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Speaker 1: Joining me on the line right now is doctor John Boffer.

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Speaker 1: Let me just make sure I've got the line lined

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Speaker 1: up there. Good morning to you, doctor Boffer.

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Speaker 2: Good morning now, doctor Boffer.

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Speaker 1: There has been two additional COVID nineteen deaths in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory which you say have not been reported by

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Speaker 1: the government. Can you tell us what's going on?

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Speaker 2: Look, one of them has been reported by the government

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Speaker 2: and one hasn't. But what the key issues They haven't

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Speaker 2: been recognized as COVID nineteen deaths and that it matters.

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Speaker 2: So in a pandemic, one of the central pinill pillars

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Speaker 2: of effective pandemic control is quality data and good data.

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Speaker 2: There's a national definition agreed by the Communical Disease Network

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Speaker 2: Australia what a COVID nineteen death is, and basically it's

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Speaker 2: common sense. Most people would accept there's someone's in the

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Speaker 2: acute phase of the COVID infection and they die, it

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Speaker 2: is a COVID nineteen death unless there's a clear cause

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Speaker 2: that can't be attributed to the COVID. So, for example,

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Speaker 2: if someone who's COVID positive gets knocked over by a

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Speaker 2: truck and dies because of that trauma, that's not a

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Speaker 2: COVID death. But if someone with COVID nineteen has a

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Speaker 2: heart attack or a stroke or dies of heart failure

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Speaker 2: pre existing conditions while they've got the COVID, that is

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Speaker 2: a COVID nineteen death. That's accepted standard nationally. It's got

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Speaker 2: all states and charities have been using up to now,

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Speaker 2: it's accepted internationally. It's really important that we abide by

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Speaker 2: those rules.

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Speaker 1: And doctor Boffer, is is that the case because the COVID, like,

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Speaker 1: because having COVID has contributed to them then you know,

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Speaker 1: potentially having that heart attack or having that stroke.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely So. Look if we take the UK for example,

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Speaker 2: they've done a study of five hundred thousand COVID deaths

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Speaker 2: and of those only eighteen thousand we're COVID alone directly

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Speaker 2: caused by COVID. All the others COVID cause another condition

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Speaker 2: which caused it. So what happens in the acute phase

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Speaker 2: of the COVID infection. You have a massive imminological response,

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Speaker 2: you have a massive inflammatory response. We know that information,

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Speaker 2: acute information causes heart attacks, causes strokes, and this sort

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Speaker 2: of response causes someone with pre existing heart failure to

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Speaker 2: what we call decompensates, so they end up with acute

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Speaker 2: or Pullman and heart failure. So the element caused death

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Speaker 2: might be a heart attack, it might be a stroke,

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Speaker 2: it might be acute heart failure, but it's been caused

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Speaker 2: by COVID. So that's what happens in a COVID situation.

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Speaker 2: The National definition accepts that, and I'm pleased to say

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Speaker 2: I've had a conversation with the Health ministon and Chaster

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Speaker 2: files this morning. She accepts that, and she understands now

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Speaker 2: the process. It is really important how this occurs. We

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Speaker 2: need to include the Chose Office in this assessment and

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Speaker 2: not just clinicians on the ground. Conditions on the ground

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Speaker 2: can get this wrong, so there needs it's really important

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Speaker 2: that we get it right. And in fact, the Northern

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Speaker 2: Church has now had tragically for COVID related deaths. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to overstate that we've had more than four

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Speaker 2: thousand cases of COVID and we've had four deaths, so

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Speaker 2: that's a small number compared to what we would have had.

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Speaker 2: That's because vaccination is highly effective at preventing death from COVID,

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Speaker 2: and the majority of vaccinated people and young people will

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Speaker 2: have a mild illness but for the unvaccinated population, COVID

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Speaker 2: even omicron is still a potentially deadly disease. It's as

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Speaker 2: deadly as the initial COVID, well, the initial COVID Australian

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Speaker 2: that came out of wum hand at the same level

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Speaker 2: of that. It's not quite as deadly as delta, but

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Speaker 2: still a very deadly virus if you're unvaccinated or not

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Speaker 2: fully protected by vaccination.

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Speaker 1: So doctor Boffer, with the four COVID related deaths that

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Speaker 1: we've had in the Northern Territory, have they been vaccinated?

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Speaker 2: The vaccination status of these people has only been partly revealed.

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Speaker 2: That's the duty of the show's office. I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to reach confidentiality by talking about that, but the show,

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Speaker 2: I think I understand even today in the press comments

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Speaker 2: will make that clear. It is what shows all around

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Speaker 2: the country you've been doing talking about deaths in terms

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Speaker 2: of vaccination days. So they unvaccinated, one dose, two days boosted.

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Speaker 2: It really matters. Yeah, because that data really matters, It

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Speaker 2: really makes it brings the point home and we know

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Speaker 2: it's really clear. It makes a huge if you're unvaccinated

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Speaker 2: and you get omicon and you're over seventy the mortality

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Speaker 2: rates about three and a half percent in Australia. That's

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Speaker 2: very significant. If you're fully vaccinated and boosted, that drops

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Speaker 2: by more than ten fold, even close to twenty five

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Speaker 2: So you're very protected with vaccination compared to not being vaccinated.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Boffett. I know that there'll be some people listening

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Speaker 1: this morning who sit on the other side of the fence,

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Speaker 1: and they'll be thinking to themselves, you know, should we

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Speaker 1: actually be saying that people have passed away as a

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Speaker 1: result of COVID if indeed they've had a heart attack

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Speaker 1: or a stroke.

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Speaker 2: Oh look, I think, well, then we need to expose people.

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Speaker 2: Then need to get and understand how most people actually

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Speaker 2: die with this disease. It's not COVID itself that directly

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Speaker 2: kills people. In the vast majority cases, COVID aggravates a

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Speaker 2: pre existing underlying condition. That's why, well, people without underlying

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Speaker 2: conditions do so much better than people with underlying conditions.

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Speaker 2: That's how it actually happens. And so you know, COVID

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Speaker 2: day four, day five causes heart attack, It causes they

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Speaker 2: withh me is you know heart the heart stops spedding properly,

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Speaker 2: it causes strokes, it causes these other conditions in the

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Speaker 2: acute phase of the illness. If we only counted direct

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Speaker 2: deaths caused by COVID, as I just said in England,

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Speaker 2: you'd have eighteen thousand instead of five hundred thousand, So

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Speaker 2: you can see what sort of difference it makes through

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Speaker 2: it will make the numbers look good. It will make

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Speaker 2: it look like COVID hardly kills anybody. So that's not

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Speaker 2: the reality COVID. What people need to understand is would

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Speaker 2: this person have died if they didn't get COVID, And

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Speaker 2: if the answer to that is, if the answer is

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Speaker 2: the only reason they've died is because they got COVID,

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Speaker 2: it has to be counted as the COVID death. Otherwise

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Speaker 2: we have data that's inaccurate and it won't help us

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Speaker 2: in planning the response or understanding how severe the illness is.

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Speaker 1: Now, Doctor Boffer, So you said that they are going

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Speaker 1: to actually change, you know, change this and you're expecting

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Speaker 1: that they're going to make an announcement at the press

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Speaker 1: conference today. Why in your opinion is that so important? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think we need to we need to get

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Speaker 2: the balance right. On the one hand, we don't want

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Speaker 2: to catastrophize, as I think the police chimists said. No

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Speaker 2: one wants to do that, and we want to make

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Speaker 2: it really clear that if the vaccinated people and young people,

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Speaker 2: this will be a mild on us. But on the

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Speaker 2: other hand, we don't want to trivialize either, because if

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Speaker 2: we want the unvaccinated people to get vaccinated and we

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Speaker 2: want everyone to get boosted, we have to be honest

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Speaker 2: and accurate in our reporting of death because obviously people

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Speaker 2: out there are concerned about premature death, as they should be,

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Speaker 2: and it can be avoided and prevented with vaccination. But

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Speaker 2: if we don't get data right and we don't use

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Speaker 2: each death when it occurs to highlight the importance of

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Speaker 2: prevention and vaccination and other measures to protect yourself, then

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Speaker 2: we're not really helping people take responsibility themselves to actually

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Speaker 2: get us out of this pandemic. We've sent it all

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Speaker 2: over the country chief health officers talking about the death

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Speaker 2: and talking about death s in relation to vaccination status.

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Speaker 2: That is important because it is a common good message

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Speaker 2: that they're giving, and they're doing it for good reason.

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Speaker 2: We're not talking about names, we're not talking about people

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Speaker 2: that can be identified, but we are talking about those

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Speaker 2: really key characteristics which have an impact on public health

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Speaker 2: and the common good approach to pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Well, doctor John Boffer, we really appreciate your time this morning,

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Speaker 1: always do, of course speaking to us this morning as

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Speaker 1: the top doctor at the Central Australian Aboriginal Health Congress.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for your time today. How are

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Speaker 1: things going in elis the moment?

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Speaker 2: Oh, we've got a lot of rain, with a lot

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Speaker 2: of remote communities cut off right out of chime. When

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Speaker 2: they've got a lot of COVID, planes can't land. It

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Speaker 2: is complicating everything. We've got an awful lot of COVID.

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Speaker 2: It's spreading everywhere very quickly. We've been able to slow

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Speaker 2: it down effectively in some places, and this new lock

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Speaker 2: in strategy is also really helping. So you know, vaccination,

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Speaker 2: mass lock ins, restricting movement, all these things are helping

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Speaker 2: to slow it down. But it is everywhere, and you know, unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: the more widespread it is, the more this virus will

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Speaker 2: find the people who aren't vaccinated, and they're the people

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Speaker 2: are most worried about.

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Speaker 1: And are you confident that the health system down there,

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Speaker 1: particularly the hospital, is able to cope with those additional cases.

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Speaker 2: Look, the hospital is doing a very good job at

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Speaker 2: the moment, is coping and the ICU capacity is not

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Speaker 2: any it's not out its limit. So we are coping

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Speaker 2: very well, well, coping without elective surgeon and with a

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Speaker 2: lot of service cut, I should say so, but we

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Speaker 2: are coping. But as case numbers continue to rise and

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Speaker 2: hospitalizations continues to rise, we have to watch that. Now

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Speaker 2: the government are bringing in this new measure to have

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Speaker 2: lock ins in regions, in remote areas, so people stop

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Speaker 2: moving in and out of town for a few weeks,

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Speaker 2: so slow down movement. That will really help to slow

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Speaker 2: down the rate of spread, which is what we want

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Speaker 2: to do. We want to slow it down. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're in this stage of containment and in fact management

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Speaker 2: to a large extent now, but we just want to

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Speaker 2: slow it down and hopefully that will start to happen

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Speaker 2: in the coming days or even weeks, so then understone

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Speaker 2: stays high as they've been well.

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Speaker 1: Doctor John Boffer, thank you very much for your time

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Speaker 1: this morning. No doubt we'll talk to you again soon.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you,