: smaller failures throughout the year, some smaller exchanges and smaller companies,

225
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,320
Speaker 3: but again FTX is the big one. The fact that

226
00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,600
Speaker 3: this big fish, the guy who was being talked about

227
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,440
Speaker 3: as the same favior of crypto, has turned out to

228
00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,080
Speaker 3: have run his finances in such a risky way and

229
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,080
Speaker 3: has collapsed so spectacularly that undermines confidence in the whole thing.

230
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 3: And it must be said SBF, who's been tweeting all

231
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,320
Speaker 3: over the place in the last few days and saying

232
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,800
Speaker 3: all sorts of different things. I think he said in

233
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 3: an interview in the last couple of days, something along

234
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,320
Speaker 3: the lines of, oh, actually, lots of other exchanges are

235
00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,080
Speaker 3: already in this sort of trouble, you just don't know

236
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,360
Speaker 3: it yet, which is not exactly helping to establish that

237
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 3: sort of confidence. So it's certainly going to be an

238
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,439
Speaker 3: interesting challenge for the industry to prove that it is

239
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,000
Speaker 3: not vulnerable in the same way that FTX was.

240
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,040
Speaker 2: It will certainly be an interesting one to watch. And

241
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,439
Speaker 2: though it's not at all by any means, the most

242
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,319
Speaker 2: important part of this, I'd like to get to a

243
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,960
Speaker 2: stage in life where I too, am known by my initials.

244
00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 3: What's your middle name? Because I feel like you need three.

245
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:49,560
Speaker 2: That S doesn't quite have the same ring to it,

246
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,400
Speaker 2: But there you go. Thanks for joining us, Tom always

247
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:58,440
Speaker 2: a pleasures are thanks for joining us today on the

248
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,120
Speaker 2: Daily ODS. If you learned something from today's episode, don't

249
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,960
Speaker 2: forget to hit subscribe. So there's a TDA episode waiting

250
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,480
Speaker 2: for you every weekday morning, have a great day, and

251
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,079
Speaker 2: we'll be back again tomorrow morning.