WEBVTT - What's behind Indonesia's deadly protests?

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday,

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<v Speaker 2>the fourth of September. I'm Lucy Tassel, I'm Emma Gillespie.

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<v Speaker 2>Anti government protests in Indonesia have turned violent after police

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<v Speaker 2>killed a twenty one year old delivery driver. The protests

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<v Speaker 2>began in the capital city of Jakarta, sparked by outrage

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<v Speaker 2>over politicians pay. They have now spread across the country,

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<v Speaker 2>resulting in at least seven deaths and more than twelve

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<v Speaker 2>hundred arrests. In today's podcast, will explain what sparked these

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<v Speaker 2>protests and what the Indonesian government plans to do next.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll get into that right after a quick message from

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<v Speaker 1>today's sponsor Lucy. We're talking about these protests in Indonesia today.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like I started to see this story on

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<v Speaker 1>social media about a week ago, and then within a

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<v Speaker 1>few days it had really escalated. Yeah, what started all

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<v Speaker 1>of this?

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<v Speaker 2>So this all began about two weeks ago when Indonesian

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<v Speaker 2>media reported that federal politicians in Indonesia had been getting

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<v Speaker 2>a monthly housing allowance from the federal government. Okay, and

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<v Speaker 2>the government's rationale for this allowance is that in this

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<v Speaker 2>term of parliament which began last year. People long term

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<v Speaker 2>listeners to this podcast will remember how much we talked

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<v Speaker 2>about how many different countries were having huge elections in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four. Indonesia was one of them. And so

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<v Speaker 2>from the beginning of this term that began last year,

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<v Speaker 2>the government isn't providing housing for MPs as it has

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<v Speaker 2>done in the past. So they're not saying, like, right,

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<v Speaker 2>here's a place where you can leave if you've been

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<v Speaker 2>elected to parliament.

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<v Speaker 1>So previously elected officials got.

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<v Speaker 2>A house, yeah, or an apartment or something like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Their argument was we're not giving people a place to

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<v Speaker 2>live this time, we're paying for them to find their

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<v Speaker 2>own home in the capital city of Jakata.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So is this common practice? Is it usual for

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<v Speaker 1>governments in Indonesia or around the world anywhere to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of provide accommodation for MPs or provide financial means to

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<v Speaker 1>pay for their accommodation.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd say it's fairly common. I can tell you about

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<v Speaker 2>what happens in Australia. In Australia, MPs can claim an

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<v Speaker 2>allowance for the nights that they stay in Canberra. Each year,

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<v Speaker 2>they get that allowance and then they can choose how

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<v Speaker 2>they spend it. I think they sort of claim it

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<v Speaker 2>at the end of the year.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Some MPs choose to rent. Some might own properties in Canberra,

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<v Speaker 2>although I would say that tends to be more people

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<v Speaker 2>who've been in parliament a really long time and don't

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<v Speaker 2>anticipate that that will change anytime soon. So that's people

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<v Speaker 2>like Labor MP Tinya Plebasek who from her declaration of

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<v Speaker 2>interests in the parliamentary system, which all MPs have to do,

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<v Speaker 2>we know that she owns a residential property in Canberra.

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<v Speaker 2>It's understandable. She's been in parliament since nineteen ninety eight

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<v Speaker 2>and she has an incredibly safe Labor seat in Sydney. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a similar system in New Zealand, and just for

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<v Speaker 2>something closer to Indonesia, in Malaysia, MPs can use either

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<v Speaker 2>government provided housing or the allowance system.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So Indonesia moving to this system brings it in line

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<v Speaker 2>with other governments in the Australasian Oceania region. But that

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<v Speaker 2>is not really what sparked the protests, okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So then the protests become about the issue of how

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<v Speaker 1>much the Indonesian MPs are getting for this allowance. How

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<v Speaker 1>significant is it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say a lot of numbers in the

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<v Speaker 2>next a few minutes. I just want everyone to stay

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<v Speaker 2>with me. I promise I'll get you through.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for fagging if I can.

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<v Speaker 2>Understand this maths, I promise anyone can. So there are

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<v Speaker 2>five hundred and eighty members of Indonesia's Lower House, the

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<v Speaker 2>House of Representatives. They are being paid each as much

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<v Speaker 2>as fifty million Indonesian rupir for housing expenses every month.

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<v Speaker 2>For context, that's around forty seven hundred Australian dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so hang on, just recap. MPs in Indonesia are

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<v Speaker 1>getting about four and a half grand Ausie dollars per

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<v Speaker 1>month for their living expenses, housing expenses, for.

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<v Speaker 2>Their housing expenses. Yes, now, I mentioned a second ago

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<v Speaker 2>that Australian MPs can claim an allowance for how long

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<v Speaker 2>they're staying in Canberra for official business. Australian MPs can

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<v Speaker 2>claim about three hundred and twenty dollars a night for

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<v Speaker 2>each night that they stay in Canberra. This year, the

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<v Speaker 2>Australian Lower House, the House of Representatives, is meant to

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<v Speaker 2>sit for around forty days. That works out to be

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<v Speaker 2>about twelve seven hundred Australian dollars that MPs can claim

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<v Speaker 2>in housing expenses, assuming they stay forty nights for the

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<v Speaker 2>forty days, so each of those nights being around three

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and twenty dollars. Maybe they claim a couple on

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<v Speaker 2>either side of sitting weeks. That is a far cry

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<v Speaker 2>from a monthly allowance of four and a half grand,

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<v Speaker 2>which over the course of a whole year works out

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<v Speaker 2>to be about fifty six thousand dollars Australian dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's an allowance kind of assuming or permitting MPs

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<v Speaker 1>in Indonesia to stay in Jakarta full time, whereas the

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<v Speaker 1>Aussie allowance system is set up to pay for politicians

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<v Speaker 1>to be in Canbra during sitting periods. So three hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and eighteen dollars a night being that allowance. If Polly's

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<v Speaker 1>were in Canbra full time, I'm sure that would amount

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<v Speaker 1>to thousands and thousands of dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. I'll also mention that this housing allowance makes up

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<v Speaker 2>about half of the total remuneration for Indonesian MPs okay

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<v Speaker 2>Ossie MPs. This is on top of what they already

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<v Speaker 2>get paid, which can range from two hundred grand to

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<v Speaker 2>closer to six hundred grand depending on their level of seniority. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so a lot of numbers there. The crucial thing, though,

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<v Speaker 2>the crucial number that you really need to know, is

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<v Speaker 2>that the thing that incited the initial protests is that

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<v Speaker 2>the monthly housing allowance is ten times the monthly minimum

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<v Speaker 2>wage in the city of k Yeah. That's Indonesia's capital,

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<v Speaker 2>where the parliament sits. So that is what has kind

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<v Speaker 2>of sparked these protests, is this idea that just to

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<v Speaker 2>be in the city, the five hundred and eighty MPs

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<v Speaker 2>are getting paid ten times the monthly minimum wage for

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<v Speaker 2>everyone else in the city.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think that's a really important figure because when

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<v Speaker 1>you hear that total Indonesian MP's salary sits at around

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred thousand Aussie dollars, that may sound like a lot,

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<v Speaker 1>but considering Ossie MPs are paid more like two hundred

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<v Speaker 1>grand at a minimum. I also think it's important to

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<v Speaker 1>flag the cost of living is different in Indonesia.

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<v Speaker 2>Yea.

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<v Speaker 1>It is a in many respects developing country. So what

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<v Speaker 1>might sound like maybe to some Australians like a not

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<v Speaker 1>extremely impressive salary. Obviously, we know that it is ten

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<v Speaker 1>times the monthly minimum wage in Jakarta.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, Lucy.

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<v Speaker 1>I understand now where these protests have come from, but

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<v Speaker 1>what do we know about the initial action? Where did

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<v Speaker 1>it start and how did things escalate.

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<v Speaker 2>We know that it's centered in Jakarta around the Parliament building.

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<v Speaker 2>We know that student groups were involved, and we know

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<v Speaker 2>that police were firing tear gas at crowds and crowds

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<v Speaker 2>were throwing rocks and bottles at police. There's differing reports

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<v Speaker 2>as to who incited that kind of exchange. Yep. We

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<v Speaker 2>also know that several politicians' homes were looted and attacked

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<v Speaker 2>in Jakarta. Again, like, I mean, that would be this

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<v Speaker 2>kind of site that you would go to if you

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<v Speaker 2>were protesting against the housing allowance, right, you'd go to

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<v Speaker 2>the home that's being paid for out of the taxpayer dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't understand that logic. I should also note that

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<v Speaker 2>the housing allowance announcement came soon after the Indonesian government

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<v Speaker 2>handed down its budget, which included some funding cuts, right,

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<v Speaker 2>so the Finance minister's home could also be like it

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<v Speaker 2>explains why that was a target.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so we can assume that there is this public

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<v Speaker 1>outrage over the housing allowance, also at a sensitive time

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<v Speaker 1>around budget cuts and you know, shifting priorities in the

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<v Speaker 1>government's spending.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. So again, these first few days of protests that

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<v Speaker 2>contained to the capital city, but that changed when police

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<v Speaker 2>killed a delivery driver near the protests.

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<v Speaker 1>That Lucy strikes me as quite an escalation. Yeah, what happened?

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<v Speaker 2>So last Thursday, a twenty one year old motorbike delivery

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<v Speaker 2>driver named Afan konia I was near the site of

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<v Speaker 2>a protest when he was run over by an armored

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<v Speaker 2>police vehicle.

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<v Speaker 1>Was he involved in the protest at this point, It's

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<v Speaker 1>not believed that he was involved at the protests, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so he just happened to be passing by on a motorbike.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. The incident then, kind of it made the protest

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<v Speaker 2>explode basically across the whole country, and it also led

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<v Speaker 2>to protests being against the presence of the military and

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<v Speaker 2>police behavior in day to day life in Indonesia.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>This also was kind of a flashpoint because Indonesia has

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<v Speaker 2>very high rates of informal employment, that's according to the

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<v Speaker 2>World Bank and forms of informal employment we know include

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<v Speaker 2>things like being a delivery driver, so that made this

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<v Speaker 2>particularly relevant to protesters. Yeah, and following this, these protests

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<v Speaker 2>turned violent. There have been several deaths, including three people

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<v Speaker 2>who were killed when a city council building was set alight.

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<v Speaker 2>Hundreds of people had been injured, and more than twelve

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<v Speaker 2>hundred people have been arrested.

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<v Speaker 1>So what started as a protest about this housing allowance

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<v Speaker 1>scheme has kind of evolved into a much bigger picture

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<v Speaker 1>protest movement about military powers, law enforcement, police presence, and

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<v Speaker 1>broader kind of government policy in Indonesia.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that right, Yes, and all these kind of interconnected issues, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously we know that the police are kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>manifestation of the government that exists in the community. They

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<v Speaker 2>enforced laws, and so if you're angry at police, you're

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<v Speaker 2>also kind of angry at the government. And people were

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<v Speaker 2>already angry at the government, So it's kind of this

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<v Speaker 2>perfect storm of issues. An interesting point that I'll raise

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<v Speaker 2>that came up in my research of this topic was

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<v Speaker 2>from researchers at the University of Melbourne who have suggested

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<v Speaker 2>that while the protests are very much real and organic,

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<v Speaker 2>some of the violence that's resulted was manufactured. That's their

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<v Speaker 2>suggestion by wealthy Indonesians loyal to the former president, Joko Widodo,

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<v Speaker 2>who are trying to undermine the new president who was

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<v Speaker 2>elected last year, Proboo Subianto. So that's their allegation.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So on top of all of this, there is

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<v Speaker 1>this alleged conspiracy, a political conspiracy essentially. How has the

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<v Speaker 1>new president responded to these protests.

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<v Speaker 2>He canceled a planned trip to China. He was going

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<v Speaker 2>to go to this military parade in China marking the

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<v Speaker 2>end of World War Two. He's also met with the

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<v Speaker 2>family of the delivery driver who police killed, and he's

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<v Speaker 2>called for a full investigation into the incident. And the

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<v Speaker 2>latest update is that on Monday he said he would

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<v Speaker 2>scrap the housing allowance that sparked all of this.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, yes, so that's gone.

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<v Speaker 2>That's gone now. The protests have also cooled off. But

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<v Speaker 2>as we know, this is such a complex issue, something

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<v Speaker 2>else could trigger more action. We're just going to have

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<v Speaker 2>to keep tabs on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I suppose it's one thing for the housing allowance

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<v Speaker 1>to be resolved in a sense, but clearly there is

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<v Speaker 1>unrest and disappointment amongst Indonesians about how a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>aspects to day to day governing are being handled. Yeah, totally, Lucy,

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for explaining that to us. A

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<v Speaker 1>very complicated one, but we appreciate you taking us through it.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks Emma, and thank you for listening to today's episode.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll be back a little later on with your evening

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<v Speaker 1>news headlines, but until then, have a great day.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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<v Speaker 2>Banjelung Kalkudin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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<v Speaker 2>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest

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<v Speaker 2>Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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<v Speaker 2>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.