1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: But this week is actually Homelessness Week and it is 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: all aimed at shining the spotlight on the territory's urgent 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: need for more housing and joining us in the studio 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: right now, Executive Officer Peter McMillan of NT Shelter. Good 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: morning to you, Peter. 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. 7 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: Now you and I have spoken a bit over the 8 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: last few months, and I've got to say I think 9 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: that it's important that we do because we've had quite 10 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: a few people get in contact with us here at 11 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: the station about issues with not being able to find 12 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: a home. And when you talk about homelessness, I think 13 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: that it's impacting more territorians and much more broadly than 14 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: what a lot of people realize. 15 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: It certainly is, Katie, and I mean, when we're talking 16 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: about homelessness, it's not just people we might see sleeping 17 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: rough sleeping out by the casurin a foreshore in the city. 18 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: There are people that are couch surfing, sleeping in caravan parks, 19 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: rough sleeping certainly, and in temporary accommodation or emergency shelter. 20 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: And unfortunately, when we look back to two thousand and eight, 21 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: we had a plan and there was a strategy then 22 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: called the Road Home and that committed governments to essentially 23 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: hit a target by twenty twenty of halving the number 24 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: of homelessness people and providing a combination option for rough 25 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: sleepers for every rough sleeper. And we know where near that. 26 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 2: I mean, we've seen fourteen percent rise in homelessness nationally 27 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 2: since our census in twenty eleven. You know, we think 28 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 2: it's going to be higher again in twenty twenty one. 29 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: What's different is we had a vision back in two 30 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 2: thousand and eight, we had a gold go after and 31 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: what we don't have at the moment nationally is we 32 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: don't have a plan. And you know, your listeners will 33 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: know if you don't have a plan, you're planning to fail. 34 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what we're doing on homelessness. 35 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: And do we have any idea how many Territorians right 36 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: now are facing homelessness. 37 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: It's tough to get the exact number on that, of course, 38 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: it's very very difficult. A lot of people will be 39 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: in rental stress. And in the Darwin market, we know 40 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: that house prices for rent have gone up twenty one 41 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: percent and there's only point four percent vacancy, so there's 42 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: very you if any house is to rent at all, 43 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: let alone for those who are struggling to make ends 44 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: meet or at the affordable end of the market, So 45 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: we simply don't have a significant amount of stock at 46 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 2: any price point. Certainly got problems this week around homelessness, 47 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: and I guess the focus is to create awareness on 48 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 2: homelessness and what we can do to address it. We 49 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 2: do need the federal government to have a national plan. 50 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: Then there was a report released yesterday by a parliamentary 51 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 2: inquiry that recommended the establishment of a national plan because 52 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: there is an important role of leadership by the Commonwealth, 53 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: but also the states and territories need to get on board. 54 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: Right they are currently putting in expected to put money 55 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: into housing provisions, so building more social and affordable housing. 56 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: We're not seeing that here in the territory in our 57 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: urban communities. I mean, might hear announcement every now and 58 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: again have twenty million dollars for stimulus or for new housing, 59 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: which is always welcome, but it's not even replacing the 60 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 2: houses that are knocked down or sold. So we're not 61 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 2: getting anywhere on that. 62 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: And you and I've spoken about this before. We know 63 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: that it's you know that it's not just about the 64 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: public housing. It's about affordable housing as well, but it's 65 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: also about sort of professionals being able to find housing 66 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: if we want to try to boost the population in 67 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: the territory. 68 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's a story that's playing out in a lot 69 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: of regions and the Dalwin markets really are regional markets. 70 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: What's interesting up here is fifty percent of territories and renters. 71 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: And if you think, if you think about our family 72 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: down in Melbourne for example, that might be looking to 73 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: come up here for work. They've got their kids at school. 74 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 2: Why would they want to take the risk of giving 75 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: that all up, put backing the bags, moving the car 76 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 2: up and haven't got a house. I mean, it's just 77 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: not going to happen. So I'm really concerned this is 78 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: holding us back. 79 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: What do we need to see here in the Northern Territory. 80 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: Like if you had a bit of a wish list, 81 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: what would happen in the territory over the next few years. 82 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: It was a few easy wins. The first thing we 83 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: should do is get a decent share of homeless is 84 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: funding national funding and we've got only one point five 85 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: percent of the total funding, although we have one point 86 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: three percent of the population. I've just got have you 87 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: got any water caves about? I'll try to get you 88 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: some water. I've just got to try this sort of thing. 89 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 2: But no, no, sorry about that. So we've got nineteen 90 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: million dollars that we get each year from the federal 91 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: government out of one point six billion dollars, and stateside 92 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: Western Australia that have half the number of homeless people 93 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: that we do get twice as much money, and so 94 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 2: or more than twice much money, actually quite a bit more. 95 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: So getting our fair share is important, and that is 96 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 2: one of the things that was recommended yesterday again that 97 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: funding should be based on needs. So that's one of 98 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: the things that we can Yeah. 99 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: Peter, we are just trying to or I'm trying to 100 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: find my producer to try and find just some water. 101 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: It's always you never want to come on radio and 102 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: have a hiccups or or five in your throats. 103 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it happens to me. Usually happens to me 104 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: just after eleven o'clock most days, and I get a 105 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: cough and I can't stop it. So hopefully Max is 106 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: listening out there and finds you some water. 107 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: That's all good and sorry, I should have continued sort of. 108 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: The thing that I was going to say as well 109 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: is things like getting Commonwealth's ren assistance. That's money that 110 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: territory is not grabbing that's available. If we can grow 111 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: our community housing sector, that's an easy win. I know 112 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 2: the Urban Minister, Urban Housing Minister Kate Warden wants to 113 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: do some significant work in that space. That's that's encouraging, 114 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 2: but it's not going to be enough. So we do 115 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 2: need to have a conversation around what are we trying 116 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 2: to achieve in the territory with growing our economy. We 117 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: want a forty billion dollar economy of twenty thirty. I'm 118 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: very concerned that we're not going to have the housing 119 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 2: for the future population, let alone existing population. And if 120 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: people Katie can't find a place to rent, and we're 121 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 2: hearing many, many stories of this, people that simply find 122 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: nothing that's affordable. Landlords have increased the rents by a 123 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 2: twenty five percent or more in some cases because they 124 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 2: can because there's just no other stock. You've got a 125 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: tough choice to make, you know, can I afford that 126 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 2: or do I need to move south? 127 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: And this is what we have been hearing, and we 128 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: heard a bit of this. Throughout last week. We had 129 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: a couple of people call and get in contact with 130 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: us to say just that, to essentially say that you 131 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: know that they were in a situation with it proper, 132 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: that they were living in the rental that they were 133 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: living in had been sold, they were having to move out, 134 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: having to find somewhere else to live, but then actually 135 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: going through the process of being able to find somewhere else. Firstly, 136 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: the rental price had been astronomical, and secondly, so many 137 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: others applying for it that it's really hard to actually 138 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: win one. 139 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to be a rental right now. To 140 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 2: be honest, you have to hope you've got a good landlord, 141 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 2: a reasonable landlord. The sure prices are going to go up, 142 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: but let's make it reasonable. Let's not be greedy and 143 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: us for thirty percent, especially from people who have been 144 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 2: living in their property for four years. I've been good tenants. 145 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: It's just ridiculous to treat people like that. And we 146 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: just need to ask ourselves what are we trying to achieve. 147 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: We wanted to grow to population. That'll bring us in 148 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: GST revenue, It'll bring in new business jobs and population 149 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 2: growth again, I think the key thing is we just 150 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: don't have a plan for housing in our urban communities. 151 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: And while it's great, we're spending some money in the 152 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 2: remote regions, and that's desperately important. If we don't have 153 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 2: an urban plan, we're going to go no where, We're 154 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 2: going nowhere at the moment. In fact, we're going backwards. Katie. 155 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Peter, I always appreciate you coming in and 156 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: having a chat to us about this, because, as I say, 157 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: I actually think that the situation with homelessness and you know, 158 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: people being unable to find somewhere to live, is much 159 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,239 Speaker 1: broader than a lot of Territorians realize at the moment. 160 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: Particularly if you're somebody who is lucky enough to own 161 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: your own home, you might not realize the stress that 162 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: others are under right now when it comes to having somewhere. 163 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: To live exactly. And I think if you're out there 164 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 2: listening and you think, well, why is homeless is important 165 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 2: to me? The reality is that homelessess has many different 166 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 2: shapes and forms, and we know there are a lot 167 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 2: of people that flee domestic family violence and homeless in 168 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: need housing. We need housing first. We need to give 169 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: them the housing and then the supports that they need. 170 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: We know that there are also lots of people, especially 171 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: older women, that may have had a relationship breakdown and 172 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: they don't have enough superinnovation or assets or cash to 173 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: afford rent in these conditions. So it really is a 174 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: challenging plan. There are a lot of smart people out 175 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 2: there who have solutions and have ideas, and we need 176 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: to find the cash at the end of the day 177 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: that's going to go into new housing. We know we 178 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: need the housing. Nobody's disputing that. The Commonwealth goverment at 179 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 2: the moment is saying it's not their job to do that. 180 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: The federal opposition saying, well, that's not actually right. We 181 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 2: can do something federally, but the territory government needs to 182 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: also be at the plate. And when they say, Katie, 183 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: they don't have money to invest in housing because of 184 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: a fiscal situation, they need put it to you this way, 185 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: that's a furfe because they're already spending that amount of 186 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: money or more on the health system, on the cost 187 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 2: of homelessness, mental health, drug and alcohol addiction. I mean, 188 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: we do have a code yellow out at RDH. I'd 189 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: be very surprised if that wasn't driven in part by 190 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: a lot of people that shouldn't have to be there 191 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 2: if they were properly housed and had healthy lives. 192 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Peter McMillan, it is always really good to 193 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: catch up with you. I really appreciate your time, Executive 194 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: Officer of NT Shelter, Thanks so much. 195 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 2: Thanks for the water too. Thank you.