1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday, 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: the fourth of September. I'm Lucy Tassel, I'm Emma Gillespie. 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: Anti government protests in Indonesia have turned violent after police 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 2: killed a twenty one year old delivery driver. The protests 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 2: began in the capital city of Jakarta, sparked by outrage 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 2: over politicians pay. They have now spread across the country, 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 2: resulting in at least seven deaths and more than twelve 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: hundred arrests. In today's podcast, will explain what sparked these 11 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: protests and what the Indonesian government plans to do next. 12 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: We'll get into that right after a quick message from 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: today's sponsor Lucy. We're talking about these protests in Indonesia today. 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,639 Speaker 1: I feel like I started to see this story on 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: social media about a week ago, and then within a 16 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: few days it had really escalated. Yeah, what started all 17 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: of this? 18 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 2: So this all began about two weeks ago when Indonesian 19 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,919 Speaker 2: media reported that federal politicians in Indonesia had been getting 20 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 2: a monthly housing allowance from the federal government. Okay, and 21 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: the government's rationale for this allowance is that in this 22 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 2: term of parliament which began last year. People long term 23 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 2: listeners to this podcast will remember how much we talked 24 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: about how many different countries were having huge elections in 25 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Indonesia was one of them. And so 26 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 2: from the beginning of this term that began last year, 27 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: the government isn't providing housing for MPs as it has 28 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: done in the past. So they're not saying, like, right, 29 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: here's a place where you can leave if you've been 30 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: elected to parliament. 31 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: So previously elected officials got. 32 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: A house, yeah, or an apartment or something like that. 33 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: Their argument was we're not giving people a place to 34 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: live this time, we're paying for them to find their 35 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: own home in the capital city of Jakata. 36 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: Okay, So is this common practice? Is it usual for 37 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: governments in Indonesia or around the world anywhere to kind 38 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: of provide accommodation for MPs or provide financial means to 39 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 1: pay for their accommodation. 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: I'd say it's fairly common. I can tell you about 41 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: what happens in Australia. In Australia, MPs can claim an 42 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 2: allowance for the nights that they stay in Canberra. Each year, 43 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: they get that allowance and then they can choose how 44 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: they spend it. I think they sort of claim it 45 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: at the end of the year. 46 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: Okay. 47 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: Some MPs choose to rent. Some might own properties in Canberra, 48 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: although I would say that tends to be more people 49 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 2: who've been in parliament a really long time and don't 50 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: anticipate that that will change anytime soon. So that's people 51 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 2: like Labor MP Tinya Plebasek who from her declaration of 52 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: interests in the parliamentary system, which all MPs have to do, 53 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: we know that she owns a residential property in Canberra. 54 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 2: It's understandable. She's been in parliament since nineteen ninety eight 55 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 2: and she has an incredibly safe Labor seat in Sydney. Yeah, 56 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 2: there's a similar system in New Zealand, and just for 57 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: something closer to Indonesia, in Malaysia, MPs can use either 58 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: government provided housing or the allowance system. 59 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: Okay. 60 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 2: So Indonesia moving to this system brings it in line 61 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 2: with other governments in the Australasian Oceania region. But that 62 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 2: is not really what sparked the protests, okay. 63 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: So then the protests become about the issue of how 64 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: much the Indonesian MPs are getting for this allowance. How 65 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: significant is it. 66 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to say a lot of numbers in the 67 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: next a few minutes. I just want everyone to stay 68 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: with me. I promise I'll get you through. 69 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: Thank you for fagging if I can. 70 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: Understand this maths, I promise anyone can. So there are 71 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: five hundred and eighty members of Indonesia's Lower House, the 72 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: House of Representatives. They are being paid each as much 73 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: as fifty million Indonesian rupir for housing expenses every month. 74 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 2: For context, that's around forty seven hundred Australian dollars. 75 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so hang on, just recap. MPs in Indonesia are 76 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: getting about four and a half grand Ausie dollars per 77 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: month for their living expenses, housing expenses, for. 78 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: Their housing expenses. Yes, now, I mentioned a second ago 79 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 2: that Australian MPs can claim an allowance for how long 80 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: they're staying in Canberra for official business. Australian MPs can 81 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: claim about three hundred and twenty dollars a night for 82 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 2: each night that they stay in Canberra. This year, the 83 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: Australian Lower House, the House of Representatives, is meant to 84 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: sit for around forty days. That works out to be 85 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: about twelve seven hundred Australian dollars that MPs can claim 86 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: in housing expenses, assuming they stay forty nights for the 87 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: forty days, so each of those nights being around three 88 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty dollars. Maybe they claim a couple on 89 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 2: either side of sitting weeks. That is a far cry 90 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: from a monthly allowance of four and a half grand, 91 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: which over the course of a whole year works out 92 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: to be about fifty six thousand dollars Australian dollars. 93 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: But that's an allowance kind of assuming or permitting MPs 94 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: in Indonesia to stay in Jakarta full time, whereas the 95 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: Aussie allowance system is set up to pay for politicians 96 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: to be in Canbra during sitting periods. So three hundred 97 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: and eighteen dollars a night being that allowance. If Polly's 98 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: were in Canbra full time, I'm sure that would amount 99 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: to thousands and thousands of dollars. 100 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: Yes. I'll also mention that this housing allowance makes up 101 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 2: about half of the total remuneration for Indonesian MPs okay 102 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: Ossie MPs. This is on top of what they already 103 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 2: get paid, which can range from two hundred grand to 104 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: closer to six hundred grand depending on their level of seniority. Yeah, 105 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: so a lot of numbers there. The crucial thing, though, 106 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 2: the crucial number that you really need to know, is 107 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 2: that the thing that incited the initial protests is that 108 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 2: the monthly housing allowance is ten times the monthly minimum 109 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: wage in the city of k Yeah. That's Indonesia's capital, 110 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: where the parliament sits. So that is what has kind 111 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: of sparked these protests, is this idea that just to 112 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,679 Speaker 2: be in the city, the five hundred and eighty MPs 113 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: are getting paid ten times the monthly minimum wage for 114 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 2: everyone else in the city. 115 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a really important figure because when 116 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: you hear that total Indonesian MP's salary sits at around 117 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand Aussie dollars, that may sound like a lot, 118 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: but considering Ossie MPs are paid more like two hundred 119 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: grand at a minimum. I also think it's important to 120 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: flag the cost of living is different in Indonesia. 121 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: Yea. 122 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: It is a in many respects developing country. So what 123 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: might sound like maybe to some Australians like a not 124 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,679 Speaker 1: extremely impressive salary. Obviously, we know that it is ten 125 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: times the monthly minimum wage in Jakarta. 126 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Lucy. 127 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: I understand now where these protests have come from, but 128 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: what do we know about the initial action? Where did 129 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: it start and how did things escalate. 130 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: We know that it's centered in Jakarta around the Parliament building. 131 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: We know that student groups were involved, and we know 132 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 2: that police were firing tear gas at crowds and crowds 133 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 2: were throwing rocks and bottles at police. There's differing reports 134 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: as to who incited that kind of exchange. Yep. We 135 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: also know that several politicians' homes were looted and attacked 136 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: in Jakarta. Again, like, I mean, that would be this 137 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: kind of site that you would go to if you 138 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: were protesting against the housing allowance, right, you'd go to 139 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 2: the home that's being paid for out of the taxpayer dollars. 140 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 2: You can't understand that logic. I should also note that 141 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 2: the housing allowance announcement came soon after the Indonesian government 142 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: handed down its budget, which included some funding cuts, right, 143 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: so the Finance minister's home could also be like it 144 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: explains why that was a target. 145 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: Okay, so we can assume that there is this public 146 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: outrage over the housing allowance, also at a sensitive time 147 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: around budget cuts and you know, shifting priorities in the 148 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: government's spending. 149 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: Yes. So again, these first few days of protests that 150 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 2: contained to the capital city, but that changed when police 151 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: killed a delivery driver near the protests. 152 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: That Lucy strikes me as quite an escalation. Yeah, what happened? 153 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: So last Thursday, a twenty one year old motorbike delivery 154 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 2: driver named Afan konia I was near the site of 155 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 2: a protest when he was run over by an armored 156 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 2: police vehicle. 157 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: Was he involved in the protest at this point, It's 158 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: not believed that he was involved at the protests, Okay, 159 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: so he just happened to be passing by on a motorbike. 160 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 2: Yes. The incident then, kind of it made the protest 161 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 2: explode basically across the whole country, and it also led 162 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: to protests being against the presence of the military and 163 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: police behavior in day to day life in Indonesia. 164 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: Right. 165 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 2: This also was kind of a flashpoint because Indonesia has 166 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 2: very high rates of informal employment, that's according to the 167 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: World Bank and forms of informal employment we know include 168 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 2: things like being a delivery driver, so that made this 169 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 2: particularly relevant to protesters. Yeah, and following this, these protests 170 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: turned violent. There have been several deaths, including three people 171 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: who were killed when a city council building was set alight. 172 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 2: Hundreds of people had been injured, and more than twelve 173 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 2: hundred people have been arrested. 174 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:37,599 Speaker 1: So what started as a protest about this housing allowance 175 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: scheme has kind of evolved into a much bigger picture 176 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: protest movement about military powers, law enforcement, police presence, and 177 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,359 Speaker 1: broader kind of government policy in Indonesia. 178 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: Is that right, Yes, and all these kind of interconnected issues, Like, 179 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 2: obviously we know that the police are kind of a 180 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 2: manifestation of the government that exists in the community. They 181 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 2: enforced laws, and so if you're angry at police, you're 182 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 2: also kind of angry at the government. And people were 183 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 2: already angry at the government, So it's kind of this 184 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 2: perfect storm of issues. An interesting point that I'll raise 185 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 2: that came up in my research of this topic was 186 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: from researchers at the University of Melbourne who have suggested 187 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: that while the protests are very much real and organic, 188 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 2: some of the violence that's resulted was manufactured. That's their 189 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: suggestion by wealthy Indonesians loyal to the former president, Joko Widodo, 190 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 2: who are trying to undermine the new president who was 191 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 2: elected last year, Proboo Subianto. So that's their allegation. 192 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: Right, So on top of all of this, there is 193 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: this alleged conspiracy, a political conspiracy essentially. How has the 194 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: new president responded to these protests. 195 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 2: He canceled a planned trip to China. He was going 196 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: to go to this military parade in China marking the 197 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 2: end of World War Two. He's also met with the 198 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 2: family of the delivery driver who police killed, and he's 199 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: called for a full investigation into the incident. And the 200 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: latest update is that on Monday he said he would 201 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: scrap the housing allowance that sparked all of this. 202 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: Oh wow, yes, so that's gone. 203 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: That's gone now. The protests have also cooled off. But 204 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: as we know, this is such a complex issue, something 205 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: else could trigger more action. We're just going to have 206 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: to keep tabs on it. 207 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose it's one thing for the housing allowance 208 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: to be resolved in a sense, but clearly there is 209 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: unrest and disappointment amongst Indonesians about how a lot of 210 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: aspects to day to day governing are being handled. Yeah, totally, Lucy, 211 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for explaining that to us. A 212 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: very complicated one, but we appreciate you taking us through it. 213 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: Thanks Emma, and thank you for listening to today's episode. 214 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: We'll be back a little later on with your evening 215 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: news headlines, but until then, have a great day. 216 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda 217 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 2: Banjelung Kalkudin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 218 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 219 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest 220 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 2: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the 221 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.