1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: Daily OS. It is Wednesday, the fourth of September. 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: I'm Billy, I'm Zara. 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: This week X was banned in Brazil due to a 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision over what can and can't be said online. 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: It is the latest in a string of lawsuits and 8 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: bad news in golfing X, although X itself paints a 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: very different picture. So about two years on from when 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: billionaire Elon Musk took over the ownership of X, what 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: is happening to it and what does its future look like? 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: We'll tell you what you need to know in today's episode. 13 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: But first, Sarah, what is making headlines today? 14 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: Community health, research, women's and First Nations groups have come 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: together in a job for federal, state and territory leaders 16 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: to do more to address the role of alcohol in 17 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: domestic violence. An open letter to the National Cabinet from 18 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 2: the Foundation for Alcohol Research and Education were signed by 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: dozens of community leaders and organizations. It urged leaders to 20 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: implement the recommendations from a recent report on domestic violence prevention. 21 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: This included proposals to boost GP and mental health services 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 2: and coordinated responses on alcohol harm reduction measures and liquor 23 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 2: regulations to prevent gender based violence. National Cabinet leaders are 24 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 2: scheduled to meet again this Friday. 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: Firefighters are monitoring the situation in Southeast Queensland Scenic Rim 26 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: region following uncontrolled fires driven by hot and dry weather. 27 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: Around thirty fire and rescue service crews were deployed yesterday 28 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: morning to manage multiple uncontrolled fires, with local crews supported 29 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: by firefighters from Brisbane and the North Coast. Residents are 30 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: urged to remain alert to changing conditions in the region. 31 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: A Queensline teenager has been charged with allegedly plotting a 32 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: terror attack on a school in Brisbane's North. The sixteen 33 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: year old reportedly attempted to purchase a gun online, according 34 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: to local media outlets. However, the Australian Federal Police has 35 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: not commented on specific details of the case. The AFP 36 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: said there is quote no current threat to safety. 37 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: And today's good news. A world first medical breakthrough could 38 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: transform the way children with leukemia and bone marriage disorders 39 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: are treated. Scientists at Melbourne's Murdered Children Research Institute, with 40 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: the support of researchers in the UK have found a 41 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: missing puzzle piece in the process of recreating human blood 42 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: stem cells. The discovery means researchers will one day be 43 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: able to create entire blood systems in a Petrie dish 44 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: and pave the way for lab grown cells to be 45 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: used in blood stem cell and bone marrowed transplants. 46 00:02:53,840 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 2: Coming up today's deep dive, but first a quick break. Okay, Billy, 47 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: So every so oft when we talk about a different 48 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: social media platform. Today we are doing an entire deep 49 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: dive dedicated to X. You said in the intro that 50 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: this week X was banned in Brazil, so I presume 51 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: that is the newshoker on which this episode is based. 52 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: Can you just run me through what happened there? 53 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, So talking about X, which every time that we 54 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: have covered X recently, we always clarify that it was 55 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: previously known as Twitter. 56 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: Still call it that. 57 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: Yes, it's hard to stop calling it that, but I 58 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: think we can probably stop saying that now. It's been 59 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: about two years since Elon Musk took it over and 60 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: about a year since we started calling it X. So 61 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: on Saturday night at midnight in Brazil, users of X 62 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: could no longer access the app on their phones. And now, 63 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: in terms of the impact that this has on Brazil's population, 64 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: it's actually X's fifth largest international market, wow, with about 65 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: twenty million uses there. 66 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: Okay, so just overnight those users could no longer access 67 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: the app itself exactly. 68 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: And this decision was made by the country's Supreme Court, 69 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: and it followed months of negotiations and disagreements and back 70 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: and forth between Brazilian authorities and Elon Musk, who, as 71 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: we said, he is the owner now of X. He's 72 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: not the CEO. He gave that to another person once 73 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: he took it over, but he is still the owner 74 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: and is still heavily involved. 75 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: Sorry, just to clarify, he gave it to another person 76 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: after putting it to a vote ye and saying if 77 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 2: you vote, I will step down a CEO. And that 78 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 2: is what happened. 79 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: Yes, he used the pole feature on X, and so 80 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: essentially the parties were disagreeing over misinformation on the platform 81 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: and basically Musk was refusing to comply with court orders 82 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: for X to remove certain content. 83 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 2: I think that this is one of the interesting examples 84 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,119 Speaker 2: of when multinational companies, so companies that have their head 85 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: quarters in one country but operate in so many how 86 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 2: they have to still obviously obey domestic law. And in 87 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 2: Brazil this is seemingly reached boiling point. What happened to 88 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: get us to hear? Yeah? 89 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: Exactly. And I think what's interesting is that when Elon 90 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: Musk took X over, one of the key reasons he 91 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: said he wanted to own it was because of free speech. 92 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: And as we know, in the US, freedom of speech 93 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: is a constitutionally enshrined right. But in other countries, for example, 94 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: in Australia, that's not a constitutionally enshrined right. And what's 95 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: interesting here is the base country that your company starts 96 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: in doesn't necessarily have the same laws as the other 97 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: countries that you might expand into. Does that make sense? 98 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. And I mean I think that it's 99 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: particularly significant when it comes to social media companies because, 100 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 2: as you say, they really rub up against so many 101 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 2: parts of the law. Run me through what parts of 102 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: the law we're talking about when it comes to Brazil. 103 00:05:58,279 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: Why did this happen? 104 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: This is all about free speech, okay, and more specifically, 105 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: it's about political miss and disinformation. 106 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: Do you want to quickly just clarify those two? 107 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: Yeah? So misinformation is false information that is spread regardless 108 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,799 Speaker 1: of what the intent was. And then disinformation is also 109 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: false information that was spread but with the specific intent 110 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: of it being fake news or false information. 111 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, and so we're talking about both of those 112 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 2: issues today. Give me a bit of background when it 113 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 2: comes to Brazil. 114 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: So the story kind of starts in October twenty twenty two, 115 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: which is actually when Elon Musk took X over, but 116 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: it's also when there was an election in Brazil and 117 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: far right leader Ja Bolsonaro lost to Brazil's now president 118 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: Lula da Silva, who is considered more left now. Following 119 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: that vote, Bolsonaro supporters led riots across Brazil, which you 120 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: might remember, and it was an extremely tumultuous time for 121 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: the country. Now, since the fallout of this election, Brazilian 122 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: authorities have really intensified their efforts to combat online right 123 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: wing content and like I said, misinformation and disinformation that 124 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: is spreading on social media, including X. 125 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: And so the election was in twenty twenty two, and 126 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: you say that's when the story begun, But what's happened 127 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: between then and now? Why are we now only hearing 128 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 2: about X being taken offline in Brazil? 129 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's kind of been taking place over the 130 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: last few months, which you might have seen some articles about, 131 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: but it's really intensified this past week. I'll take you 132 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: through a quick timeline. There have been lots of different 133 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: twists and turns in this stories, and so I'm just 134 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: going to take you through some of the key moments 135 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: at a really top level. So in April, Brazil's Supreme 136 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: Court Judge Alexander de Morrees issued an order to X 137 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: requiring it to suspend dozens of accounts for allegedly spreading disinformation. Now, 138 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: these are accounts that the judge said was spreading content 139 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: that threatens Brazil's democracy, and we know that many of 140 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: these accounts belonged to supporters of the former right wing 141 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: president Jaya Bossnaro, who has just told Tristan who lost 142 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: the election. Now, X didn't ultimately comply with that order. 143 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: Initially Elon Musk said that they would comply, but ultimately 144 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: they didn't, and Musk actually announced in August that X 145 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: would close its office in Brazil as a result of 146 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: the orders. Now, remember that just because you close the 147 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: office doesn't mean that the actual rut closes down. So 148 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 1: the platform was still operating, but they had closed the office, 149 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: and he has consistently criticized the judge's orders. He's called 150 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: it censorship, and you know, he's used X to consistently 151 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: say that he strongly disagrees with these orders. Then last week, 152 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court ordered that X's platform be suspended in 153 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: the country all together because of it continued non compliance 154 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: with the orders. 155 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: So let's just recap that. In April of this year, 156 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 2: the Brazilian Supreme Court said that X had to do xyz, 157 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: which included taking a whole bunch of accounts off line, 158 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: which they believed was spreading disinformation. Elon Musk ultimately refused 159 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 2: to do that as the owner of the app. And 160 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 2: then last week the Supreme Court ordered that X's platform 161 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: be suspended altogether. 162 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: Exactly okay, and they said that the platform should be 163 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: suspended until quote all court orders are complied with, finds 164 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: a duly paid and a new legal representative for the 165 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: company is appointed in the country. Now the legal representative mentioned, 166 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: they're just some quick context. Essentially, last month the judge 167 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: threatened X's legal representative with arrest, and that led that 168 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: legal representative to resign, and now the company doesn't have 169 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: a legal representative in Brazil, or at least hasn't named one, 170 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: and that is another one of the key aspects that 171 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: brazil Supreme Court has a huge issue with and what 172 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: led them to suspend the platform in the country. Also 173 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: another quick bit of context. This all comes ahead of 174 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: local elections in Brazil in October, when about one hundred 175 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: and fifty million people will be heading to the pulse. 176 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 2: I think that that's the point about the legal representative 177 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: is really interesting and again seems to be a characteristic 178 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: of this fight the governments are having with big tech 179 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 2: because so many of them, as you have said, are 180 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: headquartered overseas and then don't have people on the ground, 181 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: so that if there is this issue with local authorities, 182 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 2: it's quite difficult for them to find someone to engage with. 183 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: So that's a really interesting element. It seems like there 184 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 2: is a lot going on when it comes to Brazil. 185 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 2: You said there's an election coming up, and there's been 186 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 2: this to and fro between the Supreme Court and Elon Musk. 187 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: What's the fallout. 188 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: Being well, Musk has been obviously extremely critical of the decision. 189 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: He has tweeted many many times also don't know if 190 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: we can say tweet anymore X. 191 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 2: To it. 192 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: One of his statements said, quote free speech is the 193 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: bedrock of democracy and an unelected pseudo judge in Brazil 194 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: is destroying it for political purposes. So he's basically saying 195 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: that the judge is making all of these decisions based 196 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: on his own politics and that it's not legal. He 197 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: also called the ban illegal political censorship by an evil 198 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: dictator cosplaying as a judge, so not mincing his words. 199 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: On the other hand, there is Brazil's president who supports 200 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: the decision. He has urged Musk to quote accept the 201 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: country's rules and respect the Supreme Court's decision. 202 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: And I mean there are these political undertones to it. 203 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: Like you said that those accounts were connected with the 204 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 2: former president. We now have someone on the opposite side 205 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 2: of politics who is in power in Brazil, So I'm 206 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: sure there's a fair bit of tension there. 207 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, At the risk of complete oversimplification, I think it's 208 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: fair to say that the judge is basically seen as 209 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: a hero to the left and is seen as making 210 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: a really evil decision by the right. Just one more 211 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: quote from the current president of Brazil, Lula de Silva. 212 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: He also said about Musk quote just because he has 213 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: money doesn't mean he can do whatever he wants. 214 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 2: The whole time while you've been talking about this, I've 215 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 2: been thinking about the fact that this is not by 216 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,599 Speaker 2: any means the first, second, or third time we have 217 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 2: spoken about X on this podcast. And here in Australia 218 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: there have been some tensions with the social media app 219 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 2: and regulatory kind of oversight. Can you take us through 220 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: what Ela Musk is dealing with around the rest of 221 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: the world, because it isn't just contained to Brazil. 222 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, and in Australia is one of the other most 223 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: famous examples where there has been a really high profile 224 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: legal challenge to Musk and it was over the same thing. 225 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: It was over free speech. So you might remember earlier 226 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: this year Australia's own e Safety Commissioner sued X for 227 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: knoplying with a court order. So the commissioner ordered X 228 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 1: to take down footage of a stabbing in Sydney, which 229 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: X again refused to do due to free speech now. 230 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: X argued at the time that quote global takedown orders 231 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: go against the very principle of a free and open 232 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: internet and threatened free speech everywhere. I feel like you 233 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: could probably Control C Control V that that quote and 234 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: put it into the current context of what they're dealing with. Now. 235 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: That case was actually then dropped by the E Safety Commissioner, 236 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: so it's not ongoing, but does show that, you know, again, 237 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: free speech is one of the key values at the 238 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: center of this new era of X under Elon Musk, 239 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: and it's really interesting how that translates around the world, 240 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: not just in the US, where again it's a constitutionally 241 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: enshrined rite. 242 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 2: I think that anyone that uses X, and I count 243 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: myself in that category. 244 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: Has more of a silent user though. 245 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 2: I just love I'm such a sleuth on X. But 246 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: it has changed quite dramatically, like there has been a 247 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 2: very very consistent and obvious transformation of the app since 248 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: Elon Musk took over. You know, the blue tick so 249 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 2: one thing, but you can very clearly see that there 250 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: is a lot of missing disinformation on the app, and 251 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: Elon Musk himself is suggesting that that is, you know, 252 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 2: the bedrock of free speech. Can you just walk me 253 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 2: through what's happened since he took over the app? Just 254 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: in I guess a bird's eye sense. 255 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because you know, you and I have 256 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: both used Twitter over the years or X over the years, 257 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: and it does feel like there have been a lot 258 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: of changes. And you know, personally, I don't really tweet 259 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: anymore or go on it anymore. But it's hard to 260 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: know if that's just a youth thing or if there's 261 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: this big shift globally. So, just to recap, Musk bought 262 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: X in twenty twenty two. When he bought the social 263 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: media it was obviously called Twitter as we've gone through, 264 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: and he bought it for forty four billion dollars. Now, 265 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: when he took it over, there was just under eight 266 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: thousand people who worked at the company. In the year 267 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: after he took over, that went down to one thousand, 268 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: five hundred, which is about an eighty percent cut of 269 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: their workforce. Some of them were fired, some of them 270 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: coulditt And that stat came from a BBC interview with 271 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: Elon Musk, so those are his own words. Now X's 272 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: valuation has also gone down. 273 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 2: Its valuation meaning how much it's worth. 274 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: How much the company is worth. So two years ago, 275 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: like I said, it was worth forty four billion dollars. 276 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: Although Musk has repeatedly suggested that he overpaid for the platform, 277 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: but it is now widely estimated to be valued at 278 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: about half of that, So that's about twenty billion dollars 279 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: wiped from its valuation. 280 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I guess you also just have to then 281 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: take into consideration if he's saying he overpaid for it. 282 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: Evaluation is only as much as someone will pay for it, 283 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: So until the next sale goes through, it will be 284 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: difficult to know. Yeah, that looks like. 285 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: But clearly there's a general understanding that it's not worth 286 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: as much today as it was two years ago. Now, 287 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: beyond the financials, we know that the spread of misinformation 288 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: has increased significantly since Musk took over Last year. Actually, 289 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: the European Union issued a warning saying that X is 290 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: the biggest source of mis and disinformation across the EU. 291 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 2: Wow. 292 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: We also know that advertisers have stepped away from X. 293 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: In fact, X last month sued a group of advertisers 294 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: for allegedly orchestrating a massive boycott, which it says deprived 295 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: the company of billions in advertiser revenue. The next at 296 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: I looked at is traffic to the website. Now there 297 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: are conflicting reports on this, one report by digital intelligence 298 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: firm similar Web they reported that traffic was down fourteen 299 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: percent in October last year, so that was one years 300 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: since Musk had bought it. However, Musk himself has been 301 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: saying that they have been seeing record high usage recently. 302 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: Whichever way you look at it, I think it's fair 303 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: to say that it has been a very tumultuous time 304 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: for X. Maybe that's something that's always going to happen 305 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: when a company comes under new ownership, but this is 306 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: something that's happening on a really global stage, and you know, 307 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: it just feels like there's legal fight after legal fight 308 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: at the moment. The title of this podcast is at 309 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: the beginning of the end for X. It's hard to say, 310 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: but I'm sure Elon Musk definitely has his fair share 311 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: of legal challenges ahead of him. 312 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 2: That he does. Billy, thank you for taking us through 313 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 2: that and making sense of what I see on X 314 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: every single day, which is an interesting array of content. 315 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Daily 316 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: Os to help us grow. We would love it if 317 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 2: you could hit follow on Spotify or Apple, or if 318 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 2: you're watching us on YouTube, you can subscribe there too. 319 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: We will be back again tomorrow for another episode of 320 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 2: the daily Ohs. But until then, I have a great Wednesday. 321 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 322 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: Bungelung Caalgutin woman from Gadighl country. The daly oz acknowledges 323 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 324 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest 325 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the 326 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,959 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.