1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: The Wiggles acknowledged the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: and their connections to land, see and community. We pay 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: our respects to elders, past, present and emerging. 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: Welcome to We'll Talk, a podcast for parents. I'm Simon, 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: Simon James Price. 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 3: Oh I did yes? 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: Price with why exactly? 8 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 3: I am Blocky Gillespie no middle name. 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 2: That's right. We've been through this before. 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 3: Yep, Dad didn't want us to have one. 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: He's got a lot to ask for your dad. We've 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: been through this before too. 13 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 3: Yes, Today we are talking with doctor Norman Swant. 14 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: Can't wait. 15 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 3: He is a doctor, a health journalist and a longtime 16 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 3: presenter of ABC Radio Nationals The Health Report and something 17 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 3: we hear from parents all the time. I know the 18 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 3: pandemic was years ago, but parenting still feels different. 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, because even if you weren't a parent during COVID 20 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 2: or your child was a baby, then a lot of 21 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: families feel like the ripple effects are still here. Children 22 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: seem to be a bit sick more often, parents feel 23 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 2: more on edge about behavior. Screams I guess have really 24 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 2: crept in as a default, and everyone's wondering what's normal 25 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: and what should I actually worry about. 26 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 3: But before we speak to mister doctor Swan, Yes, yeah, 27 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 3: I just got back from Japan. Yes, but do you 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 3: know I think this is good for singers act. While 29 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 3: I was there, I saw something little pop up and 30 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 3: it was not only do children come home and wash 31 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 3: thatw This might not be true, come home wash their 32 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 3: hands of an afternoon, but it's quite a normal thing 33 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 3: for them to have a glass of warm water and 34 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 3: salt and straight away wash like gargle and rinse your 35 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: mouth as well, because that's where germs are stored before 36 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 3: they then go down and make you sick. I thought, 37 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 3: that's brilliant. 38 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 2: Is this just in Japan? 39 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 3: Well, I got it while I was there, but it 40 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 3: was sorry. It was about Japanese children that they come 41 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 3: home and do that. I thought, I'm gonna that is 42 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 3: really good. 43 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 2: That is good. So you just you just gurgle the 44 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: salt water in you. 45 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, warm water, google that kind of rins in your 46 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 3: mouth like you would your hands. 47 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I'm doing my salt water every morning, are you. Yeah. 48 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: It doesn't make you feel sick, no, no, no, you know, 49 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: And I've had a sore threat of since no, you wouldn't. 50 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: That's part of our new health routine. 51 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 3: We're once again the pods brought us together. I'm the 52 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 3: same talk about algorithm. 53 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I get taichy walking for men over fifty. 54 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 2: I think we talked. I don't know. It's a blurn 55 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 2: ou what conversation I have in here or what I 56 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: have in real life? You know what I mean? But 57 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 2: the men they talked shredded. Ah, the tch walkers they're 58 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 2: ripped right like nobody fat. Yeah, unbelievable. So but that's 59 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 2: what the hits me with. 60 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 3: And have you started trying that adult nappies, Well then 61 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 3: you can walk for ages? 62 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 2: Yea walker, salt water nappy walk. 63 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 3: I have seen you go around the office. Now there 64 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 3: makes more sense. That's very controlled. 65 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. 66 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 3: Okay, if we could ask. 67 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: We should doctor Norman Swan, sir, mister doctor Norman Swan 68 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: about about nappies and tachi walking. 69 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 3: Yes, you will remember doctor Norman Swan has that calm 70 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 3: voice of reason through COVID, breaking down what the evidence 71 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 3: actually said without the panic. He's the host of ABC 72 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 3: Radio Nationals The Health Report, and he's readden a stack 73 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 3: of books over the years, including so you want to 74 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 3: know what's good for your kids. Now, this isn't a 75 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 3: COVID recap episode. It's just a reality check about what's 76 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 3: chained in the world around children since twenty twenty, what 77 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 3: hasn't changed, and how that might be showing up in 78 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: our homes now. 79 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking through the big parent pain points see 80 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: endless daycare, signa Spira. What's worth worrying about with germs 81 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 2: and sharing food and what the evidence says about screens 82 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 2: and behavior. So lucky, let's bring him in, mister sir, 83 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 2: Doctor Swan, Welcome to Wiggle Talk. 84 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 3: Dr Norman Swan, Welcome to Wiggle Talk. 85 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 4: It's a delight to be with you. 86 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 3: It's so nice to hear your voice during COVID. I actually, 87 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: while we still could, I drove from Sydney to Melbourne 88 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 3: a lot to see my family and hearing your voice 89 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 3: now is kind of takes me back to not in 90 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 3: a bad way. You were such a voice of reason 91 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 3: and calm back then. So thank you for talking to 92 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 3: us this morning. We've got your book here, which we 93 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 3: would love to talk about a little bit later. You 94 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 3: want to know what's good for your kids, But I'd 95 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 3: just like to ask you first kind of about that 96 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 3: COVID time. Where are we at now? Are there still 97 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 3: ripples from that with our children, with our health. 98 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 4: There's really good news as we're speaking. Every year since 99 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 4: the pandemic began, there was a surge of COVID over Christmas. 100 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 4: That was one of the signs that it was a 101 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 4: pandemic because it didn't follow the rules of saying being 102 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 4: a winter virus like flu. There's an exception to that, 103 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 4: by the way, but anyway, flu is mostly a late 104 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 4: autumn spring virus, winter virus. But COVID, it just didn't 105 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 4: pay those rules. It was just coming whenever the situation 106 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 4: was right, and a new version of COVID came along 107 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 4: this year over Christmas or last year into this year 108 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 4: over Christmas, there was no spike, And I think that's 109 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 4: the first sign that COVID is settling down. It's getting 110 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 4: to know us. We're getting to know it, and it's 111 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 4: adjusting to the environment and it may start to be 112 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 4: a little bit like the flew where it comes in 113 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 4: winter and goes away a little bit during the rest 114 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 4: of the year. Having said that, it's still not a 115 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 4: mild virus. It's a virus that can cause hospitalization. It 116 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 4: can cause premature defically in the elderly and can cause 117 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 4: problems in different organ systems in the body, and even 118 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 4: in children, although the children's infections is mild, much milder 119 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 4: than it's not like we're flu, which is a serious 120 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 4: infection in children. Potentially it's a mild infection in children, 121 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 4: but some children can get long COVID and symptoms going 122 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 4: on for some time, which is why, probably why I 123 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 4: start your GP about whether or not your child should immunize, 124 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 4: even though that's not part of the schedule. 125 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 2: I've got a five year old Asher. When Asher was two, 126 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 2: he had to go to hospital. He ended up with 127 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: quite a serious strep throat. Ash was born in COVID 128 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, and the doctor at the time said 129 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 2: that strep throat is becoming more and more common with 130 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: younger children since COVID. Now is that in regards to 131 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 2: strip show, but in a lot of other illnesses, is 132 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 2: that they are knock on effective COVID. 133 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 4: Well, what happened during COVID, Because you say COVID, I 134 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 4: say COVID. 135 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: It sounds much nice when you say so what happened. 136 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 4: During COVID is that we were all isolated. You know, 137 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 4: there are no flights coming in out of the country, 138 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 4: and the rate of viral infection and viral spread was 139 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 4: very very low. Kids were just not mixing with each other, 140 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,559 Speaker 4: and so the rate of influenza, the rate of viral 141 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 4: infections became very low. That opened up an opportunity for 142 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 4: other infections to come in. Strep being one of them, 143 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 4: and also strep and another one called michael plasma. They 144 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 4: also come in waves and we don't understand why. And 145 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 4: not long after COVID or during COVID, this unusual form 146 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 4: of pneumonia came in as well. So but it comes 147 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 4: every four or five years and was probably just coincidental. 148 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 4: But I think, you know, kids are going to get infected, 149 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 4: and if you're not getting infected with one thing, we 150 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 4: can get infected by another. And nobody's really got a 151 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 4: good explanation for it. But the vast majority you're talking 152 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 4: about now, when we're getting back to normal, a vast 153 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 4: majority of infections kids are getting viral. 154 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: That kind of leads us into what parents do with 155 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 2: their children. That sort of endless loop of coughs and 156 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: colds and running nose and a lot of that happens 157 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 2: at daycares and that type of thing. Is that just 158 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 2: a normal part of children growing up and a necessary 159 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: part of growing up. 160 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 4: Well, it's part of that. You've got to get exposed 161 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 4: to the environment. Childcare is a necessity. Vast majority of 162 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 4: couple's parents have to have to. Each got to have 163 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 4: a job and childcare. Unless you you're very lucky to 164 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 4: have endlessly patient grandparents, you really do have to use childcare. 165 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 4: And I think what happens with childcare is you get 166 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 4: this compression of exposure to viruses that might in the 167 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 4: old days have been you know, if for a child 168 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 4: had been out there playing with other kids, not going 169 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 4: to childcare that much, maybe playgroups and so on, those 170 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 4: infections would probably have started to emerge at four and 171 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 4: five years of age as they start to go to 172 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 4: KINDI and school. Now they've got this intense exposure in 173 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 4: the first two or three years, and it's quite a lot. 174 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 4: I mean, the interesting study from Denmark published last year, 175 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 4: not a huge study, but you know, these aren't easy 176 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 4: studies to do, but they followed six hundred and forty 177 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 4: kids from birth through to age ten and monitored their 178 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 4: infections in the first three years of life, so that 179 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 4: you know they diarized them. They also took those swamps 180 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 4: when they had a fever and an infection, and also 181 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 4: how serious the infection. Most where it was pneumonia, just 182 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 4: a coffin cold, and on average, in the first three years, 183 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 4: kids got sixteen infections, twelve of which would have been cold, 184 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 4: coughs and calls. The others might have been influenza, million infection, 185 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 4: maybe vacation chest infection. And most of those were actually 186 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 4: in the first two years, so the third year you 187 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 4: got off a bit lightly. So when you think about 188 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 4: sixteen infections over two years and your kids probably not 189 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 4: starting can the childcare until there are maybe twelve months away, 190 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 4: so it's compressed into a year, you know, So it's 191 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 4: like so it feels like constant. It is constant over 192 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 4: a year, two a month, so it's like one every 193 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 4: couple of weeks, and then you've got holidays, so this 194 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 4: is a lot. Now. In the past, pediatricians and gps 195 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 4: have been fairly relaxed about all this. They say, well, 196 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 4: it is part of normal growing up, but there is 197 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 4: and I don't want to spook people about this now 198 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 4: because I need to tell the whole story. Here so 199 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 4: that you don't get overly spooked by this, but there 200 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 4: is a relationship. So kids are going to get these 201 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 4: infections anyway, but there is a relationship between how many 202 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 4: you get and whether you're susceptible to infections like pneumonia 203 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 4: and needing antibiotics later on in childhood. And that's what 204 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 4: this study looked at in these when they followed them 205 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 4: through to ten years of age. So what was the 206 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 4: relationship between the infections in the first three years versus 207 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 4: how serious infections might be in the next ten years. 208 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 4: And what they found was that kids at the extreme end, 209 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 4: so this is not the sixteen infection kids. This is 210 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,719 Speaker 4: kids who got twenty seven infections, so you know, they 211 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 4: would have just been flattened the whole time. So that's 212 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 4: really unusual. This is a rare group of kids, but 213 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 4: you know, we've got a lot. Those kids, when they 214 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 4: were followed through were more likely to get more serious 215 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 4: infections in the first ten years of life, needing antibiotics, 216 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 4: pneumonia and things like that, and three times more likely 217 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 4: than the kids at the other end of the It 218 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 4: still wasn't a huge risk, maybe eight or ten percent 219 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 4: increased risks, so not every kid who got all these 220 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 4: infections was going to get something here, and they're also 221 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 4: more likely to develop asthma or exema later on. I 222 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 4: mean can come back to asthma and next because there's 223 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 4: a way of preventing that. But something was happening with 224 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 4: these kids immune system with the intensity of their infections. 225 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 4: What the study didn't say was how many of these 226 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 4: kids were a childcare but it was a Danish study, 227 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 4: so you'd have to assume that a lot of them 228 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 4: actually wear a childcare because they've got good exposure to 229 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 4: affordable childcare, which is why the Greenlanders don't want Donald 230 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 4: Trump to. 231 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 2: That's another story. At what point is a parent do 232 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 2: you think, Okay, well this might be something a little 233 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: more serious now. If we're getting into that sort of 234 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: one cold leads into another, into another, into another. 235 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 4: You've got to assess each episode in its own right. 236 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 4: If you're worried, you've got to go and see the 237 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 4: GP about it. And a lot of that's got to 238 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 4: do with fever and just you look at your own child. 239 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 4: And I trained in pediatrics, and the first thing that 240 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 4: we were taught is parents are always right. It's a 241 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 4: brave doctor who says they're there. Don't worry about it. 242 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 4: When the parent is worried. The parent knows the child. 243 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 4: You know your own child, and you're not being neurotic. 244 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 4: You're not being this sober anxious parent. If you know 245 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 4: the child's not right, you should get shipped up. You know, 246 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 4: if it's a cough and a little sniffle, they're not 247 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,719 Speaker 4: that sick. They're running around and they're eating and they're 248 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 4: not vomiting diarrhea. Well, you know, you've got to see 249 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 4: the GP and GB says it's a virus, and give 250 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 4: them some liquid pandle or liquid a gouper fend. But 251 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 4: you know, if a child's got a fever and you 252 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 4: measure the fever and it's high, and you know, I'm 253 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 4: reluctant to give a number, but you know, if it's 254 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 4: thirty eight, thirty eight five, certainly, if it's over thirty nine, 255 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 4: you want to get seen and seeing fairly quickly. And 256 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 4: the younger the child, you know, with fevers like that, 257 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 4: it's relatively urgent because it could be something else that's 258 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 4: more serious and you just want to get it checked up. 259 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 4: So fever is a sign that you need to get 260 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 4: checked up. And the higher the fever, the more urgent 261 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 4: it needs to get it checked up, just in case 262 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 4: something else is going on. And you know, I'll tell 263 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 4: a story against myself here which my daughter doesn't let 264 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 4: me forget about, which is she lives in Singapore and 265 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 4: her new born baby had a fever and it was 266 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 4: otherwise quite well. I wasn't there and I thought, you know, 267 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 4: it's fine feeding, you know, but it did have a fever, 268 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 4: and she ended up not believing me, as children have 269 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 4: every right to do with their parents. He took the 270 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 4: child through a pediatric center in Singapore who diagnosed a 271 00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 4: viral meningitis. So the baby was fine. But my daughter says, well, 272 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 4: that would be a good promo for your book, your author, 273 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 4: what's wrong with your kids can give grandchild right. So nonetheless, 274 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 4: what I'm saying here is that fever is important and 275 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 4: not to and if there's nothing else wrong with your child, 276 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 4: but they've got this high fever, that's even a stronger 277 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 4: reason to go in because you know, you've got to 278 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 4: get it sorted. 279 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: What about the idea of being exposed to germs to 280 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 2: build up immunity for child, you know, playing the dirt 281 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 2: lick the dirt is that actually a thing we hear 282 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 2: about that all the time, that you've got to build 283 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 2: up a child's immunity. 284 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's called a hygiene few and it's being modified 285 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 4: over the years. And yeah, your new system does need 286 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 4: to get trained. There's lots of things that train me 287 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 4: un system, and I do talk about this in the book. 288 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 4: One is your microbiome. So a babe's microbiome is really important. 289 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 4: That's why breast feeling is really important because rest the 290 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 4: populates the microbio. It's why ideally you want a vaginal 291 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 4: birth on a sesarean section, because the baby picks up 292 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 4: the microbio as they're born, and you'll pick it up eventually, 293 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 4: but it's slower if you've had a caesarean section. So again, 294 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 4: if you need a cesarean section, have it. But ideally, 295 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 4: if you can breastfeed afterwards, a really good idea. There's 296 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 4: always a good idea. Now, the story with a hygiene 297 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 4: theory is not so much about infection as allergies. 298 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 2: Okay. 299 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 4: One of the reasons that the human species is so 300 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 4: successful is that as we evolved into human beings, as 301 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 4: we were hunter gatherers, and in the walking through the countryside, 302 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 4: exposure to animals and so on. We were very exposed 303 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 4: to parasites, worms, things like that, hilaria, you know, other 304 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 4: organizisms like that, and so we've got a really finely 305 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 4: tuned immune system to deal with parasites. Now, what happens 306 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 4: when that part of your immune system is not trained 307 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 4: in early life to deal with parasites, which you don't 308 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 4: want it to be, because that's a very unhealthy situation 309 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 4: to be in. The Other thing that that part of 310 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 4: your immune system does is that's the part of the 311 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 4: immune system that is part of the allergic response. So 312 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 4: what's potentially happening in the first three or four or 313 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 4: five months of life is that the baby's immune system 314 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 4: is not getting properly trained to deal with allergens. And 315 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 4: pediatricians have partly created the peanut allergy problem, so it 316 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 4: does a heaven is that in order to perpetuate. So 317 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 4: they've been frightened to say to women it's okay to 318 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 4: start solids a little bit early, because they're frightened that 319 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 4: it actually might destroy breastfeeding. But it doesn't actually, And 320 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 4: what they show was that in countries in the world 321 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 4: where they introduced solids a little bit earlier, four or 322 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 4: five months or so, they had far less food alergy 323 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 4: than places like Australia where they introduced it at six months. 324 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 4: And also the way we introduced it in six months 325 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 4: was nervous or be very careful about peanuts, be very 326 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 4: careful about eggs and fish, give them tiny amounts and 327 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 4: just make sure. But if you want to make somebody 328 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 4: allergic to something, what you do is you give them 329 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 4: tiny amounts repeatedly, and that trains the immune system to 330 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 4: be allergic to that. You want to flood the zone, 331 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 4: to use a lot of trumpets, so you actually want 332 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 4: to expose your child to peanuts, to eggs, to fish 333 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 4: and so on, not huge amounts, but just slowly and 334 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 4: steadily from four or five months on somebody would say 335 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 4: six months, and that trains the immune system and makes 336 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 4: it far less likely that you will develop food allergy 337 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 4: later on. But then there's another thing that happens in 338 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 4: the first few ut and it's called the farmyard phenomenon. 339 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 4: If you look at rural Australians or kids that grow 340 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 4: up on farms, they've got a lower incidence of asthma, 341 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 4: hay fever, eggs AMA than kids that grow up in 342 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 4: the city, and it's exposure to animals. So again, in 343 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 4: the old days, when you're hunter gatherers, or even when 344 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 4: we settle down into huts, we had animals living with us. 345 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 4: That exposure to animal fur and animal substances trains our 346 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 4: immune system, and it trains it to be less sensitive 347 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 4: and less allergenic. So somebody, you don't get any asthma 348 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 4: or hay fever, it's just you far less likely to 349 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 4: develop it, or if you do, it's actually milder. Sorry, 350 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,479 Speaker 4: I'm taking so long to tell this story that it's 351 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 4: actually our really important part of the story. Let's tither 352 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 4: not here with infections is that kids who've had that 353 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 4: sort of exposure and that training. So it's not about dirt, 354 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 4: it's about animals. The more pets you've got better, the 355 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 4: more siblings you've got, the better. Smoking, by the way, 356 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 4: is toxic for child's immune system. You're less likely with 357 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 4: those infections for it to develop into asthma later on. 358 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 4: It's really important to train that immune system. 359 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 2: So interesting like growing up, but I don't remember having 360 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 2: any friends who had allergies, and now that it seems 361 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 2: to be way more commonplace. So has there been a 362 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 2: change in the way that did we used to introduce 363 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 2: solids earlier, or the way we introduced foods earlier to 364 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 2: our Has that something changed there? 365 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, we are exposing our children, to the young children 366 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 4: to highly processed foods. Let's take the twelve month old child. 367 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 4: You start solids, and you know, kids are playing with 368 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 4: the food, and you know, it's all over their fit 369 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 4: boberries are all over the face. 370 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 2: And so on. And I'm still a bit like that myself. 371 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 4: Mission by you know, twelve month old child the anything 372 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 4: and then twelve months to become fussy, things get thrown 373 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 4: off the high chair and they don't want to take it. 374 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 4: You've got to actually offer broccoli, say an average of 375 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 4: twenty times before a baby will actually, you know, actually 376 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 4: eat it. You're not a fight over it. But parents 377 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 4: get terrified that their child is becoming malnourished, and the 378 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 4: commercial food industry is exploiting that. So what happens in 379 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 4: the second six months of life is that you become 380 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 4: less and less dependent on milk, and you're slowly replacing that, 381 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 4: particularly twelve months with water. At twelve months, you should 382 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 4: be on a modified adult diet. You should be eating 383 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 4: what the rest of the family's eating, but it maybe 384 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 4: mushed up or however you want to do it, and 385 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 4: water rather than milk, and so maybe you have milk 386 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 4: just before bed or first thing in the morning. It's 387 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 4: up to you. But it's not a major part of 388 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 4: your child nutrition. But the food industry is fantastic at 389 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 4: exploiting parents anxiety. Oh the ring fussing. They're not eating mutual, 390 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 4: they'll only spaghetti, bolonaise or chips or what have you. Well, 391 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 4: that's always been the story, and we've survived quite well 392 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 4: three of us where you know, they market toddler milks. 393 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 4: They are sweetened, so they give the child a taste 394 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 4: for sweet. They are calorie concentrated, so the child could 395 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 4: you don't wait, they're not natural. They're an ultra processed food. 396 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 4: We have no idea what effect that's going to have 397 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 4: later on in life. These things have long term effects. 398 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 4: We already know, and we've heard of this epidemic of 399 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 4: bow cancer in thirty year olds and forty year olds. 400 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 4: We all know somebody who's had that. The scientific evidence 401 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 4: is but it's due to ultra processed foods. In the 402 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 4: first few years of life, wood changes the microbiome and 403 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 4: allows toxic bacteria to get into the gut, which then 404 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 4: produce carcinogenic substances. Then we have all these toddler foods 405 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 4: as well that you buy in the supermarket shelf, seventy 406 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 4: percent of which don't meet nutritional guidelines. The problem here 407 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 4: is we've both we've got two income families. We're busy, 408 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 4: we're exhausted when we get home, and you know, this 409 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 4: is yet another thing to feel guilty about. Buying tortel 410 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 4: milk and buying toddler foods well toald the milk, you 411 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 4: don't need to feel guilty about it. The child doesn't 412 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 4: need tord the milk. You can go to water. If 413 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 4: you're cooking for the family, the child gets a version 414 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 4: of what you get and ideally eats with you. And 415 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 4: if you want something quick, you really got to look 416 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 4: at the packet at the back and very good the 417 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 4: label says organic, but when you look at the back, 418 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 4: it's all chemicals. So you just got to be careful 419 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 4: what you buy. Some semi process toddler foods are fine, 420 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 4: but you just got to be careful or what you buy. 421 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 4: And so it's all connected with each other, and then 422 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 4: you start to get this behavioral issue. If you're starting 423 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 4: to get you know, you come all from work, you're 424 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 4: feeling bad. You haven't been with your kid all day, 425 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 4: your child all day. You want to do the best 426 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 4: buy them, and they're throwing food off the thing. And 427 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 4: if you then collude with that, you're not helping the 428 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 4: child because you'll get into a battle, and you'll get 429 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 4: into a battle over food. You never get into a 430 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 4: battle over food. Child eats what they want. You just 431 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 4: keep on presenting it to them, presenting what you want 432 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 4: them to eat, which is greens, what family's eating. They 433 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 4: throw off the thing, that's fine, but eventually they'll start eating. 434 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 2: With regards to meals, family meals together, finishing your child's meal, 435 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 2: or if you've using your fork and you've like to 436 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 2: taste to that and you stick your folk in the 437 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 2: child's mouth, is that a really unhealthy, bad thing to 438 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 2: do for yourself as a child. 439 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 4: It's not the sort of false thing with aeroplanes, you know, 440 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 4: this is you're just genuinely relaxing about food and enjoying it, 441 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 4: and every reason enjoying it. You want to try something 442 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 4: that's on my plane, it's not on yours, and so on. 443 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 4: They understand all that and it becomes an enjoyable part 444 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 4: of the day. But real times are really important because, 445 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 4: as I say, everything's connected, that's the one time that 446 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 4: you're together. And if you pull out your phone when 447 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 4: it pings and you're on your phone at dinner answering 448 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 4: what you think is an urgent text from work that 449 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 4: shows your child at the age of twelve months that 450 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 4: this is a legitimate thing to do. And there are 451 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 4: lots of good reasons to be worried about screens. You know, 452 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 4: get obsessed with social media in order children. But screen 453 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 4: use is a major issue, and so phones should be 454 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 4: and screens should be utterly banned. Television should be off. 455 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 4: At the table is a time to get together and 456 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 4: converse and be relaxed about food. And if the child's 457 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 4: not eating, we're not eating. You're all eating and having 458 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 4: a good time, and eventually that being will eat, they 459 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 4: will not starve themselves to death. 460 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be great to talk more about screens, 461 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 2: and that's in your book as well. We did get 462 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 2: through COVID. If we go back to COVID, screens became 463 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 2: a big part of a family, a household of life, 464 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 2: and it would be great to get an idea from you. 465 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 2: And you mentioned briefly about screens and negative effects, and 466 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 2: there must be positive effects as well of screen time 467 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 2: and screens. It just be great to hear your thoughts 468 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 2: on that. 469 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 4: So, as one expert said to me when I was 470 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 4: researching the book, he said, you don't really think that 471 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 4: if you were to give your child a bank iPad, 472 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 4: but it's going to destroy their brain, you know, sitting 473 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 4: with a blank iPad. It's what's on the screen, and 474 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 4: it's the context around it. And so you talked about 475 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 4: family time, So sitting around watching blue stuff that you've 476 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 4: curated is not going to destroy your child's brain. It's 477 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 4: a good thing. It's a family activity. It shouldn't substitute 478 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 4: for reading books. But you know, sitting down and watching 479 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 4: the television together and or you know you've got something 480 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 4: to do and you put something on, you know, and 481 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 4: they don't have the remote near them. By the way, 482 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 4: it's bluey, it's paw patrol. 483 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:51,959 Speaker 2: It's you let me know about that one. 484 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 4: So leaving them in front of poor patrol, or or 485 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 4: eating the Wiggles, I mean, I think there are some 486 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 4: problematic things with the Wiggles. Those tree ease and stuff, minosaur, 487 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 4: it's going to give to kids nightmares. But anyway, seriously, 488 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 4: when you've curated it and you know it's okay, it's 489 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 4: okay to leave in front of that, but it's not 490 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 4: a substitute for reading to them. The problem becomes when 491 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 4: it is how you use the screen, and if you 492 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 4: use the screen as a pacifier, particularly at tablet, that's 493 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 4: when you get into problems when you talk to and 494 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 4: I'm sure for your work on the Wiggles you've done this. 495 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 4: You talk to preschool teachers, and you talk to school teachers, 496 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 4: they will tell you they have not seen the confrontational 497 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 4: behavior that they see now that they've seen they never 498 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 4: saw it in the past. This is a new phenomenon. 499 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 4: And how do you explain that, Well, there are studies 500 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 4: that do relate that to screens, and it's about how 501 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 4: you use screens at home. Let me use the analogy 502 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 4: of grown ups. One of the reasons that some adults 503 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 4: misuse alcohol or tobacco or other drugs is that they've 504 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 4: got something else going on in their lives and they 505 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 4: think the solution to that is self medicating with a 506 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 4: cigarette or self medicating with a glass of wine or 507 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 4: self medicating within cannabis, and that is really toxic. You know, 508 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 4: it's very different from a glass of wine with dinner 509 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 4: at night. That's self medicating, and therefore you perpetuate that, 510 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 4: and that becomes an abnormal way of adapting. Every child 511 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,959 Speaker 4: has confrontational behavior, every child, you know, there's no perfect 512 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 4: child in the world. But if you respond by handing 513 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 4: them an iPad, almost irrespective of the content, you're using 514 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 4: that as a pacifier rather than as entertainment and enrichment 515 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 4: in nourish and studies have shown that if you time 516 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 4: how much time a child spends on an iPad at 517 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 4: the age of three, it predicts confrontational behavior at four, 518 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 4: which the confrontational behavior at four predicts more iPad use 519 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 4: at four, and then when they get to school, they 520 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 4: are really difficult to manage at school. So it's about 521 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 4: how you use it. It's not a pacifier. If a 522 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 4: child's got confrontational behavior, you've got to put everything aside 523 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 4: and deal with that and distraction, calmness, authoritative parenting, which 524 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 4: we can get to in a moment. I'm sure you 525 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 4: talked about it a million times on this podcast, and 526 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 4: if necessary, time out time out has been made falsely controversial. 527 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 4: It is not controversial. It works, but it's got to 528 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 4: work with a child is old enough to understand it 529 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 4: and you know how to. This is not the place 530 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 4: to teach people how to do time I've got a 531 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 4: section of it in the book. If you do it properly, 532 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 4: you don't have to be locked in the bedroom. It 533 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 4: could just be the corner of the lounge and they 534 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 4: know what's going on, and they also know where the 535 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 4: line is in the sand, and it's part of your boundaries. 536 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 4: But don't use the screen for pacification. 537 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 2: And that that is more the iPad, more so than 538 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 2: the television, because you say television you're curating your content 539 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 2: and you yeah. 540 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 4: I think, I think. I think also for television, you've 541 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 4: got to be careful because it's a reward. So the 542 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 4: child's been behaving badly and the screaming and yelling and 543 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 4: hitting the siblings, you don't reward them with blue. You know, 544 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 4: you've got to control that as an authoritative parent. You're 545 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 4: the parent, they're the child, and you've got to be firm. 546 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 4: You know you still love them, but you've got to 547 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 4: be firm. You don't get them. But this firm but 548 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 4: loving parenting is the core of good parenting, which means 549 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 4: that you have got to I describe this as a 550 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 4: game of tennis. Parenting is a game of tennis. They serve, 551 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 4: you return, they return you back back, and you can 552 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 4: do that from almost day one. You know you hold 553 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 4: up a baby. It's one of the great things about 554 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 4: doing pediatrics is you get to examine these newborn babies 555 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 4: and you can really surprise parents with how much interaction 556 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 4: you can get with a newborn baby that everybody else 557 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 4: thinks is a blaw. But you can get a newborn 558 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 4: baby to really respond and react to you, and it 559 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,719 Speaker 4: goes on. And this serve and return is really important 560 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 4: and remembory that you're the adult and how you return 561 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 4: is really important because that's how they So some kids 562 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 4: will serve a straight back and you can just go 563 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 4: and some kids will put a top spin on it 564 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 4: and you're running to the corner of the court and 565 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 4: then it comes back and then you know it's a 566 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 4: side spin and you're running backwards and forwards and you're 567 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 4: completely knackered because it's just the way the child is. 568 00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 4: But if you spin backwards and the return because of 569 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 4: problems in yourself and you're not necessarily well regulated. The 570 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 4: child will respond to that and come back to you 571 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 4: in a different way. There's a lot of parenting tuition 572 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 4: like PPP and service are really good at teaching you 573 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 4: how to actually calm that emotion down because if they 574 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 4: see you, for example, at the table coming back to 575 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 4: the dinner table, somebody drops something, your partner drops something, 576 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 4: and you go ballistic at that, which is an insignificant episode. 577 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 4: The child learns that you go ballistic and insignificant things 578 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 4: that happen, so they watch. And that's the other thing 579 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 4: that I always say is they're always watching you. They 580 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 4: watch you because they love you. You're their careers, and they 581 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 4: imitate your behavior. It might not be obvious that they're 582 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 4: doing that, but that's what they do. Now, if you've 583 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 4: got a difficult child, that's not necessarily because you are 584 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 4: difficult yourself, but how you return serf is really important. 585 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 4: So if they're uptight and you're uptight, this is just 586 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 4: going to escalate out of control. If they're uptight and 587 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 4: you're calm in your returns of serve, it forces them 588 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 4: to actually deal with the ball that's moving more slowly 589 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 4: that they don't have to do a slam to the 590 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 4: back of the court, and you can actually and sometimes 591 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 4: it just doesn't work, which is why you need things 592 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 4: like time out. But that return understanding yourself. So if 593 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 4: you've got high levels of anxiety yourself or you are 594 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 4: moother's low and you're feeling depressed, very hard to be 595 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 4: a good parent. Got to sort yourself out, see your GP. 596 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,240 Speaker 4: Get that sort of out because you'll be a better 597 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 4: parent for it. But there are so many demands on parents. 598 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 4: This is the heart. I think this is the hardest 599 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 4: time in human history to be a good parent. 600 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 2: It's just so much Look as a parent, Look, I 601 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,399 Speaker 2: agree with you. Well, there's also so much information now 602 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 2: and so much to kind of We all want to 603 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 2: be the best parents we can possibly be to our children, 604 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 2: and we get a lot of information from a lot 605 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 2: of different places now. And I feel like, I mean, 606 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 2: what you're saying just now with the anxiety of parents, 607 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 2: does that if we're feeling that, then does that then 608 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 2: lead into the anxiety for our children? Because you do 609 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 2: hear that there's an increase of children at quite young 610 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 2: ages dealing with stress and anxiety and being quite anxious. 611 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 4: I don't want to put another thing on parents when 612 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 4: they're already beating themselves up. There is a little bit 613 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 4: of evidence that if you have anxiety yourself, your child 614 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 4: is more likely to be anxious when they grow up. 615 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 4: And that's probably picking up on some of that stuff, 616 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 4: which is why don't sit on it. If you're an 617 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 4: anxious person, don't sit on it. Get a referral to 618 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 4: a clinical psychologists as good at coldly behavioral therapy, and 619 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 4: they will teach you routines to help damp and down 620 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 4: that anxiety. And if it's an extream end, maybe you 621 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 4: do need a small dose of a medication, just not 622 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 4: not a benzodizer, not a valid like drug. Then there 623 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 4: are drugs which are quite good at reducing anxiety. It's 624 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 4: not the first thing that you'd reach for, but you 625 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 4: do not want that in yourself. You do not want 626 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 4: a low move, so you do try to actually fix 627 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 4: that up in yourself so that you can be that 628 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 4: kind of parent. There are plenty of other things going 629 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 4: on which increase anxiety in children. So, for example, you 630 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 4: talk about wanting is to be the perfect parent. Your 631 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 4: child comes home or comes in from the garden, if 632 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 4: you're allowing your child into the garden you should be 633 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 4: and it comes in screaming something's happened, or we've had 634 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 4: an argument with the little kid next door. And you 635 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 4: come back and your kids screaming and blah blah blah. 636 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 4: The busy parent day doesn't want their loved child to 637 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 4: be screaming. It doesn't want they don't You don't want 638 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 4: them to be upset, and the immediate temptation is to 639 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 4: solve their problem for them. I'm going to fix this up. 640 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 4: I don't want to hear this. It's distressing me too much. 641 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 4: I just want to sort it out. What's going on? 642 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 4: What's going on? And you come to some conclusions and 643 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 4: you sort it all out, and what happens with that 644 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 4: problem solving behavior? As a parent, you're taking control away 645 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,240 Speaker 4: from the child. You're not teaching the child to solve 646 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 4: problems rather than saying, oh, tell me what happened, and 647 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 4: then what did you do? I mean, obviously this is 648 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 4: presumes you've got a child who is old enough to 649 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 4: and cognitively abable enough to do that. But right about 650 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 4: three four years old, you can start to have that 651 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 4: conversation and what did you do? 652 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 2: You did? What you know? 653 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 4: With that sensible and so on, will you go out 654 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 4: and what do you think you should do? And they 655 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 4: don't know. Well, maybe it's actually apologized to Jimmy outside 656 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 4: that you've done that. You've got to go and do that, 657 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 4: and stars as if that's problem solving. But the next 658 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 4: time it happened, he said, can you remember the last 659 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 4: time I did that? What happened? Blah blah blah. And 660 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 4: the child learns to solve problems. So one source of anxiety, 661 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 4: and this comes from being busy parents. You want to 662 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 4: do best buy them. No parent wants to feel. Every 663 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 4: parent loves their child, but there's a bit about loving 664 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,280 Speaker 4: them too much to solve these problems. So the child 665 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,240 Speaker 4: gets to eight or nine, they've not learned social problem solving. 666 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,879 Speaker 4: So they get into a situation and they haven't got 667 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 4: an idea, have got a clue what to do. That 668 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:36,399 Speaker 4: makes them anxious, socially anxious because they haven't had that 669 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 4: learning experience when we were growing up or our parents. Obviously, 670 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,240 Speaker 4: what you did last time your golfen sorted out yourself 671 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 4: and your tough love that wasn't being cruel. Nothing to 672 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 4: do with spanking is all to do with it takes 673 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 4: an extra two or three minutes. But you're equipping your 674 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 4: child for that. So what predicts a child's successful entry 675 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 4: into school. It's not that they were reading Shakespeare at 676 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 4: the age of four and a half. It's not that 677 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 4: they're solving algebra equations at the age of four and 678 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 4: three quarters. That doesn't predict good school entry. What predicts 679 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 4: good school entry is emotional control. A child who's a 680 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 4: good communicator, a good problem solver, and can communicate their 681 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 4: needs quietly and calmly. That child does really well at 682 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 4: school and achieves their potential. The child that comes in 683 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 4: where they haven't got a clue, they're all over the 684 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 4: place and they're emotionally labile. It's very hard to teach 685 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,720 Speaker 4: that child, and they take a much longer transition into school. 686 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 4: It all goes together. 687 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, what's interesting you talk about schools because lucky our 688 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 2: children are both about to go to school. I think 689 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 2: they're all coming up. Your book goes from a zero 690 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 2: to ten. School starts generally around five, and like you've 691 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 2: noted in the book, around the age of five, all 692 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 2: the literature, everything just sort of drops off by the 693 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 2: wayside and. 694 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 4: Available for parents of children five to ten, and it 695 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 4: was middle year, and people used to think those are 696 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 4: the salad years where nothing happens. Just you're not the 697 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 4: salad years. We're the runway to adolescents and the rest 698 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 4: of your life. It's important you understand those years and 699 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 4: really under research. That's the main reason I wrote the book. 700 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,799 Speaker 4: Probably early years, but five to ten year group is 701 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:34,919 Speaker 4: really important. 702 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is fascinating because you always think about the 703 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 2: zero to three, those developmental years in that age and 704 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 2: then but you're right, but get five off to school, 705 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 2: off you go. You're on your own and as parents too. 706 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 2: So it's great to have this resource here that because 707 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 2: it is that means you know, there's a lot of 708 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 2: information and it's a big book, but you can just 709 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 2: flick through at whatever time you're out to find a 710 00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 2: moment that is that you're going through. Right now. I 711 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 2: could listen to your talk all day and you've got 712 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 2: so much wonderful information to talk about. And so we 713 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 2: covered a little bit of probably a lot of what 714 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 2: we had written down, but there is so much to 715 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 2: talk about. But it's such a privilege for us for 716 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:15,720 Speaker 2: you to come on to Wiggle Talk. 717 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 4: The privilege is mine. I mean, my kids grew up 718 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 4: at the wheels, you know. And I was at one 719 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,800 Speaker 4: in your concerts recently, as I told you before we started, 720 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 4: and you know, and just watching these families, you know, 721 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 4: it almost brought a tear to my eye, just these 722 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 4: families coming together and joining the same cultural experience, the 723 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,399 Speaker 4: same symbolism, the same you're modeling, the behaviors that you're 724 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 4: looking for. I mean, it's just you. You You've done 725 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 4: a lot. And I congratulate you. 726 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 2: No, thank you, well, thank you for coming on. We 727 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 2: will talk pleasure lucky. I could. I could listen to 728 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 2: doctor Norman Swan talk all day. I meant, first, he 729 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 2: has a beautiful Scottish yes voice, and he always has 730 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 2: so many incredible, wonderful things to say. And I do 731 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 2: listen to him all the time on ABC Radio, which 732 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,439 Speaker 2: is why we wanted to get him on Wiggle Talk 733 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 2: because he is so well informed about all things to 734 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 2: do with health, not just children. But there, it were 735 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 2: so great to talk to him. 736 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 3: It was I like that analogy at the end with 737 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 3: the well. 738 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 2: You love your tennis, that's. 739 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 3: Going to mention the Australian open budget. It's exciting times now. 740 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,920 Speaker 3: I like the five to ten year olds being on 741 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 3: the runway, and we're about We're very much on the runway. 742 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 3: We're sitting in our seats, and yes, we are about 743 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,720 Speaker 3: to take off the world of school. 744 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,799 Speaker 2: And you know, we have talked about this a lot 745 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 2: on the show with regards to parents needing to look 746 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 2: after themselves, and he touched on that with regards to 747 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 2: the anxiety and it is really important for us as 748 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 2: parents and as individuals to go and look after our 749 00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 2: own health and if we are finding ourselves little tricky 750 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 2: to deal with or we're struggling a little bit, that 751 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,560 Speaker 2: it's okay to go and ask for some help somewhere 752 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 2: because that is going to be better for you, which 753 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 2: then is better for your children, for your family, for 754 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 2: your partner, for whatever circumstance you're in. And I think 755 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 2: that's just a really important thing that he spoke about. 756 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, so thank you, doctor Norman. We hope you enjoyed 757 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 3: listening today. If you'd like to hear more from DoD 758 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 3: Norman Swan, you can find him on ABC Radio Nationals, 759 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 3: The Health Report, and plenty of other ABC Health segments. 760 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 3: He's also written a book which we showed and that 761 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 3: is called So you want to Know What's good for 762 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 3: your kids. We'll link it in the show notes. If 763 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:35,760 Speaker 3: you want to go deeper and read the book. 764 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a great book. I've read lots of 765 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 2: it and flicked through it a lot, and as we 766 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:44,400 Speaker 2: said in the chat, you find the chapter that is 767 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 2: necessary for you at that time. It is a big book, 768 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 2: so that can be daunting a time, but you don't 769 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 2: need to be sitting down reading the whole thing. But 770 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 2: thanks for listening to will Talk. You know what, Loggie, 771 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,719 Speaker 2: it's a podcast for parents. It is see you next 772 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 2: time time. We said that together. Jinks h